JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Is there Pro Music Industry people on this website

Is there Pro Music Industry on this website like music people like record labels and stuff are they on this website

yep there are

Do you want to read my song I wrote

Spanky,

If you mean that you want someone to read your lyric you can get feedback on one of the 3 Lyric writing feedback boards. Industry folks are NOT looking for lyrics. EVER. The only time someone in the industry would offer to read your lyrics it usually comes with a fee attached. On the other hand, you can get valuable feedback for free on our boards here, but keep in mind it is all about giving AND taking. So if you want feedback, you need to offer some in return to others. If you want to attract good co-writers who do music since it appears you don'r do that, then you can practice here as well as attract co-writers if your talent rises to a level they are interested in working with you. The industry won't be interested until your lyrics are in demand by respected writers or until you create a complete song that is undeniably better than what they already have, which is a tall order as they have deep pools of writers with successful track records which you must surpass undeniably. It's beyond a tall order, so it's best initially to work on making the best complete songs you can an then make more and more and more. Once you can steadily produce material better than they industry currently has, then you have the minimal requirements to even get started. Then you'll need help with those next step.

So start by posting irresistible lyrics that composers want to write music for. Starting here on the boards is a rung in the ladder. If you can't make it here, no point in wasting time with the "industry."

Brian

Spanky,

I've noticed a few things you have asked on these boards, "Have any of you written number one songs...?" "Are any industry people on these boards?..." etc. and I've seen some people respond to you as Brian has here but don't see a lot of you addressing what they have said or acknowledging you understand much about any of this. I sort of think you are going about this wrong and should try a different route if you want some help on your songs, lyrics, etc.
It might help you to understand a bit how the professional music industry works to help you with your questions.

First of all about the "Pros'" in the industry on boards like this. You are not going to find a lot of professional, hit or staff writers or publishers on places like this for a few reasons.

#1. TIME.
Most people who are being paid for writing songs, being involved in the promotion of songs artists, etc. are usually too busy conducting their own day to day business of writing, recording, promoting, or in the case of artists (who now have just about all the "deals" in the business, touring, and the other aspects of being an artist/celebrity.)
Writers have multiple writing appointments a day. Usually 2-3 are the norm.
They are also attending industry events. networking functions, performances, lunches, dinners, etc. And then having to work other jobs along with attempting to get some sembelence of family life. They have to have their grass cut too. After a 14 hour day of dealing with music and different personalities, the last thing you are going to want to do is go to some web site, where people are asking you to do favors for THEM.
Go try to work for any Fortune 500 company and try to SKIP LINE to get into the upper echelon of those businesses. I doubt you will get past security. Same with music.

Some will have to travel on buses to write with artists who are on tour. Some are in the studios working with their own artists who are coming out in the next year or so. And many are artists themselves, so they are also touring, recording and looking after their own interests. And since you can be gone very quickly, you keep a lot of balls in the air just to make one thing work out.

#2. LAWSUITS.
The threat of "I played you my song, cause I sent it to you through the mail and I know it was better than the four hundred songs you got that particular day, but you stole my line " I LOVE YOU BABY" so I am going to sue you." is hanging over the head of every artist, writer, publisher, record label. If you are lucky enough to get a hit song, sure enough you are probably going to be sued by someone who claimed they "wrote it first."
I am a believer that most copyright lawsuits are simply accidental since we all pick up stuff our entire lives and there really isn't anything new under the sun. But having to hire lawyers to defend yourself against even the most frivolous lawsuit is no incentive to listen to anything from anyone you don't know. That is why there is a policy of "No unsolicited material" with all professional entities.

#3. REPUTATION.
Any one at any level in the industry have spent years, if not decades working their way up. They have developed their reputation. They have written or been involved with dozens if not hundreds of songs artists, paid MONEY for much of that ,spent years doing the political things and social networking that has to be done in any business.

You have said you only have lyrics, I believe. You ask if someone could "read" your lyrics.
Well that would mean you are only half way there. AT this point you only have poetry until you get music on your lyrics so you only have a half song. And as you have heard here, the industry only deals with FINISHED products.

