JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Recording Studio and Gear Forum Basic Home Audio Set-Up (Help!)

Hello,

I have a Dell laptop and recently got a few things so I could record at home. My time window to be able to learn and record is very small and thus far, I've found the process to be very frustrating.

I have an M-Audio interface. It is a very basic unit. I believe it's the Mobile USB interface. I have a condens(er or)(not sure of the spelling) microphone. I think the mic brand is Shure Audio. I have a phantom power unit that is plugged into the M-Audio interface (b/c the M-Audio did not come with this). I have headphones and a mic stand.

I am using Audacity to make my recordings. I've been trying to start the recordings with my mouse and just do live stuff, but it's making me crazy. I understand that I probably need a pedal to start and stop Audacity, for laying down guitar tracks, etc. I have no idea what kind of pedal to buy. Seems like there are thousands of them out there. Also, would a pedal be routed through the M-Audio Unit or would I need to get a midi keyboard or interface? I don't think there's any input for the pedal, since I have the phantom power unit connected to it. Obviously, I don't want to spend lots of money. I would just like something that will work.

I only do stuff on my acoustic guitar. My guitar is not an acoustic/electric, so no pick-up on it. I probably need a dynamic mic for the guitar as well. So I'm guessing I might need to upgrade the M-Audio. I'm also thinking of maybe purchasing or upgrading from Audacity to some other basic recording software. I was thinking of Adobe Audition (think that's the correct name).

Can any one of you more experienced audio folks suggest a pedal, let me know if I need a midi interface (or to upgrade the audio interface), and give me some thoughts on software?

It's probably too much to ask. Any assistance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, Wendy,

What is the model # of the M-audio interface (for my own edification)?

Generally, you can make do with one microphone for vocal and guitar, you just have to move the mic closer to your voice to make it louder, or closer to the guitar to make the guitar louder. Obviously there's a compromise here, but for a lot of things, it's not worth getting more complicated.

I don't think you need a record button or switch, per se, unless you're going to "punch in" (drop into record for a phrase or two or whatever). I would suggest getting comfy just doing entire tracks, then worry about enhancing the experience.

You can always select the sound up to the start of the music and delete it, and save the audio out as a .WAV file (or whatever). That way, you don't have to worry about count-ins or having everything start right before you being playing.

John

Hi Wendy I do not know of any way of starting a recording in Audacity with a pedal. You should just click on record and then start whenever you like after that. The unwanted part of the recorded track can then be deleted to fit where you want your recording to start.

Here is how. After you finish recording press stop go to the beginning of where you want to start the track and click the mouse, a cursor will appear. Go to edit and click on select then click on start to cursor then click on delete. your track will be cut to the desired length. To trim off the surplus at the end it is similar only select cursor to end and then delete.

If you want to layer tracks, say you record guitar and then want to add vocals later you just record another track and then can cut and paste the two tracks to sync with one another.

Hope that helps.

Jim,
You don't even have to cut and paste. You just record another track and then you just Edit, Select all and then Project, Quick Mix. It will mix the tracks into one track.

David I know but I was talking about aligning and editing. Quick mix will not align the tracks or edit out a long silence at the beginning or end.

Hi Wendy,

If you're really strapped for cash, you should be able to do what you want with Audacity. It just may be distracting to concentrate more on the technology than on the music and the performance.

Before you rush off and spend $300+ on Audition - which may be the perfect fit for you, you should at least check out Protools M-powered. It will work with your M-Audio interface and Protools takes the "Mixer + multi-track tape recorder" concept and puts it into the computer, so it's pretty easy to learn if you already can use Audacity.

Protools M-powered is only $250 most places.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=35&langid=100&itemid=4901

If you already own a decent condenser mic and have it working through the M-Audio interface, you should be able to record the guitar one time through and the vocal on a separate track. Alternately, you could get a 2nd mic for the guitar. You don't have to spend a fortune to get a decent mic. I'm sure that for $200 or less, you could find a very decent mic for the guitar and use your current mic on the vocal. That way, you could record both at the same time, but still on separate tracks.

