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#896157 - 05/04/11 05:42 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: ben willis]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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It was called a "Mansion" because it was 8 times larger than the neighboring houses surrounding the area. It was also built very well, which was one of many things that made it a suspected location.

As for Obama, I think it is the one big thing he's ever done that was NOT for political expediency. Just the opposite. Will he get a bump in the polls? Sure. That's what media, pro and con, always do in these cases. But what he did was a level of bravery we haven't seen in either party since Bush had to make similar dangerous decisions which took great bravery. After all, had it all failed and worse, started an outright war between Pakistan and the US which was among the risks (and remember the failed rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages in the Carter years which ended his presidency?). Bush took abuse and still does for many tough decisions (like rendition which Obama still uses, or Afghanistan or Iraq or the surge, which worked but which Biden and Obama both said would fail) because once in the job, you see things very differently than polls or media or anyone opinionizing on the outside, which is the best any of us can do because we likely have less than 1% of the facts at any given time. Like Bush who had 80+% poll favorability after each war (and the almost universal support from both parties at the start of each war) Obama will also get a bump, but like Bush before him, it had nothing to do with why they did it. He took the biggest risk of his presidency on something that military experts say was between 50-80% sure. That's high stakes to go "all in" and my respect for Obama has significantly gone up, even though I agree with very little that he has done. If his detractors keep insisting that it WAS for politics, then it was the ballsiest hail mary in political history. But I think it was a real decision made by a leader who did the right thing when not doing it would have been much easier and safe. He got rid of the snake head. And sure, another head will grow on this snake, but it will be far less of a universal symbol.

As for the kids celebrating, I initially (and to some extent still do) feel a little queasy about it, but I also understand it. First, if you look at the crowds, these are college kids who have had this monster or bogey man around for half their entire lives. Just as I once feared missiles coming from Russia as a child, these kids had to have nightmares about these terrorists as well. The images of those towers coming down stole away much of that generation's innocence. If I had still been in college when the Berlin Wall came down (a similarly seminal moment in many of our lives) I'd have likely been cheering as well just like all those German kids were doing in the streets while most of the adults looked on a bit more somber but respectfully as to what had happened.

Note to Dave Rice: I guess the next time I disagree with what you say or do, I'll send you a nice letter and suggest you give up a large part of what you've worked for, created and earned in your life to Mike Dunbar or someone else I personally like for safe keeping. How's that? (Please note sarcasm).

I will say this about Dan, he brings a rational and supported argument to the table which I find quite refreshing in the typical back and forth we have around here and we rarely agree on much, though lately that seems to be changing a bit. I certainly haven't seen any bravery from Republican's on the current battles in Congress (to be clear, none from the Dems either). Some lower level or back benchers have stepped up, but not in the truly power positions except Paul Ryan who did stick his neck out to be chopped off. Obama just leap frogged the rest of his party in my view. I sure hope he brings a similar bravery to solving the problems we have in between campaign stops going forward. Frankly, if he was always this bold, he wouldn't need campaign stops.. his actions would speak the words for him instead of the teleprompter.

Obama made the tough decision, the military and intelligence and in part the previous administration started the ball rolling and military and intelligence did the heavy lifting at the end. I'd say that's about as bi partisan (and non partisan) a win as we've had in decades.

Brian


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#896176 - 05/04/11 11:06 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Dave Rice (D) Offline
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Dave Rice (D)  Offline
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Hi Brian:

Thanks for responding. Obviously, you misinterpreted my message. No disrespect was intended... nor is it ever in your direction.
I'll simply put this chapter away and someday, hopefully, have a private conversation with you regarding my vision for you and JPF. (Sorry about "hi-jacking" your thread.)

In that regard (Usama's Elimination) I'll share my thoughts. I am relieved that a major threat has been eliminated. I do not rejoice in his death... although he richly deserved what he received. Instead, I prayed after hearing the news. I prayed for all the innocents who were killed as a result of his hatred and planning. I prayed for him... lost soul that he was. (Isn't that what Christians are supposed to do?)

This war may never be over in our lifetime. My glimmer of hope is that the people in the middle east are just as sick of being oppressed as taxpayers and silent majority Americans are by our out of touch lawmakers and supreme court. Change is coming! Not the "change" Mr. Obama had in mind... but real change that will spread the power of democracy out among the voters of this country.

Regards,

Dave

#896188 - 05/04/11 12:44 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dave Rice (D)]  
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Roy Cooper Offline
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I was reading today about the arrest of 5 men in the UK.

They were stopped in a vehicle close to the Sellafield nuclear site.

It is understood that they were videoing the installation.

Sellafield is responsible for decommissioning and reprocessing nuclear waste and has a bunker that stores about 100 tonnes of plutonium.

I did read that they claimed they were going for a picnic.

