JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Anyone done a digital single cover song?

Hi Folks:

I often practice cover tunes but have never included one in a digital album or as a digital single. The question I'm asking involves the fact that digital music is sold differently via a multitude if methods. Getting a mechanical license for a CD is fairly straightforward... just hit the ball and run the bases as you pay your money up front.

But how does one estimate how successful a single digital cover song will be... thus how many "copies" one will pay thru the Harry Fox Agency or other mechanical licensing resource?

I don't care much for "promoting" someone else's work but it's often been said that you may be able to draw more "fans" by doing covers. The digital aspect does not seem so straightforward when it comes to mechanical rights. There is not much in print and just a little snippet or two can be gleaned from the internet.

Thanks for any "enlightened" responses from those with actual experience or expertise in this facet of the music biz. Maybe 'ol MAB will "weigh in" soon.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

Interesting topic. Hope Marc, will help on this one. He is a real diamond here, shinning the light on the music industry for all of us.

Dave aka GARTH

Petra

According to Harry Fox, it is 9.1 cents per permanent download. I imagine they (Harry Fox) charge an administration fee as well.

http://www.harryfox.com/public/DigitalLicenseslic.jsp

Check out Limelight. They provide bulk licensing services for covers and have a relationship w/ CD-Baby:

http://www.songclearance.com/

http://members.cdbaby.com/partnerships/limelight.aspx

Hi Mike, Bryan and Petra:

Thanks for your input. I'm gonna have to absorb and research your replies 'cause they raise even more questions.

Mike, if the Harry Fox route is true... it becomes an unlimited liability doesn't it?

Bryan, I was under the impreession that Limelight got into deep dish manure with the RIAA for participating in illegal downloads and/or filesharing??? (Hope I'm wrong!) Bulk licensing sounds interesting if it becomes only the matter of an affordable, one-time payment. I'll visit the links you provided and was unaware that CDBaby had "partnered" with limelight. (Maybe I'm thinking of limewire... forgive my undernurtured brain... LOL!)

Petra, let's hope we hear from "the Mabinator." He's almost as good a resource as "foot-man Dunbar." Did you say "Garth?" Wow, I take that as a significant compliment.

Regards,

Dave

Back again after visiting the link you provided, Bryan... re: songclearance.com. This is obviously not limewire, thank goodness. After reading the FAQ section, it appears that a "digital only" recording would end up being a real liability if one underestimates the number of digital sales such a recording might create. (Mine would probably be a big fat zero but I can't afford to risk my pitiful, ever-shrinking 401k... LOL, just for the privilege of singing someone else's song.)

I didn't officially enter their site or attempt to put a pencil to the numbers but I think you've given me a good reason to scrap that idea. (Darn... and it was sounding so good!)

Thanks again,

Dave

Humm,
If you covered a song that is under copyright you first would have to purchase a license from the copyright holder, most likely a Publisher.

If you were going to put this song on a site for sale and dwonload I assume the agreement with the download site would contain the information of where to send the royalities. Hopefully the Publisher would already have an agreement in place to cover this.

One way is to purchase the license for a certain number of downloads where all royalities from a download service would come to you until the number ran out. Not sure if that is possible. One would have to check on the particulars to see if it is even feasable.

Hi Ray:

Confusing, isn't it? This problem does not seem to fit the mold of what was encountered and well described for CDs and "phonorecords" mechanical rights. I'm gonna keep investigating this topic to see if someone has gone through the entire process and has a reliable formula. To me, it's all about risk vs. reward... and I don't have the resources to take many risks.

B-T-W... did your Publisher friend ever decide to get back into the game?

Regards,

Dave

Dave, I believe you are thinking of "Limewire", not "Limelight".

EDIT: Never mind. I see you've already got it covered.

Thanks, Kevin:

I need all the back-up I can get. This time, I discovered the error in my thinking... but next time, who knows? LOL!

Always good to hear from you.

Good Morning Bro Dave,
My Publisher has pretty much given up the Publishing Business. He has had Medicial Problems as has his wife so they are not too much active any more. He called me last month and said he fell and broke two ribs and just got out of the Hospitial. Occasionally he will hear from somebody and get excited again but that's about it.

I, my wife and I are going up to the Songwriter's Festival in Nashville the first week of June. I'm taking several CD's of my songs. Who knows, I might make a good contact or two. I really don't expect anything but it is an outing.

Ray:

Sounds like a fun trip. Somewhere in the past on JPF there was a checklist of sorts... on what to bring with you to Nashville as a songwriter. One thing for sure... lots of business cards. Getting the opportunity to give someone who really counts a CD is becoming difficult. Kevin Emmrich has made at least one excursion to Music Mecca under the tutelege of Marc Alan Barnette so he may remember where the checklist can be located at this site.

Good hunting. Hope you come back with a fistful of music contracts... or a wheelbarrow full of money.

Sorry to hear about your publisher friend's bad health.