That gives you a lot more control than trying to find that balance point between the vocal and guitar using one mic. It can be done, but it might take a few times of trial and error. It also wouldn't allow you to use EQ and different effects on the guitar vs vocal.

Just my $.02...to take a little time and evaluate a few more options.

Larry has given good advice. I reckon a small clip on pickup for your guitar would solve a lot of probs. They are easily fitted and are easier to work with than a mic placed in front. You will also get a separate track with guitar only which is easier to edit and add fx etc.

Hi Wendy

We have a very similar set up using m- audio. Though my m audio has a built in phantom power. Using a pedal for you to activate the record button is kind of ackward for me. Use the hot keys. Mine I use the space bar of my laptop to activate and de activate the record button.

SOmetimes I used the vocal comping. The tracks is in loop process then you can record again and again then you will search for the best take and delete the not so good tracks.

No need to buy a second mic. YOur condenser mic can do all the stuff. Just one at the time. Doing it one at a time give you freedom in editing your recording. Like loading your dry guitar with some reverb or compression or a little guitar effects present in your audacity plugins folder. Of course clean your tracks by using noise gate or noise reduction first then adding some plugins will sweeten your recordings.

Buying a midi usb interface will add burden to your connections to your laptop. just buy usb audio interface with midi connection.

All we really need is ears and musical skills. Gadgets? save it to the bigwigs.

Lynman

I don't do much with Audacity but does it not have the capability of recording a second track alongside an existing track? In other words, does it play back an existing track while recording an new track in parallel?
If so, just hit record and use a consistent count in, whether it's 1, 2, 3, 4 or toe taps, click track, metronome, what ever on the first track. Then, once that's there and you begin your second track recording you'll hear the count in and it's easy to start playing on the next track when you're supposed to.
If one does that there is no need to record separate tracks, cutting or copying, pasting to a new session and going through the trouble and work of aligning tracks.
Once the final number of tracks are in place one can either delete all the count in time on all the tracks, then mix and mix down to stereo. Or one can do the mixes and mix down and then trim the count in out of the final mix.

Hi Dak Audacity sadly does not have a playback feature whilst recording another track. You would have to convert the recorded track to .wav or MP3 and then play that back through phones using another player whilst recording another track on Audacity. Tracks then have to be trimmed to match up as count ins would not work well adopting this cumbersome system. This system can work but requires a lot of editing.

Well, that's a pain in the arse, ain't it? Makes any real use of the program pretty much null.

I use it but only for a quick and easy recording of streaming music so I'm only recording a single stereo track and exporting as either mp3 or wav so have never tried parallel tracking.

I would then go with Reaper, Acoustica or n-Track Studio. All are good multi track programs with very good demos and are reasonably priced.I own n-Track, and have demoed the others, like them all but lean toward Reaper or n-Track.

Since I'm mainly a Mac guy, I haven't used Reaper, Acoustica, or n-Track Studio. I'm not at all familiar with Acoustica, but have heard others recommend Reaper, and n-Track has been around for many years, so it's probably very solid. Both programs are in the $50-70 range. I don't know if there are demos available, but it would certainly be worth checking out. Sometimes the "look and feel" of a program will seriously affect how well you get on with it regardless of feature sets.

I mentioned Protools because I know it's a solid program on both the PC and the Mac, it's an extremely popular program (some will argue a "standard"), and you had already mentioned that you were looking at Audition which costs more than Protools m-powered.

Another possibility is Sonar Home Studio for around $100-150 (depending on the exact version).

Good music can be made by ANY of these programs in the right hands.

So true about the right hands.....

Both Reaper and n-Track have working demos available with Reaper having no restrictions. n-Track's demo is limited but certainly functional and I can't remember what the deal is with Acoustica but I seem to remember it was somewhat crippled.

