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We are now paying $1.39 a liter, the last time we paid that much, oil was about $140.00 a barrel, but right now it is around the $100.00 mark. Someone is gouging us.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

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It is now at the highest price for this time of year - per NBC report - on a nationwide average. The increase in price is because of speculation over what will happen in Iran.

Tom


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$2.13 litre

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Nothing, but then my breath smells like gasoline smile

CDN $1.41 litre last time I filled up...but my Acura takes premium gas. Regular was $1.26


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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We pay about what amounts to 2,31 USD a liter here now. Prices is sky rocketing, and I even deliver 50%+ of all earnings in taxes. Scandinavia is great, but the cost of living is very high.

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$1.24 in Hamilton yesterday. It seemed to jump up a little for the holiday weekend. Coincidence I'm sure, no gouging, that would never happen. wink

Andy


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$3.24 a gallon in Texas

glyn

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Something to remember in the US is that the closer it gets to spring break and summer vacation time the higher the gas prices are. We are all being gouged just because they can do it. If I could ride a bike with my kids on it everywhere, I would.


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This afternoon, on the way home from the golf course, gasoline in Glen Rose, Texas ranged from $3.50 to $3.41 (US Dollars) per gallon of gasoline (petrol). Prices vary all over the map in Texas but historically, I hate to say, it appears that Glen Rose is the capital of Gasoline gouging. I recently drove south through Meridian (30 miles south of here) and gasoline was .25 cents per gallon less expensive. (What is wrong with this picture?)

I believe our government should fix gasoline prices as they did in WWII to prevent speculators and unscrupulous operators from bilking the public. Our economy is in trouble and workers (in all fields of employment) are impacted severely by these ridiculous price swings... nearly always upward and seldom the other way. Hopefully, the current administration will see the error in its ways and open exploration and oilfield operations full tilt to stem the tide of foreign mood swings.

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$3.47 a gallon, Portsmouth, Ohio.


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I got a bargain of 4.05 for the cheapest regular price east of L.A. Gas prices are close to hitting the $5.00 mark in some areas nearby.

The good thing is that so many people are unemployed they don't have to buy much gas to get to work here in sunny California!

Doug


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I'd love to have a horse and buggy to go to church on Sundays....


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$3.57 a Gallon today...& a barrel of crude oil's again up to $l20-per. UGH!

& those BIG Hunkin' Black SUVs just keep Whizzin'-Past Me-doing the-speed-limit on the Interstate, Daily...& I wanna shoot-out their tires...as they Scoot-By..Guzzlin'-Away...

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AUS $1.65 a litre, or US $6.43 per US Gallon.

cheers, niteshift

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$3.59 A GALLON IN NASHVILLE-AS OF TODAY ANYWAY

Tom

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Crude oil yesterday hit $106.00 a barrel. The news said it could reach $150.00 later this year. If it does we'll be paying Brittish prices too.Sorry Nigel,I guess our prices look good to you,we are not use to paying this high, and we are an oil producing province, good for our government but not good for us poor workers. Those electric cars are starting to look good right now. Not much good for long trips though.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

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$3.41/gal. at the cheap station -- the Costco, which is up from $3.21/gal. from the day before.

I would love to take the train to work, or bike to work, but my office is 33 miles each way and there is no train route that connects directly from my area to my near my office.
To train it, I would have to go first into downtown, then up to the closest train station, then take a bus to the office. (And, then in reverse.) Would add 3 hours to my commute EACH WAY. I'm screwed.

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I just bought a 3/4 ton HD diesel Pickup so gas prices are beyond me now. But diesel is more expensive than gas. Which I don't understand. It used to be cheaper.

But the electric car idea is a little challenging.
I could buy a well equipped Chevy Malibu for about $16,000 less than the Volt Electric. And you still have to buy Gas for the Volt if you want to go further than 30 miles.

How much gas can I buy for $16,000.
A lot

There are people converting used smaller cars into Electric. If you don't need more than about 40 miles you can build one for around $10,000 - $12,000


Bill
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3.47 to 3.53

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Anybody ever try those conversion kits that make cars run on water?


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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Last time at the pump about 5 days ago 3.89 for low grade

Cheers
Paul


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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Anybody ever try those conversion kits that make cars run on water?

