JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Christianity Question...

Ya got me Jim. I was born a Christian and never once, never never never had any doubt or questions or concerns about blindly following every word in the Bible...

Nope. Not me. I'm incapable of anything resembling rational thought and have decided to be content in my stupid ignorance because apparently I'm too dumb to form an independent thought that might lead me to making an effort to try any make sense of contraditions...

Yeap, that's me. No need to worry or struggle or try to make sense of my faith. No midnight questions that leave me sleepless.

Thanks for pointing that out...

I DO have one scriptural question though, that I would be happy to have someone answer.

When they brought that chick who'd been accused of adultery to Jesus...Why did he bend down and write in the dirt?

Actually, that's a rhetorical question. I know why...And the answer is fascinating.

Midnite

Sometime in the 1400's or 1500's Martin Luther broke with the Catholic Church. There have been a lot of seperations since. So who opened Pandora's box? Who enticed Adam to eat the Apple? How did we all get here? Who knows. No one can answer that question. So write a hit and live happy ever after!

The earth is flat, you just don't want to believe it!

The only logical explanation is life has a creator. If I found an amazing music manuscript buried deep in the Amazon rainforest, to believe in anything other than it's a work of a creator (composer), would be illogical. And the creation of man and everything on Earth is far more complex than a music manuscript. It didn't happen by accident - it was created.

Now the Bible, we all know didn't happen by accident. The question is, who is/are the creator(s)?

John

Sausage..... that is ridiculous now you are clutching at straws....... without mentioning the Bible which I dispute is accurate or factual please show me PROOF that your belief is based upon anything other than imagination and man made folklore....you cannot....that is why it is a belief.......based on nothing but ignorance hope and imagination.....now I know my car is outside...cause I parked it there....I can see it and touch it.......that is not a belief it is a fact..and if it gets stolen then that is fact also...America is there....fact......as for God well nobody has seen him or touched him apart from in their imagination...so he cannot be a fact....Now my car and God/religion have things in common...they have both been manufactured by man.......and they both have flaws cause my brand new car is displaying a warning light.....Now when it comes to the Bible there are warning lights galore. I could write a book about the things God has done and said according to the Bible that go against my basic morals...and even his teachings..I can supply an abbreviated list of some of these if you want.

Everett you are a good man I could never call you stupid and would censure anyone who does......if you have inferred that from any of my posts then that was not my intention.......for the record I talk of ignorance......ignorance and stupidity are two different things. Ignorance simply means a lack of knowledge or understanding of facts.....there are certain topics or subjects in which I am truly ignorant....that does not mean I am stupid and that goes for you and everyone else......ignorance does not mean stupid.

I can't see how I'm clutching at straws. I have nothing to prove. In fact, Jim, I've already said several times I can't give you proof. Can YOU think of anything I can do to prove to you the Bible is true? Can you think of any proof you would accept?

There are things I don't like in the Bible also but it's like I 've told people: "I don't make the rules, I don't always follow the rules, I don't like some of the rules, but the rules are the rules."

Thank you Jim, I try to be good but there is none good but God. I think you are a good man and an intelligent person with great passion for things. You are like Saul who became Paul after his eyes were opened to the truth that Jesus was the Son of God. Paul poured his energy into preaching the Gospel, the same energy he used to fight the Gospel before he learned the truth. I've always believed in God but for the first half of my life I was in the Devils camp, I was not bad as some count badness, but I had not accepted Jesus as my Saviour,so I was not "for" God. He who is not for me is against me, the bible says, there is no neutral ground in this spiritual battle for man's soul.

I love you man with the love of the Lord. I just pray that you will have a Saul/Paul experience, because I know you would make a strong Christian and a powerful advocate for God. I'll pray for you unless you tell me not to. I will respect your wishes, just as the Holy Spirit will not force Himself on someone against their will.

I know God exist, I've had enough things happen in my life that I could see His hand working, even through using my music to touch people's lives, people that I've never met. God is GOOD.

