JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum 2008 American Idol SongWriter

over on AI SongWriter Board
I thought this thread was interesting

I never heard so many awful songs in all my life.
Lets be honest, people!
Post a song here for an honest critique of your song
http://www.americanidol.com/myidol/forums/topic/?tid=876444

Ande (et al.), do you know when they're supposed to publish the names of the Top Twenty? I have to check to make sure I'm not among them.

Joe

It's actually a pretty funny thread...They're calling the OP "Cyber-Simon" as a nickname because he's brutally "honest". No one escape criticism...

No credentials given, but I think it's all in good fun.

Here I am in Maryland but actually I may only be visiting here and I may be a resident of North Carolina depending on AI's Top 20. The Maryland Attorney General says it's an old Sweepstake's law that says you can't pay a fee to enter a Sweepstakes where you win a lot of money. I told them that there is no money to win in this situation only the royalties that the song would earn on its own merit. The problem is that the Government has no clue what a Songwriter has to do to get noticed by the Music Business. They think that Songwriters are those folks in LA, Nashville and New York who they see at the awards shows. Anyway I've enjoyed listening to a lot of your songs. I was around here last year. Hopefully one of you guys will be in the Top 20. I wrote and entered a song called "It Was You" That I wish I could have had a female lead vocalist but I did it myself. Of course I was born in Washington DC. Maybe a birth certificate would work Hmmm?

Oh yeah my song is at www.myspace.com/philpieraldi

Post deleted by TAMERA64

started this thread
http://www.americanidol.com/myidol/forums/topic/?tid=878698

That's a good idea Tammy,I actually used to live there for about eight years. They don't like the Lottery but they have nothing against Sweepstakes.

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Hey Tammy,
My guess is that they'll start calling on Monday. Hope you're doing well! I see that you've been very productive as a songwriter lately! Awesome! Loved what you and Ande did together.

Heidi

For The AI contest Someone lent me $10 bucks to submit one song.

All I can say is this.. with complete certainty
I know I won't make no top twenty, NO WAY.

However also with complete certainty, I send my deepest sympathy and apology...
To whoevers song that gets played & judged right after mine LOL

thank you heidi

ande

Hey Ande,
I think that your dedication to songwriting is worthy of high praise. Your work ethic, as witnessed on your songwriting blog, sets a stellar example.

Best of luck.

Heidi

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Hello Heidi,

Thanks so much for the compliment...you certainly know how to make a young newbie feel shy and flattered at the same time...LOL

Good luck with your submission!

-Karen

Hi Tammy,

What a beautiful song
You sound absolutely incredible

Ande

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Nice string arrangement, Tammy. Your voice sounds great, too.

If Idol can't use it, I can hear it as a soundtrack song easily.

Post deleted by TAMERA64

I just found this thread from Ande's IFS newsletter. I also submitted a song, "Fly", which I wrote expressly for the contest within the week or two before the deadline (mostly the last 5 days). I'll post the lyrics below, and you can hear it at either:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6417163

or:

http://www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic

Here are the lyrics:

Fly
words and music by Rick Paul

Verse 1:

It's been a long uphill climb
And I've fallen down at times
But here I stand, looking back on where I've been
Each lesson learned along the way
Made me who I am today
And I'll never be the same again

Chorus:

I'll fly
On the wings you gave me
Soar above all that laid me low
And I want you to know
I'll sail toward the stars on your love
If there's one thing I'm sure of
With you beside me I'll reach for the sky
And fly

Verse 2:

I've so very far to go
Where it leads me who can know
But I bet it'll be quite a ride
Through the sunshine, through the rain
Through the passion and the pain
You will always be here on my mind

(repeat Chorus)

Bridge:

I was drifting before I found you
You shone a light, showed the way
You pulled me through

(repeat Chorus)

© 2008 Rick Paul (ASCAP)
All Rights Reserved

Rick Paul... where the heck have YOU been hiding the last few years? = )

Brian

Still get chills hearing your song Tammy. Picturing the singer with a very black screen with a million stars radiating/pulsating as she/he sings this. I love the addition of strings. You did something alittle different in the part in your Chorus where the words say "but deep in my heart, I believe". In the old version there was more of up/down melody there on just those particular words and quite honestly I missed hearing that. It's still wonderful but I did notice that difference.

Best,
Lynn

[quote=Brian Austin Whitney]Rick Paul... where the heck have YOU been hiding the last few years? = )

Hi Brian, it's hard to hide someone my size.