In their FAQ they specify that downloads are lumped in with physical product, it's streaming (no permanent copy) and ringtones that are different. You would need separate licenses if you were releasing a physical product, but the rates for that are the same as downloads.

So for 1 song of a 3:30 duration (anything under 5 min) it'd be $0.091 (9.1 cents) per copy sold, so if you plan to sell 100 copies that'd be $9.10 plus $15 service charge, so $24.10 total for 100 copies, that if sold via iTunes US/CD-Baby you'd end up with a cut of around $63.70

$63.70
$24.10
------
$39.60 = profit if all 100 copies are sold.

If it looks like you're likely to go over the 100 you can then purchase additional licenses from them (at a reduced service charge, but the royalty is fixed).

Thanks Bryan:

My two CDBaby albums were so unprofitable I finally just got out the old six shooter and put them out of their misery... so, I guess my version of "The Sound of Silence" by Paul Simon will never see the light of day. Am I being short-sighted? Probably!
If I had John Lawrence Shick's resources and contacts... not to mention moolah, I'd go for it.

That begs the question: What if your digital single sells more than what you signed up for? How do they collect the amount due? Maybe they send Marc Alan Barnette to collect? Maybe that's why they call him the Mabinator?

Geez, my one shot at fame... shot to hell! Dang!

Bump!

Dave

Hey guys,

Sorry I missed this one. I have to be honest with you in that I don't know the answer of this one. I am not active as an artist and am not really involved with digital other than some songs on my web site. I am mostly one who works with other artists now but it is mostly on the creative side. If I do my job, they attract the intrests of others, publishers, most notably, that are involved in that section.

I am involved with something called "Indie Cconnect" which is an ongoing organization of writers, artists, publishers, pluggers, mostly independent buisness people that come from every walk of the music industry. There are people in the organization that are involved in the current digital age. They have a couple a week in Nashvlle (I do a once a month "Welcome to Nashville" workshop, and are now branching out around the country in chapter meetings.

There is a web site, www.indieconnect.com with a weekly magazine. You might check that out and see where it takes you. Outside of that, contact a representative of ASCAP, BMI or SESAC and find out their advice. They may forward you to someone that can be more help than I can.

My "Mabbinator" creditials are more from driving songwriters from writing boring songs than as a collection agency. Sorry not to live up to your low expectations, LOL!

MAB

Thanks, Marc:

If you should be at one of those fancy indie soire's... and if this subject should happen to come up... I hope you'll share the answer(s) with us.

Naturally, I knew you were not really the strong arm guy for the RIAA... I was just pulling your chain. Never fear... my expectations regarding you are first class... all the way.

B-T-W... my JPF "twin" Ray Strode is considering coming to Nashville sometime later this year. Would you please get all the lifeboats into the Cumberland River with the women and children aboard... LOL! Seriously, would you share the checklist of things to bring to Nashville for ambitious unknown songwriters with Ray?

Thanks,

Dave

Well Dave and Whom it may concern,
You are well read to advise Nashville to be on "It's Toes. The first time I was in Nashville there was a Terrible Plane Crash. Patsy Cline, Cowboy Copas, Hawkshaw Hawkins and one other was in the plane. It was in the papers.

But those who think I am just fluff, go find Johnny Cash's song Bad News. One I didn't write but.....

My wife and I came to Georgia in 1969. It was all Democrat. Now it is all Republician. Humm, I wonder...

BUT, I swear, I was no where near the Titanic when it sunk! But.... I am for all practical purposes Broke! If I could only turn some of my good luck into money. Back to the Salt mines!

Ray your twin, glued to your hip Dave, makes interesting remarks of you.

I mean if you are going to Nashville, best bring a good luck charm, the Bible, a priest, or minister, coach, life ring, oxygen tank, drive in a tank and wear an knights armor suit.

What I can make of all of this, you lost your mojo and need all the help you can get.LOL

God Luck, what dates are you going, I wanna make sure I am not there when it happens.

Petra

Ray,

Are you planning to sing at one of the hot spots Marc mentioned or are you just going to attend some workshops?

Hey Petra,
I'm taking songs as I am only a songwriter. I don't expect anything but will browse around the Songwriter's Festival and try to leave some CD'S of my songs with some interested parties. I don't know about the workshops as I am already pretty well up on all the in's and out's of the Music Business. Who knows. I will see when I get there. Really it is just an outing for my wife and I.

I will definitly NOT be singing at any of those Hot Spots. They will cool off pretty quickly if I am singing! I do sing on some of my demos but that is about it. Dave is getting up there. I am older than dirt.

Dave,

I will probably be around on Friday and then go to Atlanta on Saturday. Should be back around by Sunday afternoon. Am supposed to teach a class but don;'t know if I will be back in time. But I will be able to meet up with you at some point at the festival.

What you bring with you are:
Buisness cards,
CD's
And to collect the same from others.

Make sure they have your contact number and try to come away with at least 6 possible contacts.

That's what you bring.

MAB

Am I Confused on this story, isn't it Ray that suppose to be going to Nashville on the first week of June???

