JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum There's Never Been - collab with Dannyk1 New Vid added 8/30!

Well, this is how you co-write a song, do it in the facebook chat while playing Scrabble!! Danny thinks I can expand my vocabulary this way and think fast and write out of my comfort zone!! LOL!! Danny wrote a good portion of this and it shows! I loved making the melody and chording it and of course singing it to Ian Ferrin's beautiful piano track, he makes my melody sound so amazing!! Also, thank you to my friend Ricky Layne for mixing and always being so kind!!


THERE'S NEVER BEEN on SoundClick


THERE'S NEVER BEEN on Reverbnation


Video of "There's Never Been" on YouTube


There's Never Been
by
Danny Ketcherside and Tammy
© 2010



There's never been a moment or another place in time
That could ever match the feeling of you here by my side.


There's never been a breath that I would ever want to hold
Than swimming deep into your depths to quench my lonely soul



(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires that burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me



There has never been a kiss placed so softly on my face
That traced a path to my lips for our mouths to embrace

There's never been a burning need or strong desire
That burns with such abandon to set my soul on fire



(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires that burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me



(Bridge)
There will always be a dawn, you will always turn me on
Thoughts of you are on my mind
Thoughts of you and me that last throughout eternity
And spending it one moment at a time



(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires that burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me
oh, a love like you for me

Hey there Tams#4....Reminds me of Elton John...seems I can hear his voice singing along....very nice! I would like to hear a cello in there, as well....maybe a violin, too. Good stuff!!
Your song has me inspired! Thanks........ -Tom

Hi Tammy/Danny,

This is very beautiful on MANY levels.
You & Danny have written a cool song.
And once again, Ian proved he is "The Bomb"

Tom want a cello/violin
I want to hear...fires burn within sung in harmony right after the word THAT...




(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires THAT burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me
oh, a love like you for me


GREAT JOB !


Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

Hey guys! You have another wonderful song here. Ian's music is beautiful and backs up sweet lyrics and a wonderful melody. Congratulations and keep playing online Scrabble while writing. I think that sounds like a fun way to work on a co-.

Great collab everyone. Very, very nice. Tammy, your voice is like soft butter. Piano is great. I would love to hear this with a full production to fill out the sound. That would be awesome. Still, it's great as is.

Stevie

I envy you two in being able to write such a touching love song. I can only manage to write odd obscure stuff, so bravo for that alone.

I think the music fits really well with the lyric. I also think Tammy sounds really nice on this.

If there was anything that stood out for me it was the line: "you will always turn me on" in the bridge. The rest of the lyric is very poetic and romantic and it seems like something else should be said there. Maybe I'm the only person in the universe who would hone-in on this, so take it with a grain of salt.

It's a very nice song. Good work!

Quite lovely. Nothing more to say.
Vic

Tom,

Elton!! Yeah!!

We did try strings, but the piano track is so emotional and well played, that canned strings don't sound right, If I had a way of getting someone to play them, I would, because I did want strings, but we all agreed that the strings would need to be played by a human with a love for Ian Ferrin's piano playing!!

Thanks for the listen!!

Tammy

You guys have written and brought to life a very beautiful song here, it's great all the way around..and Danny I know how this is from your heart and how you feel about some special lady and you have really given us a wonderful, heartfelt, loving song..you should be proud of this one...love the music, just great song all around....

glyn

Hi.This is the first song I have listened to since I joined. I must say, it is a lovely song in every way. I don't know anyone who was involved in this song, but hope to get to know you all soon.

Who knows, we may work together, one day.

Best wishes Helen.

This is really pretty, Tammy, with some gorgeous chord changes. And I love your vocal and Ian's piano.

The "turn me on" part also stuck out at me a little. Also, these lines:

There's never been a breath that I would ever want to hold
Than swimming deep into your depths to quench my lonely soul

Seems like "ever" should be replaced with something like "more" - though it wouldn't sing as well.

Very close, imo. I think it's good to work that fast and get 99% of it - but then spend a little time fine-tuning. Is definitely worth the effort here.

