This is perhaps the wrong forum to post this article in because many of you guys are lovers of Country music, which is well known for quality lyrics and a real understanding of lyrical construct. I am guessing many of you will consider the lyrical content to be extremely important to the overall quality of a song.

However, I am about to propose that lyrics are perhaps less important than one may first think. I'll admit, I am playing devils advocate a little because we all know that lyrics are very important, but stick with me, I may have a point and it may throw up a nice debate!

The overwhelming majority of people will say that the lyrics are the most important part of a song. They'll claim that the lyrics are the thing they like most about a given song, especially a ballad.

This afternoon I played devils advocate with my girlfriend who told me how she loves Stevie Wonder - Over Joyed Stevie Wonders - Over Joyed. I agree with her that the song is awesome, but I wanted to know why she likes the song so much. She told me that the lyrics are beautiful and explained that the lyrics are the primary reason she loves listening to the song.

I proposed that the lyrics play a tiny role in why she likes the song. I explained that if we took the lyrics and sung them in a grungy, upbeat punk way (which I know she dislikes) then the lyrics would carry no meaning and she would avoid listening to the song!

I went on to suggest that perhaps the vocal tune, chord progression and instrumentation were the key reasons why she likes the song, and that the lyrics were the “icing on the cake”.

From my own perspective, I know that there are many songs that have average lyrical content that I can listen to over and over, but I can think of no songs that I enjoy listening too which have great lyrics but a poor musical/melodic content!

An example of a song that has pretty basic lyrics but a great feel for example would be Lenny kravitz -- Sugar Lenny kravitz -- Sugar or Omar Lye-Fook -- World Of You Omar Lye-Fook -- World Of You

I still haven't opened my recording studio in Birmingham (UK) yet but we have plans on introducing a song writing workshop and networking group when we do. Topics like these are great for getting a discussion going and forcing writers to think more deeply about what makes a song attract and connect with listeners.

I must make my position known that I do believe lyrics are incredibly important. In fact, my “devils advocate” argument is somewhat invalid because we all know that a song is made from many parts and all those parts need to work in harmony. The greatest songs manage to have the best of all worlds, great lyrics, music and vocal melodies.

However, the fact remains (for me at least), I do prefer great music and vocal melodies over poor music and great lyrics. This leads me to conclude that the lyrical content is slightly less important than the music and vocal tune.

Is this conclusion controversial, short sighted or spot on? Let me know what you think and how you rank the overall importance of the lyric content in a song compared with other fundamental elements.

Finally, I have to drop a shameless plug for my song pitching platform Audio Rokit. Songwriters always needed by top music industry reps and may be a great tool to gain exposure for your music.

Hi Darren:

Your "banner" or topic title hints that you don't believe that lyrics are important at all... LOL! After reading your post, I would say that your observation is pretty close. The music is always (well, nearly always) more important than the lyric but they both need to compliment each other or contrast sufficiently to accomplish the writer's or writing team's objective.

Good luck with your music and a hearty welcome to JPF.

Hi!

I think the music is the thing you get caught in when you listen to a song for the first time, but in order to keep you interested for a longer time and possibly to achieve some kind of "maturity" a song needs to have good lyrics. I don't think there's too many songs we perceive as "classics" with less then good lyrics.

Darren--

I agree with Dave basically--but IT always depends: THE IN-CROWD-Ramsey Lewis Trio, LOVE IS BLUE-Paul Mauriat, and many others like TEQUILA- Champs--ALL INSTRUMENTALS--Then there are the SPIRITUALS, WITH NO MUSIC, just a MELODY-GO DOWN MOSES--

I think the whole ball of wax added with the VIDEOS work together to enhance the SONG, no matter what genre!

ONE DAY IT MAY NOT BE A SONG UNLESS IT HAS A VIDEO!

Mackie

The lyric is as important as the music if not more important. The bread and butter to me is the melody. If you can sing your lyric with no music and it's still catchy then your good to go. All in all the music and the lyric both need to work together to make a great song.

Ah, Papa-oom-muh-muh-muh-muh
Ah, Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Dit-dit-dit
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Dit-dit-dit
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow

The funniest sound I ever heard
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow
But I can't understand a single word
Papa-oom-mow-mow
Papa-oom-mow-mow
But if he's serious or if he's playin'
Whoo, my my is all he's sayin'
Papa, whooo
Baba-baba-baba-whoooooooo!

I think lyrics are very important.

Lemme see....

Bass
Drums
Guitar
Keys
Vocal Performance and Delivery - *most important of all
Backing Vocalists
Melody
Song Structure
Song Musical Arrangement
Recording
Mixing, Engineering and Production
Post Production and Mastering

..... and of course lyrics do go in there too, in no particular order.

Conclusion ? ..... the lyrical value equates to about 10% of the value of the finished work..... and also needs to be the very best it can be in addition to all the other parts mentioned.

cheers, niteshift

Hey everyone,
I am just new to the site but great to hear your thoughts on lyrics & music! What you've all said makes sense & has merit. Thanks for sharing, & all the best with your songs!

Depends on the genre...but IMO lyrics are relatively unimportant compared to melody, arrangement, production and performance. These things are what make a hit before considering lyrics.....to illustrate my point folk cannot sing most songs the whole way through without going lah de dah cause they have forgotten the lyrics. They remember the odd verse and chorus and some hooks but that is about it....now if lyrics were the number one important thing then folks would remember the lyrics but forget the tune.
Today's pop music is mainly repetitive moronic nonsense when it comes to lyrics.......more often than not the melody is pretty one dimensional but it sells because of the rhythmic beat and the production....most kids have no clue as to what the singer is singing about....I also have a problem making out some of the modern lyrics because of really bad diction and pronunciation.....and why everyone has to sound so nasally is beyond me.....as forthe overuse of Melodyne.....just one question......WHY?

I see Darren has set yet another hare running

Sometimes the lyric is not that important however sometimes it is everything.

For every Bee Bop A Lula there is an I Will Survive and for every Rama Lama Ding Dong there’s a My Way.

What is important is the message that needs to be conveyed. If you want to make a thought provoking statement about the history of pop then you need an American Pie if you just want to dance and party then Boogie Nights should do it.

Lyrics are very important in the sense that they must be right for the song but that doesn’t mean they have to be some profound piece of prose or poetry. Depending on the type of song 'Shake shake shake your booty' can be as important as 'From a distance you look like my friend even though we are at war' - it’s all about context.

Let me know when your studio is open I would love to pop in.

Cheers

Nige

The sound of someone with a nice voice singing appeals to most humans, often more than someone playing an instrument. The lyrics have to sound good when sung. They have to have rhythm, nice vowels, and often a hook that people can sing along with in their heads to a good melody.

