JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Older songwriters composers and music producers

why is it that the older guys always try there best to discredit
the younger songwriters , composers and music producers?
OK here is why, because we bring new things to the table.
we get deal they don't.
they are trying to full fill a dream that will never come to pass.
we are living ours.
it's to much time i am on sites and always some old guy trying to discredit my work and the work of some of my friend, posting negative comments. they are getting older and older so they want to try to crush as much people before they meet there end.
so to you old guys STOP being negative. if you think a deal is not for you just don't comment pass it on and move on.
if you had done more of this when you were young you mite of made it. but you did not so just try to make a hit song and stop trying to discredit others.

I don't think anyone was trying to discredit you, just pointing out that most songs don't earn a cent,let alone $200.00. If you get a hit you can earn good money but they rarely, if ever, come along. I started writing at a very young age,and like they say, my first 100 songs were only practice songs, learning the craft type songs, but I kept at it and I encourage you to do the same. If you are meant to be a hit songwriter,it just may happen.If not, have fun anyway. Many a great song never gets noticed while some so so songs do get recorded, it's the nature of the business. Don't get discouraged by us "old" guys poking a little fun, we may see a little of us in you back before reality got hold of us.LOL

You're doing your best to discredit yourself with this diatribe.
Whatever you post in a forum like this is how you're representing yourself to the people who read it. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you post a bunch of ageist (and sexist...if you count "guys") whining that is full of misspelled words and syntactical errors?
As for your assertions...
By older, I'm guessing you mean post-pubescent. I would assume, from your poor spelling and grammar, that you haven't graduated from high school, yet. It's easy to know everything when you don't really have a clue how much everything there is to know. You might be surprised at how many of the new things that you bring to the table are not new at all.
You're assuming that anyone "older" than you has dreams that will never come to fruition. Who's being negative now?
How can you be so certain that your imaginary enemies haven't spent a great deal of time working on their craft? I've been writing songs since I was about fifteen. I am way better at it now than I was when I first started. Write a thousand songs, and then come back and look at the work you're doing right now.
I think your own attitudes are getting in your way a lot more than anything anybody (young or old, male or female) happens to post in an online forum.
I'm giving you your own words back. (Which, by the way,is actually pretty good advice.) "STOP being negative...just try to make a hit song and stop trying to discredit others. "
Go look in the mirror. That's the guy who's ultimately responsible.

bump

Sorry I can't comment. I have to wait 'til I'm old.

Hey, where's a "like" button when you need one? Kurt, you said exactly what I was thinking, including the comments about grammar and spelling.

Very well stated!

Greg

Quote Denis Leary (I guess an "old" person.)

“You're 16 years old, you don't know [naughty word removed] about [naughty word removed], and PULL UP YOU'RE PANTS!!!”

I am not aware of what started this rant but do agree that how you have gone about expressing your frustration isn't going to endear you to us "older" writers.

I really doubt that anyone was pointing you out in particular but when it comes to "younger" music, IMO, the craft of lyric writing has suffered. They really do not write them like they use to.

Later.

Hi JP:

Sorry you believe that "older folks" are "on your case." Just remember, we were young once and you can bet your boots we thought our elders were creating stuff meant for cows and antelopes... LOL! Now, we've "morphed" into geezers ourselves.

You are not alone my friend. We are all frustrated with the state of the music industry today. Stick around, share "war stories" with us, listen to some of our "tall tales" and be open to hearing about our experiences and disappointments. Every now and then, we even have something upbeat to pass along.

Most of all, remember that life is short... so do your best to enjoy every moment of it. Can't wait to hear some of your music.
Welcome to JPF.

Dave Rice

i wish u old guys wood leave us kids alone an show some respec.

Ben--

You and I are too OLD to be believable, with the new generation of DIGITAL WRITERS--They need to live through the ANALOG learning process, then THEY will gain knowledge with a few ideas at at time--AND THEY WILL ACTUALLY LEARN HOW IT WAS DONE, THE HARD WAY--[color:#FF0000]ONE BRICK AT A TIME[/color]-- AND IN TIME BEGIN TO RESPECT AND/OR , DEFEND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN, WHILE THEY ARE MATURING AS A WRITER AND PERSON--IN MY TWO YEARS HERE, I FEEL I AM A BETTER WRITER--WITH ALL THE JPF HELP, AND NOW I REALIZE HOW LITTLE I REALLY KNOW ABOUT OUR EVER CHANGING CRAFT--SONGWRITING--REMEMBER, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND, AND KEEPS GOING AND GOING AND…………..GOING! WHAT SEEMS BRAND NEW HAS COME BACK AGAIN MANY TIMES, PERHAPS IN A DIFFERENT 'KEY" OR WITH A 'DIFFERENT BEAT'------THAT SAID: I WAS A JAMES DEAN, ELVIS TYPE WHEN I WAS 21: THOUGHT I KNEW IT ALL………………THEN………!!!!!!

JUST WRITE ON YOU-ALL…..AS WE LEARN!

Mackie

i'm glad you wrote what i was thinking Kurt,my authorwriteus is really getting to me today.

I'm not sure if I'm old or young.

What's even more confusing is Neil Young and Gary Oldman. I mean, do they just always stay the same, or what?

Puzzling...

Mark,

What about Nicole Kidman - I'm not sure what's going on with that!

Andy

I feel as I get older, I do develop a more natural state of grumpyness, trying to convert the negativity into a driving force to get things done.

You should try it, actually, being a lil' grumpy and painting a lil' with black can make you feel better, and release some of that built up tension :-)

Yep Neil stays young and Gary stays Old.

hmmmm

From one young guy to another...

Best to have a few credits under your belt before ranting. Even better to hold your rant altogether.

Why?

