JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum "The Beatles" Anyone?

Calling this 'heresy' is like attempting to champion Zoroastrianism over Lutheranism.

Besides, neither heresy nor forum hearsay is fist-worthy at this point in my life.

No, I won't compare catalogs or movies, because it speaks to BIGGER rather than BETTER - which I have already agreed to.

As far as BETTER is concerned - it CAN'T be discussed rationally. Nature of the beast.

The fact that it can't be discussed rationally is no reason not to discuss it though - to me, the Band's version of "Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" has more soul and more impact than any song I can think of by the Who.

I gave up long ago the notion though that what impacts me will necessarily impact others the same way. Why should it? I think we love the songs we love because they resonate with our individual experiences - and we're all different.

But it's still fun to argue about it!

Scott

When you get into great groups like this you really shouldn't argue.. They are all so great!
I Love The Band.. I Love The Who..
The Who had a major influence on punk rock also..
which is not one of favorite styles

They are not really good comparisons as they are from two different worlds.. The Who have a much bigger body of work and are usually compared with the big 4.. Beatles-Stones-Who-Zeppelin

Really British and American groups and just styles
are very different. All this makes me realize Rock is Dead! All of the bands today combined dont equal one of the artist below...

The Beatles, Stones,Who,Zeppelin, Queen, Pink Floyd

The Eagles, Band, Doors,Allman Bro,Dylan, Hendrix

Cmon Who is not Great from that batch

Peace
Sub

I thought this thread was about THE BEATLES! LOL p.S I love The Who AND The Band!

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bc

[This message has been edited by bcushing (edited 12-16-2005).]

I took over my father's record collection at an early age. Lot's of records from "The Beatles". They are a big influence in my songwriting as is very evident in my song "Shannon" available for free download
@www.steelyjames.com
I've even got a Beatles record in mint condition from the early Vee Jay Records era.

See? This thread is still about The Beatles! One from another to another. And the band concept of doing their own music and having a style is greatly exampled in all the groups mentioned, which The Beatles did very sucessfully. But yes,,,,now for The Beatles:

Continue please...Fun reading all replies!

What do you do musically or lyrically or playing wise that are influenced in any way by them? Martin too, for the recording end of things.

John

Cowbell!

Oh wait, that's Blue Oyster Cult.

Actually it's harmonies. Not trying to imitate their harmonies of course. Just the idea of thinking more about them and how to incorporate them.

In my opinion, one of the things that separates the Beatles from everyone else is their harmonies!

Scott

P.S. I like the Who too. Sometimes you gotta argue about the number of angels on the head of a pin though


[This message has been edited by scott59 (edited 12-16-2005).]

As for Martin? Genius, really. Technology then? And what he was able to get...Wizard, he was!

....For me it started that February evening, after my family and i finished Sunday dinner at my grandparents house.

We all settled down in the living room to watch the Ed Sullivan show, which we did every week. I was lying down on the floor facing the tv, when all of a sudden Ed Sullivan announced the Beatles..they came on and played and..from there it was simply magic. I remember my parents liking them, especially my father,who liked the way Ringo shook his head back and forth as he played.

That scene will always stay with me...they made a big impression on my life,especially musically,but i do have to admit,im pretty Beatled out at this point...really prefer checking out new singer-songwriters/bands performing in small clubs,,etc so tired of the state of radio and the "classic rock format"...ugh... I dont listen to much radio for that reason.

Not everyone "gets" the Band. I understand and accept that. But, from the first time I heard "Music From Big Pink" to this very day, the Band's music has touched me, excited me, inspired me, impressed me, amazed me and on and on. They are not only great; they are special.

Those three singers are seldom accused of having "great voices" in the traditional sense, but I can't think of any three singers that I would rather listen to than Rick, Richard and Levon. They kill me.

I've had the pleasure of recording with Levon and Garth. They are amazing. If you think Garth is impressive on Band records, you ought to sit across from him in the studio and listen in awe as he pulls all of his crazy elements together to create music you never even imagined. I don't use the word genius lightly, but Garth may qualify. If you don't believe that, sit in a studio with him for a weekend and see what you think afterward.

It has always been okay with me that the Band never achieved mega-hero status. I always felt like a member of a rather exclusive club.