Scott

Very nice, pretty song! Great feel and lovely voice.
Lots of nice lines and images...

On the overall song side it works naturally as it's well put together. Great musical bridge change..

The thing that stands out a little is the third lines melody.
Also that the chorus feels more like a pre-chorus.
Since the first two lines move along slow and absorb the slight change could come more on that third line.. Giving it a pre-chorus vibe.

Songs dont all need a pre-chorus, but if absent they need an extremely effective chorus to hop to. This chorus does not have that. Still great work, and Tammy you find very nice cool things to go to melodically. Don't be afraid to reach out and try some other things, stretch a little more and more this way or that way.

This line struggles the most
"There's never been a love like you for me"

One big tip, or help would be start thinking "Rhythm" more in your melody and singing. You have the "flowing" aspect down real well..

All the best guys
Good work!
Mike

PS- Oh yes I know how much easier it is to say than do
I hardly can or do anymore... Tammy you just listened to my song "Taking On Forever" It's actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about. My verse music is the same throughout no pre-chorus change... I start out with a soft spacious flowing melody on the 1st lines then the entire rhythm of my words change on the last lines of the verse. Completely change..

I picked that up from countless countless songs, but from nobody more or more effectively than Stevie Wonder.

Play around!

Hi Calvin,

I'm happy to see that you dropped by to listen to our song. I can't speak for Tammy, but I enjoyed my part in writing the lyric. It was a pleasure working with Tammy on this one. Once the lyric was finished, Tammy was the driving force in bringing it together. The harmonies you speak of are an intriguing thought. Glad you enjoyed the song. Hopefully we will be working together on many more.

Thanks for the kind words.

Danny

Great track guys welldone! My only nit would be the piano for me needs a bit more body in the low register. This would give a much warmer sound. Maybe add a bass guitar in the mix as well. That said this is a very well written song.

Nice one folks

Thanks Jen,

But I've gotta watch the Scrabble thing. She whipped me pretty bad the last game!

The song came together pretty good with Tammy's ability to coordinate things. Everyone played their part and things worked out nicely. I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out.

Thanks again,

Danny

There's never been a moment or another place in time
That could ever match the feeling of you here by my side.


There's never been a breath that I would ever want to hold
Than swimming deep into your depths to quench my lonely soul



(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires that burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me

I like the chorus but don't love it. I thought "lonely soul" on the last line before the chorus should have been vocally stronger and higher to lead into the chorus. Maybe it was the chord change from the verse to the chorus--just didn't elevate enough for me, although it was lovely.


There has never been a kiss placed so softly on my face
That traced a path to my lips for our mouths to embrace this line..so-so for me


There's never been a burning need or strong desire
That burns with such abandon to set my soul on fire



(chorus)
With your warm breath upon my skin
I feel your fires that burn within
I look into your eyes and see
There's never been a love like you for me



(Bridge)
There will always be a dawn, you will always turn me on not fond of this part...I was hearing "wrong" as a rhyme.
Thoughts of you are on my mind
Thoughts of you too many "thoughts of" here and me that last throughout eternity
And spending it one moment at a time

like the chording in the bridge

With such an intimate song like this every line, every thought has to count. I think it's close but not there yet. Lyrically it needs to be tweaked to wring out every emotion. The piano is lovely and Ian is money but I'm feeling it needs more low end somehow. That could be bass notes on the piano or cello...something to give it more bottom end because the whole thing is all mid-range.

Singing is wonderful as usual.

Great start.

Zeek

Calvin,

agree with you about Ian and I am so happy you liked the song and gave it a listen, I am always happy to see you!!

Tammy

Yes Glyn,

I am very proud of the quality of the vocals and music. I'm very happy to be associated and to do my part. The outcome is nice and yes the lyric comes from the heart.

Thank you very much,

Danny

Hey Scott,

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying about the more and ever thing. I did think of a way to get around the ever thing but it may be more trouble than it's worth because when you're begging for musicians and singers. It's normally a one shot gunfight! It is hard to do a lot when you have limited resources.