I tried Pro-Tools several times some time ago. Of course that was back with 98 and ME and hopefully things are better now. I had all kinds of problems with getting it even downloaded for a long time. When I finally got it to download there were problems installing and once things were fixed there, it was unstable. On top of all that n-Track Studio was easier to use and would, at the time, handle more tracks so I un-installed Pro-Tools and never looked back. The experience was so unpleasant I will now never consider it.

I have never yet worked with multiple tracks in the digital world...it's all been on a 4 or 8 track tape, then I've transferred to Audacity.

I'm VVEERRYY close now to starting the new adventure, with Cubase. One of the the things I am concerned about is "punching in". (I'll explain in detail for the sake of those who are unfamiliar with this, although most of you are fully aware.) On tape, if my bass line, for example, is going very well until the middle, where I screw it up...I can back up a bit, then play the tape while I play along, and then use a pedal to resume recording at a precise point...then there is a seamless real-time "edit", and the problem is recorded over with a new bass line. Presto, fixed.

In digital tracking, what do you do? Do you simply start another track and cut and paste (or crossfade) the two together? I worry about that, because it seems that I would still hear the messed up part while I record the new one...that could be confusing, especially hearing myself swear again.

In some programs, starting a new track is the easiest and simplest way to do that kind of a punch-in. You can just highlight the section you want to replace and hit the delete key, then back up a few bars, hit record for the new track, and then merge the two tracks later.

Other programs, Cubase included, will allow you to set very precise punch in and out points and record on the same track.

Other programs (I think Cubase, too) can loop an area and automatically create new tracks while you punch in until you get the part exactly right, then you can stop and pick whichever "take" you want.

I learned punching in on 2" multi-track and you always had to compensate for the distance between the record and erase head or you could really mess up the punch. With digital, it's VERY precise: you can punch in a single word or replace just the breath before the note if you need to. Then, you can simply UNDO it if it didn't work. You can't do that on analog tape!

I think Cubase one of the more expensive packages for this kind of software ($799 for the full package), but it IS a viable option for PCs. Most of the people who are happy with Cubase are PCs owners, not Mac owners. I had terrible reliability problems with Cubase on my Mac and the consensus for Cubase even today seems to be that it's more stable on the PC.

In short, have no fear about punching in with digital. It's way easier and you'll never want to go back.

Wow! I see the light! What an awesome thing. And here I kept picturing myself clicking the mouse QUICK as my hand flies back to the guitar as fast as possible... I won't miss those days. Well, I have a new PC, screaming fast, and it looks like I'll soon be punching in and out the EASY way...

Thanks, Larry!

-Mark

Hey Mark and Larry I am not familiar with the term punching in. Do you mean overdubbing?
With Cubase just like on Audacity you can record a track and edit by cutting and pasting. You can align tracks delete a section or insert silence and match it up with the same section on another recorded track and join the two together seamless. You have a L and R cursor which allows you to work on sections. You can mute tracks and also playback and record at the same time.
It is time you looked at some tutorials. There is one specifically about editing multi tracks.
You can also mix midi and audio and play them together.

Audacity does have the capability of recording a second track alongside of an existing track. I don't know about the newer versions, but on the older versions- Go under Preferences and make sure there is a tick in the box beside "Play Other Tracks While Recording A New One."

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manual-1.2/tutorials.html

You may notice that when you play the two tracks you recorded together, they aren't synchronized. This is normal and is not the fault of Audacity. To fix it, you will need to grab the Time Shift tool (<->) "looks similar to the bar with arrows without parentheses" and slide one of the tracks around until it sounds right.

You also need to make sure to go from Microphone or Line In on your drop down box. If you use What U Hear, it will also pick up the tracks you've already recorded and make a mess.

Big Jim,

"Punching in" isn't really overdubbing, it's what happens while you're multitracking, but you just want to fix your little screw-up and keep moving...usually right away...so you back up the tape and start recording right where you left off. Cubase will be great for that with the method Larry described. Also, if I've finished a good track, and everything's fine except for that nasty spot where my voice cracked, I can now identify a start and stop point, play along with my track, and it will automatically start and stop recording over that nasty bit. It's a thing of beauty, and makes all that alignment and matching unnecessary. Sometimes that process can be too slow, and not as seamless as you'd like it to be.