And not just providing music to the lyrics. Also the recordings. The presentation. Finding artists. Building relationships with other people inside the industry. It is a very social business with people knowing each other for years before they even get close to writing or recording.
By your admission, you have done none of that. You are just wanting someone to "give you the secret password or handshake" to get you in the back door and that just doesn't happen.

So I would suggest you spend some time first learning more about your craft, reaching out to others and finding out about what THEY do, what experiences THEY have instead of just getting someone to look at YOU!
If you see what is happening in society, you can draw some paralells.

Anyone out there now is far more interested in THEMSELVES than hearing anything anyone has to say. Facebook and all social networks are full of people with their own lives on full display. They have absolutely NO INTEREST in what other people think or say unless it is "LIKING" them and telling them how great they are.

The current and future music industry is just like that. Billions of songs, millions of artists, all trying to find an audience. And the only real way of developing at all is by pairing up with others, showing concern for others and finding ways you can promote your self by promoting others.

Outside of that you are going to have a tough time getting anyone really interested in "reading" your lyrics or being too interested in anything you are doing.
So instead of just asking if anyone "important" is around that can help YOU, you might start out finding out about other people and their journey.

You might get more out of it than just trying to get someone to read your lyrics.

MAB

Hi there

This site has many decent writers , and many who just do it for a hobby

Many have been here for a long time, others include bored housewives

and retired men and women having a bit of fun

Many live in the past and hate almost everything that gets on TV and Radio

others have open minds and are genuinely interested in getting better

Like any site there are a click who stick together and slap each others back

every time they post a lyric or an mp3

MAB talks the truth as he knows it from Professional Experience working

from Nashville


The thing that counts is can your lyrics be put to music, ? LYRICS are written

for the voice, They are not poems but like poems they need to be written to METER

You need to read the best books written about Lyric Writing available


As a Composer of music you also need Professional Books , written by authors

who have had success in this field, if you can play a musical instrument like guitar

or keyboards, that will be of great benefit

Its hard work becoming a Top Class Writer, and involves both lots of re writing in all areas

as your songs progress;

Have fun and enjoy yourself whatever your long term aims may be.

Hello Cheyene and thank you. Good to hear from you.

The Internet has been the ultimate in dual edge sword for many things in life. Both good and bad. As close as technology brings us, through every type of device imaginable, the farther it seems to push us away from each other.
The bigger the pulpit the bigger the voice, the louder the angry, bitter, disenfranchised and for all the good it can do, it also can do great damage.

In regard to music, it has put so many people into the game, it has decimated the financial aspect of the business.

And it has made it easy for people to think they can find the quick, easy pathway to stardom, the secret handshake, the backstage password, to get their music "OUT THERE" and become stars.

Sorry. No cigar.

I see these types of posts all the time. "How do I get my music out there... how can I get an industry person to support me, I've got GREAT songs, I just need someone to hear them..."

Don't we all?

The reality is that no matter how technologically advanced we get, the reality now is the same as it's always been. It's not who YOU know, it's who knows YOU.

People want that "magic" someone, to come along and make their career. The good producer fairy, or the magic cut fairy, or the psychic songwriting network, to come along and make them successful.

It is about meeting people, face to face, developing relationships that take sometimes YEARS to establish. I drive the streets of Music Row, know people who have their faces on those big signs for hit songs, and recognize so many from years ago, as they got to town, started working little by little, building their reputation, crawling up the ladder.
Many more that might have been just as good, but it didn't work for them. They quit and moved home.
And the vast majority that simply don't have it. They don't have the talent, they don't have the networking ability, they don't get along well with others, they don't know how to make themselves valuable to others, only focusing on themselves. I speak and write for newbies every day, all day. If you want something to happen for you, help someone else.

I hope they all find their way. But the first thing that you have to learn is that NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT YOU. It is about the relationships you develop. It is about the skills you learn and adapt. And it is about just staying in the game.
I hope this person finds what they are looking for. But they need to understand first that there is A LOT TO LEARN and it can't be done by remote control, clicking on a web site, or just demanding people pay attention to them. It;'s done by putting people into the reality of the business.