I don't care if there is a God because I have no reason to.

To those who will say it is because of my youth, I say you only think that because of your beliefs.

The purpose of spirituality is to seek understanding; the purpose of religion is to seek reward.

Dear Meg:

What a sad commentary you bring to us. I can't imagine a world without God. I don't care what you call Him... the Native Americans used several meaningful descriptions... but they believed. Our history is steeped in religion... not all of it good... especially when the hand of man becomes involved.

God is love and the source of all goodness. Without him, we are nothing... only dust upon the wind. Is God tangible, visible, provable... no! He must be accepted by faith alone.

Please don't mistake believing in God as a requirement for one to belong to a Church, Synagogue or Mosque... or other organized group of believers... but it sure helps. Sharing ideas, caring for the infirm and fallen, breaking bread together... it all adds up to good. Where would this world be without goodness?

I understand your thoughts about rejection. We live in a world that has started to become tainted with evil. Television and the media are the main culprits... constantly injecting thoughts meant to lure us from the path of goodness.

Be strong and search your soul in those quiet times when you are filled with doubt. God will speak to you.

I get what you're saying about the belonging to a church and not believing--I'm Jewish.

I'm sort of...disillusioned, I guess...perhaps disenchanted with the idea of salvation and going to heaven. I just think that it shouldn't matter what happens to us when we die. After all, we're dead.

Of course, opinions have no affect on what is real anyhow, and the only way to know if any of it is real is to die, a sacrifice I'm not willing to make just yet.

Hey Meg:

Jewish, Methodist, Bhuddist... it does not matter. IMHO... we all worship the same Diety... maybe in different ways. The concept of Heaven, Nirvana, The Happy Hunting Grounds is still not well understood by many scholars and stumblebums, like me.

Be happy. Live life. Do good things.

The Bible is as confusing now as it ever was.

Interesting thread.
I'm almost with Big Jim on this one but not quite. I consider myself Agnostic. I used to be religious Agnostic. Went to church but really doubted there is a God.

As I got older, watched my kids die, learned about death, Started seeing the world around me through blood stained glasses I come to the conclusion that if there is a God he sure made a hell of a mess of things.
Now today I feel even stronger that a God is unlikely. Just look at our own Galaxy, Millions of stars and we are but a speck in the whole mess.
The condition of humankind as we know it is terrible, Kids with Autism, Kids with all kinds of diseases right out of the gate, never having a chance at a decent life.
Murders, rapes, slave trade, Wars, serial killers. It never ends, goes on and on.
Then look at the way we dehumanize each other. My own ancestors died in a Civil War Prisoner of war camp, Andersonville, Georgia. 45,000 men were held there and nearly one third of them died of disease and starvation. This is what we do to each other.

Look at the way the largest religion in the world treats anyone who does not believe as they do. They murder them by the hundreds of thousands.
Nazi Germany Killed Millions, where was the victim's God when all that was going on.

Then we have the Catholic Church and it's pedophiles, Jim Jones, David Koresh, It goes on and on.
John Wayne Gacey, Jeffery Dahmer, and so on

Personally I think mankind is basically evil. There is just too much misery in the world for good to be the common thread.
We even kill to live. It is animals but we kill them non the less.

I sit outside at night sometimes and look at the heavens and wonder if this is all there is. I think not. We are probably not alone in the Universe. I can't help but believe there must be intelligent life out there somewhere.

If there is I sure hope they are having a better time of it than we here on earth are because other than the fact life can be good for some folks I think most of us are miserable pathetic creatures that have the unfortunate circumstance of knowing some day in the near future we will cease to exist.
And that just sucks.

There's no way in HELL {pun intended}that anything good is gonna come from this thread.. Just a humoungous Sh... er FIRESTORM! Discussing religion on ANY forum is never a good idea!

There's no way in HELL {pun intended}that anything good is gonna come from this thread.. Just a humoungous Sh... er FIRESTORM! Discussing religion on ANY forum is never a good idea!

