JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Is this the best direction?

Hello all,

Like many of you, I have a full time job. I also sing in two wedding bands. The income allows me invest in myself, and now I need to figure out the best way to do that. I am not currently touring, right now, I have a CD out, a music video on YouTube, no promotions company, no publicist, and no label backing me. I'd like to continue building my online presence and mailing list, and at some point next summer, begin doing more shows around the New England area.

Here's where I need help with direction...when I put out the first music video (you can view it at jaredjonesonline.com), I got in touch with a video promotions company, and at the time did not have any budget to devote to it. Like any good business or brand, I want to see a nice return on investment. Currently I do not have any live performance equipment, but have the ability to make professional grade music videos. So what should the focus be? Should I dive into making and marketing more videos until there is so much demand/interest that indie labels or investors get interested. Or do I wait on that, build a solid online music video catalog, let word-of-mouth do the promotion, and get that live performance equipment and start putting on more shows? I'm leaning towards promoting the videos because like I said before, with the two jobs, I don't have enough time to devote to playing live on a regular basis. Maybe 8-12 times per year.

Any thoughts, insights, and advice would be appreciated.

- Jared Jones

In my limited experience, I would suggest making the pro videos as you are able and steer clear of any labels or investors. Build yourself up from the ground doing what you do well and develop a fan base however you can. Avoid labels and investors like the plague until you are ready for the big time. Their mission is to separate you from your money.

One day if you make it big on a local level and can no longer manage your career alone, start entertaining the idea of a label or pro management....but play with a strong hand so you can negotiate a favorable arrangement.

I am a television engineer and what I have witnessed in the past 5 years is a steady increase in quality and steady decrease in cost for video production equipment. If you are good at it, you can make money but probability not just making your own videos. If you don't already edit in Final Cut Pro, I would seriously consider doing so. It does require the Apple OS however. With a HD camcorder, a few lights and blue screen, there is nothing stopping a talented producer from turning out videos as sophisticated as any thing produced by the million dollar budgets.

You don't have to read much on this forum to understand what a very very long shot it is to do your own music online and get anywhere near dollar signs. But if you can do really great videos, you can have a career doing that.

I watched your video. Can you tell us how it went down? Who shot it? how did you edit? Did you use a script? Did you write the song as a concept with the video or did you do the video to emphasize the song? There is definitely skill and talent displayed here.

My son does Rap and Hip Hop and he just decided he wants to make a career of video editing. He just turned 18 and now he wants to get serious. His gifts are writing, scripting and acting but he doesn't zero in on singing skills so I don't think he wants to be a preforming artist. He finds satisfaction in producing and editing.

Hi Jared:

I enjoyed being able to hear one of your vocals and view your site. Nice work on both counts. Colin and Joe have provided some pretty good advice. It's all about building blocks and a significant investment of your time and talent. With your skills, the sky is the limit... but it won't happen overnight. Build those relationships, gather some real fans... and go for it!

Best of luck to you.

Thanks Colin. I like what you said about labels and investors separating me from the money, I never looked at it that way but it's so true. I am in a great position to fund my own projects, and keep 100%, and I have a strong work ethic. I guess the blinders are still over my eyes, because when I see people getting signed, and having success, I automatically get frustrated thinking, when am I gonna get my due. But I understand it's better work hard and not have to give anything up.

- Jared

Thanks Joe,

I appreciate you checking out my video. That video was shot by Dan Kennedy of Intransit Media Group, Boston, Ma. He did all of the editing (not sure on what program), and he also did the video treatment. We didn't have a definite script aside from the video treatment, and he directed each scene. I had the song written first, and then decided I wanted to shoot a video for it.

The shoot went well. I really enjoyed shooting the car scene (though it was in the beginning of December and was freezing cold, we shot it in Boston). I also enjoyed the dancing scenes. The biggest setback was we had two other clubs cancel on us before the shoot, for some reason or another, and when we finally narrowed down the club used in the video (which we also didn't get direct approval for, only found that out afterwords), all of the people who had committed to being in the club scene couldn't make it! It was so frustrating, but it being a dream sequence helped. From now on, I'm personally securing locations, and will be getting written approval from the owners.

