JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum JPF Fundraising: Need $ For Own Server and Lots of New Abilities

I'm glad to donate - I don't have a lot, but if I had more I'd give it. JPF is well worth subscribing to. I wouldn't mind annual dues either.

The problem is newbies won't automatically know how valuable this place is until they've been here a while. I favor keeping the boards free.

Let us know where & how to send $$ - we can do this!

Linda

Yep, gotta agree Linda, you need to be here awhile to appreciate the depth of knowlege, and also the fun that can be had.

Who in their right mind, as a newbie, is going to sign up for a paid subscription fot something they know nothing about.

I much prefer the free, and donate if you wish model, it doesn't exclude anyone, and is not alienating to those who are new to the site.

So.......Brian, does JPF have a dedicated Paypal account....how about just providing the email for it and see how it goes.

You got my 50 bucks, and if only 100 people do the same or similar, problem solved.

cheers, niteshift

Brian,

I'd be more than happy to make a money donation...for the cause.
Similarly,I'll offer to host a JPF fundraiser/Open-Microphone,in my area.

Your dedication is imeasurable...keep up the great work!

Hi Brian!! So much to think about - I have a question about ads, and since I don't know much about this, I could be way off base, but could you have an ad's "page" where you encourage the readers to visit and support the people who are advertising , rather than "blasting" ads that clutter up a site? Would that fly with advertisers? I know I would visit it - I really like the ads because they are good resources, but not flashing at me while I'm trying to read someone's post. Just a thought.

I also like the contribute a dollar to download the JPFolks theme song for a good cause idea.

We're with ya, and thanks for all that you do to provide such a great site here, Brian!!


Cher

Why not let newbies have a month free trial then they pay a subscription only if they feel they want to continue. I do not see a prob with subs for the rest of us.

Brian
Come to Chicago and lets have a fundraiser at Fitzgeralds ! ! AT LEAST 50 peeps would be willing to pony up $5...$250 towards it at least. It's almost been a year already since you were here.

I would definitely donate. All you need is a mechanism on the site. "Click here to donate."

There's been a paypal donation link on the site for 5 years. It's in our store. Here's a link. The Paypal link is at the top center. Or you can buy stuff.

http://www.jpfolks.com/JPFStore/index.html

Brian

As much as I love this site, if it were to charge a membership fee to access the boards, I would pass and reluctantly go elsewhere. I say that not just to demonstrate what a cheapskate I am, but also as a reminder that many others would do the same...most of whom would be too embarrassed to admit what I just said. They would slip away quietly.

Ya know how those United Way Charts always show how close they are to their goal? If you could put up a chart or something and show the donations coming in...Brian. That would be neat. At one time, I wouldn't have thought this...but I'm almost sure...you'd reach your goal through donations...if you let folks know via the newsletter...and as you're doing on the board. Folks that use these boards are generous and caring. That's just 200 folks..giving $25.00 or..100 folks giving $50. JPF has a special place in my heart...because I literally stumbled in one day with some poems. It's where I started writing. Though I can't spend as much time here as I once did....It's neat knowing that when I click on the JPF link..that it is here!.......Thank you for what you do.

best......
Kaley

Melodies and Demos:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=8404&content=music
Children Songs:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=6469&content=music
Wyman and Kaley's Andy & Friends CD
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kwwg

Mark,
Right, maybe... but keep in mind that the basic FREE membership (to participate on the boards at JPF) will always be free, so it's really a "mute" point. In other words, everyone can continue visiting, posting and networking just as we've always been doing, so no reason for any of us to ever have to leave JPF.

If Brian decides to offer some extra services on a "pay-as-you-go" basis, it won't force everyone to pay for those, only the folks that will sign up for those "value added" services. That might be 1 out of 20 or whatever, but that doesn't effect the basic FREE membership that everyone here already enjoys.

I suppose a good "suggested" donation might be to purchase an occasional T-shirt, cap or maybe donate a cash "tip" from time to time. It all adds up and every little bit helps.

Meanwhile, there's really no better place to learn about music and network than here at JPF.