So either they were up to no good, or they are the most stupid people in the world.

Whatever, as always be alert.

God Bless Roy and Helen


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#896192 - 05/04/11 12:53 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Petra Offline
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Roy,

Never know what people are up to, but taking a video sends red flags to me.


Petra



Last edited by Petra; 05/04/11 01:55 PM.

Invasion of Aliens!!!
#896199 - 05/04/11 01:56 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Petra]  
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Dan Sullivan Offline
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Dan Sullivan  Offline
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It's clear that nuclear energy plants are now the highest value targets for terrorists. Security measures need to be increased at all these facilities and there also needs to be fail safe measures in place to ensure that power to these plants is never cut off and that emergency generators are in place in sufficient numbers to sustain the plants in the event that power is lost.

One of the worst decisions man has ever made is to use nuclear fission for the production of energy. Not much can be done about it now except to make heroic efforts to protect these plants from sabotage or accidents.

There are no permanent storage facilities for spent nuclear waste and no way has yet been found to permanently store or dispose of nuclear waste. Most waste is stored on site in cooling tanks or dry cask storage containers at the nuclear plant that generated the waste. Of course, these are all vulnerable to sabotage or accidents.

There are over 440 nuclear power plants in the world, providing about 15 percent of the world's electricity. There are 104 nuclear reactors at 64 sites in the United States

Even if every nuclear plant in the world was decommissioned today, there is no way to permanently dispose of the poisonous waste from these plants, which remain toxic for thousands, and in some cases, millions of years.


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#896203 - 05/04/11 02:15 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
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Petra Offline
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Hi,

Just was at my twitter account, amazing what you find there. Here is a link re: Navy Seal Dogs. Though it is unclear if the dogs were used in this mission. But thought this is interesting and never knew about these dogs.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/a-us-navy-seals-secret-weapon-elite-dog-team-110503.html

Petra

Last edited by Petra; 05/04/11 02:19 PM.

Invasion of Aliens!!!
#896222 - 05/04/11 03:26 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: ben willis]  
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Sam Wilson Offline
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I'm curious........ If we, as US military (Special Forces), could find bin Laden, can we not find all of his best buddies and either kill them outright or imprison them......for the sake of humanity?

If that be not possible, then what else can we do in order to further destroy al-Qeada altogether?
This is but one step, we need to do alot more (even if it does involve outright first degree murder of known terrorists) before our message gets through.


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#896271 - 05/04/11 07:15 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Sam Wilson]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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My response to Bin Laden's death was relief. I certainly would not look forward to "the trial of the century", the cost of which would be billions...nor the slim risk of him walking on a technicality, nor the idea of an astonishing jailbreak.

I don't care to worry about the technicalities of the rules of war in this case, and I don't apologize for the fuzzy ethics of my opinion. I'm generally a pacifist, but this is one of those cases in which I very much appreciate the expediency of a swift end to someone we all know wished the same for most of us. The way it went down displays more shades of gray than black and white clarity...but it's done, and I am relieved. Right or wrong, I'm relieved...and I'm willing to bet most of you reading this are also relieved.

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it." -Mark Twain

#896300 - 05/04/11 09:55 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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The death of Bin Laden,has certainly left more questions than answers.Was he still involved in post 9/11 outrages, such as the Madrid bombing in 04',or the London bombings in 05',or the failed airline bombing(shoe bomber) in 09'..and other Al Queda outrages,if he was, then perhaps the head of the snake has been cut off,but if he wasn't,then i would suggest his death won't change the "Franchise" of this organisation.Also, Pakistan,is it guilty of "running with the hair & chasing with the hounds"..it really is very hard to believe that he didn't have support from somewhere high up in the hierachy of that country,why would the USA carry out the mission and not inform the host nation,that in itself tells a story,but leaves many questions unanswered.But you know,we in the West,we really have learned nothing from Afghanistan(America supported Bin Laden against the Russians)..or Iraq(again the west supported Hussein against Iran)
Now we are on the verge of another fine mess in Libya,which will surely unfold.The so called "War on Terror" was initially on the premise to wipe out the Al Queda training camps in Afghanistan,(they just moved them to Pakistan,and now The Yemen)after 9/11,that was a Bush/Blair crusade,which has been carried on by the new administrations in both countries,and some allies...But the bottom line is,whether Bin Laden is dead or not,as long as we in the West ,continue to intervene militarily,and try to impose "our values" in Muslim countries,we will serve only to inflame Jihadist fever around the world,especially amongst the Muslim Youth in these countries and beyond their shores...Terry..