I think the editor on my new video production team uses Final Cut Pro. And again, I'm just trying to build a brand with more videos, and build a fan base that way.

Jared

Hey Dave,

Thank you for those kind words, I appreciate it. Actually, two days ago I was very discouraged because it seemed like music wasn't going anywhere. But that discouragement turned into the ability to create a new vision, and I was sitting at my notebook for 6 hours writing out new ideas, and plans for the next 5-7 years. I think I got overwhelmed thinking too much short term. And I'll be sure to make smart choices with investing in my career. This morning I was putting together a list of live performance equipment I want to purchase within the next six months, and begin renting out hotel halls to put on local shows. So I do think doing more videos will help me gain more visibility with the audio/visual.

- Jared

Jared,

When you produce your shows, consider using video clips during the show- making it a multimedia event. Just like video editing equipment has dropped in price and increased in quality so has video projectors- with higher light output, smaller size and less cost. And better yet, if you can get someone to mix the show sound, have another person mixing video live (stage and audience) with clips complementing each song. If your show has that edge locally, guess what experience the audience will find more interesting? Yours.

Hey Jared,

Yep, you got the whole package, so what's next ?

In seeing your work, it's all well produced, and certainly top notch. Having the video skills is a great bonus, and can only enhance the overall approach. ( I agree with Samuels assesment, my wife has been in TV broadcast for the past 15 yrs )

So, why not use that video footage live, to promote yourself and enhance the performance ?

The internet is one thing ( and you've got that covered ) so I guess you're now looking at live shows. I don't know wether you're considering a live band, or yourself with backing tape, but either way, folks want to be entertained.

My take ? Perhaps format your show first, a standard 40 mins would work well. I'd hire the gear first, before investing in a format which will need change. Either a ful band or at least 2-4 singer dancers would work well.

Work on the act, locally, then take it from there.......

I've always considered a local fan base much more important than anything else. Just keep increasing the radius.

Anyways, keep or sweep. I think with your work ethic, everything will work out OK.

cheers, niteshift

Jared,

I have a lot of suggestions and thoughts, but have been up nearly 24 hours and I am exhausted. I'll post some more thoughts later, but for now let me ask a few questions:

1. If you could only do 1 thing, what would it be? Artist? Writer? Video Producer? Concert Promoter? Studio Producer? Don't say "all of the above" because each of those are serious pursuits and only people already in power can usually do them all with success. I found strengths and weaknesses in each aspect in the video I watched. (It's solid, but has some fatal flaws as well).

2. Regardless of how you answered the above, the video, though well done, was better suited as a catalog piece for an established artist rather than something which will be memorable to the viewer and establish you from the pack of fellow contenders. You need careful planning to launch a career using videos. I am not sure if you've done that or not.

3. The songwriting didn't stick out enough to break through nor was it the type of song that will break an artist. You need to get the song right first before anything else matters. I forgot the song as soon as it ended and now I can't tell you a single thing about it. That's not to say you don't have talent, it's simply to say it's not the right song at the right point in your career.

4. The singing performance, though slick and professional in quality, also didn't stick out to be memorable as a career launching performance. Sounding "as good" as what is on the radio is wonderful, except that ground already belongs to those artists. That performance isn't going to replace anyone at the top. You have enough talent to pull off something that will stick out, but this wasn't it.

5. Your best idea is to set up shows (and the suggestions that you include multimedia to make them really stick out) where you are presenter of outstanding talent (much like a producer with a strong stable) and which includes you as the marquis name. Think about Tyler Perry's films and how he uses his name in front of most of them. You can cleverly ride the collective coat tails as presenter and performer at these shows. You also gain fans that each of those artists bring to the show. (And of course that should be part of your decision process on who you include).

I could give you clear advice on how to approach each of these areas carefully, logically and successfully. But right now I need some sleep.

