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#382958 - 04/11/03 04:38 PM Backing Up on CD  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 176
Alan Offline
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Alan  Offline
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I have a question on backing up large Bundle files from Cakewalk . I guess this might apply to any program.

Anyway I found reference on some boards to saving the stuff on to CD as DATA rather than AUDIO.

Can someone please tell me the difference?
And if I have Windows XP and Cakewalk HS XL will I get some prompt that will make me choose?

I'm not trying to Burn a CD, just trying to backup using CD as a temporary fix until I can get a big external hard drive.

Specifically on Cakewalk- would regularly saving during a session on my main drive as a .WRK file; then backing up every night on the CD drive as a .BUN be a prudent way to go about it.?

I've seen proponents both for and against .WRK's and .BUN's so I want to keep it all covered..

Question on the actual blank CDs I buy at the store, do they need to be anything special? My Windows XP Help notes says they need to be "writable". So, in the store is there going to be like a thousand different types to wade through? Like "Writable", "non-writable", "audio", "data", etc..?

Thanks

#382959 - 04/11/03 05:18 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Jean Bullock Offline
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Rewritable CDs can be used more than once. You can't add to them once the burning session is done but you can writer over them quite a few times. These are handy for backing up.

I have backed up both ways. Saved as audio and also saved the data.

Some people use back up programs to compress files and fit more on the media. I don't like that because I have to go through the back up program to get to it.

I like just being able to pop the CD in and take if from there.


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#382960 - 04/11/03 05:38 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Alan Offline
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JeanB-
You mean there is degradation of some kind if you save over things too often on the CD-RW's?

My intention is to save to the CD each night after doing recording/mixing/editing. As a temporary substitute for an external hard drive . Is this too often? I thought that if I'm going to save everything as data that its not "burning" . I must be getting something mixed up here.

thanks alot

#382961 - 04/11/03 11:46 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Larry Williams Offline
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Hi Alan,

(Hey thanks, Jean!)

Let me add my $.02 to see if it helps...

An AUDIO CD is one that you can play in your CD changer, your car CD player, your little CD walkman or your boombox. It contains AUDIO files, sometimes called .cda files (for "cd audio"). You can almost always ALSO play the audio through your computer.

A typical DATA CD is the type that you buy with a software program on it (like Cakewalk) where you pop it into your computer's CD drive and install one or more programs from it. You can also look at the files on it using Windows Explorer or from "My Computer". It can contain just about any type of file that can be read by your computer - not just audio files. It will NOT typically play in your CD walkman or boombox.

As far as backing up your data (like song information), you would typically use the DATA CD simply known as a CD-R or "blank CD".

If you were sure everything was done with a song (final mix) and you wanted to give the song to someone to play in their boombox, you would then use the AUDIO CD format.

Both types of CD formats (AUDIO & DATA) can use the same physical CD that you would buy as a "blank" at many computer and office supply stores.

There IS such a thing as a "Music CD" that you will see on the shelves. Don't let it confuse you. I always tell people to ignore them as they offer absolutely NO advantage for music (or data). To simplify it a bit, they are simply more expensive and there is no benefit to you for your purposes. There are some very slight technical differences which aren't relevant to your needs - or to 98% of the other people who just want backup storage or to make audio or MP3 CDs. Consider it more of a marketing idea gone bad that makes them more expensive than other CDs.

You will want to buy what's called a CD-R (CD-Rewritable) for 99% of your normal uses. With these, you can backup your data or make audio cds. You can also use them over and over again until you put enough data on them that they fill up the CD. You could, for instance, backup each night's Cakewalk information on it - probably for several days until you fill it up. This is called a "multi-session" CD format and is an option with most CD burning software.

There is also a CD-RW format (CD-Read/Write) that you will see on the shelves. You can erase these and then write to them again. I rarely use these because regular CDs (CD-Rs) are so cheap now days that you can find them even at office supply stores for under $20 for 50 of them (less than 40 cents each). I've bought them for as little as 10 cents each in bundles of 100. When CD-Rs were costing $3-5 several years ago, there was more of a reason to use them.