There's no way in HELL {pun intended}that anything good is gonna come from this thread.. Just a humoungous Sh... er FIRESTORM! Discussing religion on ANY forum is never a good idea!

What's that Bob? Didn't quite catch it

Actually you are right let's close it now and move on, or stick it on a different part of the board (so it's not the first thing a guest would see). Anyone just dipping in here at JPF would see Politics, Petrol (gas), Religion and maybe think 'not much songwriting going on here'

Faith and religion are two different things Jim. I have faith but not religion... althougth I class myself as a Christian... ie someone who follows the teachings of Jesus... (do not judge others on hearsay (the story of the stoning), do not be greedy share what you can spare, ( sermon on the mount-loaves and fishes) and that there is good and bad in all cultures rellgions countries and communities ( the story of the good samaritan [sp])).

Whether or not you believe in God, I do not believe is important, neither is whether or not you have religion (there are many folk out there that have religion but no faith.. they are the ones who say "how could God let this happen"?)... if you are a good person in harmony with you life, family, community and other peoples, then you will have your place in "heaven" already set aside.

hmmm sounding like a sermon... I should stop before someone flings a lightning bolt

Cheers

We all need God,whether we admit it or not.Life would not exist without God. Man's heart is evil,the bible says that,there's none good only God. The Devil preys on the evil in men's hearts while God looks for any good He can find in man. I'm not religious, I'm Christian, there is a difference.There is only one God,all other gods are false and man made. There is only one way to the true God, and that is through His son,Jesus Christ. Anyone that tries to come any other way, is a robber and a thief.

Hi John,

I haven't read anyone else's response. I've been a Christian for a lot of years and I still ask some of these questions. I'm not sure anyone's going to be able to answer them. Personally, I'm not particularly happy with the 'joy on the other side' and 'free from suffering' answers that you typically hear at funerals and around death-beds. I don't disagree with any of them. But even long time Christians often don't sound utterly convincing to me when uttering these semi-platitudes.


Maybe Heaven is complicated?

I really don't know. Personally, I don't like singing 'In the Sweet Bye and Bye'.

Personally, I believe in God. I believe Jesus died for my sins. I think the Bible gives us a pretty good picture of that. I think a lot of what is communicated about heaven is pretty speculative.

Basically, I don't know the answer to your questions. But it doesn't stop me from being a Christian.

Peace,

Ian

You cant figure things out in a rational human manner, because you are talking about something so unworldly nobody has ever seen or heard of it before...HEAVEN.

The same thing could be said for a guy who marries twice, after his first wife dies, what happens when they all meet in Heaven? Who sleeps on the couch?

You will never apply logic to the spiritual rhealm, words are used to help humans communicate, beyond that, it's all a crap shoot.

What happens is we try to make Heaven a "place" where people walk around and talk and jog and watch Tv and work out, it's not going to be a gym, it's a spiritual existence, so you probably wouldnt recognize anybody anyway, you are now a spirit and not a human being.

I understand why people are Atheists, anybody who thinks logically, would not accept the dogma so willingly.

But for me, it's just as difficult to believe there is NO God, to there IS one?

Questions like:

How did the universe get here? Whether you say God, or something else, it's still mind boggling. if you say the universe started with the big bang, what came before the big bang? What caused it, and most of all why?

We are sitting on a songwriting board in 2012, because of some freak explosion billions of years ago? That's just as unbelievable as No God.

Of course we can see the stars and the planets, so we tend to believe that before something spiritual, but why couldnt the two ideas coexist?

I dont believe anybody has answers for either side of the fence, all i can say is take the words and apply them in your life.

Do unto others as you would have them do to you? Makes perfect sense, coming from God, or anybody else.

People get caught up in the technicalities of Religions, they dont apply them to their life. Many religious people are the most selfish, nastiest people u'd ever want to meet, but they read the bible and go to church every week.

I dont think that's the intent.

We'll never figure it out, just live like you were dying.

