JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Expensive demos

Sorry for not growing up Niteshift. Five of these threads at one time on four different sites are about all I can deal with at the same time. I have my own demos (yes I do full up demos if I am pitching anything) and other people's careers I advise. I actually have to do this for real.

In the overall "vacum" of " I don't want to pay for demos" if you look at it on a song by song basis, you can decide what works for you. I have tried to give the reasons why and show the bigger picture. I would suggest that if you don't want to pay for demos, don't.

Moker, the actual number that an artist, a writer, a publisher, a record label, has that gets any significant attention (money spent on recording demos, spending development money on artists, writers, etc.) is 4%. That is the amount of a catalogue that will have attention paid to it.

How good is your four percent?

MAB

Mike, thanks for reply, to see TAXI evaluation -
just copy and paste the link into InternetExplorer window and you're there (I checked it out - it works).
As for that demo - it's my first production I made 2 years ago
when just started to work with DAW, VSTi, samples etc.
Now I do it much better, you can compare with this track
I produced 1 year ago:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10491067

and I go on to improve my sound to get everything at least of
a broadcast quality (as TAXI requires)

What, in your opinion, constitutes doing it for real? Serious question.

The reason I ask is, I noticed you mentioned it a couple times.

When I read these threads, I always detect that the discussion is mostly centered on trying to hit a home run and knock one out of the park with a seasoned artist having a major hit record. For most of us, that is not the real world. There is a circle of Marc Barnettes who have a shot at that, but most of us do not, regardless of how good the song is.

So if a song ends up as an album cut by a less popular artist who sells 10,000 CDs (a lot by most standards), the songwriter's share is 10,000 x $.091 = $910. Half of that goes to the publisher and the remaining $455 is split between the songwriters.

So if it makes sense to you to spend $600 for a demo to have a 4% chance of earning $455, I say go for it. I will make my own demos though, thank you.

"Doing it for real" is having continuous and ongoing relationships with labels, publishers, artists, other writers, in a face to face, friend to friend relationship, not third person or indirect connections. It is an overall career, and not based around one song or one demo. It is producing artists, Co-writing and interaction with notable people in that industry.

Being involved in the legitimate recording industry in one of the three main music centers, Los Angeles, New York, Nashville.
If you are in other areas, such as Seattle for the grunge movement, Atlanta, Athens Ga. Minneapolis, or other "Satalite" locations, with burgeoning music scenes and being part of that scene. Overseas it could be Toronto, London, Paris, etc. with people who are in that industry that have a tangible impact on the music industry as a whole.

It is building a lifetime career, and not random shots in the dark.

That would be my definition of "doing it for real." I am sure others can supply different definitions.

MAB

MAB,
My 4% is pretty good, been at this long enough to know what is and what isn't... but I'm a realist and I know I don't have deep enough relationships in the 3 major music centers, and presently I can't make a commitment to do frequent enough trips to further the connections I do have. I enjoy what I do, played for about 6,000 folks last week...back to clubs Fri. & Sat. this week...would be fun to write or just throw down a little some time with ya...look me up if you get close to Jax, and I'll do the same next time I go to Nashvegas...I will say again that I see alot of stuff demo'd that didn't deserve to have a dime spent on it much less a grand, I wasn't far off from your 4% when I said 5%. That is for seasoned writers...bad songs will stay bad and people should be honest with themselves and save their money if the song is crap, you can polish a turd but they don't come out looking very shiny Always appreciate your Pro opinion Marc...have some fun this weekend.

That is a GREAT reason. Only why do you have to impress the unknown artist and not anyone else. Take care of it all in one shot.

Again the tangibles, but lets leave out the getting a cut with a big artist. Because Kevin's right you can spend a million on a recording and still get no where.
But if I had a million I would buy myself in anyway.

The FIRST thing you make a killer recording for is PRIDE! It's for yourself. I'm not gonna labor six months over a song and yeah that's nothing to me. Then treat it like a cheap date lol
My song represents me EVERYTHING about it is the best I can make it within my means. That means "sacrifice"

When I think about Glynda who can't afford anything beyond the necessary posting up her song so proudly every six months it puts a huge smile on my face. She said the troops overseas all gathered around the vehicle drawn to her song and digging it.
Her song really hit the mark with them, and my opening guitar playing drew them right in... in 10 seconds.