MAB

Well,
As far as I can tell, very little is happening in the Music Industry at present. And there is a lot of jealously among all the "Good Old Boys" in Music City. Many doors are closed because if I "Can't Make it", neither are you. Not that it isn't happening in other places too. I see a lot of new good artists in Nashville doing practically nothing. Of course I have heard of "Artists" being hard to deal with. I guess everybody is waiting for something to break. Me too.

It's at a point where the forgotten way for artists to cut their teeth....building a live following, is considered an outdated model.

I think you can still do it this way. You need to be so good, and/or so entertaining, that people want to go see you....not you calling people and asking them to come.

Then once you have a name, possible you could make some money by selling tickets to your show, or charging for your webcasted concerts....

I guess the lonely songwriter can only hope to write for somebody trying to do this.

Ray, I always wonder what news or sources you get your information from, because they never seem to line up with reality. I guess it would be like me telling you what is going on in your neighborhood, town or city. I have no idea because I really have no idea where you live, what it is like, or anything about your area. That is what it always seems like when I hear you say silly things.

The "good old boy" network has been gone for many years. It is actually the "new YOUNG BOY (and Women) network. Most of the people who run the industry now are pretty much like the executives you see with Google and Facebook. People that run the conglomerates and companies have mostly been in positions of power for under ten years. They were under the surface, working their way up long before that. They change a lot. Always have. Someone will put a company together and spend a few years building it. Then they will get a huge series of hits, and replace the people that were there just a few years before.

Most of the major companies are run by other countries, Japan, the UK, other countries. They have presidents, vice presidents, department heads, etc, Most of the "really hot companies: are run by former and present hit writers and artists, people Like Taylor Swift at Big Machine, and Craig Wiseman (Blake Shelton and Fla. Ga Line) and tons of other artists. But again, they change often. The average run for most hit writers, artists, producers, label heads, producers, are about 3-5 years, then they are replaced by new kids on the block, who have been around for a while but reach their top.

It has been this way for many years. There is never one company who controls every thing. The "gatekeepers" change and the real challenge once you get there is staying there.
So that is the reality. And yeah, like always, there is quite a bit going on here. But you sort of have to be a little closer to it to understand that.

Fd..... A live performance and solid fan base are essential to artists. While online can propel you in ways, the live element is something that can never be underestimated. Just like always, the really big artists make the majority of their income from touring and merchandising. Some things never change.

MAB

Well,
I Google Nashville Music Publishers from time to time to see if I can submit a song. A lot of them have Web Sites and a picture of their staff, maybe a dozen or so. None are accepting song submissions. Most likely their staff has a bunch of songs they have written but can't place. Most of them maybe have one super song and a bunch of pretty good ones. So why would they listen to more songs when they can't place what they have. I understand.

Well this year I may enter a song in NSAI'S song contest. it is $45.00 for Non-Members. And so on.

Ray,

While I understand where you come from, it is very much like saying "well there is nothing going on in the financial markets in the world, because I am not participating." Your problem starts with the "google" searching for publishers who will take outside material. That has been gone for at least 25 years. You have to develop personal RELATIONSHIPS and there is simply not going to be any "mail in" any more than there is going to be a "mail in" resume for any business on earth. Real life simply doesn't work that way.

The music business has expanded and contracted over the past many years but the real music business has always been a close group of people. It's just not anything you can randomly connect with someone and expect anything to happen. It has expanded that there are more avenues than ever. The Internet provides millions upon millions of sites, and more and more people involved in it.
It contracts with the people actually making money at it or actually participating in the higher levels. Same as sports, finance, and all entertainment.

It comes down to being effective and keeping your goals doable and approaching with common sense. There are things you can do and things you can't do. In my experience, the main thing that is gone is the "Writing a song, getting a demo, pitching that song, getting it cut." That, to me, is long gone. It is now, finding artists, building relationships with those artists, writing and having them record songs, then helping in the promotion and development of those artists." The "middle man, putting words in other's mouths" are what has ended.