Check out the artificial leaf

Cheap hydrogen from water and sunlight. And they're not even going to try marketing it in the US due to anticipated opposition, obstinacy and resistance from the oil industry.

There's other incredible technoligies that we're NOT adopting! We could be 99% independent from fossil fuels in 10-20 years if we had the national will. It's not going to happen though. Because Exxon and Shell get a bigger vote than you and me.

IMO of course!

Peace,

Ian


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I get all the gas I need for about $2.50 at Taco Bell.

Sorry....

Midnite


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laugh laugh laugh


My Music at Soundclick
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Always open to collaborations smile

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The chili dog was $2
A bunch of broccoli $3
The black bean soup was $5
That totals $10 for me!!
laugh


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To answer the question, we're still paying less than half what Europe is paying thank god. Our administration of course has repeatedly stated they want high gas prices and the current energy secretary said he wants our prices to match Europe which is 9-10 dollars per gallon. Yee ha!

To Ian: I have been a huge advocate of hydrogen fuel. 60 minutes did an episode on it in 2007 or 2008 and they drove one, it got fantastic mileage, only put out water vapor, and at that time, even at prototype stage, they cost 46K for the engines. However, they expected full production models to cost under 30k going to market the next year. So what happened? 2 things. First, the car company crashed. Who was it? GM. What else happened? One of the first directives when our current administration took over was that they MUST 100% KILL the entire Hydrogen program and instead place all their resources on... wait... wait...

The Chevy VOLT! The biggest car disaster since the Edsel. Thanks to the same people who want $10 gas.

Perhaps it's not just oil to blame or perhaps oil control the current administration even more than the last one and when GM became Government Motors they were perfectly set up to crush a far superior and practical alternative fuel based car. Thanks Government! Now all that technology has been shelved. We can only hope Ford, the last AMERICAN car company was working on the technology, but nothing public that I aware of.

Electric cars STILL use mostly coal powered electricity and are still woefully inadequate for most of the American culture. We had cars in the late 70's that got over 50 MPG made by VW for example. Now you can't find much that gets over 38. Even the tiny cars don't. Our diesel rabbit from circa 1978 got 56 mpg.

So we agree that Hydrogen was the practical solution, but it was killed by Obama, not big oil, unless Obama is in bed with them to that level. He does take a lot of campaign money from them.

Brian


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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney

To Ian: I have been a huge advocate of hydrogen fuel.

The Chevy VOLT! The biggest car disaster since the Edsel...
when GM became Government Motors ... Now all that (fuel cell) technology has been shelved.

Electric cars STILL use mostly coal powered electricity and are still woefully inadequate for most of the American culture.

So we agree that Hydrogen was the practical solution, but it was killed by Obama, not big oil,


FWIW, I filled up with $4.29/gal gas this morning here in California, (I think we have ~ the highest $$ gas in the country).

BRIAN - I actually think were not on different pages. I agree with you about Obama's stupidity re. the fuel cell. I agree that most electricity currently comes from fossil fuels, so cars like the Volt are still burning fossil fuels.

I think my thinking really isn't about fuel cells. It's about amazing technologies and national will.

I think that if we decided we were going to be 99% free of fossil fuels in 20 years, it wouldn't be that difficult. Covering every parking lot and roof w/ solar... Having many ranches and farms do double duty as wind farms... Harnessing cheap hydrogen from water in various ways... and don't forget geothermal, oceanic (harnessing waves and tides)...

They all have their problems. But lots of these technologies are now only problems of scale. They're existing technologies that aren't even engineering challenges anymore.

I probably didn't express it well, but my main thought is that we COULD be FREE from fossil fuels. (IE free from dependence on Saudi Arabia et. al.!) And we could do it in a relatively short time by historical standards. With mostly existing technology. And we're pretty smart people... In 20 years I know there's going to be other amazing technologies.

Peace,

Ian


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Now it's $3.59 a gallon

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Personally I'd be willing to pay more in the short term if it meant becoming energy independent. And this means alternative energy. More drilling will NEVER get us to independence. A combination of solar, wind, hydrogen etc. WILL. And it's achievable!

Big oil does not want us to be energy independent. THEY are dependent on foreign sources for their product and profit and they want to keep us that way. How could they be otherwise? It's a global economy and they're global companies. But we are a sovereign nation and the more we keep it that way, the better. Alternative energy = independence. That's my math. IMO of course!