2- Forget the Big Wigs just make your peers, collaborators and potential collaborators want to work with you. We show them how good we are and dedicated and serious we are. And believe me it's THOSE people that usually lead us to the bigger people and bigger opportunities. Thinks have to start somewhere.

I could go on but wont, number one & two are ALL the reasons I ever need to do what I have done and what I do.
I suffer,fail and fall hard but it's NEVER from what I didn't do, on my end.

I'm about to pay a horn player $300 to lay down ONE track on my song for my CD. A Cd in which I could sell 20 copies of if I'm lucky. It's taking me three years almost to complete. And it's instrumental to boot giving absolutely no chance whatsoever in the world to GO ANYWHERE never mind to a pops star or country star.

ALL it comes down basically to what's most important to you in your life, That's it PERIOD! It is that simple.

Mike, You're a throwback. Uncompromising. A rare bird who does it for the love of his art. You're a top flight musician who does it for the right reasons. One of you is worth more than any 10 Nashville, LA or NYC technicians who do it for the money and fame. You got your head and heart in the right place.

Thankyou very much Dan

While I'm aware that some people may be fueled by the fame or money, especially when there young and easily influenced by TV and media. I still believe you have to have that deep love and passion for it in the first place to even stop yourself from giving up.

So even somebody a star who may be acting like a jerk lol may have worked really hard and paid some dues, made some sacrifices. But with the way so much big contemporary music is developed so many can reach success without discipline and humility. In music you get that from on thing straight off the bat, something closely associated with music - "An instrument" Keeps you in check every single day. Then music itself.

You're right I am a throwback for sure. I'm also a gentle animal down here. Ready to give the shirt off my back and also rip out a heart and eat it. No excuses from my end, I know all about the competition. And if there anything like me, and they ARE lol there dangerous!!!

Thanks
Mike

That's crazy -- don't do it. Find a friend to do it for free or use another instrument. Sorry, spending that much money when $$$ are at premium doesn't make any sense. In the pursuit of perfection -- perfection can come in all shapes and sizes.

Kevin

P.S. I know you posted this once before, but where can we sign up to pre-buy the CD?

Now a days I think of songs/demos as scratch off lottery tickets and scratch off lottery tickets are pretty cheap. (Odds are better too.) Every now and then you just might get a winner.

I think cheap demos of great songs stand more of a chance with publishers than A&R but a great demo of a great song stands an even better chance with a publisher. But like I said, IMO, the chance of "winning" is like winning with a lottery ticket.

Today in my little area a guy was announced as a million dollar prize winner on a scratch off.

Alek, I think it works for you because it points to a file on your computer's "E" drive. It won't work for us because we can't connect to your "E" drive. I tried it in two browsers and it wouldn't work.

Kev Crazy?

How about this, I hold off on the CD for three more years till I can take up the horn, learn & practice for three years then play it myself on the CD. I'd do that!

But I don't have the strength. No I actually settled for too many things on this CD already. Most of the CD has only me on every song. That is never my intention, yes I'll do most or a lot of it but... I always want the best possible people I can get playing on my songs. It totally makes the song, every little nuance. Only lately due to my health keeping me out of circulation,I have been disconnected from my many musician friends. Yes I still know a few but their simply not up to the task or the job.

Also I can't afford to pay them even when I can find them. It's easy to find players to play for free but they are not nearly the level of the others. Pro's are busy all they do is play and they need to be paid. When I had a job I would take my entire pay check with me to a studio. Hire the musicians for between $100 to $250.00 a piece. Then pay the studio $75 an hour on top of that.

Most of the times I used my own studio, especially since I advanced it to a better level ten years ago. But even then I'd hire players.
After a while I got more proficient on the drums then anyone I could used before for free.

I play the bass and still sometimes want to hire someone else to play bass on my song. It's good for my songs I think like a producer. I know someone is going to bring something different to my song they I would.