#896327 - 05/05/11 02:57 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Well.. it's hard not to intervene. If they had left us alone since 9-11, this would likely be the end of it all. Obama wants out, and this would have given folks closure. But of course it never ends. Our Western values happen to be right when it comes to treating women worse than cattle (at least they don't usually rape the cows and then put the cow to death for it). Where are all the feminists in all of this? We hear them crow about every little thing in the USA, but massive numbers of women are not allowed to vote, not allowed to drive, not allow to be seen in public, are considered guilty with a death sentence if they are raped, which happens frequently with no one defending these abused women. The men have multiple wives. When that happens in the USA they lock everyone up and call the Mormon extremists monsters even though it's all voluntary for all parties, but in Islam, apparently it's just fine.

Western values include human rights for all. Freedom of speech in public places. Those are not bad things. I don't feel guilty about expecting fairness and good treatment of women. And these monsters who see it otherwise I have no sympathy for. I find it disgusting that feminist women on the left ignore the atrocities but whine about their treatment here. They are hypocrits of the first order. The fact that Palestinians were openly protesting Bin Laden's death as was Hamas, who leads them means they are enemies of the world, yet the left supports them over the Israelis who those monsters are trying to kill. After the slaughter of an innocent Israeli family (with small children who were also slaughtered) the Palestinians celebrated in the streets by handing out cookies to everyone. Sick monsters. I don't feel guilty about supporting western values or inserting them anywhere we can.

The ever changing details and stories are once again removing the respect this administration earned. The had months and months by their own admission to plan this.. didn't any of them consider things like showing proof of death, or photos, or perhaps getting the story details right so as to avoid mass conspiracy theories now popping up. No one seems to stick to any storylines two times in a row. It makes our leaders look like incompetent morons. They are once again pulling defeat from the jaws of victory.

I am curious Dan, doesn't your old journalistic instincts start glowing red with all this nonsense? What are these people thinking?

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#896328 - 05/05/11 02:59 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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By the way, lie to the youth long enough and they will grow up believing the lies as fact even in the face of proof to the contrary. We're indoctrinating our kids in the USA as well and have been for many years with leftist ideas. I guess that makes more Democratic voters, but it has also weakened our country to its current state. Very sad.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#896334 - 05/05/11 07:32 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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Well, it's May 5th, 4 days after UBL's demise, & I SHOULD feel lots of Pride & "Closure" after all that went-down May 1st.

As an American War Vet, yeah, I AM proud..that our country..CAN obviously settle ANY Score ANY WHERE & we HAVE the dedicated Manpower & Leadership to see-things-through.

Even if it takes a whole Decade. Even if it makes us "look bad". Even if we lose Top Secret Helicopters..that our enemies can replicate & kill US with... Even if it proves our $3+ Billion-in-Annual Aid "Friends" were suckering us for Years...

Why? Because we've maintained Our National Credibility. Because we've TRIED to perpetuate some sense of JUSTICE that's frankly been felt-lacking-a-bit, all around this Planet.

Because, JMO, just for once The Good Guys WON IT.

I question the Choice of Date..(Google May 1st/Communist Holiday)..and I question the Administration's LACK of getting the story "right" when first-released, & especially question the ineptitude of first offering a Dead UBL Pic..then reneging on that offer a mere day-later. (This is NOT Brilliant PR.)

But..warts-&-all, THANKS GUYS for providing us ALL here with what's maybe as close as it gets to "CLOSURE"..this week anyways, for the extreme Evil-Done back on 9-11-2001.

#896339 - 05/05/11 08:37 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: "Tampa Stan" Good (D)]  
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Brian you make leftist ideas sound evil......now that is very sad and a very clever piece of propoganda. It looks like even you too have been fooled.
Do not forget that nearly all the wars and conflicts in this world were started by right wing power hungry megalomaniacs. The working man has always and will always just be an innocent ignorant disposable pawn in these power struggles with little or no say in them.
It is ironic that somehow the innocents who suffer most from those power struggles also take all the blame.
Full marks to clever right wing con men for achieving this. They have everyone bamboozled. These power hungry people come out as heroes and just to rub salt into the wounds THEY portray the working man as stupid, lazy and somehow responsible for all the evils in this world.

#896345 - 05/05/11 10:08 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Dan Tindall Offline
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Dan Tindall  Offline
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It depends how you define 'leftist' ideas - Chairman Mao's belief that power come from the barrel of a gun would sit very nicely with current foreign policy objectives for most of the western nations - but I'm guessing you mean the principles of Social Democracy, which struggle to make headway in the face of big business and the military.

Liberty is a precious and hard won thing and should not be thrown away in pursuit of vengeance. I realise that for Americans the whole event of 9/11 is so emotional it's hard to see beyond that, but the idea that somehow 'leftist' ideology has weakened American resolve or makes people unpatriotic is just daft - Tony Blair and Bill Clinton began the whole 'liberal interventionism' that has led us to where we are today (Iraq, Afghanistan) - the previous right-wing administrations avoided long conflicts, or used more covert means of control.