Sorry about the rant...

Peace,

Ian


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I think most alternative energy sources available today are pipe dreams. It sounds good but in reality is simply not viable. The tree huggers of the world would wish it so but it simply ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
Solar is so inefficient it isn't cost effective. I looked into it for my home electrical needs. $30,000 minimum with a short life expectancy on the batteries. They would need replaced long before the payback time.

Same with wind. Very expensive, ugly, kills birds and just plain obnoxious. Oh, one or two isn't bad but imagine 4 or 5 windmills in every back yard of your neighborhood. You would need 4 or 5 because one would be so big you wouldn't want it. And you are screwed on a calm day if you don't have batteries.

Home generated Hydroelectric? If you live on a stream can be done but a 100 watt hydro generator will run you about $2000.00. That's one light bulb.

I have checked into all of these and none were viable.

Hydrogen? Well the gas is everywhere but getting it out of the water is expensive.
BMW has a hydrogen powered internal combustion engine car. It is nothing but an expensive toy.

All electric Battery is a joke. The best one available will go about 100 miles between charges but the cost of the charging equipment and the cost of a full charge can get expensive. But is is still cheaper than gasoline. Some claim a 100 GPM equivalence but I doubt it is that high. And you still can't go more than 100 miles, stop for a 4 hour charge which will probably cost you somewhere around $6.00 to $8.00. And I'd bet even more.

Hydrogen cell electric is the better alternative and there are actually quite a few cars running on them now. New models are coming out every day. But the GPM equivalency is still not that great and the cars ain't cheap.

And none of this is controlled by Big oil. Big oil does not own the Auto industry.
Besides, there will always be a need for oil. We use it for all kinds of things, even our clothes.
Big oil will simply move into other industries if, IF, we every run out of a need for oil.
I don't see than happening for a very, very long time.

How to stop this price gouging from the middle east? Pump as much of our own oil out of the ground as we can. Quit buying from the middle east and other third world countries. Believe me they will change their attitude about it real quick when their revenue drys up.



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I am driving but a fraction of what I did two years ago.

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$3.95.9 Portsmouth, Ohio 3-9-12


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IN the town where I work, it was 3.59 after being 3.68 yesterday afternoon. In the town where I live it used to be about 10 cents more than where I work, but lately it's been about 5 cents lower but today it was at 3.64. One of the big stories here today is a new place opened across the street from an old place. They were both selling gas for 3.25 a gallon yesterday. Cars backed up blocking traffic and the police they would start citing the cars for blocking traffic. So now some people are saying the police basically told the gas station they had to charge a higher price to keep people from blocking traffic.

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Screwed up last week and forgot to fill up before I started driving north on HWY 1 in Calif central coast. Gas light comes on and I do not have enough gas to get to the next big town (Monterey). Pull into the first station I see in Ragged Point CA. Didn't notice price on pump. Go into station to pay cash, prices were $5.69/5.79/5.89. Couldn't believe it. I say "Is that a joke?", guy just smiled. Gave them $10 for less than 2 gallons and limped to Monterey to fill up. To me this is a perfect example of what's really going on. This station had me over a barrel (pun intended). So I come home and start looking things up on the net.

US exported more crude and gasoline than it imported in 2011, first time since 1949, (Bloomberg.com) and that's trending up this year. Their profits are at an all time high. Why sell it in the US when you can get a better price somewhere else?

I look up who do we get the most crude and processed oil from. 3 of the top 4 countries are in the western hemisphere. Only 25% of the oil from the top 15 comes from the Middle east. Middle east problems shouldn't have that much effect on us. Then I check oil futures prices. Boing!!

No pipeline is going to change that. Big Oil will get as much as they can after the market price is set. I don't think it's a conspiracy, but the game is fixed that's for sure. And Pres Obama is not the cause soundcabinet is paying $8.55 USD oer gallon in Denmark.

Drives me crazy. Can't think about it anymore.
I'm gonna walk around the corner and get drunk.

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Post deleted by Ian Ferrin


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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
I think most alternative energy sources available today are pipe dreams...(re. wind)-Very expensive, ugly, kills birds and just plain obnoxious.

Like Deepwater Horizon wasn't a problem?

Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
Hydrogen? Well the gas is everywhere but getting it out of the water is expensive.