I am an Atheist simply because my logic dictates that the religious writings and teachings do not make sense and the very existence of God is preposterous. That said there is good and there is evil and basic instincts. IMO you do not NEED God or religion to know the difference between right and wrong and to live a life of good. Many religious types spend their lives immorally doing nothing but harm to others. Others who have no faith have morals and compassion to others. Even for a believer it must be HELL trying to figure out which beliefs are true and which are false......they cannot all be right. How do you KNOW that you are right and all others are wrong...there is no proof either way. You do not need a god to do good...but history has proved and will continue to prove that many wrongs are done in the name of god or are done with HIS blessing. If religious folk stopped second guessing or interpreting GOD'S way and got on with simply doing good for good's sake instead then the world would be a better place....Religion has been used as a control mechanism for the rich and powerful and a means to dupe people into doing others bidding.....How can anyone strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves and others to smithereens cause it is God's will.......does not compute......and if it IS God's will then it is no God I would ever have anything to do with.

i think you should stop questioning yourself these things and just live your life
if you want my opinion,i don`t believe nothing

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to the saved it is unto salvation.

There is no "proof" for religion. It's a set of beliefs, many people claim they were healed from illness from Jesus, there is no way to "prove" Jesus did it, but they were healed.

Same thing with drugs and alcohol addiction, many claim Jesus saved them. You can not prove He didn't, you can not prove he did.

it;s a personal thing. You can not prove premonitions, you can not prove deju vu, you can not prove "knowing" something was going to happen.

You can not prove patience is a virtue, you can not prove love conquers all.

Yes, even in the same Religions there are conflicts, in Christianity, one dispute over a scripture can cause another subdivision of the Religion.

it's not about sitting there with a magnifying glass and playing detective. It's about experiencing God. Some people do some dont.

But dont mix the two, proof does not play a role in it, never will.

Here we go again Jim,

By now of course, we are all quite aware that you are an atheist. My question is why you hold an evangelistic zeal to turn others to your way of thinking? You say that your sense of logic dictates that the religious writing and teachings do not make sense and the very existence of God is preposterous. Preposterous means by definition that something is totally against nature, reason or common sense. It is wholy against nature, reason and common sense that everything came out of nothing without a catalyst born of intelligence. It doesn't happen anywhere at any time in your god of science. Everything has a cause and effect in an observable system of 4 diminsions as our Universe is thought to be. Everything! If not, give me one example of cause without effect in the known Universe. Who or what caused the "Big Bang" in the first place which set in motion a Universe where there is always a cause for every effect?

Yet once again I implore you to look at the issue without religion or man and simply from a common sense approach, not about any one religion being true but instead, merely the question of a Creator's existance.
Stating that the existance of a Creator is preposterous indicates logically that you assume to possess infinite knowledge of all there is. Therefor, ipso facto, you are your own god. That must be a tremendous responsibilty for you.

In your world there is, in reality, no good or evil. Everything just IS. Everything you do is neither good or evil according to your own personal convenience at the moment. Why? Because without a law giver there is no law. It's just that Big Jim has decread that one act is good and another evil. Argue that point with me. Concepts of good and evil are all in your own imagination and nothing more.

Seems you must have been in the Garden of Eden and you partook of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and have become like God, or became A god , knowing good and evil. Man, what a paradox!!!

Those are the only points I'll ask you at this time. More to come I'm sure. I await your next sylable with great anticipation.

But again, why do you feel such an evangelistic zeal to convert others to your way of thinking about the matter at hand here? Because atheism is in fact your religion? Religion by definition is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. Sounds a lot like your belief system Jim, with the exception of ritual observances.

Stevie

Humm,
Perhaps we should go back to John's original Question. If John goes to Heaven but his son's don't will he be happy in Heaven knowing his two sons are not there.

This is one of those "Pointed" quastions you will probably never hear asked or broached in church. There are lots of questions that will never be asked in church, just a message of how you should live without looking below the surface.

When such questions are asked, and disagreements happen some will leave that church for another.

