JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Hurt and I Cry. MZ .Deej &Travis. Radio Play

John..serious apologies for further thread derailment, but I couldn't let Rob's words fester in my brain without a response..

Rob,

Are you actually feeling like a victim of some kind, here?
You also say, "You can read through a lyric in 30 seconds or less but if I want people to take four minutes to listen to mine, I should chime in once in a while."

If you seriously don't understand why the majority of the people here have a problem with you, let me try to help in this regard.

So okay, you say things here that have validity, hell, Vic said basically the same thing, right? And generally, in all your critiques of various members, you make good points. Every one of them. So what could possibly be the problem, huh?

I think maybe you just don't get it, and actually feel like a victim, here?!?

In a court of law, I think it would be called something like..a preponderance of evidence..

Keep in mind this is a community. A community of songwriters, of peers, and songwriters are people. Seems obvious, but..just keep the idea of "community" in your head while I ramble a bit.

So grab your popcorn, Dave, and get ready to shout "that's entertainment" cuz Mike is about to let off a little steam.

1) You voice your opinions as if they were facts. When you say "your song is this," "your song is that," while NEVER prefacing with "I think" or "I believe" or finishing a post with, "just my opinion," or adding somewhere "IMHO" you are putting folks into a mindset of you being the teacher, dispensing facts and they being the student, and should accept what you say without offering their reasons why they wrote it the way they did. But wait, isn't this supposed to be a community of songwriters? Certainly some are more skilled than others, but when you make this first mistake of intentionally coming off like someone dispensing facts rather than offering opinion, you aren't doing anything to help your own cause of making people actually HEAR you. They just eventually turn off to voice that is always negative, you know? Human nature. A community of peers.

And point one, all alone, wouldn't be so bad..except..

2) You never EVER offer anything to act as a balance to the negative stuff when you critique a lyric. When you critique, it's short, to the point, and only negative stuff. Definitely NOT friendly and only supportive in whatever sense that pointing out faults is supportive.

And 3) when a writer defends their work? When the writer you are faulting offers reasons why they made their decisions, do you ever acknowledge what they say? offer any words of understanding? This is the point in a back-and-forth, that is crucial to getting others to understand you are coming from a "good place." When others offer reasons, and you only slap them back down, without AT LEAST saying you can understand why they wrote it the way they did, they are going to feel crappy. Why? Because you have just made their intention less important than your intention. You just made them feel like their own intentions didn't matter. Only yours do.

Travis INTENTIONALLY wanted the girls age to NOT be known. This is his perogative. When you try to strip a man of his intention, it is an attempt at taking away one of a person's innate, God given rights, of taking away their power. In essence, it is what, ironically enough, bullies do.

Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.

Granted, if you look at the advice you offer, critique by critique, each bit of advice is good, by itself...

But it's the fact that this is your pattern, day in and day out, year in and year out. A preponderence of evidence. Folks have just come to accept that this is you.

But making valid points and even "being right" are not really very important, in the grand scheme, in the bigger picture of being a member of a community, unless you don't mind people steering clear of you when the see you coming, but you obviously do, since you are talking like you are the victim here.

As a guy in a virtual community, do you feel like your one-two-three punch, here, is something that we should be lapping up like starving dogs instead of steering clear of?

We are human beings, Rob. I can't believe you are so psychologically backwards as to feel like a victim here and not understand why folks just basically wish you'd go away and not bother them, Cayenne and Fdemetrio notwithstanding. You offer absolutely NONE of the goodies that usually accompany finding fault, like the ocassional stroke, and friendly demeanor. This is why folks like Vic and Eddie can be critical and yet they are loved. Because they actually are more well-rounded community members, to say the least. They can be critical, but also can be nice. They don't just choose to critique songs they find fault with, and when they do find fault with a lyric, there's usually an attempt to balance things out with some mention of the good stuff. Why? Because they understand we are human beings, and that human beings need re-assurance that the fault finder's critiques are coming from a "good place" inside them. What re-assurance do you ever give anyone you are coming from a good place?

Let me sum up for you.

It's not about any single critique, but your overall pattern, year in and out.

It's not about finding fault, but finding fault while never attempting to balance things, otherwise folks don't feel like you're being supportive. Just finding fault makes you come off adversarial.

It's not about being right, but being part of community. This is where you seem to have a real problem. I mean, at the end of the day, you can be right a huindred times, but if you lose your friends in the process, you are left alone to celebrate, and I don't think that celebration goes very well for you.

It's about respecting a writer's intention.

You are a client of mine, and I've never turned away business before, but it's gonna be hard to sit down with a fresh song of yours and clear my head of this stuff. I'm only human. I'll go through the motions and do the work, but will their be fairy dust? I doubt it. Working with you just got hard. I've taken off my blinders. I wanted to see you differently, cuz you are a brilliant writer. I wasn't facing some truths about you, like the kind of community member you are, here. Not a very nice one, or supportive one, for sure.

I imagine you will defend your actions, but just know, Rob, my only intention is for you to actually SEE and UNDERSTAND what problems others may have with you, and I chose to speak up publicly, because of your public outcry of feeling like you are some kind of victim, here.

Mike