That's EXACTLY what started my involvement in this thread. Are you aware of what MIT has done?

Sure, it costs more than oil at present. But oil is NOT the future!. We import about nine million barrels a day of crude. That's a lot of millions and it makes us dependent on folks we probably wouldn't do business with otherwise. Even if we pump Alaska and the gulf dry, we'll still have to make international compromises to stay in these guy's good graces.

I say, let America be INDEPENDENT!

Peace,

Ian


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Originally Posted by Bazzie

US exported more crude and gasoline than it imported in 2011,

That's not true. We were a net FUEL exporter, but we still imported ~9 million barrels of crude per DAY!. Check the details. That makes us energy dependent IMO.

Peace,

Ian


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Imagine if the Horizon disaster had happened under Bush... it would STILL be the biggest story ever, especially during campaign season. But we're not hearing about it at all. Since the environmentalists aren't screaming still about that and barely mention the global warming..er.. I mean Ice Age... er.. I mean Global Warming... er.. I mean ..ah heck "Climate Change" but I wonder how many minutes will pass if the Republicans win before it's front page again?

Alternative Energy is, as of right now, a SCAM. Without subsidies, none of it would be used beyond a few hybrid cars and solar panels which rarely take a fraction of the load off the electric grid. It's all just a big scam to pay off campaign donors with huge loans where the government is the last to get paid when it all crashes and is sold off. No subsidies. When you see them, you know the scam is on.

Natural Gas can meet our needs for over 100 years. Then we have about 250 years of oil via all sorts of new technologies. By then, they need to have Solar figured out or something else.

Brian


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went up to 1.43 cents per lit. here in Quebec. It will drop down a cent here or there and then always shoot up 7 to 10 cents over night.

B.S. Is what it is

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Thanks Ian. I made a mistake on the crude part of that point. Still seems odd to me that we're a gasoline exporter at all. But I guess if we kept all of our finished product prices would really have to drop to move all the goods. Can't have that can we smile

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Hydrogen is not a primary energy source - there is simply not enough of it around.

To use hydrogen as a fuel, you have to make it. You can get hydrogen from coal or natural gas - but they are fossil fuels. And carbon dioxide is a by-product of the process.

You can get hydrogen from biomass conversion too. Carbon dioxide is a by-product but at least you are only releasing CO2 to the atmosphere that was taken from the atmosphere a few months before - as opposed to a few hundred million years before.

You can get hydrogen from water but it requires a LOT of energy input. Remember, hydrogen releases its considerable energy by reacting with oxygen to form water. To get hydrogen from water, you have to put that much energy back in. Where does the energy come from? Right now, mostly from fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is a red herring. Once fossil fuels run out, hydrogen does too - unless you have a way to make it without using fossil fuels. Solar could be used - as could nuclear. Or wind, or tides or waves, or hydroelectric.

The only reason for using hydrogen now is that all the CO2 that comes with it during the conversion processes could be sequestered in a central location.

Scott

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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney

Natural Gas can meet our needs for over 100 years. Then we have about 250 years of oil via all sorts of new technologies.


Wow Brian... I've never heard anything so optimistic. There's serious thinking that an oil 'crunch' is essentially imminent. This NY Times article isn't new but things haven't changed that much. And India and China are becoming huge consumers, rapidly boosting global oil demand.

Re. natural gas, the trend is towards hybrid-electric and electric vehicles, NOT natural gas vehicles. I believe renewable energy powering electric vehicles IS the future. I know you believe otherwise, but honestly, that seems like a pretty big claim about 350 years of fossil fuels.

THESE are very cool!

Peace,

Ian


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Originally Posted by Scott Campbell

Hydrogen is a red herring. Once fossil fuels run out, hydrogen does too -

No it's not, and no it doesn't!. The artificial leaf isn't that efficient yet, but it's a baby technology. Cheap electrolysis (hydrogen from H2O) is being commercially developed by THESE GUYS.

Peace,

Ian




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Originally Posted by Ian Ferrin
Originally Posted by Scott Campbell

Hydrogen is a red herring. Once fossil fuels run out, hydrogen does too -

No it's not, and no it doesn't!. The artificial leaf isn't that efficient yet, but it's a baby technology. Cheap electrolysis (hydrogen from H2O) is being commercially developed by THESE GUYS.