As for the Who: I love them. I first saw them in 1967 and last saw them not long before Entwhistle died. They are a great rock and roll band, who, in my opinion, have never been given the proper respect for the impact they had. Cream and Hendrix notwithstanding, the Who had already perfected the power trio thing years before. Pete Townsend's guitar playing is just flat out FUN to listen to.

No question that the Who had a bigger audience than the Band. But, so did the Monkees and KC and the Sunshine Band. I'm not sure BIGGER equals BETTER. It's all so personal, anyway.

[This message has been edited by TrumanCoyote (edited 12-16-2005).]

I think the entire roots rock-alt country-americana movement{present company included} owe a debt to The Band

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bc

I think we all owe a debt to anybody who ever wrote, or performed a note or a word, as they are what fed our own roots.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhenderson_music.htm

That's my point!!!

You guys can slough it off with the "bigger doesn't mean better" rationale, which is obviously true in and of itself.

However, often things get bigger because they flat-out ARE better... in terms of concept, complexity, breadth and scope (especially of catalogue), etc., etc.

And to say junk like the Monkees and KC were "bigger" too is just so much tripe. Sales on the pop charts aren't what we're talking about here.

Two successful and critically acclaimed motion pictures based upon one's musical concept albums (and we're not talkin' HEAD here... even Sgt. Pepper & Magical Mystery Tour couldn't pull it off) is not easy to achieve.

And to top even that, writing a successful Broadway musical is probably the hardest thing to achieve in music (although some might argue Album Of The Year equals that).

PUH-LEEZE! If you like the Band, great... I can listen to them too... but don't bring any lame "some people just don't 'get' it" rationale to the table, as if you're in on some sort of higher mental plain because that tiny-step-above-hayseed worn-out rock/country crap tickles your fancy.

That's like arguing that Carl Orff's Carmina Burana is just as much an artistic achievement as Beethoven's Ninth.

I suppose one COULD attempt the argument, but then alas, that one and I are from different worlds, and further discussion would be pointless.

Anyway, back to the Beatles... I often look back now and wonder just how much of their "genius" can actually be attributed to George Martin. The majority of their post '67 work, and nearly ALL of their solo efforts, pretty much leave me cold nowadays.

[This message has been edited by RobertK (edited 12-17-2005).]

The Monkees are unfairly maligned because of their media contrived beginnings. They nevertheless made some excellent records and wrote some great songs as well as the Goffin/King/Boyce stuff they recorded. In all fairness, they also recorded some drivel but to dismiss them entirely as just junk is ridiculous.

As a side note: If any of you have cable and can catch a viewing of "Festival Express" documentary featuring, among others, Janis Joplins last performances during a tour across Canada, it's fascinating. They had some folks from the Band and Greatful Dead and other classic bands/artists. Very candid and I was blown away by Janis. She only had 2 concert performances filmed and this was one of them. She was so far above anything most people have ever seen as a live performer that you should check it out. I found it by accident one night.. good stuff.

Brian

You don't care for the Band. Fine. That does not make them better or worse than anyone else. It just means you have a preference. So do I, and I stated that perference. It's just my feeling.

My comment about some people not "getting" the Band did not imply any superiority on my part. It is a fact that I have observed. Dispute it if you wish. There are people who do not get classical music either. Or Neil Diamond (how is that possible?).

And I am guite sure you don't get the Band. Your comments make that crystal clear ("that tiny-step-above-hayseed worn-out rock/country crap"--very nice). That's ok. Many don't get it. It does not make you a bad citizen or a lousy neighbor. I guess they just never touched you the way they did me.

[This message has been edited by TrumanCoyote (edited 12-17-2005).]

[This message has been edited by TrumanCoyote (edited 12-17-2005).]

My dad can beat up YOUR dad! {It ain't a contest folks!}

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bc

[This message has been edited by bcushing (edited 12-17-2005).]

Then it's The Monkeys we are to blame for that "here are the song's images the way you should see them" era. Sounds,,,,MUSIC, became less important.

Thanks Mike!

Nesmith had PLENTY of funding,his mother invented liquid paper, and he was the heir to her fortune. {Gotta wonder what would have happened if Stephen Stills had gotten the role} Yes, he auditioned and lost out to Nesmith cause' he {Stills} had crooked teeth! {I can't MAKE this stuff up!}

How long is a piece of string??


The Beatles were not "original and groundbreaking". Lennon and McCartney were great students of music and drew inspiration from eveywhere from classical music to blues and early rock n roll.


