JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Songwriting Advice From Boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFAshWRLec

I think we're all guilty of writing anything we can think of, as opposed to really trying to say something.

I recall Pete Townshend saying something similar, that you have to want to communicate something, otherwise it's a waste of time.

Do we write because it's a habit or do we write because we have something to say? The times Ive written from within, people I know asked me why i wrote that, what was happening.

And I think thats what we fear a bit, writing so personally that people ask questions lol.

Maybe when we write songs about anything, they dont move anybody?

i write about anything all the time cause usually i find something in it i can use later.Why waste time not writing,you never know how the next line will turn out.It's when i have writers block is when i write about anything and i mean anything.Y'all aint seen the "real" crap i've written yet,lol.Mike

The boss said it all.

Vic

I'm not so sure that's an universal claim. The 70'ies where Springsteen and many others emerged, was a time in art where it became more important to say something than anything else.

Elvis just shook his leg. The Beatles wrote for swimmingpools. Springsteen romanticized the streets of NY. That's rock'n roll. It's opportunists breaking out of their cage.

You can pick up just about ANY book at the time, and be more enlightened, if that's what music is about. It just isn't.

But yes, artists mirror their time. Just like any songwriter would, because they're living in a world where people affect people, for both good and bad.

Many artists use their artistry to grow as people, learning as they go, and project that process. They discover, they don't neccesarily figure everything out in advance.

Both Costello and Springsteen are great with words, and to me it sounds like that's what they are doing here as well, trying to rationalize after the fact.

I'd be more interested in the cracks and the bruises along the way. I don't think this type of advisory conversation suits these artists at all, nor is particularly rock'n roll. As part of a rock'n roll audience, if anything, it turns me off.

Easy to say, not so easy to do!

Hello, Everybody...

I read and listen...
I post and review...
I write in a way that often makes people wonder/think/analyze
I try new things to hopefully elevate my creativity
Our group has always been different, and now we crave that
And we generally hate "Baby I Love You" songs...

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hey Bugsey,i know you rock more than country it up but there is a book out by Jake Brown titled "Nashville Songwriter",it's about the inside stories of some of country's biggest hits.Some good insight on how those songs came about.Eveybody has their own way of writing and i think if you limit yourself to one guys{Boss} idea,you may be losing a talent or a song for that matter that you never knew you had.It's great to put everybody's perspective together and see how they all work but when it comes down to it,if it aint in you,it aint coming out.I don't know what the Boss meant by a brush and canvass cause i'm no painter.But i do know you need those two things to begin a painting,then some paint,the image will soon follow.And i know you don't have to have a number one hit like the Boss never did to be a great songwriter.I'm just saying what works for some,doesn't always work for others.

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yes Bruce did give some good advice and i store it with all the others and use it whenever however i can.I love to hear how songwriters write,when they write and what inspires them.

So that youtube link to Elvis Costello was gold for you. Lots of other musicians talking about how they write...

That EC interview with The Boss came from his TV show of a few years back that featured a number of songwriters. There was always talk about the creative process and careers of those featured, and they would always play together.

Awesome television.

I suppose it depends on if you're writing for your bread or for your heart.

The consensus among many would suggest speak from your heart and success will come.

I rule out financial gain of course.

Vic

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And, if you ever plan on covering A springsteen song, and are looking for even ONE, that is not on youtube by somebody already, good luck, it wont happen.

Look at the list of pro artists who have covered his songs, he's defintly worth studying.

http://bruce.orel.ws/covers.html

Bugsey,are you or are you not Bruce's mama?I've never seen anyone so hung up on an artist that's not in their preteens or teens as much as you.I do like Bruce's work a heck of a lot but damn!

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this fucking thread is adorable.

Hey Bugsey, I was a little puzzled by your reply, then realized it could have been taken wrong...it was meant to be more thankful for having uncovered that interview, which, when followed, showed lots more interviews with the likes of Neil Young, Paul Simon etc...

So because it was not clear...thank you for that link

Nothing beats "Good News Thread" but it is pretty adorable.

Yeah well, many people feel the need to attack s thread, if it was commentary from an artist they like, it be a different story.

Or depending on who posted it. My guess is had John or Mike Dunbar posted this same exact thing, people would say "Oh what a wonderful video" You are most wonderful for posting this, we are so lucky to have people post these things for us....the same thread mind you.

it translates over to the song threads, critiques are based on who posted the song.

I may be annonymous, but y'all the phonies.

Bugsey,

When you argue with absolutely everybody ... is it really everyone else that is having a problem?

Some folks give more critical reviews and some folks do some back patting. Both are acceptable for a public forum like this, in my opinion.

No, point was there shouldnt be an argument, if you look over the thread, I only sparred with people who had something to say.

If somebody wants to say "Ahh I dont care for Springsteen" thats fine, one of my best friends hates him.