It's the "older" guys that tend to have the keys to the gate, as they've been there, done that.

"why is it that the older guys always try there best to discredit" - songwriterjp

What do ya mean,"older" JP ? That really gets my goat. Now I need a drink. I think I'll mix up a boilermaker and put on a Gene Autry flick. Then maybe I'll gum down a few pretzels. Darn young whippersnappers.

John

Pray tell, young man, how many deals have you had?

John Sebastian of The Lovin' Spoonful wrote a song once than had the line "why must every generation think their folks are square." What you're saying here is nothing new. And someday, when you're older and possibly wiser, you'll may look back at this post and be like us, the type folks who understand what Montgomery Gentry meant in their hit "Back When I Knew It All." Then you can come on JPF and apologize to us oldies.

Harry
55 and growing more ancient every minute

It's a good question and the absolute truth for most kids. Especially ones who are NOT songwriters or musicians.
Too be a musician or serious songwriter and NOT listen to or like your parents music or any old/older music is self destructive and insanely wrong.
Now as a music LOVER it's a discovery, If you only love and listen to "Your" music then you'll discover you are not a lover of music but only your kinda music.

This does not mean you still cant be rich & famous in the music business. When you are your limitations musically are absolutely a non factor. But if you are one of the millions who don't make it big, you are only left with what you really have your skills and your real love for "music"
Also to be a serious songwriter or a lover of music and to NOT find and listen to music of today is almost just as bad.
I say almost because everything has been done already in the past, just like with movies accept for the technology.
But how can you really expect a music biz deal/job today and not be on top of current things somewhat...

Funny this is the third thread that briefly touched upon something I was writing a article/thread about...

I took a quick look around and wondered where the post is that criticized and or set JP off? On this post while he may have not worded it perfectly I cant disagree with the overall thought. If I were young and living/working in "my time" I wouldn't want to be knocked down all the time. Also more importantly to me I would greatly desire the respect of my peers,adults and the older generations.

But there's the key word, "respect" how will you get it from everyone? Not by attacking the elders They say you learn patience with age, but there are "types" of patience and I had a ton more of a certain type when I was younger....

Mike, it's in the Songwriting Forum, first titled "5 songs one fee you keep 50% of the rights". Now titled "Thank you and hope we meet one day in music".
He initially started a thread after only 7 visits to JPF offering to write 5 songs with lyrics, melody, and provide a demo at a cost of $1000 and 50% of copyright to any songwriter who may be interested. As predicted, he got a few comical replies. He left a link to his web site, but it's not worth trying to find.

He deleted his offer and subsequent comments.

Hey bro,

I know where your coming from but I would have to say your in the wrong claiming this. No matter what part of life you talk about you will always run into people who want to spoil your dreams/plans. Not just music. You will also find that a lot of young guys will do the same. There are some on here who wouldn't give me the time of day on here and did the same to me. There are also a lot of the older crowd who have really help me to. Tampa Stan, Glynda, Roy, Substudio Mike, Makie, Doug Murphy, Donna Marilyn to name a few. There are also many others. There are also both good and bad in here form the younger crowd. The worst thing that I did was speel off a rant that many didn't appreciate. I did apologize for my actions and not all truly accepted it but most forgot about and have helped me understand the craft better. The best thing to do is to ignore those who aren't helping. Not get mad about it. This really will only get to you, not them. Most people in here are trying to give you advice and not poke at you but you will always find those silly people who do. Trust me when I say I'm not picking a side but relax man tis all guda. This is a music forum some seem to think its a hit forum and have forgotten what music feels like you might already know the ones. Does it matter? Nope. Keep your head up, believe in yourself. Take it or leave it ciao

Very well said Aaron.

Once had a critique that tore me a new one. This person went up and down on my lyric with not one single nice thing to say.

My first thought was to fight back but after thinking about it I just replied, "So you didn't like it then?"

There is no way to please everyone and if you take yourself and your post to seriously then you are doomed.

Douglas

Douglas, Do you mind if I use your quote as a hook? "So, you didn't like it then?" Pleasant and perfect response to ANY comments that bring me down. Maybe I'll try to sing it.

No matter what age/experience/creativity/stupidity level each of us have, hopefully this site is for helping. But like with siblings it can be fun to have a big tussle once in a while. If you are to young to know "tussle" it's the big screaming/shoving/hitting/sitting/almost no holds barred fight that tried to happen without drawing the attention of an adult taskmaster. When that failed, would have each participant claiming "It wasn't ME."

And the truth is, these discussions have added many,many ideas for my songs.

Pam

Go ahead Pamela and post what comes out of it.

Yeah! At 53, soon to be 54, I know the word.

Have fun.

Douglas

I'm an older guy, and one thing I learned a long time ago, is not to be whiner in this business. A negative comment is one that is intended to hurt you, and I would criticize anyone for doing that. But, a critical comment that is intended to help you might seem negative, but it should be considered a gift, and a positive thing. No one owes you anything. Also, remember everyone one has an opinion, and Chris Keaton, a prominent songplugger in Nashville, said in an interview where the interviewer asked him about his opinion on "critiques", and he said that they have their place, a certain value, but "everyone has an opinion", he said, and quite often critiques are way off the mark.

When I seek critiques, what I look for is a consensus. However, on a forum like this, it might not be as accurate, because if a thread is going one way, others might join in the bandwagon of the way the thread is going, influenced by opinions of others.

I prefer critiques given to me where the ones doing the critiqueing haven't read other's critiques. It's not that people are not capable of giving a completely uninfluenced opinion, it's just that, well, I believe people are human, and I think a reaction that is completely independent of another's reaction gets at the truth better.

With that, then I look for "consensus" on certain points. If there is none, then it is just an "opinion". Hope this helps.