In general. the actual meaning of the lyrics is less important than the way they sound when sung. Of course, some songs are telling a story and in those cases, the lyrics also have to make sense.

People like to hear operas sung in Italian, songs with dialects so strong they cannot understand what is being said, etc.....as long as it sounds good.

There are countless examples of important lyrics and unimportant lyrics:

Unimportant:
Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da
Brown Sugar (bet you can't recite any except the hook)
Billie Jean

Important:
Ode to Billie Joe
Love Story (Taylor Swift)

So, it depends.....

A cake without icing is a bun...

The age old question appears again lol.

Nice to meet you Darren and a big welcome from London-UK

I wont get drawn too much into this subject as its been done so many times, and very heated on occasions.

I write lyrics only, and whilst I believe them to be be the icing on the cake, I also believe that the music and vocals on all my tracks made the songs special.

For me its the whole finished package that counts.

God Bless Roy and Helen

I would just like to register the fact that I don't like icing ... or marzipan for that matter - it's all food of the devil!

Hi Ya Bother Darren, & Welcome!

Ah, the Age-Old Debate, usually started by a Musician...heh!

Last year saw a Number-One-Billboard-Charted Hit that was ONLY Vocal & Piano..Adele...Think it was "Someone Like You", check it out at VEVO.

Then, ask yourself if you'd have that tear in your eye if it was Music Only....

Back to penning my next lyric, & searching for good Musicians, like yourself.

Best Wishes, Welcome A-Boards,
Stan

It is a very legitimate issue. I think lyrics are important but I also think that the degree of importance relative to the music depends on the genre and audience. I focus on teen pop and country - and I write very differently for each.

Teen pop requires a measure of simplicity and fitting the lyrics to the music. Generally, the way we do it, the music is written first and the lyrics are written to the music.

For country, I like to really make a focused story. We write the lyrics first and then do the music.

Tom

Lyrics are both the *most* and *least* important part of a song. At the same time.

You can name many instrumentals that are popular but you can name many many many more non-instrumentals. Naming the few successful instrumentals just shows how comparatively few there are.

It all depends on what you mean by "song" though, isn't it? "Song" has two distinct meanings. A "song" is the music and lyrics (often with a specific chord progression) that can be sung by anyone on any instrument. I can sing Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Dah on the guitar, piano, or accompanied by a harmonica, but it is the same "song"

However "song" has *come to mean* the *recording* of a song. "Did you download that new song?" means did you get that recorded track. A song plays on the radio, that's the whole enchilada, the singer, the instruments, the lyric, the mixing. So we get the two meaning crossed sometimes.

The better the lyric, the easier the song can move from the intial recording to other modes of expression.

Now, it's also true that before the 1950s, there were big bands, and instrumentals were widely heard and quite popular. Sometimes they had words, with a lead singer, but you had Count Basie and Duke Ellington hits that were all music. So in other ways, it's a product of the time and what technology is popular.

I agree that lyric are becoming less important (in some respects) due to digital music. As music is available 24/7, carried around with us, it is less of an event to hear it; it's on all the time, in our ears. It's now background to everything, and as "songs" recede into the background of everyday life, we hear the words less prominently. And if you listen to Pandora, and hear them choose singers who are similar to one of your favorites, they all start to blend together.

So yes, it depends. But a lyric is the great Diffentiator -- it's what elevates a song to a story or meaning that stays with you, that makes you want to hear that song again. It's still a key element. Maybe even more important than the bass line!!!!

And....in closing (applause, cheers), I'd argue that the lyric for Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Dah is *very* important and not just because of the carefully chosen nonsense words in the chorus. I have thought about Desmond's barrow and Molly's band for many years.

Hey Darren,

I think it's about time for a Mike Dunbar "Who's On Your Team?" lecture. Followed by.... "You Do Have A Team, Don't You" lecture.

A lyricist is part of the team. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you're a musician who's lyrics are weak, you choose to work with a strong lyricist.

Likewise if you can't play a 1 4 5, you hire a bass player who can. If you can't drum map, or actually play live drums, you include an ace drummer.

I don't think one aspect is more important than another. It should all gel, and a lyricist who doesn't study their craft will end up just like a vocalist who can't pitch or phrase correctly.

It's Ok, It'll all work out in the mix........

cheers, niteshift

We all know it's all about the best or perfect marriage of lyric to a song Melody with words.

Nige hit it really simply the "the right words for the music"
Or the right music for the words. Elton & Bernie are one of the greatest examples of this in modern times.

Think about some songs that are timeless and everlasting. You'd have to start with the music of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart,Brahms etc... Till this day EVERYONE knows this music kids graduate to it EVERY year, people get buried to it every day. Movies and TV keep rehashing it over & over... You'd have to be not human to not recognize the melody of the 5th Of Beethoven or Brahms "Craddle Song"

And they are ALL instrumentals......

So you can have centuries if desired of MUSIC without one word
being sung. But since it has you couldn't anymore.

In a nut shell on the quality of lyrics it ranges, simple can be great, heavy and deep can be great.. Being effective is the most important thing. In some cases they can be NOT GREAT and still be a Big Hit.. Also STYLE or SUBSTANCE in many cases.

Country - Can have the greatest heartfelt lyrics and some some of the lamest hokey things you could ever imagine. Face turn red in shame lines....

Dance - Can have the greatest feel good wanna get up and go lyrics or the dumbest ones you ever heard. A pure novelty!

Rock - Can have the most unique and interesting lyrics of ALL music ever... But can also be so obscure and clueless, it would seem some bands take 10 minutes to write lyrics to there songs.
They dont even know what they mean, but the devoted fan cheers and throw money..

Hip Hop & Rap - Some of the most catchy catch phrases, clever unique rhymes you could ever hear. Straight at the people from the people. Then again the over use of degrading women at ever turn.. Hoe's, & Bitches, Rims Bling, Money and VIOLENCE. I know it's a reflection but does every image need to be mirrored?

Singer Songwriter Artist - At one time this artist had it ALL.
It still does, with some of the most beautiful songs messages that are deep yet simple and there fans just dig deep into listening to them. Lots of PASSION make up this approach.
But much like some bands these type can get away with MURDER.
Come onto a late night national TV talk show. like the Tonight Show, sit there Out of tune, out of pitch and sing the same line 16 times in row like, "Give me strength oh chariot" or "You dont really see me"
But because it's a cool minor chord an they look so sincere and passionate about what there doing they get away with it...

Pop - Combine all of the above... SEX is the main issue here.
Sex = Popular.

well there's some Pos/Neg Yin/Yang for you

The best songs overall lyrically and have great lasting power are the simple and great kind.

