JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Producer: how do I earn

Well, at last whole bunch of singers has been caught by my beats, so what the next? I mean a business side.
Now there is very popular this way: producers just sell licenses for their beats (exclusive or non-exclusive) I do this too, but am interested in expanding.
Example: singer has a song with a melody and lyrics and wants me to make an arrangement. Were are my wages here?
I could just charge prepayment based on, say, hourly rates for this, but more interesting, as for me is: no upfront pay but split of a profit.
I see one of the points: split of a copyright first - both of a song and sound recording of that song, and I think this is fair deal cuz without an acceptable nowadays sound song is died in most cases, and singers understand this, if not,
why they call me?
Ok, seems, situation is mostly clear, so what kind of agreement could be suitable in my case?

I think you have three choices or some combination of them.....

1. Request to be a co-writer. You then would receive mechanical royalties if someone recorded and released the song plus royalties for airplay through your PRO.

2. You could be paid as a producer. You would charge an upfront fee for your role as producer. I have no idea how much your singers would pay. You could also negotiate a fee per sale of the song. I think the producers of well-known artists like Lady Gaga get large fees plus a percentage.

3. You could be paid as a studio musician - the equivalent of a drummer perhaps. A flat fee and that would be it.

The odds of making anything from royalties is not very good unless the singers are very successful and the song does well in sales and airplay.

The fees for 2 and 3 are negotiable and you would just have to propose a fee to the singer and see what they come back with and try to reach an agreement.

Colin, thanks, as always your advices are to the point - short and wise.

Hi,
I'm been looking for a good producer to work with,I'm an rnb and pop artist,do u have an e-mail I can reach you at?

Alek,

In today's world, it's very common for the person producing the beats or music track which someone writes and/or sings to, to be added as a co-writer. In addition, you would (or could) own the SR Recording Copyright, so you'd be paid for any use of that specific recording and arrangement should they make a new version without your original track, but following the same blueprint.

If I were you, I'd ask for both. You could ALSO ask to be paid a fee, but I'd feel less inclined to then expect all of the above in addition. I think the best and fairest outcome would be to be included as a songwriter and to share the SR copyright with the others and then, by sharing that, ask for some reasonable fee which would account for the time you put in, and the investment in gear etc. For example, if you would choose someone $100 dollars to record their song, then you'd charge a single co-writer $50 dollars, thus splitting the cost of the work, or if there were 2 others you'd get $33 dollars etc.

Remember, there is no set rule on how this has to work. You are free to negotiate anything you all agree on. I suggest everyone sign a simple agreement stating the terms of your mutual agreement in front of witnesses or a notary public (not sure what you call them) to make it official.

Try to be fair to all. If they want to negotiate it differently, then listen to their offer and decide if you want those terms. Just do not try to negotiate AFTER the fact because unless you wrote the melody or words, you would not legally be entitled to anything more than ownership of the arrangement and the SR copyright of that specific version which they could easily re-record knocking you off altogether. Business today is done with new rules/norms that are not in the law as far as I am aware. (And I remind you I am not an attorney and this is merely my opinion). As someone (i.e. myself) who often co-writes by supplying someone with a finished music track to which they write lyrics and sing it working off the melody within my music track, this has always been a grey area for me but I always had an agreement with my co-writers of 50/50 split of everything top to bottom. I never charged them because I wasn't doing a finished master of anything, just a demo. I once gave co-writing credits to my guitarist simply because the guitar riff he added after the fact so improved the groove of the song, I felt it was worth it even though he had nothing to do with the words, melody or even the underlying arrangement and music track. But you can do any deal you feel is right and everyone agrees with. He did not ask for co-writer credit, but I gave it anyway. I only wish everyone would be fair and reasonable... so much good would come of it.

Brian

Songsmith,


Do you have finished songs and are just looking for tracks to match them or what exactly?

Brian

Brian's advice is sound. Make sure you are happy with your agreement, it's spelled out on paper, and everyone involved is happy with it too and signs it. That signed document is binding. If you don't do that beforehand, then you'll set yourself up for a nightmare later on. Trust me. Been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt.

Hi all, and thanks for advices, and a deal is approaching...
indie label chose my beat and would love to release a song over it...
the matter is: they are UK based and I'm Ukraine's one...
of course, I proposed to put everything on writing before...
so, what are the underwater riffs in this case?

Ok, contracts are signed and sent to the London...
thanks to everybody for advices here.
I asked a share of a songwriting and in production too and that's done.
They are going to make a release of a single and promote it.
Will keep you posted of further news.

I now this thread has aged but I would like to add a couple of notes for anyone looking at this path.

The producer handles the full arrangement of the song, getting musicians lined up, having the vision of the finished product, getting the recording engineer, studio and appropriate gear in place. He may or may not do the recording, mixing or mastering.

If you are selling beats, you're probably the engineer and a composer. What you really have to decide is if you are going to be a producer as part of your songwriting experience and use it to promote your music along with others, or are you going to be a primary producer because that is the business you are interested in.

If you intend to record someone else's songs for a living it's generally a per song or per hour rate. If you don't know the person, you are probably better off charging a per hour rate. If that person needs 32 takes to get it right, it costs you time and money, not just them.

If you are the mixing engineer, you would either get a flat rate or hourly for that task, and around here that's about $300-500 per song. Mastering, about $100. Again, I'm kind of going by local standards for people in the business who have an idea what they are doing. Not the top of the list, not the bottom.

To produce, - arrange, record, mix and master - standard around here is about $1000 to $2000 a song. This is much more subjective though. Talent becomes as important as technical skill. The big guns get as much as 10K per song - at least that's the rumor mill.

To take part in the ownership is a completely different beast. First of all, you have to believe the song will win. You can spend a lot of years doing favors, acting as co-writer, taking percentages of rights and lots of good will instead of getting money to put gas in your car. It feeds the dream but you also need to feed the family. Still you do it because this is a business of friends helping friends.

Judy

That is Great news, Alek. Please keep us posted about the rest of this story as it unfolds for you. I wish you the best of luck with your music and dealings with the "industry."

Dave