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This is a song I wrote called "My Girl and Country Music".

http://tobybarns.com/my-girl-and-country-music-song/

The music and melody came first, and then I started writing it as an exercise in crafting country style lyrics.

Nice song Toby. Is that you doing the lead vocal? The vocals and feel of the tune cause me to recall the Everly Brothers.Ricky Nelson era. Liked it.

Martin

Thanks for the feedback Martin. This demo is not me singing, I have utilized so many different wonderful singers over the years.

The production does have more of a classic or traditional, country pop feel; not so much contemporary. The lyrics do give a tip-of-the-hat to some real classics.

Hi Toby,
Your song sounds a lot like what is coming out of Nashville at present. Having listened to
Country Music from the early 50's I would put your song pretty good but a lot of other' s
are also.
If you wish to listen to some of my songs look for New Web Site on the Industry Board.
Here's hoping things will be looking up this year!

Hi Ray thanks for listening to the song. I wanted to keep the lyrics planted in country roots, with a really upbeat feel.

Yes I agree there is no shortage of good country songs out there. That's okay; I keep on writing and working on the craft.

I will listen to your songs, take care!

Toby,

Really enjoyed listening to this--very upbeat, catchy tune with some nice lines lyrically. Good luck with this one.

Deej

Solid country music effort ... whoever the vocalist is, he has an excellent voice ( a little like Glen Campbell)!

Kevin

Hey Deej - glad you enjoyed the listen and thanks for the feedback!

Hey Kevin thanks for the feedback. I think Glen was actually a Beach Boy for a short stint, kind of neat...

Hi Toby,

You eschew clever in favor of something really heartfelt, and that's fresh in an upbeat number like this. A really good "good time" song that is straightforward and conversational and also kind of self-reflexive in that it had me doing what the singer descibes--it got stuck in my mind.

Mike

One of the things you might consider in the future writing is DETAILS. What kinds of boots, jeans, what SONGS of country music? Using specifics, WHAT time your sitting in traffic, names of trucks, (again another pretty cliche' theme there) names of roads or highways, etc. And of course, one of the problems in songs like this are using words that are more or less red flags. "Girl" "COUNTRY MUSIC". Again, having names, are always a much more specific, "My Mary reminds me of "whatever." We're in a much more detailed world now due to the Internet and people's experiences, so making it more personal and dynamic usually will up the level of the lyric.

MAB

Might listen to the songs of Eric Church or Sturgell Simpson as a guide for current lyrical and musical direction.

Toby, as an example of what I am talking about, listen to this guy's song. He is getting a lot of attention without a record deal. I'm ambivalent about the song, it's not bad, but does have a level of detail that is important.


http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Arron+Watson%2C+Vaquero&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=7E833C5ADE79BAD715E87E833C5ADE79BAD715E8&v_t=keyword_rollover

Eric Church came from Granite Falls, NC. which is 5 minutes from my house. I never knew him as he was just another local kid but my wife, Sherri met him a couple of times and said he's a good guy who hasn't forgotten where he came from.

Stevie

Once again, proves my point about being out IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. These artists and writers Are EVERYWHERE, and too many people miss them because they are all focused on Nashville, New York or LA. Imagine if you had gone to see him several times six or seven years ago when he was playing bars, coffee houses, doing the open mics and writers shows. And then actually got to write a few songs with him. How would your standing be now?

All I'm saying. Thanks for proving my point.
MAB

Hey Marc - I am curious about one point you mentioned. It is that mentioning "country music" in the the song is a red-flag.

What I mean is, this song is aimed directly at the country music market. Now, if a song is written in a non-specific genre, then yes I agree that putting the words "country music" in the lyrics or title would be a red flag.

Within the lyrics of this particular song though, there are several respectful references (not copies) to some historic, legendary, huge country classic songs.

For instance:

"angel in a honky-tonk"

"Stands by her man"

"Walkin’ around after the midnight"

"friends out in places low"

"The pieces fall together"

That was my idea behind the song; to have a modern day song which reminds the listener of several historic classic country songs.

So to me, it seems fitting for this particular song to basically SCREAM country music including in the title because that is the whole point of the song.

So I have been trying to figure out how a red flag for mentioning "country music" applies to this particular song, I can't figure it out!

Toby,I just did a rather lengthy answer to your question on one of the other threads you did, but I'll do something else here.