Just take a quick stroll back to some Grammy Winners and Nominees of the 1970's and you'll get a great example of that..

Bridge Over Troubled Water
You've Got A Friend
Killing Me Softly
The Way We Were
Send In The Clowns
Just The Way You Are

At Seventeen
This Masquerade
Hotel California
Fire & Rain
What a Fool Believes
Midnight Train To Georgia
We've Only Just Begun
Rose Garden
American Pie
The Wreck Of The Edmund
Nobody Does It Better

Hello? Singles... lets not even start with albums

Hi Darren
I think a song needs both good music and lyrics to be a hit.
If it sounds good I'll start listening to it. But if the lyrics suck, then I'll change the station.

If a piece of music has a lyric, it's important to me.

I'm not interested in hearing a boring bunch of words that don't rhyme, or even that do.

I'm very word-oriented. I don't like hearing a voice hitting notes but distorting the words so I can't understand them. A lyric is a 'communication'. That implies the singer is 'sending' and I'm 'receiving'. If I don't understand the words, then the communication is incomplete.

Most people can relate to a lyric, even if they have little appreciation for the guitar work or keyboard work or percussion performance, beyond the beat. Even young children can relate to the lyric. That's why nursery rhymes are so entertaining to them.

As a songwriter, YOU are the first listener. You should be hooked the same way you hope others will be.

Sometimes you're not truly 'hooked' on the words, but you go on because you are 'hooked' by the pleasure of singing and playing. And sometimes what you're singing, entertaining yourself, is not entertaining to others.

It's interesting to ponder about, of course.

I don't believe you can measure it, like the question asks for. A song is a whole, and can't be reduced to it's parts. So a lyric might be the whole schiiiz, and it might not be as important.

Today, writing a serious and coherent lyric might sound pretty old school, no matter how great it is. So, I belive it's not just about content, but about style as well. Lyrics need to be written in an acceptable language style of the listeners (the segmented audience), and bring up issues that is important to the particular crowd. In some genres, you can't move beyond how to score and getting out on the dancefloor, without being uncool, and in some genres, those exact same things are uncool.

So lyrics are important, but from a writing perspective, you always need to be ahead of the game, and consider the audience you are aspiring to write for. That's why some lyrics seem ridiculous for some, and hits the mark for others.

Perspective, perspective, perspective!

Lyrics are very important in Gospel music, without the lyrics it would just be another instrumental song, the lyrics is the message that convicts the sinner and convinces him/her that they need a Saviour.

As someone who has always placed a high value on lyrics and consider myself at least half decent at writing them, I'd never asked myself this question until posting my songs on a facebook songwriting community page. I found that although I got lots of very helpful feedabck about my music, 90% of the comments made no mention of the lyrics whatsoever. This left me, and still leaves me pondering, if songwriters are not interested in lyrics, perhaps they are not as important as I thought. The few comments I have had in the short time I have been on JPF contain only one reference to lyrics. I'm not complaining, just wondering if that speeks volumes for the importance or lack of importance of lyrics.

I don't think you can deduct this from participating in public foras. Anybody can call themselves songwriters, and they can be very interested and engaged in songwritings for sure, but that does not mean they actually have well defined concepts about what they are doing.

Professionals doesn't participate often in public foras because what they write is already in a professional context, and is therefore either owned by someone else, keeping them from exposing their work before it's officially released, or their work is peer reviewed by actual decision makers, who can determine if a song gets cut or not. Professional songwriters are already in a peer group with documented knowledge, so they have no reason to seek out public foras for reviews. If the pro's come out in the general public, it's to make easy money off of hopeful amateurs.

I'm not saying anything bad about participants in public forums, but you have to realize what you are dealing with. There's a lot of fiction here in the virtual world!

amen


mmmmmmm. that was all I was gonna say, but I decided to probably stick my foot in my mouth far enough to gag, but hey....

Some songs are driven by the music and the lyrics are junk, like songs by many pop artists these days, but they work, to dance to, drive to, whatever. I can get down to LMFAO's Party Rock...
"Party rock is in the house tonight
everybody just have a good time
and we gonna make you lose your mind
everybody just have a good time"

very simple writing. Nothing new or unheard of before, BUT the music drives it, makes you wanna move, a celebration style of song.

Then take the song by Adele, as Stan mentioned
Someone Like You, --just one verse of this amazing tear-jerker

" I hate to turn up out of the blue uninvited.
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it.
I'd hoped you'd see my face & that you'd be reminded,
That for me, it isn't over"

that last line is a heartbreaker, of course, the WAY she sings it and feels it...makes it even better. Lyrics matter in this song, I feel. The lady wrote it about a bad breakup, and touched upon many of our feelings that we have all faced at one time or another when running into someone we used to love, or who used to love us.

I just feel it is a blanket statement to say lyrics don't count or really matter much.

Of course for a mostly lyrical writer, it is a slap to the face, like what we do is not creative or important to a song. If the lyrics are good and have a message, or bring back a memory or bring a smile or tear, they are important....but then again, so is music...why do we have to debate which is more important, really?

I love them both.

Ken I have seen critiques on our MP3 forum where only the lyrics were discussed...the melody, music arrangement and production were hardly ever mentioned...some people almost re wrote the whole lyric but barely mentioned the melody or much else about the musication....the conclusion I come to is that it depends on whether you are a lyric writer or a musician....and your perspective is somewhat swayed by that....lyric only people concentrate on lyrics whilst musicians tend to think of the melody and arrangement etc.
Lyrics are important to any song cause without lyrics it is a tune....that said there have been huge hits with pretty iffy lyrics....but I have never come across a poor melody that was a hit regardless of lyrics.
I love both lyrics and melody and have been known to write one, other or both...but from a commercial POV IMHO the music is what sells...lyrics in comparison are quite far down the list....ther are exceptions but they are few and far between in popular music.

Big Jim, If you've never heard a poor melody that was a hit regardless of lyrics you haven't listened to much corporate country music coming out of Nashville for the last 20 years or so. But I can't blame you for that.

i think it has to have both.there's no right or wrong,if i want to write an instrumental does that mean it's an unfinished song or if i want some really great lyrics to some handclapping does that suck?It's all what you like to hear i think.Look at the early musicians with great lyrics but not bad music just poorly recordings from back then.Someone in todays market picks up a Woody Guthrie or Blind Lemmon song with great lyrics and put some awesome mix to it,it's gonna be different musicaly but not lyricly.It's all food for the ears and everybody don't like the same!

Wow great comments guys!

I read through all the comments and whilst everyone had some great points I think Nige nailed it with this statement;

"Lyrics are very important in the sense that they must be right for the song"

Some songs benefit from (and are better as a result of) cheesy, simple, shallow, fun (etc) lyrics.