Tomorrow if my back & neck hold up the violin player is coming in to do tracks for one song. She will be paid well and fed. And I'll make her laugh 20 times or more as well
I have played enough different instruments already on the CD and substituted enough instruments for ones that I originally wanted.

Actually that was another project, I haven't posted pre-sale for this CD, I'm pretty sure. This ones going to Disc Makers. It will be my first one packaged by me ever. That's something I never did. I always have to spend the money on something else. And I always put getting more gear before pressing a CD. Crazy!

I'm crazy Kev, when I was able too I'd walk into a music store and leave broke. Bro every penny, the whole check, no savings accounts here. I remember the day the Tascam 388 reel to reel table top studio desk came out. I bought it and the Korg M1 keyboard that day, I was about 25 years old I dropped $5,000.00 cash that day. And sold them both down the road for $250.00
And that was after the $1,000.00 cassette porta studio and before the $7,000.00 8 track reel to reel and forget about the mixing board

Now what was that about spending $300 on a recording?

Thanks I know and appreciate what your saying
Mike

Alek I'm on Fire Fox and couldn't get it.

Here's the thing about this subject as well. Lots of people, guys like Colin and Kevin, and others. They are building up there computer based home studio set ups. That is very cool and what anyone who's a player should do that least to some degree.
it makes total sense.

So I'm with Colin and these guys i would rather spend the money on gear of any kind more so than hiring for a demo or going to record.
That's exactly what I did all along just so extremely that eventually I got un-par or even beyond any studio locally that I could go to. While they cost more than I do and have much more expensive gear.

But lots of us are not submitting to a major publishers or labels. We CAN"T even if you own the best studio, They wont take your music. If they were giving the chance a fair chance I think many here would invest in the best three songs with no hesitation if the opportunity presented itself for real.
I have been blessed with the opportunity to submit to the biggest and best. Since I was kinda young 19 when that started I never thought to go any less ever since.

The idea to focus on Broadcast Quality as we call it came to me in the early 2000's when the window just kept closing on what a songwriter can do or submit started becoming further away for me. Most of the songs I write are more artist like in style.. All rock is for starters. So if I already had songs like a band or singer songwriter then why not just go for Films & TV. Also the radio and charts are DOMINATED by Hip Hop, Dance/Electronic Pop Rap etc... Dominated!! So what? Even though I got the ability to lean and twist and turn I'm tired now of trying that. My first record was a Dance Song total club music. I didn't have to pretend far at all to make that song as I LOVE R&B and most of my music is based in some kind of soul to some degree. But when I was younger it was easier and i actually enjoyed the process of working in a situation (Dance Music) where for the first time in my life it wasn't a band recording situation.

This is how I learned both worlds.

But anyway I figured films & TV since I wasn't ever going to be able to compete with J Low's rear end.
And with that you need the best recordings possible, as they go
"As Is" Nobody is redoing your song.

The reasons to do your best and put in all you can and all you have is endless. The reasons not too are called excuses. And those are fine too as long as you don't ever complain about where your at in this business. Good luck with that right? LOL I'm still whining.
I just had a friend put that record on a CD for me, the dance song. I wrote it in 88 did the demo on a cassette 4 track porta studio. The song and the singer made it onto vinyl then onto some radio stations in circulation with major recording artists of the time. Like Taylor Dane and that Pump Up The Jam. So I listened and while it was pro sounding done up great, I was like listen to this song? These lyrics I wrote? Lame! lol

I got WAY further in the game when I wasn't a third of what I am now musically and lyrically and in every regard. Kevin is right, The style, the singer, the whole thing was more important than the song. And the contact as well of course

That's just it though, they will give you a chance. Everybody will...at least once. You just have have the right stuff. By the right stuff, I mean, knowing what to write, and how to write it. Learning to write what people want to hear is hard and the trick is to attempt to write what alot of people like. The reason people have multiple hits is not accident, or a stroke of wild luck over and over. They are doing that purposely, and they thought about it purposely when they wrote that hit, most of the time. Some things to think about are...could I hear everbody singing along to this in a packed staduim?...Could it apply to kids, moms, dads, grandparents, friends, or maybe even people that don't like the specific genre it may be...Can a radio station play it, with out a single person calling up and saying they didn't like it, or even worse, they hate it. Does if offend anybody?...can a lyric be taken in a way you didn't want it to be taken as? There's so many things to think about while writing a song, that I'm sure many people have never even thought about at all. But, you can't let your fears get in the way of the creativity. So it's a fine line. The whole point is to make music for many to enjoy. When a lot of people like it, then alot of people buy it. People buying it is just a positive side effect. People in the music industry will listen to music. It's their job. But if it's not what they are looking for, then you can't expect them to listen for long. The exact same goes for consumers.