I've been around, performing a lot more than in the past. Put out a few initial releases (2 singles, 1 EP) through iTunes and the like. Still on-line a whole lot (probably way too much), but I've never successfully managed to deal with keeping up with webboards (wouldn't have noticed this post if it hadn't been for Ande's newsletter) -- call me a dinosaur, but I still can only handle newsgroups and mailing lists, and I'm a regular on a few of those. I'm also a regular in our local JPF chapter, which has been pretty active.

I've missed the annual Rusty's thing the last few years -- would have made it a point to be there as I've always enjoyed those. Hopefully we can catch up next time you do a SoCal roadtrip. It definitely has been awhile.

Nice song and an incredible voice. A little Disneyesque but really nice. I could see it being picked.

Nice work,

Brian

http://songwriter.americanidol.com
says voting starts Thur 04/10/2008

so my guess is finalists are choosen and
starting to get notified,
they are probably being sent overnight packages to sign and return.

Ande

Hopefully Tammy is there to answer her Tennessee phone number or get her Tennessee mail in case they try! = )

Interesting how fast this moves along.
They probably got 25,000 entries maybe more and most probably went in in the last few days and they have already selected the final 20? Is that how it works?
Wow, must be a ton of screeners.
I wonder how many seconds of the songs get heard?

Pretty amazing that they can do it so quickly.

Post deleted by TAMERA64

It really wouldn't take that many screeners believe it or not. 2/3rds could be eliminated almost instantly.. the last third could be narrowed down in a couple days and they probably started screening the entries day one as they came in. You'd be amazed at how fast you can efficiently screen music when you know going in where the bar is set quality wise.

Brian

Rick, you sound like Dan Hill, nice song by the way.

I bet they didn't wait for the deadline and all the songs to be submitted, I'm sure they started evaluating songs as soon as they were entered

I forget how they announced the top 20 last year...do you think they'll mention it this Thursday?

By the way, I found the link to LAST YEAR's top 20 songs. I hadn't really listened to them...they are all near-master-quality recordings. Live and learn...

http://www.americanidol.com/songwriter/all-contestants.xhtml

That's the reality of submitting songs anywhere now. You can't get away with a low quality demo no matter how amazing the song is, I don't care what people tell you. Sure, if you're an established writer with connections, those connections may be willing to deal with simple low end demos, but for the average writer/artists submitting, the competition is consistently pro master quality all the time, even in amateur contests. I've been saying this to folks for years but people seem to believe the myth instead. Of the 300-400K songs we get this year, I bet the top 3rd (maybe even the top half) are all pro-level master quality.

Brian

Brian, C'est La Vie.
Larry, reading over the profiles and looking at the pictures of the finalist, it looks like most of them are under 30. Does it take youth to write a song for the young? It might.

Yep, i have mentioned the same thing on a few topics on these boards...you have to speculate to accumulate...top quality demo's are the order of the day..no matter what genre...and unfortunately, you have to put your hand in your pocket..but that is the state of play nowadays...it certainly ain't a hobby when you are shelling out your hard earned!.....Terry..

Well.. if someone is a hobbyist, they should expect to favorably compete with professionals. Just as hobby basketball players shouldn't expect to get a spot on an NBA team. There are more pro football players than major label artists. Most folks don't expect a 90 pound weakling who is out of shape to make a pro football team. Why would the musical equivelent make it in pro music?

Brian

I think the problem is that American Idol is dishonest about what we all know is true, that only a "pro level master quality" recording stands a chance to be considered. Here is what they SAY about the quality of recording they will consider:

[[We’re not listening to the quality of the recording, just the quality of the song. Recording a basic vocal and instrument performance at home on your computer is good enough for us...]]

.. and later
[[Remember, we’re not judging your performance, just the song. Perhaps you know a friend who is more confident in front of a microphone and can help you out. If not, don’t worry, as a great song will always shine through.]]

Last year, two song got through with simple productions, one was deceptively simple (Someday); but it was recorded by a master of the mixer; and the other song, (One night) was in fact a simple piano/vocal but the execution was professional. The winning song (This is my now) was as processed as sausage. So anyone who read the rules last year and then heard the actual songs selected would have to understand that they wouldn't stand a chance this year if they submitting another rough demo.

I actually believe this is possible -- with a very big IF!! When I listen to some of my home made recordings, I truly believe that I have "enough" recording quality to impress anyone -- IF THE SONG WAS REALLY GREAT AND I COULD SING WELL!!!! There's the rub -- true talent will shine through on good home recordings, but those of us who really don't have enough vocal talent are never going to make a big enough impression for a judge/screener to hang with the song more than 30 seconds.