However, I think we'll all agree that whilst a lyric isn't always the most important part of a song, a great song combined with a thought provoking and equally great lyric seems to create truly great (and lasting) art!

BTW: I had a few hours in a cafe today without internet. Aghh! My panic subsided and I realised there are other things I can do with a computer besides going online!

The result, another post entitled: Celebrity Exposure For Your Music

The lyric just has to be true to the song.

There are exceptions. The melody to Mack The Knife is very
happy, but the lyric is about a guy who's claim to fame is his prowess for stabbing people. ( I know, originally, in the german production of Three Penny Opera, the song was done in a very dour fashion, matching the lyrics ). Still, it was redone as a pop tune keeping the dour lyrics, and no one seemed to complain.

Lyrics are always important. But I think even more impotant than lyrics is the production --- the way a record sounds.

Both, depends on the song and the genre.

One some songs lyrics are critical and
other songs they're irrelevant.

Listeners usually dig the melody, rhythm, music and beat.

From a creation point of view, lyrics can be critical to getting a song started, they can set the mood and melody, but songs are written both ways, some words first some mucic/melody first.

If you are an artist you can write & record whatever you want.
Sometimes lyrics can really limit a pitch. Good luck getting an artist to record a song like
Alanis Morissette's "You Oughta Know" with the line "Are you thinking of me when you f@ck her?" or Liz Phair's "Why Can't I?"
"We haven't f@cked yet, but my head's spinning"

If you are a songwriter who wants other artists to record your songs, They need to be very well crafted, they need to jump out of the pile of songs they've searched through, lyrics can't be a deal breaker,
you have to give the artist HUGE reasons to record your song.
It needs to be incredible.
it needs to be special.

Lyrics are extremely important in country, americana, & folk.
Not so much in rock or pop, but they can be really important, it's a judgement call from one song to the next.

When comes to lyrics, some say
country is substance over style and
pop & rock are style over substance.

The answers to this are, it depends on the song and on the listener.

It's not fair to critique a pop song with a country filter & vice versa.

There's nothing like an awesome song with a well crafted moving lyric
It's good to use Lyric Writing Tools
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/537816/page/1#Post537816

There's nothing like an awesome song where the lyrics are in a language you understand and parts or all of it is jibberish.

There's nothing like an awesome song in a language you don't speak but the music melody and singer are so passionate that you feel the emotion.

Like I don't speak or understand much spanish but I love Son By Four's song A Puro Dolor. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAKVT1HWNsg
the singers passion and desperation completely comes across.

Louie Louie's Lyrics are:

CHORUS:

Louie Louie, oh no
Me gotta go
Aye-yi-yi-yi, I said
Louie Louie, oh baby
Me gotta go

Fine little girl waits for me
Catch a ship across the sea
Sail that ship about, all alone
Never know if I make it home

CHORUS

Three nights and days I sail the sea
Think of girl, constantly
On that ship, I dream she's there
I smell the rose in her hair.

CHORUS

Okay, let's give it to 'em, right now!

GUITAR SOLO

See Jamaica, the moon above
It won't be long, me see me love
Take her in my arms again
Tell her I'll never leave again

CHORUS

Let's take it on outa here

SO MAYBE NOT THAT IMPORTANT BUT THE LYRICS TO TODD SNIDER'S "BALLAD OF THE KINGSMAN" ARE:

The Kingsmen came together in a garage,
They could hardly even play
But they practiced night And day
pretty soon they got to where they could really play that song Louie, Louie
So, they saved up all the money from the shows,
Went in to one of them studios and gave their version of the song a try

Now, I don't know the words to that song Louie, Louie
and I'm pretty sure the singer for the Kingsmen didn't know ‘em either,
If he did know ‘em he didn't get ‘em right on the record
Cause on the record they sound jumbled in his jaw?
It says, Me think of me girl oh so constantly
Ahmayaaah makaaaah aahh ooohoooh aaaaah
Well, that last part scared everybody from the PTA to the FBI
You see, the kids had been going kind of crazy lately
And it seemed like nobody could figure out why,
So they decided to form a coalition,
Launch an investigation, you know for the children,
they at least had to try
To figure out the words to Louie, Louie

Chorus
It's the feel good hit of this endless summer
It gets these kids out of control
Singin along to that star spangled bummer,
Hail, hail rock and roll

Marilyn Manson’s real name isn't even Marilyn Manson,
He's a skinny public high school Kid from Florida,
Not some monster from out of this world and like of a lot other skinny long hair public High school kids he was sick of getting
Beaten up by the pulling guard all week only to go out on the weekend, And watch the Quarterback get all the girls
so, He formed a band man Now' he gets all the girls,
A few years later a couple of latchkey kids go tragically
Mad and everybody's standing around the television store at the mall trying to figure out what went wrong,
This guy says, You think the life of a kid going to high school could've gotten so bad this other guy says nah,
It's just the words to one of them goddamn Marilyn Manson songs,
You know the one

Chorus

You know, every ten years or so our country and some other little country,
We start firing all of our newest weapons
At each other for some reason or another, right or wrong,
Like it or not, it happens, and when it happens
People get shot and when people get shot,
They show it on tv a lot every night at six o clock
And you don't even have to be eighteen to see it you don't even have to be in first grade,
First grade where they teach the kid pride
They tell him he'll need to thrive,
In a world where only the strong will survive,
So he's taught the art of more
To compare to and to keep score Monday thru Friday while
He stares at the floor til' Sunday they make him go to
School once more only this time they make him wear a suit and a tie
And listen to some guy who claims to know Where people go
When they die tell him that only the meek are gonna inherit the earth Well [naughty word removed],
By this time the kid doesn't know what anything
Is worth, now brothers and sisters I am only one guy
And I don't even know the words to that song Louie,
Louie but I can tell you right now without batting an eye
That the next time some latchkey kid goes wrong
It aint gonna be cause that Eminem gets to say the word Fag in his song
And I'm not trying to preach to ya either,
I'm just trying to sing to ya too, you know string a few words together

Hey kids...
Lets get it on,
Lets get it on

~ ~ ~ ~

YOU BE THE JUDGE

WHAT ABOUT
Imagine - John Lennon
From a Distance _
The Rose
Yesterday
what a wonderful World
or

James McMurtrey's
"We Can't Make it Here"

Vietnam Vet with a cardboard sign
Sitting there by the left turn line
Flag on the wheelchair flapping in the breeze
One leg missing, both hands free
No one's paying much mind to him
The V.A. budget's stretched so thin
And there's more comin' home from the Mideast war
We can't make it here anymore

That big ol' building was the textile mill
It fed our kids and it paid our bills
But they turned us out and they closed the doors
We can't make it here anymore