I'm not so sure it's not still about the song Mike. Production is great, and it's real easy to pick apart a songs lyrics to point out the flaws, but think about this...People are singing along the words, not playing along with instruments. Well...most of the time, unless it's a great lick, in which case I guess you sing along with that too. But the point it, as long as there are lyrics and melody, then that almost takes precedence. The song, whether you or I happen to like it or not, makes the production work. Having a good singer is key obviously, but if they were singing words that sucked, or really sucked, people would notice that the words suck

If the song was so important we wouldn't have all these slickly produced, same sounding songs sung by handsome guys in cowboy hats and racing ballcaps or pretty girls in the commercial country music industry. Or young kids warbling the same sounding pop schlock set to a dance beat in the pop field. We're in the era of the McSong. They all look, sound and taste alike in each of the different genres. They even teach you to write that way, to sound like what's in the market place. The commercial music industry is about money, not music. If you want to get into the franchise music business, you better bring big money to the table or have connections - what nowadays are called relationships. Let's not overly romanticize it or make more of it than it is. Let's at least call it what it is.

Now if you want to discuss good music, that's a different matter.

Dan, As far as the handsome guys in cowboy hats go, that's smoke and mirros. Not familiar with the racing ballcaps, but ballcaps in general are pretty common, as are the cowboy hats, to add mystique (wonder what he looks like without a hat on) and to possibly hide the possible fact that the singer could be losing hair. That hat and those clothes are what make them look like a singer, plus good photography. Not that really any of them are ugly, they probably look normal on an average day, until you put them on a stage and people see them alot, everywhere, then all the sudden they are attractive. Tv makes people think people attractive somehow. Same with girls. Makeup certainly doesn't hurt anything. They're not as attractive in real life. Honestly though, would you pick a super ugly person to be the face of your car lot on a tv commercial? Do they put ugly dogs on the side of dog food containers? If the object was to sell music, why would it be any different? Business is still business. So that can be blamed on business, in general...not the music business

Believe me, I completely understand all of the negativity towards the music business, and the music itself. The hope, is to make money, as with any career, isn't it? But imagine being able to do write your songs, people listening to them and them playing on the radio, and then at some point, maybe getting paid for it. It all depends on who you ask as far as it's about money, not music. If you asked a business person, then yeah, it probably is. If you asked a recording artist or a songwriter, it's about art. The point I'm trying to make it, everything isn't always what it seems. Music may never be as fresh as it once was when everything with still new to everybody back in the 50's-70's. It's hard to not be influenced by at least something. But if you asked a music fan...not a musician, how they felt about the last song they heard on the radio, they would probably tell you they loved it. Fans still love new music, and they don't criticize it near as much as musicians. And most truthfully, when they do criticize it...it isn't when it's a McSong, they criticize it when it's different. When it sounds like what they are used to, then there's nothing to complain about. So maybe it's the fans wanting everything to sound a certain way, that makes it sound like that. If you make it to different, they won't listen or care. BTW, I love the phrase McSong

That is always one of the comments about music that I find most amusing, the "everything sounds the same, and it's not like it was in my day." Especially when you read back over magazine and newspaper articles of any period, movies or television shows of that day.

It is easy to pull out a few classic songs of our youth that still may be played on jukeboxes, CD's, I pods or classic radio, and think of how different that time was. We forget all the sound alikes and rip offs of that day. We forget about the 50's and the greaser look, the 60's English invasion, the 70's Disco and Urban cowboy Days, the 80's punk, 90's grunge and the modern era. Where people not only sounded alike, but wore the same fashions be they leather jackets, the same suits, torn t shirts, the same hair, same lingo.