Ok, Morg,
I am taking plenty of Business Cards. I print, AND DESIGN my own in my Computer. My own pictures on them. Not my picture, other pictures I have taken.

Marc, must of lost his glasses because he keeps calling you Ray, Dave. Maybe you guys look alike? LOL

Petra,

You are right but I key on what I am asked, a lot of time the names get confusing. Look at his post:

"B-T-W... my JPF "twin" Ray Strode is considering coming to Nashville sometime later this year. Would you please get all the lifeboats into the Cumberland River with the women and children aboard... LOL! Seriously, would you share the checklist of things to bring to Nashville for ambitious unknown songwriters with Ray?"


I read the post, then look at the name of who the poster is. That is who I respond to. I am doing this at the same time I am doing about 4 constant forums on the Internet. So the fact that I get here at all is pretty amazing.

MAB

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Petra,

By the way, when I did that last night, I was just finishing up a "tour:" with a guy from Canada, then writing a song with two girls that live here as well as doing critiques. So sorry if I don't get all the names right. I live in a multi tasking world.

MAB

Hi Petra and Marc:

Gee whiz, you slow learners... (lol) didn't I tell you that ol Ray and I are "joined at the hip?" We are both ex-Navy folks who served our country during the same era and he lives near one of my favorite places in all the world, St. Simon's Island near Brunswick, Georgia. Talk about a special place... that's it.

Please pretend you're reading a blog from Andy Rooney or some caustic old codger when you read my posts. I'm trying to be funny, not mean... so here's a hug for both of you. (Not you, Ray!) Sailor's don't dare hug... especially nowadays!

Hey you made me smile, Marc!!!

Dave,

You don't give Bear Hugs to your fellow man like STAN LOL

Hey Roy kisses Frogs LOL

OOH Ray was looking forward to it. LOL

I picked up a long time ago you too are two peas in a pod. He said you are getting up there but he is old as dirt LOL


How old are you guys anyways?

Post deleted by Petra

Dave with Ray joined at the hip:

Cougar is a term now given to older women who date young men..here anyways in Canada.

Don't know what a older man dating a younger woman is called, fill me in.

P.

P.S: I better fill you in, Dave, you are going to Nashville first week of June, as you are glued to Ray's hip. LOL




This is tooo funny!

Petra,
I have to be honost with you. I, and my wife have been married for 47 plus years. BUT, I am ALWAYS looking for a Good Looking, Rich, very important, Blonde in a Red Convertible. Ya know any? Oh, well, foiled again! I think an Older man dating a younger woman is Called, dang it, a dirty old man. You think I'm gonna train another woman! Not on your life!

Train another wife? How long did it take? You kill me. Lots of Blonds in Hollywood, but they are looking for old rich men, 99 years old. LOL

Hey in Middle East they have tons of wives, what do you call them...?


Just to inform you Dave is coming with you on your trip as you two are joined at the hip. LOL

What is it with you old guys coming down here and stealing our women. It's bad enough we have to deal with these young artists hot dudes coming out of their woodwork now we have to deal with this old ancient antiques, (you know, these old fossils like the 31 year olds,) that come down here, impres the babes with their lilting tones and the whole "Hey baby, I'm a veteran, let me show you my tatoo" kind of stuff.

Man you make it hard on us down here.

MAB

Hello Everyone:

It is obvious to me that I have "PoGo'd" myself on my own thread. "We have met the enemy and it is us!... LOL!"

It's that doggone Petra's fault, though... she insists on asking old men questions we don't understand. I thought for sure that she realizes that I am a "choirboy" with a cherubic smile and a melody in my heart... yeah, right!

Ancient antiques.... Doggone it, MAB... you have pierced my wounded soul with your wit. Nope... no tatoos on this pristine mass of flesh... just a couple of war wounds from that Gal in the Red Convertible Ray was mentioning.

It does help to open up a can of levity every now and then, eh?
Happy Wednesday, everyone. It's lookin' like rain here in West Mayberry... and we need it. Makes me feel so bad about the folks in Memphis. Dry is probably a forgotten word there... but it sure has meaning here and further west. Talk about brush fires!

G'day, mates... as Graham Henderson would have said.

Psssstt Dave. (I hope I am talking to you now) I am an OLD antique too. I am 53. Performing with kids who think oldies but goodies are those "old guy's" Rascall Flatts first album. LOL!

MAB

Marc:

Message received but you have yet to discover that terrible malady they call "old age." I'm so tired after typing that first sentence, I've gotta go find my rocking chair! LOL!

Sorry for the delay, I've been signing autographs down on the town square here in West Mayberry. Fame is such a bothersome thing!

Don't forget to have those "digital folks" attempt to answer my question about how to properly get permission and pay for a single digital only cover song.

(Thanks, Petra, for reminding me to answer Marc.) I hope you are not sending me an invoice for secretarial work!

Have a good day, everybody. Take time to do a good deed and transfer that Boy Scout Token from the left pocket to the right pocket. (Just like I do everyday!)