See all those pallets piled up on the loading dock
They're just gonna set there till they rot
'Cause there's nothing to ship, nothing to pack
Just busted concrete and rusted tracks
Empty storefronts around the square
There's a needle in the gutter and glass everywhere
You don't come down here 'less you're looking to score
We can't make it here anymore

The bar's still open but man it's slow
The tip jar's light and the register's low
The bartender don't have much to say
The regular crowd gets thinner each day

Some have maxed out all their credit cards
Some are working two jobs and living in cars
Minimum wage won't pay for a roof, won't pay for a drink
If you gotta have proof just try it yourself Mr. CEO
See how far 5.15 an hour will go
Take a part time job at one of your stores
Bet you can't make it here anymore

High school girl with a bourgeois dream
Just like the pictures in the magazine
She found on the floor of the laundromat
A woman with kids can forget all that
If she comes up pregnant what'll she do
Forget the career, forget about school
Can she live on faith? live on hope?
High on Jesus or hooked on dope
When it's way too late to just say no
You can't make it here anymore

Now I'm stocking shirts in the Wal-Mart store
Just like the ones we made before
'Cept this one came from Singapore
I guess we can't make it here anymore

Should I hate a people for the shade of their skin
Or the shape of their eyes or the shape I'm in
Should I hate 'em for having our jobs today
No I hate the men sent the jobs away
I can see them all now, they haunt my dreams
All lily white and squeaky clean
They've never known want, they'll never know need
Their sh@# don't stink and their kids won't bleed
Their kids won't bleed in the da$% little war
And we can't make it here anymore

Will work for food
Will die for oil
Will kill for power and to us the spoils
The billionaires get to pay less tax
The working poor get to fall through the cracks
Let 'em eat jellybeans let 'em eat cake
Let 'em eat sh$%, whatever it takes
They can join the Air Force, or join the Corps
If they can't make it here anymore

And that's how it is
That's what we got
If the president wants to admit it or not
You can read it in the paper
Read it on the wall
Hear it on the wind
If you're listening at all
Get out of that limo
Look us in the eye
Call us on the cell phone
Tell us all why

In Dayton, Ohio
Or Portland, Maine
Or a cotton gin out on the great high plains
That's done closed down along with the school
And the hospital and the swimming pool
Dust devils dance in the noonday heat
There's rats in the alley
And trash in the street
Gang graffiti on a boxcar door
We can't make it here anymore

Music and lyrics © 2004 by James McMurtry

Depends on the ears doing the listenin' I reckon

Cheers
Paul

Here in Nashville, lyrics are VERY important. I saw the Kingsmen in 1964.

As important as lyric CAN be, it's rather unusual for people to actually know what the lyrics of a song are, even after hearing it dozens of times or more. Ask someone on the street to name 3 of their favorite all time songs. Then ask them to sing it to you (tell them not to worry about the quality, it's not American Idol or Candid Camera) and what you'll find is most know the main hook/chorus line and get much of the rest wrong, especially after the first verse. Sure, there's exceptions, but even on their all time favorites, people often can't get the lyrics right and in many cases, never actually understood all the lyrics. I bet some of you, if you're being honest, would have the same problems if I chose 10 very famous songs you'd heard many times for you to tell me the lyrics to them correctly. Truth is I can't even remember the lyrics to my OWN songs past my most recent ones without lots of rehearsals. BUT...

Most people will very accurately get the melodies right.

Sure, there are exceptions to it all, but go give it a try at your next gathering of friends and family and see what happens. You might be surprised.

Brian

For me, and I'm biased, the lyrics can often say something deep and poignant, which the music doesn't, and maybe can't. I can write a line which explains the whole premise of a song, but I'm not sure that can be conveyed so quickly with music.

Both music and lyrics are key components, but it's like asking how important is sun, compared to rain.

Andy

Lyrics are important to music otherwise singers would have to go "la la la."

A lot of singers DO go la la la or similar meaningless nonesense.......their music is just as successful as the songs with deep meaningful clever lyrics.
I just watched a series of TV programs "Celtic Connections" a festival of International Celtic inspired folk music.....there was a host of diverse genres and famous names from many nationalities. Some performers sang in languages that most of the audience could not understand.....yet all performances were very much appreciated......obviously the music was more important than the lyrics. Lyrics are important but only in context depending on the genre style or purpose of the song.
The Beatles had some real nonesense songs and pretty basic lyrics as well as some of the most profound clever lyrics ever written...yes I agree that lyrics are important but they must be right for the style of song.

Jim,

I have to confess, one of my favourite albums (7 Vies by Tina Arena) is in French and I don't understand a word of it, but it has a magical quality which I enjoy. Largely the instrumentation and arrangement. Her voice has always been great though, so the words don't seem to matter that much.

http://www.amazon.com/7-Vies/dp/B002AXCLVQ/ref=tmm_msc_title_0/185-2419945-2634564

Andy

Well on a twist to that, for me the lyrics must have a unified message. I have no problems listening to music where the lyrics don’t, but the only ones I truly remember the lyrics to, are the ones that do. It also depends on how deep is it supposed to go. Are they nonsense just filling the melody like another instrument, literal telling a story, or subjective relying on imagery or analogies? I like subjective lyrics, because discovering what they artist is trying to say, is like solving a puzzle sometimes. Once you get that, it adds an extra ah ha, to everything else. Pink Floyd “Wish You Were Here” is a good example.

Hey Andy I do not know much about Tina other than her work on Zorro and the song Chains which is one of my all time favs...I cover it. I knew she was Australian but did not realise she spoke French. Must check out that album. Thanks.

I remember when Macy Gray's "I try" first came on the radio. i had to pull over cause the words floored me. When the song is right the words can stop you in your tracks. It depends on the song if the lyrics are important. But the magic are the songs that at certain times you feel your life depends on those words. They got us through the night, gave us the couage to ask the question, and came on the radio when you hear you lost your favorite Uncle. Sometimes they are the milestones in our life.

Thanks for all your comments guys, it's been a while and I am more attentive to lyrics now than I was when I posted this originally. I still find it a damn chore writing them though!

Some interesting points but honestly, a. who cares, b. sounds like small man syndrome to me, c. who cares, d. every time you change variable component of a song you change the demographic of the listening fan group and e. did I say who cares already.

Cheers

from someone who is really tired of "I'm more important cause I can compose" postings.

Lyrics are very important,
singers need something to say and something to sing.
but melody and music are more important.

also different genres put different emphasis on
lyrics, melody and music.

some say country is substance over style and pop is style over substance.
We are all trying to find a new ways to express timeless emotions, universal stituations, feelings and stories.