Peace,

Ian




None of these articles mention the Solar Power that drives the operation. Unless someone has developed some new Solar Generating technology the average person will never be able to use this. Solar is still inefficient and expensive.
Solyndra found out the hard way.
What about the cost of storage of the Hydrogen and oxygen. I think storing Hydrogen is still quite costly.

I looked into Solar for my home and it was very expensive. The only way it was feasible was to be on the grid. I would sell the excess to the power company and use Grid power at night or cloudy days. Even with that the solar cells would wear out and need replaced long before I broke even.

Hopefully they will overcome these obstacles. I look forward to that day


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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
the average person will never be able to use (solar power). Solar is still inefficient and expensive.
Solyndra found out the hard way.

Solar Energy is Now the Fastest Growing Industry in America.

Nuff said.

Peace,

Ian


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Originally Posted by Ian Ferrin
Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
the average person will never be able to use (solar power). Solar is still inefficient and expensive.
Solyndra found out the hard way.

Solar Energy is Now the Fastest Growing Industry in America.

Nuff said.

Peace,

Ian


So, what happened to Solyndra?

That's wonderful Ian. Have you converted your house to Solar yet? Let me know when you do I'd like to know how much it cost you and when your break even point will be because unless you have found some new Solar panels I don't know about I doubt you will be doing it very soon. But if you have please let me know. I'd be interested.

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 03/12/12 02:47 PM.

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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson

So, what happened to Solyndra?

Same thing that happened to GM and Chrysler... it went bankrupt! Bad managers probably made stupid decisions. Doesn't change the fact that solar is growing rapidly and the price is dropping.

Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
Have you converted your house to Solar yet?

My landlord won't let me!

Peace,

Ian


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Originally Posted by Ian Ferrin
Originally Posted by Scott Campbell

Hydrogen is a red herring. Once fossil fuels run out, hydrogen does too -

No it's not, and no it doesn't!. The artificial leaf isn't that efficient yet, but it's a baby technology. Cheap electrolysis (hydrogen from H2O) is being commercially developed by THESE GUYS.

Peace,

Ian




You chopped off my sentence, Ian. It was (with bold added for emphasis):

Hydrogen is a red herring. Once fossil fuels run out, hydrogen does too - unless you have a way to make it without using fossil fuels. Solar could be used - as could nuclear. Or wind, or tides or waves, or hydroelectric.

These guys are using solar - more power to them. If you look out over 500 years, solar is the ultimate way to go (unless fusion is solved by then).

My main point was that hydrogen is not a primary energy source. Primary sources include fossil fuels, solar, nuclear, geothermal, hydroelectric, waves, winds, tides and biomass. Practically speaking, hydrogen will always be secondary in that it will always have to be produced using a primary source.

Scott

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Originally Posted by Ian Ferrin
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney

Natural Gas can meet our needs for over 100 years. Then we have about 250 years of oil via all sorts of new technologies.


Wow Brian... I've never heard anything so optimistic. There's serious thinking that an oil 'crunch' is essentially imminent. This NY Times article isn't new but things haven't changed that much. And India and China are becoming huge consumers, rapidly boosting global oil demand.


At current production rates and based on estimated reserves, the world has about 40 years of oil, less than 100 of natural gas and over 200 years of coal. I'm pretty sure this does NOT count tar sands and oil shale, which we have quite a bit of on this continent.

However, as the developing world develops (China and India in particular as you point out) the demand is going to increase. When oil runs out, coal can be used to produce motor fuels (that technology is known) but that will stress the coal even more.

In my opinion, we have enough fossil fuels and known technology to go 100 years at least, and probably more. There is still time to develop renewable sources - though the world gets dirtier (and hotter) by the day in the meantime.

Basic R&D in renewables thrives but it won't reach the production stage until it becomes economically attractive.

Scott


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Scott - I think we're in agreement about the artificial leaf. It IS a solar technology. But the hydrogen is a GREAT way to store the energy. Possibly much better than batteries. They're also exploring other interesting ways to exploit this really amazing technology.

Your numbers about remaining fossil fuels seem right. I think a crisis or 'crunch' point, especially re. waning oil reserves may arrive much sooner than 40 years. If and when that happens, solar and other renewable tech will IMMEDIATELY become cost efficient. The more infrastructure we have in place when that happens, the better.

Peace,

Ian


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