It's the word "COUNTRY." What you are trying to do is make people KNOW it is COUNTRY without mentioning that SPECIFIC WORD. That is what I mean by RED FLAGS. It is a method we use (And what I mean by that are mostly NASHVILLE WRITERS)
called "SHOW, DON'T TELL." It is a process by which we get the LISTENER to draw the conclusions of it with out having to state the obvious. If you use songs, that are ABOUT country, you don't have to SAY it's "COUNTRY."

Here is a recent huge hit song that has done similar things, yet done them in a very interesting way:

Maren Morris' "MY CHURCH"

[Verse 1]
I’ve cussed on a Sunday
I’ve cheated and I’ve lied
I’ve fallen down from grace
A few too many times
But I find holy redemption
When I put this car in drive
Roll the windows down and turn up the dial

[Chorus]
Can I get a hallelujah
Can I get an amen
Feels like the Holy Ghost running through ya
When I play the highway FM
I find my soul revival
Singing every single verse
Yeah I guess that’s my church

[Verse 2]
When Hank bring the sermon
And Cash leads the choir
It gets my cold, cold heart burning
Hotter than a ring of fire
When this wonderful world gets heavy
And I need to find my escape
I just keep the wheels rolling, radio scrolling
Until my sins wash away


Okay, she could have just said "I love to drive down the road with COUNTRY MUSIC BLARING!!! She didn't. She made references, basically in the second verse, but it really was just a part of the BACKDROP of the song. The song is not about COUNTRY music, as much as it is about GETTING IN THE CAR, SHUTTING OUT THE REST OF THE WORLD and being in a place that is HER OWN CHURCH. It makes the references to church, Sunday, cheated and lied, fallen down from Grace, Redemption" etc, words that MEAN the same thing, but in a different usage. There are references all the way through it, and the artists, HANK, CASH, etc. are just PART OF THAT. It also uses the images of Hank and Cash in different ways:
"
It' Gets My Cold Cold Heart Burning
Hotter than a ring of fire..."

While those are well worn lyrics, on some of the best known country songs, they are used in a little different way.

DETAILS. Used in a way that we don't hear quite as much. Then the music is really soulful, really driving and gets everyone singing and clapping. This is a WILD FIRE of a song, and now many people are trying to EMULATE IT. So if you are thinking about writing your own, you can probably put that one on the back burner as well.

The point is that you really have to work on finding different ways to say things. It's hard. And even if some things are done over and over again, you understand the mentality behind it. It has as much to do with being in a society of people all trying to do the same things. With all these songs, artists, writers, etc. they all are out there. It is the constant quest to find that twist, that turn, that place that most people just didn't see.

And that's the hard part.

MAB

Solid production and vocals, I like that stopping effect in the verses

Only weakness for me is that it seems to run into the chorus too fast. It might be a matter of adding another measure to build anticipation, cause it's like the last words of the verse are not even out yet or resolved, and the chorus Is already started.

I enjoyed it.

Hey thanks for sharing the feedback!

Mike - Thanks for the positive thoughts!

Marc - Thanks for all the great information and perspective!

Trentb - Thanks for your observations. I tend to lean towards the up-beat songs so I guess things can fly-by pretty quickly!

After reading all of the post my impression is that it is one of the best songs I have heard in a while, my take being a softer version of the some of the rockabilly songs of the late 1950s and is a throwback to that style. Reminds me a little bit of one-hit wonder Robin Luke's "Susie Darling" as one example. And much of the music of that era is still popular today and has never really died. Would like to invite you to check out some of my writings over on the SoundClick site. Peace.

Hey beech - thanks for the feedback!

The song seems to remind a lot of folks of the late fifties, early sixties era you mention.

Not quite Buddy Holly-esque but pretty close. Great rhythm.

Hey beech - Thanks!

I have received a lot of comments here, and from other sources, expressing how much this song reminds them of an earlier, innocent time period like the late fifties and early sixties.

I did not see that when I wrote it!

But now, I can picture sock-hops, old hot-rods, drive-in movie theaters, honky-tonks, hay-rides, transistor radios and a really fresh reminiscence of innocence.

Wow, live and learn... I'm just glad people like the song! :-)

Hey Toby,

Great tune mate ! Toe tapping and thigh slapping. Just a good fun tune. Not every song needs to be profound....... it would spoil the moment.

cheers, niteshift

Hey niteshift - Thanks!