The entertainment business is always a follow the leader business and there are thousands of contestants for each place. But trends do change all the time.

Probably in ten-15 years, people will be complaining that everyone "sounds the same" and it is not all different or as good as they did "back in the days of the late 2011's.

MAB

Yep I always chuckle when I hear writers say that they could write those top 10 hits...and slag off the music of the day...I did a project where I wrote interpretations of recent top 10 pop hits, I had to write 6 tracks copying the rhythms and style, was the best free tuition and gave me a real appreciation of what makes a 'hit', in saying that I think I've only written one true hit, recording it has been the nightmare, three versions down and trashed, different productions, different studios, can be an elusive business getting it right.

MAB, If the songs coming out of the corporate country music industry aren't all about the bottom line then they're wasting a lot of time and money test marketing singers and songs like McDonald test markets a new menu item before rolling it out across the country. And they're wasting time and money training future songwriters to write to the Nashville formula, a formula as precise as a Big Mac recipe.

I'd never say you or anyone else in the industry is wrong to defend the Music Row business model. Hell, it's your livelihood. But let's not pretend that the Nashville music industry is about 'art' or 'meaningful' songs, even in the context of popular song.

Everything sounds pretty much the same in corporate country music because it's meant to sound pretty much the same. Just like every Big Mac is meant to taste the same.

It's got nothing to do with anyone's subjective opinion about Beethoven, Listz, Ma Rainey, Bing Crosby, Lawrence Welk, the Beatles or music of any other era.

I haven't listened to modern country in a few months, so I thought I'd see if the songs all sounded the same. I went to CMT and listened, but didn't watch, the top five country videos.

1. Kenny Chesney, featuring you and Tequila. Written by Matraca Berg and Kay Carter. Acoustic guitar and hand drum intro. Duet. Soft reverbed electric guitar fills, acoustic guitar fills, round bass, drums with brushes, organ. Lead on acoustic guitar. Very soft overall, dreamy, acoustic, almost folky. Love song about "crazy love" comparing the woman's love to what Tequila does to him. He keeps coming back to her. My favorite line, "It's always your favorite sins that do you in."

2. Trace Adkins, Just Fishin written by Casey Beathard, Monty Criswell and Ed Hill. Electric guitars, slightly overdrive bass. big drums full snare, piano, panned electrics. Pedal steel, organ. Two high male harmonies. Rock guitar lead. Song about taking his daughter fishing, how it's a lot more than fishing, it's quality time with his child. My favorite line is the hook, "And She Thinks We're Just Fishing."

3. Taylor Swift, Mean written by Taylor Swift. Frailed banjo and mandolin. Female harmonies, brush drums. acoustic guitar, fiddle. electric bass. Drums move to full snare, possibly using rods. Mandolin lead. Handclaps for percussion. Bluegrassy folky. Song about standing up to those who are abusive and calling them out for it. My favorite line: "You, pointing out my flaws again...as if I don't already see them." Reminds me thematically of "Positively 4th Street."

4. Luke Byron, Country girl shake it for me. Kick drum pulses, electric guitars, organ. Picked banjo, fiddle. female vocals. Rock oriented, rock guitar leads. Dance song, simple "laundry list" lyrics about "country." Favorite line is the musical hook at the end.

5. Steve Martin, Jubilation Day. Full bluegrass. Upright bass, banjo, mandolin, fiddle, acoustic guitar Quartet harmonies with lead singer answers. No drums at all. Great upright slap bass solo. Song about the freedom of leaving a relationship. A "laundry list." Favorite lines: "Even your mom told me you were nuts," and "You wear a red cape and a pitchfork."

All very different. Very different melodies and singing approaches. Lead singers included a high baritone, a low baritone/bass, a high alto, a medium alto, and recitation (spoken word). Musically, I like the Steve Martin song (I'm a bluegrasser at heart), then the Chesney and the Swift songs about equally. All are produced well. Lyrically I like the Chesney, Swift and Adkins songs. I don't care for the "Country Girl" lyrics. Steve Martin is funny and clever, but it's more about the joke than the song.