There are many different opinions out there of which shines a light on Organized Religion. The jury is still out on orgaized religion but you don't have to ask me. With so many brands of religion the answer is self evident.

A lot of facts in the Bible are ignored by the best of paople practiceing their religion. I have found the people closest to religion know the least about it. Someone said something and someone else repeats it until it became fact. Then someone checks and finds it isn't fact and an argument ensues.

I have done an extremely detailed study of religion over the last 60 years. I did it to defend myself. When someone approachs me on the subject of religion I can speak to the facts without any difficulty. Some people go into religion with the best of intentions. Most still have a lot to learn. And the best of those scholors are still debating the "Facts" of religion. Lead on.

Thanks Ray! I realize my question can't be answered, but because of recent deaths in my family, I've been struggling with this.

John

Would you expect an answer? The Bible doesnt have all the answers, it's just a blueprint for basic living.

I explained before, there is no recognition of face, that's a human characteristic. there is no meeting place where everybody gets together and has a laugh.

It's a spiritual state. There is no Ray Strode, there is no December Rock Star, it's just energy, a spirit.

To say we will know who is in heaven and who isnt is to say we know what wind we just felt on our backs. try finding that same wind that hit you.

Spirit is like the wind.

Not speaking about Jim, but I find many atheists love the opposition they get when they speak about it.

They love breaking down the "silliness" of God, and taunting peoples emotions. They feel smart

There have been many times I said, this is rediculous, there is NO god, plain and simple. Cause logic and spirituality dont jive with each other.

Other times, when overwhelmed with the thought, I say there is a god.

I'd say 99.99% of us are not sure either way, we fake our way on both sides of the argument.

who the hell could figure out this place?

"It's a spiritual state. There is no Ray Strode, there is no December Rock Star, it's just energy, a spirit" - December Rock Star

Then again, we don't know this either. We won't know anything till the fat lady sings - and then maybe not...

Best, John

John,

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about the deaths in your family. I've been through a similar situation in the past few years. Believe it or not, it makes you stronger.

When much loved people die, I like to think there is a heaven of some sort. Maybe not the simplistic idea of a people floating around in white robes, but free from earthly constraints.

For me, those who died are living in our memories. That's how they carry on in life. We living souls have been handed their spirit, and we accept it, and carry on with our own enriched life.

Heaven and hell is a very human concept. I don't believe it's that clear cut. The only time I will be able to know what happens after death is the very time when my brain will cease to function.

However, I hope we all live on in the minds of others.

All the best,

Andy

Same reason all of us try to convert disbelievers... he wants to save us from our own stupidity....

read the posts we are all trying to convince someone of something we believe is right....

Without faith we can not please God,if we had proof we would not need faith.

When we are raised from the grave we will have glorified bodies,but we will still be able to be recognized by those that know us. Jesus was recognized by those that knew Him before. Most all the answers are in the bible, but the bible must be read with your mind and heart open, searching for the truth,not for trying to defend yourself against others or trying to prove believers wrong.Twisting the Gospel to suit your own beliefs or desires have went on for hundreds of years.Seek the truth and you will find,knock and it will be opened unto you. THERE IS A GOD.Meet Him now as your saviour or meet Him later as your judge. The choice is your.

I hear more people talk about going to heaven when they die, but not so many people talk about coming from heaven when they were born. Surely, birth is more miraculous than death.

Just a thought!

Andy

Yes, and if we can be born and exist once (mind boggling), it can't be ruled out to happen again. Being an end in ourselves just doesn't seem convincing to me. Unless our existence is for another unimaginable purpose other than ourselves.

John

John,

We are, after all, the personification of energy. Where that energy goes is anyone's guess. So, I'm thinking we have to go somewhere when we die, if only as displaced energy.

I guess we are created from the energy of our parents, so re-birth isn't such a far fetched concept.

Andy

Well I have said it before and I'll say it again.

If the day comes where I must stand before a God and explain why I don't kneel for him he will have to explain a whole lot of things to me. Like where was he when I needed him.
Then we'll talk.