Here's to the fun ones!

Cheers!

Hi Toby! For pitching purposes, there seems to be a lot of upbeat, uptempo country songs right now, and you have that here. But it also seems that if you're writing for the country market, what's around today is not what anyone wants anymore because it's already out of style, or will be shortly. Bro country came and went, pick ups as well as pretty girls and their jeans. I guess what I'm saying is, as fun and "today" as this sounds, it's most likely already out of date.

I'm assuming since you've had a demo made, and a fine sounding one at that, you're going to try to pitch it? I think what A&R reps want is the "next thing". No one knows what that is but they'll know it when they hear it. I've been told many times, to write the best songs I can, make as many connections in the music industry as I can, write the best songs I can and oh, did I mention, write the best songs I can? And make those connections.

If you don't care about pitching, if it's just for yourself, then forget everything I said. You have a fun, well produced song. Now write another, even better one.

Ricki

What the heck is the next big thing.....? lol
Who knows but a Great Heartfelt Song about people's lives will always be relevant.
Boots and Booze and Girls and Parties will always be around.
BUT Great Songs that can make you cry or feel or get the chills are rare.
Try writing one of them....Not so Easy.....

Hey Ricki - Spoken like an experienced songwriter indeed. That's something I really enjoy about this forum!

This song is more of an effort in crafting a Country song based upon "cliches'" not so much about "trends".

Since I write lyrics and music, this song represents the best I could craft at that moment. It is more about being a SONG which just happens to be in the Country genre. I do consider it a very pitch-able song, but not based on any trends, just cliches' and a fun listen.

I think that the only thing that keeps Country songs "country" IS the cliche's. Basically the trucks, boots, drinkin' etc. have been part of every era of Country music since the 1940's. Even before that it was about cowboys, the range, broken hearts. I think that ALL the cliches' in Country music will out-live all of us!

I tend to write up-tempo songs. That's just the way my creative energies work.

My perspective about my own songwriting is that I have YET TO WRITE MY BEST SONGS. No doubt! That is the plain and simple truth that floats around in my mind every waking day.

Trends come and go. Song crafting goes where the writer takes it. I push for new levels and higher highs. I push myself, my "pen to paper" lyrics, my music and my obsessive desire to craft catchy, enjoyable songs.

I think that songwriters who specifically chase the commercial market (guilty), in any genre, are absolutely tempted to chase trends. I personally sort of "take a peek" at what's going on in the Country market occasionally, just to learn what's going on at the time. But I really don't like to base my writing, lyrically or musically, on trends (even though I have been guilty of that as well). I don't spend enough time listening to any mainstream music sources!

I definitely agree with you. The way to do it is aim for the best song you can create; music and lyrics and etc.

As far as having connections, for me it has typically been somebody, who knows somebody, who knows somebody. But I definitely don't over-use any connections like that! They can be incredibly important! And best suited as single song approaches. One thing that will kill connections, no matter how many layers are involved, is to pitch songs that are NOT the best you can craft.

Sitting here in the morning traffick, same old, same old grind.

You got to be joking me.

This isn't even a song IMO.

Many Writers use the same old same old clichés....over and over.
I hear it in Hit Songs BUT Don't forget that Country is a smaller market than Pop and Rock.
Christian Groups and Singers are huge all around the world and fill out door stadiums
AND they use the same old same old words over and over....THE Music is powerful and catchy though....
So that's about it.....

Hey - Barry.

Good point about writing songs that people find relatable to their lives. The more people who can relate, the better!

As far as partying songs, well, that is definitely a tried and proven topic which the public can relate to.

For some reason "I want to Rock and Roll all Night and Party Everyday" comes to mind. My song is obviously not to that extreme.

My song is about country girls, and music, in a good, traditional way!

I have written sad songs. If there are more in me, I will craft them the best that I can.

Rarely is any song easy to write.

Hey BlakeAllyn!

I am not quite sure what you mean by: "joking me"???

Okay BlakeAllyn - "This isn't even a song IMO."

That at least makes a bit more sense! :-)

Say, if it isn't even a song, then what is it?

A product. Its like selling a lemon, cause you cant build a car.

Hey BlakeAllyn - I actually wasn't going to respond to your last comment, basically because I did not feel that it made any sense, and that you might be trolling a bit there.

But, you seem to enjoy music, and even songwriting, and so we have something in common with that.