Cheers,
Michael

We've always had a donation link for anyone who wants to support the site. The link is above, here it is again: http://www.jpfolks.com/JPFStore/index.html

We also sell hats and t-shirts with a few dollar markup so those who want to support us and get something addition (beyond what we offer) in return, you can get that. We sell 95% of the T-Shirts and Hats on roadtrip tours and those sales and donations at the events have covered the costs each time. We've also appealed for donations here to upgrade the boards and software and covered those costs. People who respect and value what we do have helped keep it going along with our sponsors. Though it's always disappointing to hear from people like Mark who don't really value us at all but still come here a lot (kind of mind boggling if you think about it), I will give him credit for at least being honest about it. And he's right, most people, not because they are cheap as Mark suggests, wouldn't pay simply because it requires some tangible effort on their part and THAT is the barrier I've always known would make a membership fee impractical. (In fact, I've gotten hammered for a decade by my more successful counterparts in the industry (Michael Laskow, Derek Sivers etc.) for not charging. But I've seen first hand the devastating effects of those who went from being free to trying to charge a fee. We saw it completely destroy the heavily funded Tonos.com (the numbers I heard they wasted on that were mind boggling.. one report going around was over 17 million dollars.. ack!). Indie-Music.com also tried to go from free to a pay model and it caused Suzanne to have to go back to the drawing board and start nearly from scratch (thankfully she's been able to pull it all back together once again as a free resource). The truth is that people are first and foremost lazy (myself included) when it comes to paying for stuff. I'd have the same number of members, in the end, if we charged 1 penny for a lifetime membership as if we charged them 30 bucks for a year. It's the effort that is the barrier for most. Even regulars here who spend hours a day on this site would never make the effort to donate let alone pay a membership fee and all the stuff that would surround that. I personally don't even like to be forced to register on free sites. That alone is a big barrier that keeps 75% of our members from coming to the message boards. (We've asked.. this is what people tell us.. ).

So, as is true in all things in life (politics, community, church, family matters) a small number of people do all the work and bear all the responsibility for the masses. It's a reality that we're not going to prove wrong or fix. It's human nature at its worst, but it's human nature nonetheless.

Fortunately we've long found other ways to get people involved and in truth, involvement itself has a value. In the case of Mark, he may be a cheapskate who doesn't value us at all (as he clearly states above) he does bring value in some ways by being involved and hopefully making it a more positive experience for those who are more inclined themselves to support us. So we look for the good and hope at some point that the cumulative effect makes it all work. So far it has.

It's ironic, in some ways, that this laziness and "what's in it for me" mentality is exactly why musicians and songwriters have long gotten screwed by those who control things. Imagine if you were running a small publisher or label and you had to deal with a bunch of selfish people day in and out who never gave back and were only in it for themselves. Then one day your hard work pays off enough to put you in a position to help an artist or writer. Who are you going to help? The ones who ignored you when you needed their help? Or the small number of actual friends who were there for you. Of course you help your friends. And that creates the power that insiders have. It's not that they are evil. Just the opposite. They simply reward those who were not evil to them (or apathetic.. or unsupportive). They reward the others who have paid their dues, not those who simply have their hand out without going through all the ups and downs they had to go through. Next time you think the industry is an insiders game, think about why that is. Then, think about what it takes to become an insider. In most cases, what it takes is to be supportive and value people who deserve to be valued and know that when they move up (and the good ones often do) you'll get that benefit of the doubt when it matters most. And even if that person doesn't move up into a powerful position, you will have helped the good guys do the right thing. Or, you can sit around and blame others for your lack of success and complain that it's an insiders game and support nothing. We certainly know there's a lot of people doing that. Some of them even hang around here.

Brian

Brian,
I think the main challenge is that almost all blogs and networking sites on the internet are now providing FREE basic services. They have to just to compete and attract greater numbers of users. I think the key for all these sites, including JPF, is to offer some appropriate value-added services that are difficult for artists to get on their own (i.e. too expensive) or otherwise need some help to carefully select.