I feel a lyric coming on!

I'm not Christian, but I've lived around Christians my whole life. I don't like religion, but I find it unavoidable lately. I prefer spiritualism and spiritual wholesomeness. But as I said, religion is unavoidable, especially Christianity.

That being said, I think the concept of being born again is faulty. It seems like an excuse for everything that's been done in the past. I believe your life is a permanent record, and no amount of prayer or promises of change can take away what you've done. I don't think it will hold up, come your visit to the pearly gates. Life is lived once, do the best you can while you can, and you won't have to worry about it in the future.

Personally, Christianity seems built around reward. Religion shouldn't be about reward, it should be about faith. Faith in what you believe in, and your higher power giving you the strength to pull through whatever troubles you're going through. Heaven seems to be the biggest reward of them all, and the guidelines given for this reward are preposterous and nearly impossible to live by for an extended period of time.

But I guess, the only way to ultimately find out is to die.

Bill,
Some think there is Chaos in the Universe and some think there is Destiny. With Chaos you have Free Will, (Prayer) and can fix anything you want to. With Destiny everything is on a fixed path and you cannot change anything, you just go thru everything as it comes.

Now with Free Will you might fix something to your satisfaction but someone else may not like what you have done and change it to suit them. You can see the problem. God does what is needed no matter what the consquenses because it has to be for the Universe to continue. I don't blame God for anything as it is not necessary. Everything is OK, as it should be. We all go thru things we don't like. So enjoy what you have. It will all work out.

There is such a lack of knowledge of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the bible here,that I just shake my head in disbelief. Knowledge is aquired by studing a subject.I admit the bible is not an easy book to read and understand, but if I can do it,you can too.

A man can not be born and come back the second time, the bible says it is appointed to man ONCE to die and then the judgement. If a man keeps coming back until he gets it right, then he will be dying many times. There is a religious group that believes in this principle, but they are wrong.

Our salvation is not based on our holiness or on good works, it is based on our faith in Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made that paid for our sins. If we repent of our sins and confess that we believe Jesus is the Son of God, and that He died for our sins and rose again, we are saved. It is as simple as that. It is all there in the bible, read and believe. Those that don't believe will think this is foolishness, but the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.

I know it is easy to poke fun at those that believe, but it won't be a laughing matter when you stand before God and still have to pay for your sins, the same sins that Jesus paid for but you wouldn't accept His payment, so now you will have to pay yourself. You won't even be able to plead ignorance, cause I just told you, and there are plenty of bibles available for purchase in the US and Canada, not like some countries where they are not available.

Everett, There are many "Experts" still deciding what it what in Religion. And there is still a ton of studying for many to actually get the facts concerning religion.

Didn't Jesus say, There will be many False Prophets. He should have included himself in that group.

One thing that has always disgusted me is someone that suddenly "Discovers" Religion and suddenly becomes an Expert on the subject.

I will say, loud and clear, you need to do a lot more studying on the subject before you start prophetising. You spout the official line that not everyone agrees with.

The old leaders, in Jesus time did not agree with him. Why do you think that is? Jesus appointed himself to whatever he thought he was. He didn't realise the truth until he was about to be put on the cross. Read it Everett. Study it. He didn't eaxctly volunteer to be nailed to the cross. There was a price on his head. He recieved a Crown of Thorns for his trouble. Study it Everett. Today religious pundits ignore the facts and gloss ovet the truth. The Wise men were looking for a King of the Jews. Over the centuries it got muddled. Of course anyone that speaks the facts in a church setting today would be shunned. Dig out the facts Everett. You might be surprised.

Folks, the truth is nobody REALLY knows.

We can believe in the bible, but what if we dont have the REAL bible, maybe somebody swiped it many centuries ago and put their own take on it.

Prayers dont always get answered, we know this. Bad things are going to happen every day.

The universe seems to be a designed place, there are many amazing "coincidences" that led to life. But then again, if god designed it, why are there so many genetic problems. People born with one leg, or no liver.