If your PC has a CD burner built in, it probably has some type of CD burning software installed. Two very common programs for the PC are "EZ CD Creator" and "Nero" (there are also several free programs you can download from the Internet). Both of those programs will burn either DATA cds or AUDIO cds and should be fine for most of your purposes. With either program, you just pop a CDR in your burner, run the program and using an "Explorer-like" interface select the files you want backed up and away it goes (as a DATA CD format). If you need to restore, you just pop the CD back in and you will be able to read it with Explorer or by using My Computer and drag the files back to where you want them. It's really pretty easy once you've done it.

Just remember that for backing up your files from Cakewalk (or any other program), use a DATA format and then you can read them back easily. I don't know Cakewalk, so I can't comment on the difference between a .BUN and a .WRK file. Either (or both) could be backed up to a CDR, however.

There are many other things which can make this relatively simple process complicated, but I wanted to make sure I just gave you the real basics so you understand that it is very simple with these newer programs.

------------------
Larry
www.audibleresponse.com

[This message has been edited by Lwilliam (edited 04-11-2003).]

#382962 - 04/12/03 12:30 AM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Alan Offline
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Larry-
thanks- One last thing. You mention CD Burner. How does that differ from the CD drive I have in my PC tower? I mean I see most people talk about their CD 'burners' and that makes sense, but I thought that was for Audio for listening/testing in CD players like boombox, walkman, etc. ( I don't have a CD burner yet)

Can't I just direct something to save Data in the D: drive and have this CD-RW in it? This last detail still escapes me.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Alan (edited 04-11-2003).]

#382963 - 04/12/03 12:29 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Larry Williams Offline
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Hi Alan,

There are two basic types of CD drives:

1. a CD "reader" drive - this is basically the same type of CD drive that's in a boombox and will read both AUDIO and DATA formatted CDs. Older PCs have these types of drives installed in them.

2. a CD reader/writer ("burner") - most newer PCs come with one of these. Older PCs like mine only had the CD reader type of drive installed.

If your PC has a USB port on it (almost all PCs built in the last 3-4 years have two of them), then you can buy what's called an "external USB CD burner". These cost anywhere from $80-150. If you're running Win98, or XP, they're pretty much "plug and play". That's what I bought for my own PC and it works just fine. They are very simple to install and operate and will show up on your Windows Explorer as either drive D:, E: or F: depending on how many other drives you have.

If you're handy with the inside components of your PC, you can replace your internal CD reader drive with a drive like #2 above and mount it internally. You could just swap out your present CD reader drive with a read/write type of drive.

Once you've installed a CD burner drive, you will still need to use a program specifically for burning files to that CD drive. You can't just drag files from Explorer (or the Desktop) to a CDR in it. That's the function of programs like Nero and EZ CD Creator - to burn files to those types of drives. A CDR is not the same format as a hard drive which is why it takes a special program to burn files to them.

Does that clear it up?



------------------
Larry
www.audibleresponse.com

#382964 - 04/12/03 04:56 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Alan Offline
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Yes I see-

So its not like just putting a floppy disc in the A: drive and saving it . Thats what I was going to say before to clarify this for me.

I think I will just get another hard drive first, then save for a CD burner when I'm really going to make Audio CD's for testing mixes

thanks alot

#382965 - 04/12/03 10:24 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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jeff2 Offline
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buy a dvd burner you can hold more data etc.... 349 gets you an extrnal dvd burner made by lacie. it is usb 2 but backwards compatiable with usb 1 or you can connect with firewire. If your computer came with windows xp I would almost bet that it has a cd burner. I was 14 years old when I first added my first cd burner with windows 95 and a scuzzy card for my hp scanner with a whopping 200 mhz amd processor. Before that my other computer was running windows for workgroups 3.11.

Something to really think about alan is a newer computer if you do not that will come with a cd burner and a larger hard drive. You are talking about 400- 500 for a hard drive and a burner.