This is the perfect place to reach and educate artists about their various service options and then give them a limited number of high-quality selections at prices they can't refuse.

Service providers could offer a reasonable discount to JPF members along with paying JPF a monthly sponsorship fee and/or a percentage of JPF generated sales. The service providers will gain from increased exposure, customer growth and a network of great referrals. I think a plan like this could go beyond basic fundraising and be developed into something very sustainable with long-term growth potential.

Such managed approach would help support all the needs here including: servers costs, road trips and any new JPF services that may later come along.

Michael

-

Thanks for the info Dino. Very informative. We're unique in that we already have someone hosting our site and who will also administer our server should we get one. Ryan at Hostbaby requested we consider getting our own server since we dominate the 120 other sites on our current server and because when we max out, it brings everyone else down too. Ironically, after this discussion started, our site traffic is the lowest it's been in a year for some reason this month, so we haven't had more problems, but at the end of last month, our traffic overwhelmed things.

Because we already have someone willing to act as administrator (it's part of what they do to support JPF) we're not renting server space from them and thus we'd have to buy our own server to be on our own server. So our cost is the server and that's it, avoiding the monthly fees. As it is set now, we're also limited on drive space as well. We're always squeezed in pretty tight right now. Having larger drives to our selves would allow for all sorts of things. But this post indicates the most frequent site users don't really seem to care about us hosting stuff, so if that is the case, perhaps we don't need to make a change at all.

Again, thanks for the info, very good for anyone considering this stuff.

Brian

I see, that is a unique situation and worth a fair bit of $ having Ryan/Hostbaby
donate the time to admin the server, provide a home for it and also
the use of his bandwidth resources. Definitely a great offer worth taking up
if you need to.

I was a bit curios myself about what the rates where for buying hardware outright these days, so I looked around
webhostingtalk.com to see where the more knowledgeable people are buying
their servers and components.

Here's two places:
Apaqdigital.com
Newegg.com

The first link has servers starting at $495 and go up from there.
These are 2 sources I hadn't seen before and much cheaper then
I've seen anywhere else.

I'm not sure if you've already discussed this, but have you guys considered for the interim upgrading
the server JPF and the 120 other sites are on? You may be able to fit a lot more the Ram if the
motherboard can handle more.

Ya strange about the low traffic issue this month but you can bet it's probably not going to
stay this way and the problem will return.

Also if you don't mind me asking, how much monthly bandwidth does JFP use and what is the processor
speed of the server? (if you know)

Thanks

We're not sure what numbers to trust. Our internal server numbers are 10 times higher than the google analytics numbers we're getting. We get nearly 4 times the traffic of 2 other well known sites combined which rank way higher than we do on the bogus measurement site Alexa (we're way way way down the list from them both.. and I have seen their actual numbers.. it's bizarre). So who knows what our numbers really are. They all promote their websites a lot, whereas we don't make any effort at all. So their efforts are obivously giving the impression they get a lot more traffic than they do. I find it hard to believe the google numbers are off by 90% of the Hostbaby internal server numbers are 10 times too high. So I can't answer you.

As for upgrading, they are in the process of upgrading their servers actually.. but it won't happen on our particular one until next year. Since we're not paying, it's hard to expect to not be at the end of the list. It's clear at least in the short term that we're not going to need to upgrade because our own members aren't all that interested in it from the feedback I've gotten on this post.

Thanks again for the info,

Brian

Right, no sense putting time and money into it if it's not needed.


About your bandwidth logging discrepancy issue:

*Usually* the server logs are the most reliable. If you're on a Linux server running apache (which is probably the most popular setup), then there is the apache access logs which tell you every file that is accessed (including specific web pages) and includes the following with the file name and location: the exact time stamp, the IP address of the client accessing the file and the total bytes downloaded from that one connection. I'm sure windows systems and other OS's must have something similar.

A quick chat with a friend more who knows more then me about this stuff suggests that Google analytics only tracks what it's JavaScript embed code has access to and there may be things like directly linked images or any other type of binary files going untracked that are eating up resources. For example if there was a link made public like JPFdomain.com/large-mp3-file-name.mp3 . People could just click this link to download a large (or small) mp3 file and bypass google's tracking but your internal server logs would pick this up.