Anyway, that's the way I see's 'em.

Mike

Hey Mike, you should do that for a living! Great analysis of the arrangements..

Seems we all want those opportunities too fast. One shot is possible, but if you are wasting peoples time, then you won't get another in a long time. The new stuff in cont. music is there, but it may be way more subtle than it used to be, so it's harder to grasp, and we ain't exactly getting any smarter, are we..

Mike,

Oh yeah. there is that. When I hear this nonsense about "They all sound the same" from a few people that hear very little, I pretty much give up. Can't convince people of anything.

Dan, you are full of it. Sorry but you are.

Basically figure out what you want to do and do it . Quit complaining about everything and learn what you are talking about. Would help the discussions.

MAB

MAB, No need to apologize for the name-calling and mis-characterization of my posts as complaining about everything. Especially when you don't mean it. I've got nothing against you, in fact, you've got a charming manner. If I recall, I promoted one of your songwriting shindigs with a video on this site. If you've got a chip on your shoulder for me because of my point of view, that's okay. It's a small enough price for me to pay to maintain my integrity and independence.

I've had four songs signed, (publisher, no cuts...yet) and two of them were studio demos'''one $700.00 range, one $250.00 range and one Heather did $50.00 and another I sang (yeah, they signed one with me singing, must not have been a very picky artist or maybe they needed something to make them laugh and it hit the spot.

Whatever the reason, I think the song, style and track have to match exactly to what the publisher/plugger THINKS is wanted at the time. Not specifically a $700.00 recording over a home recording. I think if its fitting whats being looked for a cheap demo will win over an expensive demo thats not quite what they want lyrically.

Of course, not having a cut, I really can't even be sure I know what the heck I'm talking about...lol!

Mike proves an excellent point. They all sound the same does seem to be an invalid arguement, yes. Here's why. If they sound alike, it's because they are in the same genre. They are supposed to have a similar sound to them. There is a insanely popular streaming radio player called Pandora. It's on the internet, iPhone, Android, you name it. You type in an artist you like, and guess what your playlist is made up of? Songs that sound alike. Songs are categorized by what they sound like, and what you will hear is a bunch of stuff that has similar attributes. And get this...Listeners Love It.

Dan, you're a good man. Both Marc and I get to hear a lot of Nash-bashing, and it gets old. Folks think there's some kind of "fix" in, well there are plenty of things to navigate, but it is like football. After you've won a game, the next game is easier to play. You know what to expect and how to prepare. But it is not easier to win. Same kind of thing in the music business. Folks complain about the fix and how an outsider can't win it, yet 100% of the people who are successful started out as outsiders...even the Jr's and those born in the biz have no easier time being successful, it's just easier to network.

As far as things all sounding the same, I started out in folk and bluegrass. To me, the Beatles sounded the same as the Beach Boys or Buddy Holly. As a "folkie" I purposely got rid of my tv, radio and record player so I wouldn't be "tainted" by the "evil" commercial garbage like that. LOL. And it all sounded the same to me. Then, as I began teaching music and was asked to teach some of these songs I had an epiphany. Some of that pop was pretty good. I liked some, and I didn't like some, but by analyzing it without being prejudiced by my young political/social agenda (I was an anarchist), I found that, like it or not, most of it was pretty good and now and then, some of it was very good.

To my ears, the Beatles have a handful of songs that are great. Almost all are good. Some are poor. Same with most other bands. Now, all of their music, to me is excellent, I'm talking about songs. Then some bands, the song matters less. The Dixie Dregs, Weather Report, Return to Forever and all the mostly instrumental jam bands come to mind. The songs don't matter, but the music is great. It's an experience that folks don't internalize like they do a song.

I've always thought of songs as being "multi-media." There's the music, which may or may not be great or even good, and there are the words, which also may or may not be great or even good. Some of my favorite songs have weak lyrics, but great music, and vice versa. Then, there's the beat. Don't think the beat is important? Explain the popularity of rap and hip hop. I once asked Sam Bush, the legendary mandolin player, for his favorite musical advice. He said, "Make them want to dance." Well, as my old friend Tom "The Hitman" Cerone (a great drummer who played on several hits that almost everyone here has heard) used to say: "Nobody ever danced to a lead guitar." Well, I'd say nobody ever danced to a lyric.