Danny

Very pretty song Tammy. You know that I'm not much at critiquing music. I just like to play it, but your temporary tattoo turns me on you wild woman. Ben

Wendy,

It is my belief that your envy is misplaced. Your songs are, for the most part, very touching and bring out a great deal of emotion. Obscurity is a relative term; what is obscure to one is concrete to another, so on and so forth. Many of the songs I have heard you sing bring out a myriad of emotions. Take, for instance, You Don't Love Me Anymore, The Girl In The Box and Hope, all are very powerful songs. All of them bring out their own brand of love. It is hard to write a "love song" when you are not truly in love.

Tammy does do a very good job with the vocal. She also designed the chord structure that the piano track was set to. She has become quite the composer in her own right. I have watched her grow in her abilities over the last year and a half and am very proud of how far she has come. By sheer determination, she has been able to bring the music, that she hears in her mind, to life.

We all know of Ian's prowess when it comes to tickling the ivory and ebony keys. Someone mentioned Elton John earlier in this thread and rightfully so. He does a masterful job with this piece and I am proud to be associated with the likes of both.

I have put together a video of stills that is set to this song and it will be coming out soon if we are able to post it on YouTube, in the format I used to encode it.

There have been a few comments on the use of the line "You will always turn me on". This line was used to build on the lines, "With your warm breath upon my skin" and "I feel your fires that burn within", in the chorus, in an attempt to extract a deeper sense of the intensity of feeling that I wanted to convey. Many may think that I was trying to take the song in a sexual direction, but this is not the case here. I was going for depth of emotion and intimacy.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to convey your impressions of this song.

Danny

Thanks Stevie!

I loved the lyrics, tempo and emotional intimacy of this song. The vocal was also spot-on and really did a masterful job conveying the song's message. I especially loved the musical changes in the bridge and felt that it was one of the stronger components of the song as a result. It accomplished what bridges are supposed to accomplish, which is a rare feat. My only nit is so small it's hardly worth mentioning, especially in light of how strong this song truly is, but like Scott I had a bit of a bump with the use of the word "than" in the fourth line. My computer would have placed a green line under it suggesting that it might not be entirely grammatically correct. I loved the connection of these two lines, however. Very powerful.

Very good song with tremendous potential and I wish you nothing but success with it.

Jennifer,

Thanks for listening to this stuff from the beginning to the end, glad you like how it turned out. Danny is way good as Scrabble, so writing is a good way to ignore his winning streaks!! LOL!!

Tammy

Stevie,

Yes, I always hear songs fully produced in my head, but am lucky I can get what I get. Glad you like the "buttah"...LOL!!

Tammy

Yo Tam...love the line holding my breath while swimming in the depths of your soul...classic lyric girl, and Danny excellent music on this, although I miss that harpsichord.....MFB III

Wendy,

I find I can only write certain stuff also, it is all about how our experiences register with our heart, souls and minds. When I want other types of lyrics, I go looking for them if I can't write them myself. I love your lyrics and couldn't write anything like it if I tried.

This was written line by line, one person challenging the other to outdo their line. Fun stuff.

I understand the "turn me on" seeming unromantic, but I'm no expert on being in love, but I imagine that you would feel this way about someone if you were and it wouldn't seem like an odd thing to say.

Glad you liked the song!

Tammy

Hi Helen,

I feel honored that you would choose our song to get your feet wet. I am very glad you like the song. It is the best song that I have been a part of so far and I hope to be a part of many more to come. I also hope to get to know you soon and it would be a pleasure with you.

Thanks for your kindness,

Danny

Really good love song. Well played and sung. Good job by all involved!

Hi Tammy and Danny,
I think you hit the mark on this one. It is very pretty. The words are lovely, the singing, piano, everything... I can see Zeek's point about maybe shortening things a tiny bit, it could be done.

I totally enjoyed it


Kim

Hi Mike and thanks taking your time to give such an insightful critique of this song.