BUT there were also the seminal "world famous" band who were popular everywhere they went...because of their music, because of their looks, because of the hype.


As for the Band, Truman, how can you not recognize Hudson and Robertson? IMO they were a pretty important component of Music From Big Pink and much of their important work. In fact, after Robertson left, what else did they do that made as much impact as their early work?? BTW The Hawk is still going strong.

I not only recognize them, I adore their work. But neither was a featured vocalist in the Band and my remark (if you re-read it) was specifically aimed at the vocalists. In my mind, Robbie is one of the 10 or 20 best songwriters in rock and one of the best rhythm guitarists. Not a bad lead player either, but his rhythm playing is masterful. Garth Hudson, IMO, is simply the best rock keyboardist. The best.

I take it back Truman

I too have a great respect for The Band. Saw The Last Waltz again not that long ago.... seminal movie there.... guess I just had to jump in for Robertson since he wrote a ton of their stuff

Of course it helps they got their start here in Toronto with... Rompin Ronnie Hawkins....its here that Dylan found them backing The Hawk. He jammed with them, then asked them to be his backing band. The rest is history

Ciao



[This message has been edited by John Voorpostel (edited 12-18-2005).]

So, summarizing:

Music became less important because of MTV.

MTV wouldn't have happened without the Monkees.

The Monkees wouldn't have happened without the Beatles.

Ergo sum - music is less important because of the Beatles!

The Band apparently had no role.

Scott

Has anyone seen the news report that the Beatles are sueing EMI for about 53 million in royalities they claim wasen't fairly accounted for. It was on CNN a couple of days ago. It looks like you got to watch it every minute.

Yep,,,this is from the BBC. This action has been going on for two years it seems.:

BBC:
Beatles sue EMI in royalties row

The surviving Beatles and relatives of the band's late members have begun legal action against record company EMI to get royalties allegedly worth £30m.
Sir Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and relations of George Harrison and John Lennon claim EMI owes record royalties to their company Apple Corps.

The band have issued legal proceedings in the High Court in London and the Supreme Court in New York.

An EMI spokeswoman said she was unable to comment on "ongoing litigation".

The band allege EMI owes more than £30m in record royalties to Apple, which was allegedly uncovered during an audit of Apple accounts.

Legal proceedings were issued on Thursday in the High Court in London and the Supreme Court in New York.

Apple Corp chief Neil Aspinall said: "We have tried to reach a settlement through good faith negotiations and regret that our efforts have been in vain.

"Despite very clear provisions in our contracts, EMI persist in ignoring their obligations and duty to account fairly and with transparency.

"Apple and the Beatles are, once again, left with no choice but to sue EMI."

The Beatles' last legal battle with EMI was in 1991, when Apple won a High Court ruling preventing the firm releasing an CD album box set.

The current negotiations over the alleged unpaid royalties have been under way for more than two years, an Apple spokeswoman said.

But have you heard WING sing the Beatles?

If not, you haven't really lived!

http://www.wingtunes.com/samples/mp...0Wing/WingCD801%20-%20Love%20Me%20Do.mp3

Official Website: www.wingtunes.com

--Jean

[This message has been edited by JL (edited 12-19-2005).]

I wish someone owed me $53M. No need to sue. No lawyers necessary. I'd just settle for 5 or 6 mil.

Well Truman,
They say everybody has his price.

jeez JL. Don't tell me you actually paid for a licience to record that one legally surely.
Are you one of Tiny Tim's love children by any chance?
I gave it my best shot for 15 seconds and had to turn it off.
That is awful.
Even for one of the awfulest of the Beatle songs.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhenderson_music.htm

Hahaha! No, I DEFINITELY didn't PAY anything to listen to Wing. I just think it's funny.

Hey, she's in YOUR country, Graham! An immigrant from Hong Kong.

Only in Australia????? --Jean

So that is the reason so many of our low brain power people are chanting the old white australia policy of late and being so mean to ethnics.
And here's me thinking it is whe war that was sparking it off.
Lord. I hope she is on the east side. I only rarely go there.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhenderson_music.htm

Well, six million doesn't go as far as it used to!

"Paul, one of these cases has $53 Million dollars, and it could be yours... or maybe not.

Our lawyer, eh, banker is willing to offer you $6 Million. Deal... or no deal?"