Brian

Okay, no responses... I'd think the advice and questions inherent in each point would spur discussion, even if it was disagreement (which is fine with me). So it's a bit puzzling.

When Jared comes back to read this, please don't take any of this negatively because none of it is intended to be. You seem like a serious thoughtful artists/producer/video guy so I think some of the points above may be addressed by you already, or perhaps a lightbulb will go off. I love it when folks come here and ask for help who have already done so much in the right general direction. Now some focus and planning is in order.

Or you can PM me if you'd rather discuss off line for some reason.

Brian

By the way, Nite and Joe are both excellent resources for media stuff and Colin and Dave are awesome general advice guys. I agree with Nite when he said not to buy gear (very common BIG mistake!... one I have made myself to the tune of 27 Keyboards in my basement not gathering much dust along with a giant 17 piece drum kit, latin percussion and a 32 track digital recording station with automated faders which has yet to be plugged on (and is app 5 or 6 years old now). Not to mention a dozen guitars, none of which I play, and an acoustic electric base which I love and wrote some songs on but suck at actually playing).

Brian

Jared,
Just in case you might be inclined to take offense at Brian's appraisal of your work, keep in mind that Brian evaluates thousands of songs each year and know what tiny fraction are ever successful in any sense. The fact that your work is already at a high level, and that you are basically producing yourself, is remarkable in itself. You also have a plan and that puts you in a rare league, if you don't mind being in the company of Madonna and Lady Ga Ga for instance. Neither of those ladies waited to be discovered- they managed their own careers. That seems to be what you are doing.

Yeah, I could point out both strengths and weaknesses in what you do but I definitely see an artist at work. The thing that will slay the dragon is going to be the song writing. "Let the dogs out"; seduce the "single lady" in "Marvin's room". Write whatever it takes to get noticed. Nail the hook; let the riff tickle the intellect, make 'um weep, make 'um mad, make 'um care! Next time Brian listens to your music video, make him remember what he just heard! That is the best advice I can give you, but don't think for a minute that we don't know you have talent and potential. We see it.

A couple of further comments building on what Brian said.....

Live performance equipment can be rented. Perhaps you need a large PA and a way to play backing tracks? Rent it for your show along with a sound man.

The song in your video is very well done but as Brian said is not memorable or hooky. I love it when someone tells me that they woke up with my song going around in their head. That's what you need. Your song may do that for some (not my genre), but i think not for most people.

I think you need to inject some individuality and originality into your songs and videos...you just seem to be a clone copying popular sounds and styles that have been done so many times before. It is very difficult to break into any market unless you have a USP. OK what you have is pretty good quality and top notch production BUT the song, your image and performance is not memorable or original enough to take you UP to the next level. It has no unique selling point. The powers that be will not invest in a newbie when he only produces what their exisiting acts already do. I am no expert in your style of music but one thing I know it is very competetive. The only way to be competetive is to be different and better than the opposition.

Thank you all for the comments. I am taking note of everything, and injecting it into my planning. I do apologize for not responding until now. I honestly haven't been on until today (Thanksgiving, by the way, Happy Thanksgiving to you all). So first, I need to do a much better job at getting back with you guys consistently. Thank you so much for the kind words, and constructive critics. I completely agree. When looking at my video, and style objectively, I see exactly what you all are saying. And I will make sure before I invest money in any project of mine, that I will ask myself the same questions presented here. With this first video, I actually was looking for the exact validation that you all gave me, that it was professional. I know I also did it to "break" from the local mantra that any artist from my area does low budget, backyard videos. I wanted to set the record straight with them that I could achieve a high quality video, on my own dime as well. So again, thank you for acknowledging that.

The ideas I have now are definitely in the Tyler Perry vein, but trying to marry music and short film, with short films I produce being based off of a song of mine, and really getting deep into the story. I know that's what I'm most passionate about is creating the story...so Brian, that would be the answer to your first question, songwriter would be my choice.

I'll now send each of you who I haven't responded to a personal message to let you know I've received the info, and trust me, I do appreciate it. This saves me time and money.