Why do we seemingly get pummelled by tsunamis and hurricanes and tornados, and asteroids out in space.

You would think an intelligent designer would make it so those things didnt affect us.

So to claim you have an great understanding of God, is nonsense.

Nobody does. We are all faking it till we make it.

To answer somebodys question earlier.. would an atheist be saved?

I would say yes. God created us to be curious, to be skeptical, and to doubt. Being a doubter is very useful in the world. it prevents you from believing in stupidity, it prevents you from being swindled, or injured etc.

if you have your doubts that you could jump of the empire state building and survive, you probably have good reason to doubt it!
I dont know any christian who would jump off believing god would save them. He wont, we know this.

if we are to find our spiritual side, you have to forget this place. Stop looking for concrete answers, we dont have them.

If you meditate, you can start to see you have a spiritual side. I do it from only 5 10 minutes a day. I dont want to start wearing a toga, and carrying a tambourine, but i find it useful in many ways.

'Different strokes for different folks'. I would never condemn anyone for having faith. If that faith gives a meaning to life, that's great.

Everett, it's not only studying a subject which gives us knowledge, it's about our life experiences too, and what we learn from living on this planet. Don't assume everyone here (JPF) is unlearned.

It's no surprise that this thread has 5 pages, it's a fascinating subject to which none of us have a definitive answer, purely our own educated guess.

Animals are said to have spiritual experiences, according to neurologists. Spirituality comes from primitive parts of our brains. Perhaps animals will experience a re-birth too, although I doubt it's because they have studied The Bible.

It's a big subject alright!

Andy

John,

All Christians don't believe all the same things. That's why there are so many Christian denominations. The same holds true about other religions. There are many variations. Many believers are select about what they believe when it comes to their own religion but don't necessarily share that information with other believers because they want to be a part of the community. Many believers accept the teachings of their chosen religion but may also augment those beliefs with other teachings not promoted by their religion.

Some people believe that the scriptures are allegorical and are not to be taken literally, some believe that all should be taken literally and some believe that the scriptures are a combination of both.

This causes a lot of conflict when it comes to questions like the one you asked.
Sometimes it's better to look at what the scriptures don't say.

They don't say if our personality and memories continue after death. If memories and personality don't continue, then neither do the worries and suffering.

They don't say if we get a chance to believe after our death. (The Good Thief was not baptized but was told by Jesus that he was going to be in Paradise with Him. )

Our understanding of the spiritual world is very limited, despite what others may say. We can never make sense of it. God is too immense for us to understand, so why bother. The Ten Commandments of the Old Testament and the two commandments that Jesus gave us is enough to keep us busy without worrying about who goes to heaven and who doesn't.

"They don't say if our personality and memories continue after death. If memories and personality don't continue, then neither do the worries and suffering" - Jean

But then, do we really exist without our personalities and memories? I would hate to continue the afterlife without them. Kind of like a living deception.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jean.

Best, John

Your looking at it the wrong way. According to spiritualists, our existence has nothing to do with our mind and body. They are just here for the short term.

Your basing all your questions on the here and now. What happens to a person who loses their memory? Alzheimers or something else. They dont know who they are half the time, let alone anyone else, but they are still walking around and experiencing.

Some say the body was something our spirits jump into and leave when it's time.

I have asked every question you have asked, we wont know until we die. But you wont figure anything out thinking like a human being, we are just animals with a slightly better IQ.

better to live like an animal and never have to ask such questions.

Humans are the only species that can question our existence, and know that we are going to die at some point. We are priviledged in that way, but it makes for a great headache.

Monkees dont worry about anything, they just swing off their tree and eat a banana, maybe thats how we should live.

I have no tree.

On the topic of monkeys.

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2011/03/07/what-can-we-learn-from-bonobos/

Donna

John ... you forgot the second part of my answer

I believe that God is all loving and forgiving both before and after our deaths. Who's to say that we don't get a second chance to join God in heaven?