Binary files are 'non textual' files that if you open with a text editor like Notepad
you'll see a bunch of funny characters. Examples are mp3s, pdf files, word docs, excel sheets, mpeg movies etc.

I think (not 100% sure though) that google analytics can track all these types of files but it has to be specially configured to do so and won't track this stuff with an 'out of the box' setup.

This stuff may or may not have something to do with where all the missing bandwidth is
going *if* the internal sever logs are reporting correctly.

It may also be a combination of things going here.

It's interesting though that JPF is using more resources then those other sites combined who actively promote themselves. But it may be the case JPF is using more resources. It's one more clue though something is off.

I've never really trusted Alexa. I'm not sure how they get their numbers but would need access to internal server information to get accurate numbers. I think they come up with estimates based on search engine data, but I'm just guessing.


If it's important to you though, probably the best place to start is by looking at the internal server logs to see if there are any 'leaks' or some unforeseen thing consuming resources.

Brian, sorry I did not see your post sooner.

Well, you're right--I have no business posting on this site as much as I do. I don't pay a dime, yet I am allowed to participate in so many interactions that have been of benefit to me personally. I went out on that limb to make a point that you would have an opportunity to hear, a point I figured no one else would dare to mention. I took the chance of being perceived as a jerk to ensure that someone would talk about the number of people who would leave in favor of a site that does not charge. I thought that would hurt you more than the message itself.

Value and money are not always linked. Currently my own finances are trending downward...there is less money for groceries, I am leaning heavily on credit, and life is getting worse financially, not better. As a result, the things I really love and enjoy need to take a backseat to the needs of my children and family. What I value is not always what my entire "team" values, meaning the others in my family who depend on my ever-shrinking money pool.

Others out there are in the same boat, so it seemed a little more honorable to speak up than to remain silent.

That said, I want to thank you for what you've done for everyone. I hope you will find that I did spend a lot of time and effort helping others with the help of your forum. But I feel awfully ugly and self-serving now, knowing how you feel. I'll take the hint. Just know that what people have to offer is not always measured in monetary contributions, that I valued this board a great deal, and that my form of repayment was in participating as much as I could in the give and take of critiques, knowledge, opinions...whatever I could offer in that way.

You have a wonderful site, and you've done a wonderful service. Thank you for doing what you do.

-Mark

Mark,

I wasn't asking you to leave. The way you presented your point wasn't "hey.. I like the site and enjoy and benefit from it, but I don't have money to pay a fee and if one was charged, I'd have to go elsewhere." That's a significantly different statement than what you made.

Just as you were being candid, so was I. I'd much rather you stay, and your advice above is a perfect example of why. So I'll not take your comments personally (i.e. as an attack on the value of "me" but rather as an indication of your priorities which obvious would fall far behind family and food as it should). Can we agree with that premise and move on in a positive way. You leaving would just be stupid.

I've been quite vocal that I would not charge a member fee because I totally understand the unlikely scenario that even a fraction of our 43,500 members would pay any fee of any kind. I say that because I understand our community and the realities out there better than I think anyone else. Derek Sivers of CD Baby, Michael Laskow of TAXI, Tony Van Veen of Disc Makers, Brendon Cassidy of Wilshire Media and many others have urged me time and again to charge a membership fee and I've gone around until I am blue in the face that not only would folks not pay, but then most who didn't would feel guilty about participating in what we do (message boards, Roadtrips, Music Awards etc.) and that would be the end of JPF. So we partner with folks who make their livings off the community while not taking money out of artists pockets ourselves. It's a reality I am comfortable with and understand. There's a difference between someone saying that can't afford to pay and implying they really don't value it at all.

So relax and continue participating.

Brian

I'm a newbie here but i've already learnt a lot from the site and i would like to support you.

As a frequent user of freeware and open source software, i have often donated money to freeware softwares which have been useful to me.