Here is a handy link that will help keep your pc in better working condition.
http://www.pcpitstop.com/

run the full tests but ignore the pop ad that comes.

#382966 - 04/12/03 11:58 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Larry Williams Offline
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Santa Clarita, CA USA
Yes, that's actually a good idea since many of the new DVD burners will ALSO burn CDRs. That way, you could choose whether to burn a CD-R or a DVD-R.

The CD only holds 650MB generally (or 74 minutes of audio), although there are many 700MB drives out now. The DVD-R format is 4.7GB and will hold a 2 hour movie. Newer double-sided DVDs hold twice that, or 9.3GB.

The cost of admission IS a bit (ha!) higher, though. For just a little more than many hard drives, you could have a DVD-R burner that would never run out of space. I'm starting to see DVD-R burners as low as $299 and DVD-Rs are getting very close to the $2.00 each mark.

My next drive will definitely be a DVD-R because most of my DAW sessions run way over 1GB and a few have run over 2GB. It's a pain having to split your session up into 2 or more CDRs when backing up - I even have special backup software that makes it easier, but it's still more cumbersome than simply burning to a single DVD-R drive.

One downside to DVD-Rs at this point is that they don't burn nearly as quickly a CDRs. You can find CDRs that burn at 32x without a problem, but DVD-Rs are still in the 4X range with a few now advertising 6X.

So much to think about, huh?

Sorry if this just confused you more, Alan... [Linked Image]




------------------
Larry
www.audibleresponse.com

#382967 - 04/13/03 12:44 AM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Alan Offline
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Everyone- I really appreciate all this help. Forgive me but I am befuddled. Please clarify something for me. I have been reading and searching for this simple answer and I think the answer is so common-sense that no one addresses it!

All I want to do is have a good backup routine. One minute I think I should get and external hard drive and the next I think I should backup on CD. I know I will eventually do both...

I don't need to burn Audio CD's yet, I just need to backup as Data on to the CD drive. I have Windows XP, and a Dell 2350. Is everyone using the term "burning" generically ? Some say "save" and some say "burn". This is driving me crazy.

Like I said I have Windows XP and I'm just trying to back up big 300-400 meg. "bundle" files from Cakewalk.

I don't have a CD burner, just the average Dell CD-ROM thing on my PC tower.

Main question: can't I just pop in a CD-RW disc into the thing and save it? Just as if it were a disk in the A: drive or something? Do I really need CD burning software? This is temporary but I can't wait. (I am researching all my external hard drive options now)

A very simple answer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your patience

#382968 - 04/13/03 12:38 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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jeff2 Offline
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Alan you have to have a cd burner to burn the files or a dvd burner. A cd will hold 700 mb of data. You really are saving to a cd but you have to use programs to burn them there such as roxio that was mentioned earlier. Larry gave you some information about dvds. I am enclosing a link with reviews of some dvd drives. http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,110099,00.asp

#382969 - 04/13/03 02:57 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Jean Bullock Offline
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Just get an external harddrive.


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#382970 - 04/14/03 07:47 AM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Andy K Offline
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If you want to be sure to save all your Cakewalk data for a song, you must save as a .bun file. Anything else will risk omitting some files needed to fully play the song.


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#382971 - 04/14/03 10:49 AM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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David Wright Offline
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I agree with Andy, I also save as .bun each time not as .wrk files. A bun file includes
all data associated with the song.
During a song I save as for example:
song1.bun and song2.bun and toggle between
the two on each save. This is a good safeguard because during a save it can crash
and your bun file will be corrupt.

Example:
Lets say you lay a drum track or click track down then maybe a rythm guitar.
save as song1.bun

Now lets say you lay down a bass guitar
save as song2.bun

Now lets say you lay down a couple vocals
save as song1.bun

now lets say you lay down a lead
save as song2.bun

I think you get the idea....

That way if song1.bun crashes during a save
you just lose maybe a track or two not the
entire song.


David

#382972 - 04/14/03 08:03 PM Re: Backing Up on CD  
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Alan Offline
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Hey thats a cool idea


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