You also "despised" one of my other Country songs that I posted, which is great! That is part of what getting feedback is all about!

As for the song on THIS THREAD, you have made it quite clear that you do not like it either. I think that's great too!

I thought that we went fairly thoroughly into why I approach writing Country songs the way that I do, in that other thread. I thought that I had explained why I specifically write songs aimed at the commercial market, and also why I do that. SOMETIMES.

I also got the impression that you saw, maybe not agreed with, but understood my points that I explained.

So, to reply to your last comment here, my opinion is this:

Any song is a product. It is a collection of musical notes, words that typically rhyme and follow some type of structure, and it has the ability to make people do something.

Maybe they hear a song and they dance, or they cry, or they laugh, or they head-bang, or it takes them back in time, or they rush out and BUY IT (legally).

The word product is not a "bad" word. I have been doing this songwriting "thing" for a long time. They are all special, unique, heartfelt creations. The process of crafting songs is THERAPEUTIC for me. I hope your songwriting is helpful to you in some way.

Now, I looked up the definition of a "product" and one of the definitions was, quote: "a thing produced by labor". See where I am going with this?

So, hey, I think it would be great if one of your songs eventually produced some financial payback for you. That can be a pretty sweet rush.

Maybe you would not want that though, because you could not stand for one of your songs to be a "product" in a financial sense. That's cool. I would venture to guess that you DO put forth "labor" into the songs which you produce though.

Never said the song was bad. For what it is it is a hell of a song. For what it is.

My point is that you have produced a song for the sole purpose of selling it. Clearly. That is not music. At all. Think of the blues singer in 1920 sitting on his porch singing to ease his pain. How can one call what he does and what you do both music? They are diametrically opposed to each other. In my opinion, the world doesn't need bubble gum garbage like that as music. Thats musics version of tabloid entertainment. Mindless, derivative and plain.

To me its simply. Write solely for the purpose of intellectual creativity. If as a byproduct you can make some money off of it great. If you cant, then work a job like anyone else. I am not good enough to write that song if I lived to 1000. But I never would write it cause I dont write for that reason. I dont edit. I dont change. I press record and improv whatever happens. Its a pure expression of my feelings. I then share it and people say change this change that. Um no. I write for me. If someone else likes it great? If nobody else does even better.

The idea of turning a creative act into a moneymaking one, and thus corrupting the creative act, is a symptom of the biggest flaw of human beings. The delusion, that financial gain is a worthwhile pursuit at the expense of mental freedom. We all need a living. But only to enjoy the off times we have with family, friends, etc. By writing songs as a product, you make the off time moot, as it becomes just another mindless waste of time.

I actually feel bad for you that you feel the way you do. Better off working at Mcdonalds and writing songs for fun.

WOWO Blake....Cool comment.
I find most of Country is Soulless....and Music Row is not interested in Creativity or Something Different.....It's just the way it is today.
Some Pop and Rock are OK.
I like a Lot of Christian Contemporary....Great anthemic melodies and a lot of passion...

I write because I have to.....
That's who I am....Every 50 songs or so I write a good one and maybe ever 100 of so I write an Important song.....I wrote a Song about an experience I had right here in my little room called The Gift......

Thats prob why I liked your song so much.

I like almost all kinds of music. I write in a lot of different genres. The commercial Country songwriting is appealing to me because of the lyrical challenges.

It is lyrically challenging because there are some fairly limiting parameters involved. It is not like Pop or Rock for instance, where there is a lot more room for lyrics to be abstract.

History is full of highly successful and satisfying "fun" songs that are in no way "deep" or emotionally moving.

There is a time and place for all kinds of different music. And, the world DOES need good commercial songs written for the purpose of pleasing mass audiences.

I do think of the poor old Blues pickers from the 1920's. You know what happened to them? Some slick biz minded sharks would come along, buy 'em a couple bottles of whiskey and have them sign away ANY and ALL OWNERSHIP claims to the ART/SONGS/PRODUCTS that they poured their PAIN into whilst sitting on the porch pickin' and singin' the blues!

Now that's corruption!

There is definitely intellectual creativity involved in writing songs for the commercial market. They are what they are. That does not mean that the creative process behind the song does not involve emotion or skill.

So even if you are going to flip burgers, shouldn't you at least try to be the best burger flipper that you can be?

Eh you just dont get it. You are taking a beautiful thing and privatizing it.