In the same spirit, i have just donated $50 via the PayPal link on the home page, as my small contribution towards a new server or whatever else JPF needs it for

Nat,

Thanks a lot for the donation! We got 2 $50 dollar donations today (The other from Perry Smith) and a $25 dollar donation from Shandy Lawson a few days ago which is the 3 first donations of 2008! That's $125 bucks that we are going to put towards a very much needed new Laptop for me to use on Roadtrips and here in the office. We want to be able to do Video and some music productions stuff and folks are telling me to get a Macbook Pro. I am wondering if anyone knows if there's a new model/version of that coming out in the near future, as the last update to it was about a year ago.

We're still on hold with the Server and will re-address it if we max out and have troubles again. In the meantime, the music awards process is coming to the forefront and the laptop, if we can raise the money, will be a key tool for it.

Brian

Brian you say we can make donations and buy merchandise etc. Can you provide info on what is available how we order it or make a donation. Searched but cannot find any info.
Thanks

There's been a paypal donation link on the site for 5 years. It's in our store. Here's a link. The Paypal link is at the top center. Or you can buy stuff.

http://www.jpfolks.com/JPFStore/index.html

Keep in mind that we'd have to charge extra for shipping to the UK. I think we may have a couple XXXL shirts left and hats are one size fits all, including my big head. Or you can make a donation via the PayPal Link at the top.

Brian

Brian, I overreacted. No worries. -mk

I think purchasing the shirts & Hats are a great option...at present giving times..throughout the year!!

Birthdays
Holidays
Mother's Day
Father's Day
An Anytime Gift for your favorite Songwriter or Musician!!

They REALLY are conversation starters!!... I don't think there's been a time where I've worn a JPF shirt...when someone hasn't asked me about it.. Ya know...you can even sell some CD's that way... ...TIS TRUE!!!

My kids love the shirts...My son took his to college...and wore
it during High school... Kids ask him about it!! It DRAWS attention wherever it's worn......

My daughter just ordered another as a night shirt... She wanted
one of the long sleeve ones... Anyways.., they hold up well through MANY washings....

and they DO attract attention..........(for a good cause )...

JPF Front Page where STORE/DONATION link is
http://www.jpfolks.com/home.html

best to everyone....
Kaley

Melodies and Demos:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=8404&content=music
Children Songs:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=6469&content=music
Wyman and Kaley's Andy & Friends CD
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kwwg

Well... even the best laid plans. I was planning to get a much needed laptop as my old one gave up the ghost a while back. So this afternoon as I was working on the new newsletter my main and only CPU crashed and I had to force reboot only to get a "please insert book disk" message. Yup. It's toast. Best Buy tells me that the Raid set up is toast (i.e. both drives, including the back up to my files) because windows got corrupted and there's no way to fix it other than reinstalling it which will erase all my files. He told me the cost of retrieving the files because of the set up would be pretty high. So now I need to decide if I can simply wave bye to all my files (I have another redundant back up from a few months ago.. but not for all my email files which are in the 10's of thousands on the AOL program files). I am using Linda's old laptop now to log in.. but now I am faced with probably just buying 2 new computers.. a desk top to run all the JPF stuff and a laptop to help with the music awards screening and for roadtrips and video production. Ack. = ) Thanks to those who have donated.. the current total is 234 dollars. I realized all my passwords and cookie were on the other computer as well so I am having trouble logging into all the sites which I have long forgotten what the logins were. You really realize how much you use computers when you have it taken away instantly and without warning.

Brian

So I have to also decide whether to keep with Windows or switch to Mac. I have tons of Windows software, though I lost all the installs on the computer that went down so it's going to be a pain in the butt to get those licenses reactivated (and find all the original software).

So lets hear from the peanut gallery.. Mac or Windows.. plusses and minuses.. we need to run our website, do photo stuff, video stuff, music production stuff... and we need affordable options if we switch to mac to deal with the software we already have that we'd need to replace. (and a new mac pro amd macbook pro are EXPENSIVE! even before the software).