Kevin

Which goes back to what so many of us have been saying: one of the easiest ways to even up the playing field -- at least at voting time -- would be to have the AI band/back-up singers perform them all, so the public is voting on the quality of the songs not the production. But that would cost AI time and money....and if people are willing to spend their OWN money for a great submission, I can see why they wouldn't.

Still, I think that would generate a HUGE amount of goodwill...

Anyway, in case you didn't see this over on General, I found this post on the Spinme.com site a little while ago:

BTW - I received an email earlier in the week from one of the Top 20 from last year who basically confirmed that the "calls" went out about 5 days before the songs were posted on Idol's website last year. They had to sign an additional royalty and usage agreement (which 19Entertainment eventually released 19 of them from once the contest was over).

Whether it's legitimate or not is anybody's guess...but at the least, it's some more fodder for intrigue!! If we all play again next year, we should make a concerted effort to find out just how early the calls started going out...so people aren't sitting by their phones all day! ("Luckily", with broken foot in cast, at least I have a "legitimate" excuse for doing so! hahaha!)

Can't wait to hear the finalists!

Ciao for now,
Beth

My opinion is that if the vocal and melody are intelligible, that is all that is required. EJ's "Tiny Dancer" could have been recorded on a RadioShack cassette and it still would be a hit. It's about melody and vocal period. Something I need exercise myself. they call it a "Hit" for a reason.

Beth, I agree with you! That would make it fair if all the songs were presented equally. It sure will be interesting to see who they have chosen.

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards2

true, Mr Darnell to a tiny extent...but too many variables would need to all fall into place at once..the first one being the screener likes the rough demo...but the old saying springs to mind here..
"they would say that wouldn't they"..when telling entrants that a basic demo done on a PC would suffice...if they told the truth, that in fact they prefer a top notch recording...which really is the case...think of all the 10 bucks they would not recieve...just my 2c........Terry...

saw this today

Topic: I want my money back!
Posted: Tue, Apr 08 2008, 6:00 PM

At least 10 different songwriters for the 2007 Songwriters contest have had prior working relationships with either American Idol Judge’s Randy Jackson, Paula Abdul, American Idol bandleader BLEEP Minor, American Idol Host Ryan Seacrest, former American Idol finalist or Fox Television.

One Songwriting Finalist Colin Armstrong, according to his American Idol bio, won the "BE A STAR" contest on L.A. radio station STAR 98.7 FM.
Sadly, the bio doesn’t mention that Ryan Seacrest was the radio DJ, and that 2 of Colin’s Armstrong’s co-writers Mikal Reid and Marti Frederiksen are credited on Bo Bice’s 2005 CD and Clay Aiken’s 2006 CD.

(Side note, Marti Frederiksen and Clive Davis are producer’s on Clay’s CD).

Songwriting Finalist Jennifer Hamady spent 2 episodes as a backup singer on the 2007 season of American Idol.

Songwriting Finalist Kelly Corsino has her own music production company "Framistan" and one of her clients is Fox Television.

Songwriting Finalist Cal Harris Jr. was an engineer on Paula Abdul’s "Head Over Heels" CD.

Songwriting Finalist Sam Sims was the bass player on Paula Abdul’s "Under My Spell" tour.

Songwriting Finalist CJ Vanston played keyboards while Randy Jackson played Bass on Richard Marx’s "Repeat Offender" and "Days In Avolon" CD’s.

Songwriting Finalist Shedrick Mitchell gets the credit of playing the organ while American Idol Bandleader BLEEP Minor played the bass on "Queen Latifah’s Dana Owens" CD.

I still haven’t mentioned the winning song yet. And remember that that the songwriting contest, according to the shows producer Simon Fuller, was meant for amateur songwriters.

Ok, lets examine American Idol Songwriting Contest Champ Scott Krippayne’s true bio.
At Walmart.com, you can buy Scott’s 2005 "Gentle Revolution" CD for the low price of only $12.88. I’ve been to Walmart and looked, there isn’t an amateur CD section, but there is a Scott Krippayne section.

So much for searching for a great undiscovered songwriting talent.

And if you visit the U.S. copyright website, a quick search shows Scott Krippayne has written songs for several christian artist like Jaci Velasquez, Rebecca Saint James, Kathy Troccoli, Point of Grace and more.

And if you check out Scott’s Purplehonda myspace page, Scott says he has written 14 number 1 hits and 20 top 10 hits for artist like John Tesh, Ronan Tynan, Saddi Patty and more.

F.Y.I. Scott Krippayne also wrote the title track "Wonderful Crazy" for American Idol Juniors finalist Katelyn Tarver’s 2005 debut CD.

So much for having an untapped songwriter. He seems fairly tapped to me.