You know you're on to something great when naked words on a page cause unexpected emotions in you and more importantly in others.

Swag, swag, swag, on you
Chillin' by the fire while we eatin’ fondue"

Justin Bieber...Need I say more?

How important is a lyric ? Not at all if you write instrumentals.

cheers, niteshift

It is a great question. Sometimes it is not very important - a la Diamonds in the Sky.

Tom

Just look at all the different perspectives here.

Now imagine all the different perspectives of the millions of listeners in the world.

My advice: focus on the whole song, and create the sort of thing that really moves you. Any one element--like the lyric--has the power to distract, even derail your focus on creating The Whole.

If one element was more important than all the others, we'd just be listening to bass lines and reading poems.

Create the whole beast.

The relationship between music and lyrics is the one marriage that will never break up. Neither can make it totally on their own. Each compliments and enhances the other. Great topic!!!!!

Remember the song, "Just Walk Away Renee?" I dare you to sing the lyrics...I could never understand a word he was singing...except, "Just Walk Away Renee," so I think the hook theory has a lot of merit.

It is obvious from some of the posts here that some people over emphasis the importance of lyrics....but forget about the really important things like melody, performance and production.
Even hymns are pretty iffy without a good tune and performance.

Gospel need lyrics with a message to be effective.Much of the newer Gospel music I'm seeing has very little message in it,poorly structured and very little rhyme.But it is easy to remember the words because there are so few,therefore they get used in church a lot.

This is a really old topic which has been discussed at length probably 100 times or more over the years. I've also written about it in the newsletter. For me the lyrics are the least important factor in a hit song with the exception of the hook line. But in a few genres it matters more. For most, it's all about the music, the melody, the groove, the drums/beat, and the hook. Production alone can make or break a song regardless of any other factor.

That's not to say it isn't important to motivate composers to write the music.. I think it may impact the melody maker more than the listeners in the end. There are very few songs (if any) where someone can repeat all the lyrics correctly or even understand all the lyrics exactly. Ask anyone to sing the lyrics to their favorite songs and often they can't do it, even though they sing along to parts of it.

Kind of a predictable post and set of responses. There are always exceptions, but the overwhelming evidence tends to pile up in one direction.

Brian

These "kinds" of questions are like "how long is a piece of string?", or "what's the difference between a basketball"?

Without context, or added parameters, they cannot be properly answered.. "it depends" is as close as you can get.

"How important are lyrics?"

I ask that all the time. Some months back, we wrote a blues song about a girl who was nothing more than a teaser/deceiver, who took a man for all he was worth, and then went her merry way. I didn't think it would get a big response; I posted it on Soundcloud and pulled 400+ listens in four days. I was amazed - it is still my most listened to song.

About a week ago, I posted another blues song about gambling addiction. FOUR listens to date. Yup. Lowest one I've ever had. Title is "Gold Bars".....doesn't even allude to the message until you listen carefully to the lyrics....

So - both with what I consider decently crafted lyrics, and great instrumentals, I ask the question - and of course lyrics relate....

1) Why does one song take off into the sky so quickly? Is it because more people relate to it?

2) Is it the music? Should not be....both have a "similar bluesy/drowsy" sound with the same vocal style!

3) Is the second one less popular because the general theme is a negative one? I mean, Clapton? Cocaine? Not even pretending in any way/shape/form this song is ANYWHERE at that level, but addiction is something that has been written about many times before....

What is it then? And how important ARE the lyrics? I wish I knew.

Pop

Ultimately, I believe good lyrics are a bonus.

Many times I'll just hear a song's intro and know I'm going to like it. And, of course, there are many, many popular songs with no lyrics at all.

Song critics, however, take lyrics more seriously. I remember reading an interview with John Denver and he was asked about particular lyrics because the critics were going to hit him for it. If I remember correctly, he said he didn't write for the critics.

I think the question is incomplete.

It's kind of like asking how important is the chord progression?

No real answer.

Firstly, how important for what? and how important to whom?

Does a lyric need to be perfectly crafted, with lots of descriptive words(which often mean nothing) lots of twists and plots(which, who says there are supposed to be)

Even a song with only a few lyrics in it, those few lyrics are still important because they are what the song is made out of.

I dont even think it's genre specific, there are well crafted rock songs, and terribly crafted country songs or folk songs.

It's song specific.

And what is a great lyric? Who says a great lyric has to make one bit of sense. I didnt understand Like A Rolling Stone very well, I didnt understand Hotel California very well, I didnt understand American Pie very well, but those songs took me somewhere. They made an experience when listening, is that what a great lyric does?

I know from my own listening, I pick up lines, words, phrases, that become meaningful to me, all by themselves, completely removed from the total song.

I recall back in high school the Kinks Song "DO It Again"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEw0ZYlpYXE

Alot of the lines resonated with me big time, I never once asked what the song was about, or cared, I just knew i LOVED THIS SONG

and the lyric did play a part in it

Especially this line

"But it's superficial and
It's only skin deep"

not an important part of the lyric but it was the line I kept singing over and over. I remember a friend saying, "man you really like that line"

LoL dont even know why. Some lines just hit us, I dont think you can purposely write like that, it's just the magic of music.

Lyrics can mean everything or very little, depending on the song and the listener.

I was talking to someone on Ohm studio the other night who was hanging around while I laid down a vocal track. Finished, I said" What do you think"?

His answer: "I don't really give a *%@$# about the lyrics or what is being said, I don't listen for that. If the singing goes well with the melody and rest of the music, it's good enough for me. This is what makes all of us different as musicians.....".

Well, that's one observation, right or wrong. This guy is NOT a singer/lyricist, and puts music together through sampling (doesn't play anything). Hmmmm.....

Pop

I think it depends on the style of music. And moreso the style of song.

Most people including myself miss the lyrics to alot of music. But the concepts, the basic idea of what the song is based on, is important.

in comercial pop the main hook might be all there is

"i got the moves like jaggar" I got the moo ooh ooh ooh ohh oves like jaggar"

Somebody had to come up with that lol, seems easy but the combination of melody and lyric in a memorable hook is a definte skill that you can improve and work on

for a blues song, Its more about the perfomances, the grit of the singer, the guitar and piano playing, the breaks. Just get people stomping and your good to go.

But there are alos tons of songs where the lyric is at least important as the music.

"welcome to the hotel california" who thinks of that?

I think the lyrics helps the song become memorable, in combination with the melody. Otherwise, instrumentals would be topping the charts.