Brian

Brian
I want to get a couple T-shirts.
I see the S&H is $5
I would rather give the $10 to JPF rather than UPS so I need to know if you are going to be around tomorrow or Saturday.
I am going to Nashville this weekend and I will stop by your house if you will be there. Pm me with the address or a phone Number.

Hi Bill,

I am not sure if I will be around or not. I'll try to let you know before then.

Brian

If this can wait until May or June, I hear I'm coming into a little $$ from our government. Would donating some of that to JPF help to boost our economy enough to avoid this Recession everyone keeps claiming we're not headed for?

I'll be happy to donate, Brian. I'm thankful for this site and all you've done for us.

I actually thought it would be cool to get a donation from each member who gets that rebate. Even a tiny one from each would add up.. but we know that's not the real world. But perhaps if a small number did, it would help us replace the computers and maybe get a server at some point. That or we need to bring on a couple new sponsors which would do the same thing. We still need to work our Resource list posted on the Mentor board to see if any of those folks want to partner with us.

I will tell you this.. I am going nuts having to use this old laptop which has none of my files or programs on it. I am without my computer until at least the end of next week and that means a week of lost productivity at least.. and in truth probably 2 weeks shot.

Brian

Yikes Brian! Same thing happened to me this morning. Unbelievable.

We must promise, NEVER AGAIN, to have any sort of misunderstanding. Apparently it fries our computers.



-Mark

Wow, Brian, same decision here. For a long while I have been swearing I'd get a Mac next time...but...

My friend who runs a computer shop is convincing me otherwise, at least for my poorboy concerns. He says that despite the great strides Mac has made in the last decade, there are still plenty of compatibility issues...transitioning is certainly possible, but there will be casualties for those who have been using PC for years. Yes the operating system is nice and takes away many of the hassles we are accustomed to ("got drivers?"), but it is also more expensive to purchase...and to repair. Another concern is that as Mac gains market share, it also gains viruses...it is not immune to them, there are simply more viruses targeted at Windows...this is slowly changing from what I hear and likely to become more of a concern over time.

He told me the main problems with PCs are from cheap parts...the Maxtor brand hard drive that just imploded in my Dell was junk, according to him (Seagate is a better bet)...as are many chipsets (I have learned on tech forums that my audio interface, the Presonus Firebox, is wonderful...but ONLY if the firewire card on my computer has a chipset built by Texas Instruments).

We need to be experts in all this to make good choices, I guess. But I will be saving a lot of money by having him build me a desktop unit with "good" parts and using my old monitor, etc.

So I ended up deciding to stay with PC after all. Neither one appears to be either all good or all bad.

Good luck, and you have my sympath---well, actually, my empathies. -mk

What compatibility issues are there? I'm curious. Seeing as how Apple is one of the few, or the only manufacturer that can run any OS.

There is still no known virus for OSX. There have been theoretical things discussed, but still no known viruses. So that's a mute point. Can it change in the future - sure.

Apple has now reached double digit market share. Which is a massive gain in 2 years.

As for cost... I'm curious to know where the current idea comes from where Macs cost more. I mean a part by part comparison. When it's compared that way between PC and Apple, it's now a fact that Apples are either the same price or cheaper. The only reason why they seem to cost more is because Apple has tight control on their hardware, include many things that are considered extra on a PC, and they don't use poor quality parts.

Another thing that has to be factored in is downtime and maintenance. I have several PC tech friends, all of them can back up the fact that Apples/Macs have much less downtime and, unlike Mike's tech buddy, are strongly recommending their clients to switch to Macs. How much is time worth? How much is downtime worth?

Jody, you know more about it than I do, so don't expect me to dig my heels in. The issues I have been made aware of are mostly minor and concerning Microsoft Office docs...they usually work between platforms, but sometimes not...Mac embedded fonts have also raised some issues. But minor issues often drive us un-techie guys up the wall. Here are a few more I was reading about today as I tried to make a quick decision:

http://www.macwindows.com/leopard.html
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043838

But for the most part, yes, Mac is apparently wonderful, so please, relax your curiosity...I do not wish to argue, only to learn--I don't work for Microsoft, honest. Teach us, you've got the expertise.