Scott Krippayne has written with Andy Marvel.
Ok, we know what your thinking, who’s Andy Marvel?
Well Andy Marvel is one of the songwriter’s on Jordin Sparks 2003 "For Now" Demo CD.

And then there’s Matthew Ward.
Both Matthew Ward and Scott Krippayne get credit for solo’s on "The Heart of a Martyr" Celtic Cry CD.
Matthew Ward produced American Idol winner Jordin Sparks 2003 "For Now" demo CD.
Scott also has written with Jorge Corante.
Jorge was the producer on Paula Abdul’s "SpellBound" CD.

Here’s a little something to take home and ponder...............

What are the odds that 2007’s American Idol winner Jordin Sparks and 2007’s American Idol 3rd place Finalist Melinda Doolittle would both be singing with American Idol season 3 Finalist George Huff before American Idol season 6 even began?
Just so you know...Ryan Seacrest announced on American Idol’s final show that over a 100,000 people tried out for the 2007 season.

Math was never our subject, but 100,000 to 1 seems close.

Here’s a quote from Shoutlife.com.
Christian artist Michael W. Smith’s manager Chaz Corzine says
"Three years ago I met and became friends with a young girl that possessed about as much talent as I had ever seen in one person.
Her name is Jordin Sparks and when I first met her - she was 14 years old.

Shortly after I met Jordin she, her mother and her grandmother visited Nashville. I had the opportunity to take them to Michael’s house where Jordin and Michael’s girls hit it off like they had been best friends all their life!
Another unique thing about that visit was that former American Idol contestant, George Huff, was at Smitty’s house.
As you might imagine - it wasn’t long before the three of them (Michael, George and Jordin) wound up around the piano.
That is a night I will never forget. Well, it wasn’t long before Jordin was on the road with us singing background vocal’s for Smitty’s 2005 Christmas tour.
She was a hit - both on stage and off stage. That was the first of two tours Jordin would do with Michael. She also joined him on his 2006 Christmastime Tour."

So where does American Idol 3rd place finalist Melinda Doolittle fit in all of this? She’s a backup singer on George Huff’s 2004 "My Christmas" CD.

So why is this important? Because American Idol's doing it again.

It Needs To Be Exposed!
from: http://www.americanidol.com/myidol/forums/topic/?tid=883810

So now I am thinking perhaps nobody is listening to the web submissions. Why would they if they already have their songs picked out? This sounds like a scam and a mean one at that.

This is how I felt last year when I found out you guys... it's all true. All the info Ande has posted. I thought I would try one more time to see if things would turn out any differently. I am waiting anxiously as they post the songs to see how it all falls. This will truly determine if I ever do this one again. I wish it was an amatuer contest. But they may list it as such, maybe not. Eithor way, pro's have been picked with MAJOR hits such as Scott Krippayne whom has written for the JR Idol long before his song was picked for last years A.I. winner. It certainly was not just a coincidence. Lets see how this pans out. Then we can hash it all out. This ought to be a fun one for us!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards2

They picked a couple JPF members last year.. so it wasn't entirely a scam. I bet someone gets in again this year as well.

Brian

I would never have expected a completely level playing field. In this business there is always an element of "who you know" and certainly "what you've done" that gives you an edge.

Quite frankly, if a rank amateur writing their first song would ever get into the top 20, I would be more shocked than hearing about some of the industry connections above.

Well it does happen. Read a bio on John Prine. His first time up on stage in a venue that expected to laugh at him, he stunned the audience and the other performers into silence. The same thing happened with Paul Hogan who played Crocodile Dungee. He went on an Austrialian talent show that made fun of the "guest" kind of like the Gong Show. He used is wit to turn the tables on the "judges" and made fools of them on National television. The audience loved it and his spot on the show turned him into a movie Star. There are lots of examples of really talented people getting discovered accidently. Rosanne Barr was a housewife with an attitude who leveraged it into a career. This years American Idol contestant, Jason, comes from a family of Opera singers. He barely made a sound until two years ago and had only been in front of an audience 5 times before he was "persuaded" to go on American Idol. Some rank amature is hiding out there with talent that will someday stun the critics into silence. And Brian, I think you are totally wrong about Kristi. She is green and goes off pitch once in a while but she has an amazing tone to her voice and she can "feel" a song. I will still put her in the top three just like I have been saying since the first week we posted comments on the top 24.

Interesting thing about David A. He has been an amazing singer since he was 5 but he caught a virus and one of his vocal chords was completely paralized. He did not completely recover from it. I think that is why his voice is kind of breathy and high. It isn't his fault. He is coping with a disability.