I guess the singer has alot to do with it as well, but people do relate or try to relate to lyrics, whether they get the real meaning or not

Here are some catchy songs, that many would attribute to just the production, but i disagree partially, I think the melody and lyric line in the hooks are what does it. Not just the production

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vz5HBbRH4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JV74i4yvcA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejre44FR2oo

I do what is in my mind more then what is formidable. Lyrics are the best to who reviews my recordings, outside of having a recognizable influence.
I must admit that I have heard lyrics that do not seem much to me yet the music carried them.
The music itself can seem unspoken.

Music probably carries most lyrics. But lyrics are meant to be sung, on paper they may not seem like anything at all, but sung they take on a new life. That is why having a good match of melody, music, and lyrics are important, cause they are all saying the same thing.

If you have a message to deliver, something to say,lyrics are important.Something to dance to,lyrics take a back seat.

The real problem here is the question.

It is not a black or white or us vs them situation.

Even WITHIN a piece, there is a beginning, a middle (which you can also break down) and an end...all of them need attention.

Think about hugely memorable songs...take the sax opening in Baker Street, or the organ in Whiter Shade of Pale.

These openings are etched into your mind, I guarantee it...well if you lived through those years.

Then think of your favourite "lyric driven song", your favourite "dance song", your favourite "rhythm song", your favourite "blues song", jazz piece, classical composition, chord progression, bridge etc...all have reasons to be likable and good, and (yuk yuk) sound reasons why they are your favourites.

Now realize art is subjective and your choices are as valid as anyone's

So one person might be blown away by the organ solo and music supporting Whiter Shade Of Pale, while another marvels at the quality of the lyric.

So the answer to "how important is a lyric anyway?" really is "how long is a piece of string?" or "what is the difference between a basketball?"

just stumbled upon this thread .. always a timeless spirited topic among songwriters!

I just had the most fortunate experience to sit with a very well respected Nashville publisher/pitcher and play a few songs live.

I got some great feedback overall. some very specific feedback on the lyrics,regarding imagery others,word choice, etc. Some things I knew and this validated my possible "laziness" and some were quite eye opening. While I always believed in the importance of the lyric ..sitting in this one-on-one session was now convinced of it!
That is until ...
I played this a new uptempo song. I was excited to play this song and get feedback because I really worked on crafting these lyics .. I actually wrote my first 'evolving chorus' .. something I never had the ambition to do in the past. I was waiting for his feedback.
As quickly as I began playing the song, he closed his eyes and his head was moving to the beat of the music all the way til the end of the song ..
His response was AWESOME!! First question.. "Why isn't this song recorded yet?" .. response, "it is new, and currently being recorded on my new album" He responded, "I want a copy as soon as it is done" WOW!!!
I was thrilled!! My first attempt at an evolving chorus was a great success! ..
At least I thought so....
He quickly continued .. I was so drawn into the groove, the melody and your voice .. I was lost in the song! I never even grasped the story!! "GASP" "What!?!?" I wanted to say, "What about my painstaking lyrics & evolving chorus??" I felt myself retreat and responded "That's not a good thing" To which he responded, "NO!! That's a GREAT thing! That's how people listen when they are driving!! They just get caught in the music!"
Ok then! I will send the song to pitch, hopefully it will grab him just the same when he does actually hear the lyrics.

My final verdict.. I guess it depends on the song and maybe genre .. but, I still think it is about the whole song. Great lyrics with a great melody will give an overall great song.

It's crazy, but we keep doing it because we can't help ourselves!
For the love of music,
Joanne

I'm a long time sucker for a great melody, that's what grabs me at first......but.......if the lyrics are fluff, the shine wears off very quickly. Speaking for myself, great lyrics keep me buying/listening for years........great melody has me listening for a minute/days ect.

even if it's lyrically light in message, if it's well said and creative and not over used/over cliche'd......I become a life long fan in most cases.

it is correct to observe that most people can't recite the lyrics to songs, beyond the hook/chorus....but I think most those people don't want a real message, or admire a lyricist's creative way of saying things.....so it doesn't matter to them.

Me?....I usually need the whole package, there are some exceptions that keep me listening due to exceptional musicianship ect......but I mostly gravitate to the whole shebang.

three cents.

Since I like to consider myself good at lyrics, I WISH lyrics were more important. Commercially speaking, I would pick melody over lyrics for 99% of the songs.

But (and this is really an argument to tweak every song to be the best it can be) lyrics do add something, and sometimes that little bit extra can be the difference between being 10 on the charts instead of 11, 100 on the charts instead of 101, 500 instead of 501. and that can be a huge difference in how much airplay it gets.

Then to be the Devils advocate to the devils advocate, I will put out the concept that lyrics are THE ONLY important thing. 200 years from now when most of this era's music is forgotten, people will occasionally talk about John Lennon, perhaps in praise, distaste, or both. But it will be because of the lyrics not the melody of "Imagine".

Here is a theory I developed while sitting at the toilet.

The more of a fan you are of an artists music, the more involved you will be in their lyrics.

I think the only reason people were interested in the beatles lyrics, was because they were such a popular group, and once you bought the record, you find that the lyrics provide some extra entertainment, something you didnt catch the first time around.

I think alot of songs are written to be entertaining first, if you cant entertain somebody, forget anything else. But once they are enterained, then your message can get through.

This way, people can be entertained, and walk away happy, never knowing what was said.

I think Bruce Springsteen was great at that. You didnt have to know any of his lyrics, You could go to a concert and get your ass rocked off, without ever knowing one thing he said. I have spoken with many fans ar concerts, and they really have no idea what his music is all about!

But for the fans who enjoy that, there was more to it.

As a nobody songwriter, I think you have to do more than one thing right. You got to have it all working, music, lyric, performance, recording, production, cause you are up against world beaters in music. You can't half ass anything and be succesfull.

But if writing for your own enjoyment, and not worried about any success, it really doesn't matter what the hell you write!

Flush....

If melody is the most important thing,how come we don't have more instrumentals on the charts? If you are trying to tell a story or convey a message,lyrics are important.

This is true. The song has to be about something, but I think the point being made is, does it matter what is said, so long as something is said.

I think people pick up fragments of lyrics along the way, but if they REALLY like a song, like owning the song, not just hearing it on the radio, then they will seek out the lyrics to get a better understanding of it.

I think at first listen, the hook is the most important thing.

It's kind of like learning guitar. You can play well enough by ear, not really understanding all the theory involved, BUT, the theory is there for those who want to know it.

I'll mame my answer over-simplistic...

I think, more than anything, it depends on genre. In Country and Folk, most people want a story...but more and more, as Country blends with Pop Rock, the music is becoming important to the listener. In Rock and jazz, thre listener is more often drawn in by the music.

Of course there are exceptions. But for the most part, this is waht I have noticed and believe. I've watched the evolution of music since the early 60's...made my first dollar (actually $8.00) in August of 1963. For the most part, what I said in the preceding paragraph has been true from my observations. But other folks may have had differing observations, suggesting something different..