There are people using the Internet to great success and never involving the mainstream of the music industry. There are many that have no labels and are marketing themselves to great effect. I was involved this weekend in a friend of mine who is doing this third music video. He is building huge fan base in Europe, as well as around the country. No record deal and really doesn't need one. But he has found ways to market himself and his music. That is where we are now. A do it yourself world.
Subsequently publishers no longer promote songs as much as they do artists. That is the vehicle and no, not all songs get placed. Now, only songs that have some pivotal meaning to an artist.

So to me, that is where you should focus your efforts, not the publishers, or "middle men." It's about being proactive and finding artists. That's where we are now.

MAB

Well,
What Marc is advocating is the songwriter not only write good songs but become a Record Label as well. Songwriters write songs, get them in shape for a Recording Artist, Record Label. most likely thru a Publisher to possibly be recorded. Not many songwriters want to or are set up to be a Record Label. Now to be sure, when you sign a song to a Publisher, they take 50 percent of the royalties as is set in Copyright Law, depending on the Publishing Contract. 50 Percent of Mechanical Royalties is the minimum. The Publishers job is to find good songs, or used to be. If they are pushing artists, they still need good songs, most are still written by outside songwriters. But the Record Labels are looking for Artists that write their own songs so they don't have to pay the full Mechanical Rate. Songwriters write songs. Record Labels find Artists. As far as I can tell, nobody is doing much of anything in the music business in Nashville.

Ray,

That is EXACTLY what has changed. There are no more "Only publishers" only record labels, only songwriters.." That is all gone.

I'll give you the way I found this out. In 1998, I attended a large insiders panel discussion. I was a member of both the Songwriter's Guild and NSAI as a pro member. It was a special invitation event.
In the audience were nearly every major songwriter, publisher, members of the PRO's, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, producers, record labels, you name it. Pretty much a who's who of the music industry.

On the dias of the speakers were the biggest label heads, presidents of record companies, some hit writers, and two guys from the 'Tech" industry. The idea was to give us all a heads up on this coming thing called "The Intereweb" which was coming and going to address issues that we all were concerned on in the future.
Subjects covered international piracy, Intellectual property issues, legislation in Congress and changes that we were all going to have to be aware of over the next 10-15 years.

It was frankly boring, with a lot of technical stuff, and it was not electric until toward the end. Then one of the "tech guys" said "In the future, Songwriters are going to have to learn to do without royalties because they won't be there."

A very famous hit writer sitting next to me, raised his hand and said "How will a songwriter make a living?"
The tech guy said "You Won't."

From that point, everything changed. Publishers started developing artists, and pairing up with the record labels. Artists wrote their own songs and were signed for their writing abilities as much as their musical abilities.
Smaller companies were formed around the artists, covering everything, from the publishing, merchandising, management, touring, endorsements, etc. One of the first was Taylor Swift.
Every major writer started developing their own artists around their songs.
Any cuts came from writers groups and inwardly controlled collaborations.

Now, you even find artists, Kacey Musgraves, and Taylor Swift, being two of the most notable, getting cuts on other artists. The name recognition are as important as the songs.

So yes, you are correct. The artists/publishers now are the record labels. The producers and management players run the insides of the business. But as I have said before, new ones start up all the time. And that is the challenge, getting involved in the artists career.

That is where things have been for well over 2 decades. You can decide to be involved in it or not. But the old days are long dead. That obituary went out long ago.

MAB

If you think artists can't make it by slowly building a tiny audience into a massive one, you should look into Sam Mendes. He started doing covers when he could barely play guitar. He did it all on YouTube and has meticulously grown an international following. He made nothing from fans except YouTube income until he was big enough to do live shows. Now he's a worldwide superstar able to play anywhere in the world to massive audiences. And he's still only 19 years old. Self made on camera from scratch. It's all there to check out. He wasn't even a songwriter for a long time, just doing covers. As time changes people just need to find a way. Those who spend their time complaining aren't working to find a way against any odds. Artists destined for success find a way.

Brian

Exactly right. We are in a DO IT YOURSELF world now. Until you can get someone else to take over the jobs. Publishers no longer just take songs. They develop artists who have themselves developed and built their own fan base and reputation. It's a long distance marathon relay race. And you don't just start in the middle.