I'm no wizard or anything when it comes to song structure and don't know much about the whens and wheres concerning "pre-choruses" and the like. Most of my lyrical experience involves the standard verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus structure. I have written some ballads and a few with tags at the end, but that is abut the extent of my knowledge when it comes to structure. I didn't write the whole lyric but did have a big part in it. The melody, vocals, chording, and composition is all Tammy.

I'm kind of surprized that you would point out the line "There's never been a love like you for me" as struggling the most. It is one that I think is very effective. Live and learn!

Thank you for your help. If we can get the people involved to give it another go, maybe some touch ups will be in order.

Thanks again,

Danny

Hi Danny

You are welcome and thanks!

No actually I meant that line was struggling phrase wise, melodically. It sounded & felt awkward not the lyric aspect.
Especially since all the attention song wise is landing on it and being geared towards it. That's a payoff line. It has to be very smooth and rewarding, easy feeling and natural.

I think Tammy does a wonderful job on this aspect of things overall. She is a NATURAL at it for sure... Part of the process or we can call it the game or the craft is the combining of your natural abilities with your inspiration then on top of that your creativity. Then comes the WORK part.
I let my natural abilities and instincts come in and play around first. Then I challenge them!!

Fortunately not every one faces that dilemma or has to face it.
Some write to write, and do to do. It's much healthier that way and more productive as well. The only way to improve and grow is too keep doing, BUT when you keep doing, songs can be similar. Similar things or if not pushing harder in some way or direction then the growing slows down... Tams I'm just talking in general not specifically to you.
Its more for everyone, post a new song about every other day and see if anyone notices a vast improvement or change. It's just like dieting... See somebody after six months of NOT seeing them and EVERYBODY notices...

This song is tricky as it starts with the title so therefore kinda starts with the chorus in a way. It has good changes in all regards but only a knock out punch stops it from being more effective or hit material.

I believe all you guys have this potential that is why I'm bothering you's LOL

All the best
Mike

Post deleted by Dannyk1

Tammy, Danny, and Ian,

I enjoyed this song very much. Good lyrics Danny, and great piano Ian.

Tammy, the vocal was right on imo as far as timing, pitch, everything. Great job. You have truly found a place that is good for you and your fans. (including me!)

I second Mike's opinion. Continue to challenge yourself in new directions when you can. You will only grow from it!

Hey Danny, I seem to have the opposite problem. I can write some decent pre-choruses and tag lines but many times the chorus eludes me!

Ricky

Vic,

A man of few words, but the ones you do say are always appreciated!!

Tammy

Glynda,

I am very happy that you like this song and I always appreciate the listen and your support!! Danny is a wonderful writer and I am so happy to be able to put his words out there so that folks can enjoy his talent!!

Tammy

Helen,

Thank you for stopping in, I am honored. Roy has made me feel as if I know you and for me...I am happy to see you here and look forward to seeing more of you.

Tammy

Scott,

I am always so happy to get your take on things. I do trades to get music, so I do them once and dream of changes, I try my best to get them as close as I can, but re-works are not possible in the way I have to go to get any music to my songs, so I am very, very grateful to have what I have and am happy you can enjoy it , I use the suggestions to make the next song better...so hope you will comment on that one too!!! LOL!!

Tammy

Danny and Tammy,


Wow I'm really a latecomer to this one. I'm so glad I didn't miss it. Absolutely beautiful. The lyrics are extremely heartfelt and Tammy--you have a beautiful voice and between your vocals and the melody as Scott mentioned--you did it proud. Great job by everyone involved. Take care,
Roger

Mike,

I want to say that I always look forward to your comments and I understand and appreciate the "rhythm" idea which has been on my mind lately.

I care about you and have great respect for you and I just want to address one thing and it is meant in kindness, but it upset me a little, so I will mention it with the best of intentions for your idea, I mean no disrespect to you in any way.





I think making a blanket statement is dangerous sometimes because it does come over as not being considerate to some and in turn has hurt my feelings, but I'm an over-emotional girl anyhow.

I can't imagine that this subject came out of the blue, knowing me and my postings had to be the kick off for such a topic, I understand you didn't mean to single me out, but hard for me to not see myself in it.