Al

it is genre to a point, but I dont think country is even country any more. So the answer might be different today.

I earned 75 bucks in 1986 for a start, and watch the evolution of music since MTV began. but I listened to all the stuff from the 50's on

But every rock band that I love had great lyrics. Sure there are your Van Halens and jam bands and your fun bands, which is great too, but there are more than a few exceptions.

I recall wearing headphones and taking in every nuance from lyric to guitars in all the classic rock bands from pink floyd to
Van Halen.

I still maintain that it is not the genre, but the person listening. If the person is only halfway involved with the song, the lyric wont matter, but if they live and breath the song, which many people do, then they will know the lyrics.

Maybe country people are inclined to listen for lyrics, so the music accomodates that.

But there are thousands upon thousands of rock songs that have great lyrics.

More 3 cents

Bugsey,

I agree there are many rock songs with fantastic lyrics. But i still wonder if it's the music that first interests the listener or is it the lyric. In other words, is the lyric appreciation incidental to the music first catching the listener's ear..or is it the other way around?

Again i agree with you that the expectations and values ascribed by the listener probably have as much influence as the genre. perhaps we're both right to some degree? Regardless, you started an interesting thread and I;ve enjoyed the comments offered in response to it. Best to ya,

Al

Also Bugsey,

I liked your reply to Everett Adams analogizing the guitar who deosn't know theory with the one who does...nicely done!

I know theory but am self-taught. As Mike Dunbar told me a couple of years ago..."Al, you do know theory (after I said I didn't), you just learned it with a different vocabulary and your self-defined references."

Thank You, I do have my moments.

Yeah, I think it is the music that first attracts the listener, even something as simple as the beat. But if people find themselves moved by a song then the lyrics start to mean something.

We're both right and probably both wrong, we cant look it up in the dictionary and find the right answer!

There are many ways lyrics can add to a song, though. Meaning is just one. The sound of the words is huge. The entertainment the lyrics provide outside of any meaning makes the song even more powerful.

Here is a song by Springsteen which is not one of his big tunes, but to sing along with the words, it's alot of fun, in addition to be being entertaining musically, melodically and it has a meaning to

Basicly saying beauty fades, People need to rely on more than looks for something that lasts

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN20vPIpXMk

Hey Bugsey...

I'll take a listen to that Springsteen soing in a little whuile and get back to you. Thanks for your reply!

for anyone trying to break into the recording side of the industry they are immensely important, so is the melody, so is the hook, and the production...it's all got to be there in "perfect Harmony" to garner that initial attention...every word, phrase, story line, has to fit and roll off the tongue or be so damn catchy every one is singin the sh*t out of the catchy part by the end of the chorus. The part that confuses so many writers is that once you have an established artist, in any genre other than country, they write and record what the hell they want to write and record, and it sells, BECAUSE THEY ARE ESTABLISHED. Yours might be technically, melodically, rhythymically, lyrically better than alot of it, but if you aren't established you don't have that free ticket to the listening party yet. And that's why they keep saying, the networking, business side is a big part of getting where you wanna get...always has been, always will be. We all know there are thousands of hits that the lyrics are just so so...but they're catchy as hell in some aspect. Then there are lyrical masterpieces like American Pie that remain timeless. Hit Songs have IT, That IT can come in one or several areas of the song, doesn't have to be the lyrics, but it sure doesn't hurt. If the melody sucks, a great lyric ain't going anywhere. Saw the Beach Boys and Jeff Beck this week, WOW , really reminded of what a great composer Brian Wilson was and is...there are some catchy tunes, with strong hooks, great harmonies, and HIT MELODIES. Help Me Rhonda, Surfin USA, etc...absolutely timeless.

I may have 2-3 books of Poetry here...but I have 100s of CDs... &..I'm primarily a Lyricist, since I play Zero Instruments.

&, while I LOVE good Lyrics, I'll be the first to admit ya don't hear ANY hit songs that don't have Great Melodies/Catchy Rhythm/Pretty Good Vocals.

Somewhere during My Formative Years I heard "Hit Songs are about 70% Melody/30% Lyrics to be Successful." It's a decent Stat...when ya think about it. On-Average.

BUT..on-occasion...there'll always be that Lyrically-Based Mega-Hit....like "The Wind Beneath My Wings"...that Lyrics went above-&-beyond The Minimum-Necessary... &..I'm sure each can name Quite a Few Others.

I didnt hear back from Al David on the song I provided.

I was kind of hoping he'd say something about it, so I could make another point.

I reckon he's working on his writing.

I gave a first impression meaning of the song, about a girl who survives on her looks,and the singer is warning her about what happens when it all goes.

But, there is a second entirely different meaning to this song. Albeit, a hidden one.

This is where my point about being involved with the artists music, makes you pay attention to the lyrics.

Knowing when it was released, during all the kaos about Bush allegedly starting a war without warrant

on the flip side of this song is an ANTI BUSH song!

And if you know Bruce, you know he despised Bush.

I dont agree with some of his politics, but I choose not to let it interfere with my enjoyment of his music.

I take what I want out of it, and I choose to hear a song about a the girl. On other occasions, I might choose to go along with his ideas.

But for sure, this shows that not only do lyrics mean something and matter, they can mean TWO completely different things,
and if done right can work equally well for both.

Just Amazing, and to make the song fun on top of it all for those who dont care about either meaning.

But closer look at the lyrics reveals it:

White Roses and Misty Blue eyes
Red Mornings but nothing but gray skies

Colors of the flag hey? And the gray skies? He's saying that those colors are gray as were not being true to the colors.(again,
I dont agree with all of his politics, and I wont opine on this either)


The chorus

"You'll be coming Down" A warning to a girl, but also a warning to the administration that we are going to get backlash for it.

Easy Street, A Quick Buck and True Lies (War makes money, Lying about why we are going to war)

Smiles as thin as those dusky Blue Skies. (fake)

Silver plate of pearls my golden child (Golden Child=slang, A person amongst a populace who everyone seems to love no matter what)

Etc Etc, now when you listen, you will see two possible, completely different meanings here.

Lyrics Matter, sometimes they matter twice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN20vPIpXMk

The lyric is unimportant unless it is really necessary

This debate has gone round and round since the dawn of JPF some 13 14 years ago.

Music is art. There is no general statement that applies. It's like asking, how important is the guitar anyway?, how important is the keyboard anyway?, how important is the bass anyway? how important are the drums anyway?

Looks like it's gonna take another video to end this debate:

This poor guy was once a NFL football player. I know what it's like to relate to music so much myself, and I know lyrics matter, depending on who is listening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLHPm_8_Yis