Now, a truly great song, like Gordon Lightfoot's "Canadian Railroad Trilogy," has great words, great music and a great performance. These come along every now and then. And that's for me. One day I'll make a list of recorded songs that I consider great. I'd guess there might be less than twenty. And none of mine are even close. But, there are a lot of songs that I think are good, and that I really like. My favorite all time song (recorded or not) is "Wooly Bully," but I wouldn't call it great. My favorite recorded song is Gordon Lightfoot's first recording of his composition "Song for a Winter's Night." I would call that great.

Anyway, all this leads to this strange phenomenon of which I am susceptible. Thinking people, places, creations, and locations with whom and which I have little or no experience are all alike. It is this which, I believe, has led specifically to Nash-bashing: the broad criticism and outright animosity toward my adopted home, based on assumptions of political, economic, cultural, and social systems which I, frankly, do not see. In my experience here, there is great a great diversity of musical styles which all gradually have been assimilated into mainstream country. We've evolved from guitars, fiddles, banjos and basses only, to adding pianos, mandolin, dobro, drums (now that was a breakthrough! a story worth a thread of its own), electric guitars (ditto), saxaphones (leave that country horn on the football field), steel guitar (what are they playing that Ha-wa-ian thing for?) up until today, when we have sequencers, baritone guitars, all kinds of vocal processing, loops and so on. Yet at every turn...it all sounded alike. LOL.

Anyway, the answer is: yes, it all sounds alike...to folks for which it all sounds alike.

They All Sound the Same
(c) 1985 Mike Dunbar and Lee Cupp
There's another love song playing on the radio,
It sounds no different than the last five in a row,
It's you and me and love and how we're never going to part,
The same old happy ending where we steal each other's hearts.

They All Sound the Same when you're lonely,
Those love songs I hear every day
They say, "I love you."
And pretend love is true,
They all sound the same.

There was once a love song that meant the world to me,
Every time they played it, my heart sang harmony,
But yesterday I heard it and it didn't mean a thing,
Just a bunch of old cliches about a wedding ring.

Chorus,
Chorus,
Instrumental,
Chorus,
Chorus,
Instrumental Bridge,
Pre Chorus,
Chorus,
Chorus,
Tag,
Instrumental Fade.

I don't know, those lyrics are all the same.

Mike.

Mike, As usual, you make great sense. Can't disagree with a word you wrote. I'd even call it the final word on the debate about "they all sound the same."

As for the real "They all sound the same," now that's what I call great writing. I'll tip my hat to you and Lee Cupp for that one. Great writing. I'd like to hear the song.

Thanks, Dan, I had it on a reel of tape (Grandpa, what's a reel of tape?) that got destroyed during the Nashville flood last year. Lee wrote the music and I wrote the lyrics. One day I might record it again. I'm thinking about recording some traditional country for a project. Heck, I sing a lot of old country twice a week with the Over the Hillbilly Band, so I might as well have some product to sell. Anyway, if and when I do get around to it, JPFers will soon be sick of hearing about it. Stay tuned.

Mike.

Mikey had it perfect up until "A handful of great songs"

Couple more examples of a few current Top 40 Nashville songs that most likely started out, and pretty much stayed rough demos (cause it sounded cool), with very little studio instrumentation.

Jake Owen - Brafoot Bluejean Night
Eric Church - Homeboy
Rodney Atkins - Take A Backroad

Recording to the demo is nothing new. Here's a great story about "Old Time Rock and Roll" Bob Seger's biggest hit, that was a demo for the songwriters Seger recorded to.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2609

Often, the reason stars and labels sign the song is because it sounds "right" or "authentic." The excitement of session players with a new song, or the chemistry of a team of players at a particular session is something that, many times, can't be duplicated.


.........and Mike C:

Get to know a few people in Nashville, and you might be able to sit in on one of those studio sessions -- where the musicians all play at the same time and they do it in one. It's something to see.

I think the musicians took more time taking smoke breaks between takes than they did actually playing.