I'll just take what Mark said a little further...

"Punch in" could be considered ONE way to overdub, but it's not the most common use of the word. Overdub is the more general term simply meaning to record a part AFTER other parts have been recorded.

"Punch in" has also been called "drop in". I guess the short definition would be to start a new recording on a track that already has a recorded part on it.

Specifically, if you have already recorded a part, but need to replace only a small section or a few notes, you would set that track to begin recording there and then stop recording when the "bad" part ends. Then you'd back up a few bars (to get the flow) and the program will automaticaly start and stop recording at those marker points.

Just to be sure there wasn't a different term used, I checked a Cubase Manual and Steinberg also refers to it as "Automatic Punch In". Here is the relevant section of the Cubase LE Manual:

"Cubase LE can automatically switch from playback to recording at a given position. This is known as "automatic punch in". A typical use for this would be if you need to replace a section of a recording, and want to listen to the previously recorded audio up to the recording start position."

With Audacity, all you can do is audio. Just about every other program mentioned above will do both midi and audio and allow you to "mixdown" the combination of tracks with separate effects on each track.

[...cue to Disney music playing from Aladdin...."It's a whole new world..."]

Larry, please "punch in" over that last bit in parentheses...you just messed up my internal radio station.

Hi I am with you we just call it overdubbing.

Hey Mark, I just realized that's not a STRAT avatar, but a Rickenbacker, isn't it?

I just changed it. The Strat looks a lot like mine, same color but a maple neck. This Rick 4001 is like mine, only I have a '72 in Burgundy. LOVE Rickenbackers.

Thanks to all who responded to this. I still have not decided what to do, but I was able to use a few of these tips about Audacity.

Hi Wendy,

Just reading some of the helpful comments on recording in here. It is so nice to have someone to ask technical things of.

I was writing about Audacity. I use it all the time for my recording. I have recorded as many as 10 tracks at a time and then mixed them together. I have never had to synchronize them manually, they are always in sync. I use version 1.2.6.

Here is an example of steps.

I first record drum. I leave a slight silence at the beginning, so that I can later use noise removal if necessary.
I put a line from the drum machine (in my case a keyboard) and then push record in audacity. I leave the slight silence, then I turn on the drumbeat and let it go for 4 minutes at least, so that if I get long on my song I still have the beat.

I push my spacebar and stop recording the drum beat.

I then put my headphones on, already having myself situated in front of the mic with my guitar, push record, start listening to the drumbeat and come in on the correct beat of the drum and record the rythm guitar. I have used just a computer mic for the guitar before ( I have a different set up now with a berringer mixer but I have done tons of songs in the past like that)I do the entro on the guitar, then I sing the song in my head and play the guitar. I stop playing the guitar where the song should end, tho the drums may still be going. I will then highlight the extra drums at the end and delete them.

(If I dont use a drum beat, I just push record and sit down and start playing my guitar. It is best to use a pick up and go directly in to the computer, or a mixer if that is what you use, but a mic works fine too..it does not matter if there is a little noise before you start playing. You can silence it out later, or delete it)


Then, I set the mic for my vocal. I push record again, and in my headphones I now hear the drums and the guitar. I sing my lead melody. After I sing it, I push play and listen to all parts together, and if I dont like my vocal, I will just x out the vocal track and do it again. When I get one I like, I go back to the recording step.

I push record, I hear all 3 tracks in sync. I add whatever I want to add in the song, such as a harmony vocal next.

I go back and push play and listen, if I like the harmony track, I keep it if not, I do it till I like it. (I do sometimes keep tracks I didnt like and mute them while recording or playing, because I may use pieces of it when I edit later)

I go back and push record, and record a second harmony track, or lead instrument etc.

Everytime I push play, I hear every track I have previously recorded.

Then when I have all the tracks I want, I go back and highlight the extra drum tracks at the beginning and include all the other tracks below it the same. I delete the beginning of all the tracks so that the entro starts right.