BTW, I saw the lyrics to this song. It might be challenging for a 5th grader.

As I say, if you cant write meaningful music, find another career. I dont disagree that history is filled with highly successful songs with no meaning. But success, to you, reeks of me to money. There is no creativity for writing songs in the pop market. Zero. None. Sorry.

Actually I think it is you who does not get the fact that, I DO get it.

Coming out and admitting that some particular songs that I write are indeed aimed directly at the commercial markets is no doubt going to turn-off some people.

I TOTALLY get that.

I DO get that it can be perceived as soulless, and terrible to write songs for the purpose of being marketable.

I mention words like commercial and marketable because I like those creative challenges within the CRAFT of songwriting.

I WANT to write songs that have extremely broad appeal and that will connect with the greatest amount of people possible.

I have loads of songs which I have written that are deeply introspective, non-commercial, and the opposite of what I think it is that you seem to hate so much.

My perspective is that songwriting is a craft. And to me, that includes being capable of writing within a huge amount of diversity, including marketable songs.

You, as you have said, are unwilling to listen to other people's suggestions. You write for YOURSELF and the more people who DON'T like your songs, the better! Talk about "privatization". You won't even listen to suggestions your friends give you.

I have had the UNINSPIRING experience of trying to co-write songs with someone like you. You have stated that you are unwilling to change anything, unwilling to listen to other people's suggestions. And by all means, if a song is crafted in any remotely marketable way, then it is "mindless waste of time".

If I am going to co-write with anyone, I take it completely seriously. I bring my best, I utilize every bit of my CREATIVITY and I will be completely OPEN to listening to other people's suggestions.

If somebody (or some commercial entity) wants a song about deeply emotional, painful experiences then I will treat it like any other song. I will be like, let's do this!

I will dig deep and use all of the knowledge and capabilities that I have gained from listening to other people's suggestions over the years. And from the experiences from experimentation, changing things, editing, re-writing to specific requests or suggestions and so forth.

If somebody (or some commercial entity) wants a completely NON-COMMERCIAL song, I will do my best to create and deliver such a request as well.

There is plenty of room for creativity in Pop music markets!

Toby,

I think the main difference between us is why we write songs.

I am under no illusion. I can barely carry a tone. But I write to express whatever is on my mind in a given moment. It is natural, and authentic. It seems your prime motivation, is the listener.

The listener is incidental to me. What you wrote here was a high quality, professional song. But there are millions more of then like that. I see no reason that yours stands out.

But there is only one me. So, by default, it is unique. Sure, your song might reach more people but in reality its reaching nobody cause there is nothing in to reach. There is nothing in your song to have IMO.

I think my below song says it quite clearly.

Im barking with the dogs
under a forgotten moon
the leopards are in lace
been 12 hours since noon (ie midnight lol)

I hear a vacant catacomb
my sara asks me why
Im lying with my answer
and the lighting hits us dry

On a horseback comes a rider
shadowy but brimming with zeal
he rode past my barracks
and broke his solemn seal

i returned home to newport
and danced upon the logs
the people still ask me why
im still barking with the dogs


That set of lyrics is a million times better then yours. And frankly I think the song is well, especially considering the lyrics, music, melody, harm, where made up on the spot, recorded once, without edits. Oh and I sing like a dying mule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNYVOkQm_k


I tell you what, let me hear you cover that version, with your instruments and voice, and then lets compare.

Hi Toby:

Enjoyed your upbeat country song. You made a great choice in your demo singer and I wish you all the best if you are planning to "pitch" this one. It's a tough market for songwriters these days but you never know when it just might "happen!"

Regards, ----Dave

Hey Trollboy 1 -

Well I see some light has been shed upon you.

You know, I actually FELT for you. I wanted to share ideas to help you.

By the way, I have a personal rule-of-thumb that I do not ever do recordings of covers of other people's works. I have a pretty advanced knowlege of copyright law, and that just creeps me out too much. Call me paranoid, yes, but I come from the old school protocol of: no unsolicited materials accepted.

Hey Dave - thanks for the listen, so glad you enjoyed!

Your feedback is much appreciated.

What Marc-Alan Barnett said. The man knows of what he speaks.
Also, if the singer is constantly telling you how "country" he is, that just reminds me of the guy in the locker room who's always bragging about all the women he's having sex with...when he really isn't getting any.