But dont try to make the advice or thread seem foolish, because if "you" could write like that you wouldnt be here, you meaning us all.

If you ask 10 professional songwriters if Springsteen is a great songwriter the majorty would say yes, and have

No argument from me on the Boss -- ha, ha.

sure,you can post my music,some publicity is better than no publicity.But it is already posted on the MP3 forum.I think music from an understudy of Bruce might be more interesting though.And by the way,you are welcome on viewing my concert photos!If it wasn't for people like me and professional photographers,people couldn't go google photos of their favorite artist.

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uh,iwas thinking of you Bugsey and yes you've commented on my Bruce and Patty pics,thanx!

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both of these are smokin' but i have to go with "live" [boss] version on this one for that reason alone.

It's always Bruce with you.

lol

Most of us can and should write about anything...but like BS says, you need to dig deep and find the way to say it that is authentically you. You need to mean it. You need to take a risk with how you say it, and the way you say it has to be every bit as interesting as the topic itself.

Yeah, if we rely on our musical sensibilities, the majority of us are not going to do much. We might sound great to people with lesser ability, but in the grand scheme how musical are we?

Im not Eddie Van Halen on guitar, or Buddy Rich on Drums, or John Entwistle on bass, I cant sing like Brian Wilson, all I got is whats inside me.

Thats my advantage, my unique voice. if I want to move people, that is the only way, writing a song with some guts.

Bruce worked his butt off to become strikingly average, but he's moved alot more people than alot of the greats

It is Fords, Chevies and BMWs as far as I see things and Springsteen has never been on my "A" List. Does that matter in the overall scheme of things? Probably not... but my point is that not everyone thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. To each his own, said the old lady as she kissed her cow!

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I like The Boss. But the man hasn't been able to write a hit for so long. I believe during his prime he was the go to man for advice but right now I'd rather ask the lead singer of One Republic. He's written a lot of hits for other people in the last few years.

You know what, that is not a bad response.

But it depends what you are interested in.

Bruce has never been a hit songwriter, never wanted to be one. he gave away songs he thought would be hits, and they became hits for other artists.

Because the night, was hit for patty smith and the b 52's. and fire was originally written for Elvis, but he died. Pointer sisters scored a hit.

His stuff is one long ass story, where if you hop on board in the middle or end, you missed alot.

Hes not a hit songwriter like Billy Joel, he is a volume writer.

If you want to write like todays hitmakers, study them. They did something right.

Saw him interviewed not long ago where he criticized mainstream music and that there was no soul in songs anymore. Chalked it up to old man syndrome. A lot of people like these mainstream songs including me. He doesn't understand them so he lashes out. It's fine. I don't really care. I like what I like.

I actually saw an interview where he shocked everyone saying he was a fan or myley cyrus.

He even appeared at a taylor Swift show.

He's not a pop snob, he has just said he dont like that people dont make albums any more, it's all singles.

He even embraced Taylor Swift.

Miley Cyrus is actually a decent songwriter. And performer. Not my cup of tea but I respect her.

Same with Taylor. Her songwriting skills from her debut to now is quite amazing. She also organizes every aspect of her tours. I used to not like her but I will forever defend her love for her music and fans. She is 100 % genuine and a superstar. She deserves every achievement she earns.

Bruce Springsteen recognizes talent.

Taylor Swift is really good for what she does teen songs.

I dont feel the same way about Miley Cyrus songs but thats me.

Whitehorse is probably one of the best pop country songs I have heard. Much better than Faith Hill's Breathe or any of Shania Twain's

here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm8MtrGABB0

Haha. Puts a smile on your face. That's a great clip. Thanks.

Haha, I like Springsteen, but how can rock'n roll be anything else than a cliché?

Even the claims that things must come from your "heart" and be "authentic" ect. is cliché. Your heart is nothing but a muscle pumping blood. How much about your "true" self do you actually know? Are you what you feel, or have done, what your parents have told you? Are you what Freud have said, what you have experienced, or the social communities you engage in? Ask a hundred people and you'll get a 100 stories.

The truth is rather that you CAN write for money, and get a hit. It's called pop music. People can't hear squat through words, recordings and sequencing of notes. They get seduced by sound and personalities, and there's a commercial opportunity in every current belief and event.

You may hate your achievements down the line, though, because work has a tendency to reflect back on you. That's what happens when you do things for the wrong reasons. Plenty musicians have experienced that, just like a billion office dudes in suits.

I don't believe music is about great messages for one moment. Artists may find some statements profitable once in a while, or believe their fans like to hear a certain message. But at the core it's just about playing with ideas and having fun with words and sounds. It's succesful to the extent others think it's interesting and fun too. Maybe you get to have some good times with other people. Music connects.

I think Costello and Springsteen got way too pretentious.

Anybody remember the word entertainment? That is a "real" word :-)