Then I go in and listen, changing the volume on the each track to what I like, changing some to left and right channels, apply any effects such as g verb or equalization etc. You have to listen quite a few times to get the right mix and make sure you don't redline and distort. I then save the project as my songs name. Then I export it as MP3, when I have it mixed as I like it.

I did use NTrack before, and I had a lot of trouble with the tracks getting out of sync, especially if you add more than 5 tracks. I do like audacity better.

I know there are lots more professional programs, but I think this one works pretty well once you get to know it and feel comfortable. I think I am still learning what it can do, but you have to experiment sometimes to learn I guess. There are many effects I am still in need of more practice to get good at.

Anyway, I know you will find the right system for your self. It sure is fun to layer all those tracks on, and know you can delete so easily, and if you delete by mistake you can undo it..

Good luck Wendy, I can't wait till you get the right system so we can hear more of your great singing and songwriting.

Letha

What a great post, Letha. I forget how helpful it is to explain in detail all the steps you take when you do something...too often we just say things like "then record three tracks, add effects and mix 'em down"...and that really doesn't help a lot of people.

Your post made me wonder if you could "punch in" on Audacity...instead of re-doing a whole track, maybe you just want to "fix" a shorter section. I did a Google search and found this passage...can't vouch for it, but it may come in handy. (Not sure why they mention Adobe Audition, but this came from an Audacity Q&A forum.)

Thanks for that cool post!

Here it is:

If you’re dissatisfied with a time range of a recorded clip, you can select that range and punch in a new recording, leaving the original clip intact. Though you can record into a specific range without punching in, punching in lets you hear audio immediately before and after a range; that audio provides vital context for creating natural musical transitions.

For particularly important or difficult sections, you can punch in multiple takes, and then select or edit takes to create the best performance. Adobe Audition saves two seconds of audio on either side of a punch-in range, so you can seamlessly edit and crossfade takes. (See To display, remove, or play hidden clips.)

Note: You can't punch into a loop-enabled clip. For information about disabling loops, see To override original loop properties.

In the Main panel, drag the Time Selection tool in the appropriate track to select a time range for the clip.
Make sure that the correct track input is selected. (See To assign inputs and outputs to audio tracks.)

Choose Clip > Punch In.

Position the start-time indicator a few seconds before the selected range.

The Arm For Record button for the track is now activated in the Main panel.

In the Transport panel, do one of the following:
To punch in a single take, click the Record button .
To punch in multiple takes, right-click the Record button, choose a Loop While Recording option, and then click the Loop While Recording button.**

Thanks Mark that is something I have learned. It will come in handy and save a bit of time.
If anybody has interesting fx settings etc it would be neat to jot down the numbers etc and post them for others to share. Too many Audacity features and their settings are just trial and error to get the sound you want. I end up giving up sometimes.

Hi Mark and Jim,

Yes, I like to write it out in step by step detail like I would understand it before I knew much about recording in audacity. This is really helpful for all of us, thanks Wendy.

I would truly love to find some better effects or else how to use them in audacity. I need the compression badly, but I haven't figured out how to use the settings yet. And I don't like the gverb all that much. It is extreme to me. I have found Normalize helps when I want to record a demo of multiple songs. I used to have one really lowd, then one low, and have to turn the volume up and down. At least I think it worked on my demo.
It was only 6 minutes for about 8 or 10 song snips though.

I will keep watching this post to learn more about anything I can to get better recording tecniques.

I know what you mean about giving up on the effects Jim, I have many songs finished that I am not 100% happy with but settled.

Thanks again,

Letha

Letha I am going to bed cause it is late but Gverb really works if you know how to fix the settings properly. Otherwise it sound like a flushing toilet. I will PM you tomorrow or post here with some ideas.

Hi all Here is a link to a tutorial on Audacity. It has some interesting info on Gverb and some example settings. They are a good starting point. Just a little tweak needed to get the sound you want.

http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=GVerb