I believe if you could ever understand the process I go through to get music, you may understand why I post often.

If I fade away for even a month, I am forgotten and not taken seriously, I need to be around to be remembered, plain folks like me have to keep a stream of noise or we disappear in a crowd.

I need musicians to hear me and know I'm serious, and hard working and to get to know me and hopefully build up a desire to work with me in some way. So I create a presence and my heart and soul goes into EVERYTHING I do!!

I work and sing just as hard for Andy, Vic, Zeek, Ricky or anyone who ever dares to see me and let me find my dreams through them and for that I am very grateful and I can't imagine that any of them would ever tell you I don't give more than 100 percent every single time.

I work in many genres and try to not sound the same and it isn't anything that I get accused of yet..

I think my work ethic is a good thing for me to accomplish these goals.

I'm sorry to have to point this out to you and maybe this is more appropriate for a pm, but I would like for everyone to not think that I'm trying to put a bunch of crap (pardon my words folks, and Mike, I know you did not say this or even mean such a thing, this is just a statement by me)) repeatedly on the board for attention, it is all done with reason and with every fiber of my being.

Everyone is different in how they approach this board and everyone's music means something special to them and only them, so I am sure how a person posts and works on music fits what they want and what they dream to accomplish.


I am not typing this in any anger, just tears, because it means lots to me how people perceive me, but please understand I am only airing my opinion and respect you very much to air yours.

Maybe some will understand me better now.

Mike, I do appreciate you coming in here repeatedly, I am always happy to see you and hope you will visit other songs of mine.

Tammy

Tams Tams Tams

I'm sooooooooooo sorry. I did not mean too hurt you at all You have to trust me on this.

I'm doomed either way...
If I didn't say "Tams this is not specifically for you" how else can I explain it?

Let me explain a little clearer so you understand better too.
Danny has very little experience in a few ends of the whole process of songwriting and pitching and shop talk. He was the only one at the time responding to the thread/conversation. So a little back & forth with him that's all.

So I was sharing knowledge and experiences OVERALL with him and please remember and I forget this as well, until it's pointed out to me in a PM or a completely different thread...

I'll get "Mike I read or remembered what you told so & so about there song"

I often forget I'm a moderator here and often people confuse me with a mentor. Maybe it's the way I behave or offer different things in so many areas I relate too. So I'm always teaching and preaching a bit, sorry for that. I do want to genuinely help and the only way sometimes is to hit on certain points...

However I did SPECIFICALLY state to specifically NOT single you out. I was telling Danny and to WHOEVER may be reading along for whatever reason. There are snags and traps we ALL get into even
if they HAVE to be gotten into. Just like a heavy person has to be heavy before they can say "Hey I lost weight" Or I was skinny now I'm full of muscle"

My fault though! sorry! but please go back and read again all the places I mentioned your name and see how there is a compliment attached to every single one of them....

When I say "Not you but everyone" I mean not you but everyone..

The real point was....
Write or sing something EVERYDAY, show somebody else ANYBODY else it everyday. See how they react... See if they are completely genuine in there comments or compliments. It's not easy for anyone to see, hear or get. Put some space in between and see if they react a little different..
This can be done with food or a kiss or hug as well

No one is questioning your hard work and commitment...
Please forgive me for the misunderstanding Tam, I'll give you food and hug!!!

Again I apologize...

"I should have just posted a thread on the boards about my point, rather than thinking of it on your thread" and discussing it.

Actually you disappear for a spell at a time and don't post
that frequently, so again the point was a general one and not specifically aimed at you...

I'll wait till you come back and tell me we're good. Or you can let me stay upset like you are and get even LOL

Mike

Mike,

I am NOT nor will I EVER be "mad at you"...that is just rediculous.

I thank you so very much for caring enough to discuss this with me, it shows the type of person you ae, which I have known all along.

It is because this was posted on my thread that I couldn't help but take it personally, despite your words and I wanted my reasons known for what I do on the boards.