Right on Brian. Hope your health and you are well.

MAB

That's what I mean, you can still do it the old fashion way.

But then again, if you are destined, something will happen no matter what you do, if you are not, then it wont no matter what you do.

I dont believe in destiny, I do believe in random luck. Plain and simple, some folks are very lucky in life, others are not.

It's funny how often people who work their asses off are lucky. Weird coincidence I guess.

"It's funny how often people who work their asses off are lucky. Weird coincidence I guess" - Brian


I like that Brian!

John

Very true. Mind you, a little luck along the way sure helps. It takes both.

Yes, and there are even artists who were once stars who needed some luck to survive, and didn't get it.

Merci beaucoup!

there has to be that question, big outfits have rows of writers lyric and music on board, I think if anyone found a song
on the net would have trouble getting that very wide song through that very narrow door. if you have writers bought and paid for
or search the net? i don`t know what would you do? just my thought. I think the net is affordable .. you never know who you might bump in to.

"That's what I mean, you can still do it the old fashion way"

in this small town I live in the old fashioned way exists here, it just doesn`t leave town. a station here hosts local music and songs on the radio AM, there is the local bank, markets, and anywhere they might put your song on..kind of "small town famous" but I think its as far as you will go..

But you really just answered the big question: How do I make it in music today? The answer is first you MUST be able to become "small town famous" easily and quickly if you really think for a moment you can ever become "world famous." You have little or no competition locally. Take over your own town. Make sure everyone there knows who you are and your music is all over town in any way possible. You'll learn important lessons and the reality of things are that if you can't make it there you can't make it anywhere AND if you CAN make it there, then odds are someone in that small town or region will know someone connected to the right people who can open doors for you. THAT is how you do it today. And if you are that talented, you can easily make a full time living even in a small town in a wide variety of ways. It's just that most people learn they are NOT talented enough or at least they simply don't understand how the real world works enough to succeed so instead of learning and working hard to be good and knowledgeable enough, they just want someone to hand it all to them. It will never happen unless you're a young, good looking, super talent who is willing to be exploited in terrible ways in exchange for fame. I wouldn't call that easy or desirable, but to each their own. If you aren't young, attractive and super talented and willing to sell your soul to the devil and all that implies, then you have to do the work and have the talent. Most don't and/or won't. It's up to you.

Y'all probably shouldn't take spanky so seriously.

If someone asks you something as terminally naive as..."Which way is the sky?"
"Up" will suffice as an answer.
If spanky is for real, the explanations being given are mostly beyond spanky's comprehension.

Not sure that spanky isn't just having some fun.

Yeah these types of threads always reek of somebody who hangs around here often enough to know what questions press our buttons!

I did like Brian's answer. Become a big fish in a small pond first, overnight sensations almost never happen. You just have to accept that maybe, the big fish cant go anywhere else, or worse, you cant even be the big fish in the small pond.

But it's not like there are so many options. Thats probably the only way

Now, are you sure that you don't log on as spanky and throw these questions out here just for the thrill of watching people thrash on the end of the chain?

I mean it aint a stretch for part b of;

"Is there Pro Music Industry on this website like music people like record labels and stuff are they on this website"

to be:

"or are y'all just a bunch of scrubs pretend playin'?

I think that there are traces of your DNA on "spanky." Lol

No, im not Spanky, but Im pretty sure people log on to compliment their own songs... lol "this is by far the best song I have ever heard on any forum"

Definitely has happened.

You took a long time to get back. Maybe you wanted to pour a little extra thought into covering your tracks. As the newly self-appointed head of JPF security service, know that I got my eye on you.

Is that So Spank.... I mean Marty?

I can sing them, record them and send the audio to you but the sound may boom because i had to do it in the showers
It's the only way for me to escape the wrath of my wife who think I sing like a donkey honking.

I want to be that thing in my own mind. Whether anyone else thinks it or finds it frightning.
I like looking at what is said between career musicians and average listeners. There are so many variables with each individual.