What you said hit me in my core insecurities...with this current song, many posted "Tammy, you sung well "as usual"...it made me feel good, but also that maybe I am becoming a bit boring and that has been on my mind while I read your post and I understand that has nothing to do with you in any way, but I am putting myself out there Mike with very little support and am defying many who encourage me to quit and who don't believe in me, so it doesn't take much to tap into the doubts.

I just needed to make sure I understood, I need solid ground...I have songs waiting to be posted and songs currently with musicians and songs looking for musicians and it takes lots of confidence in myself to keep moving forward, and so I needed to chat with ya.

I have nothing but friendship and caring in my heart for you and I thank you for clearing things up and helping me understand.

Tammy

K now I'm smiling again

Thanks, well I can tell you weren't mad, I just had to come back out you like a little kid would It worked at one time lol and i hoped the simplicity and honesty of it would work again.

I know you were more upset really and it's clear from your responses that there's a few things going with you. Some more than just this thread and my feedback. Could be other musical stuff and life in general.. Even just our own self doubts and worth can do a number on us. I can't begin tell you how worthless I have been feeling for quite some time... But often i find comfort here. I hope you do and can as well.
I know about your child and can only imagine the difficulties that can bring every waking moment. Also just this music stuff or doing ANYTHING at all.

I was just admiring a line from a Sinatra song the other day
"That's Life" It's says "Some people get there kicks just stomping on a dream" Boy oh boy what a line....

But I think you are liked loved and respected by many I'm sure and many here I know. Just give it all a chance to show..I like that you said "Encouraged to quit"
Anyone who does that to me just gave me more motivation than I could EVER thank them for...

I always say play into your strengths and build up your weakness.
That's while you'll get the "you sang lovely as usual" kind of comments...
Hey singing is second to last place on my "what i do well list"

Last night I decide for fun to search for myself on my Roku Box. the One that gives me Netflix. I found the band I was in a few months ago and got a big kick out of it.. here I was on the radio box player with my favorite all time artists and bands Funny right?
So last night I put my name and there I was... Oh man I was shocked.. Artist - Mike Caro
What was it? One song, Louis Twinn's "Angel In Her Room" the one he did with Ian... So there I am SINGING!!!! A couple of spots I was lovely just divine lol and others I wanted to hang myself now hearing it... Hey I'm not even an ARTIST! lol

But I have since improved also the key got me a bit, (excuse) but some truth to that...

I'll leave off with a direct piece of musical advice that can be used DIRECTLY into what you do,, It's not a theory..
But a trick, a secret..
Ready? Come up with and sing your verse melody to the first two lines etc... get it down recorded and stop.
Walk away for a day OR go just go listen to another song or so all together for a a little while and get another one in your head...

Then come back, do NOT listen to what you sang and come up with a completely different melody/phrasing all together. This works for me many times...
I make two songs out of one verse, that's how i get the extra hook.. ssssshhhh! Don't tell anybody.

Okay I'll talk to ya soon. I knew we were okay but had to hear it I get very emotional as well. At least 80% of me is... ssshhh on that too! LOL

Mike

Andy,

I'm so happy this appeals to you and we do understand, but we would need some REAL musicians to pull that off...I would love to get a track from Dave Gerard's cellist...ahhh, keep dreamin girl!!!

Tammy

Nat,

Always appreciate your suggestions and visits, I think what you have pointed out is appropriate and fair and it has been discussed, thanks!!

Tammy

Ben Willis,

I am flattered that you will listen to my songs and I appreciate the complements, I will keep them for when I'm feelin down...

Tammy

Bobby Wayne,

Thank ou so much, I am so glad you liked it, you made me want to go listen to it again myself!! I really appreciate your comments!!

Tammy

Tammy,

You're a great singer and it really comes through in this song. I think you've really raised the bar with this one. I hear a new depth and control to your performance and it's really something special. I also love the writing and melody.

"There's Never Been" is a personal favorite for me...

Bob

Hi Tammy,

You are truly growing as a songwriter. The melody on this is absolutely gorgeous. Your vocal is rich and moving. Lyrically imo it could use a wee bit more polish in spots.

I enjoyed this very much.

Josie