#896350 - 05/05/11 10:31 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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I sure am glad we are not taking this thread in a political direction (ha, ha). As for the missteps by the admin in post-Osama event -- the fog of war, the fog of war, baby. ... but yes, they do seem to be idiots semi-incompetent.

Kevin

#896351 - 05/05/11 10:42 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Tindall]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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"By the way, lie to the youth long enough and they will grow up believing the lies as fact even in the face of proof to the contrary. We're indoctrinating our kids in the USA as well and have been for many years with leftist ideas. I guess that makes more Democratic voters, but it has also weakened our country to its current state. Very sad. "


Which I guess is why the Republicans and ultra right wing Christians rewrote history and the sciences and revised all the school books in Texas (which because of its size means many other states buy them as well) to spout their own beliefs. Even sadder.



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#896356 - 05/05/11 11:14 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Tindall]  
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Dan Sullivan Offline
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Brian, I agree with you in supporting Western and Judeo-Christian values, though I disagree with your contention of "inserting them anywhere we can," if by that you mean supporting the policy of exporting democracy from the barrel of a gun.

After 9/11 I supported the mission to rout the Taliban from Afghanistan, which was accomplished by about 100 Special Forces troops and the U.S. Air Force in a matter of months and at the cost of a few billion dollars at most. Once we let bin Laden escape, I argued we should have thanked the tribal warlords for their assistance, turned the country back over to them and left them a "Have Gun- Will Travel" card, reminding them we'd be back if they were unable to keep people like bin Laden and the Taliban from reassembling in their god-forsaken land. Then we should have partnered with friendly governments and used CIA, intelligence assets, drone strikes and Special Forces units to conduct clandestine strikes against the leadership and infrastructure of Al Qaeda all around the world.

But what do I know.

I don't believe Islam is any roadmap to the Promised Land and I don't buy their theology, but I also don't believe we should replay the Crusades. I'm not particularly troubled by Muslim religious rhetoric or how the Arab people choose to live. If their women are okay with their place in society, it's okay by me. I went to a Catholic grade school. If Muslim women wish to dress like Catholic nuns, that's no concern of mine.

But when anyone takes up arms against us, we need to defend ourselves and put down the threat, no matter where it comes from or what ideology it represents.

My views tend to be more isolationist than imperialistic. Containment worked against the Soviet empire. Intervention hasn't worked so well in Lebanon in the '80s or Iraq or Afhganistan in the last decade.

As for the Keystone Cops public relations routine by the Obama administration since the takedown of Osama? That's all politics and more reflective perhaps of a general sloppiness and incompetence in the use of propaganda than of any weakness in policy-making. When faced with the critical decision about what to do about intelligence which appeared to pinpoint the location of Osama bin Laden, President Obama made the right call. In the end, that's what mattered, not how well his PR officers explain it.

The general confusion and conflicting early accounts of the Osama takedown and the back and forth about releasing death-mask photos is just part of the fog of war and the normal confusion and disagreements during a crisis. If anything, it serves to prove the death of Osama wasn't faked or staged, notwithstanding the paranoia of conspiracy advocates like Alex Jones. The sales job would have been much better rehearsed and performed if it had been faked.

I'm just thankful the U.S. Navy Seals are better at their job than the White House PR department is at theirs.


Last edited by Dan Sullivan; 05/05/11 11:17 AM.

Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

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#896358 - 05/05/11 11:31 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
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Dan Tindall Offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Sullivan
I'm just thankful the U.S. Navy Seals are better at their job than the White House PR department is at theirs.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/us-military-backtracks-stories-history


#896444 - 05/05/11 08:48 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Tindall]  
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I rarely interject in political discussion, I dont know very much, music life is what I know and politics are even more subjective than music. smile

However I couldn't agree more with Brian's first two posts. There spot on and all the values, credit and perspective is in the right places. Seeing it any other way defies logic and common sense to me.

Quickly the things I clearly remember about 9/11 that day were"

1- Losing my long time friend and singer of my band. And after wards attending services for firefighters we knew through family and friends.

2- Thinking we were under some massive attack? Literally War!
The fire from the first Tower burst out of the other side so I thought it was hit by a missile or a bomb from the inside. I didn't see the first plane.

3 - Telling my wife on the cell phone "What? I can't hear you this plane is flying so low above my head" The second plane.

4- Now Knowing it was going to fly into the next tower and watching the flight, I felt so helpless and scared for both the people in the plane and in the building. I actually looked around and saw an Aced-line Tank near me at work. And in a James Bond like second I thought if I pointed the tank to the sky and busted the valve off the thing would shoot like a rocket and try to hit the plane. That's how CLOSE it was.. Also hoped the plane would clip our huge crane below it by about 50 feet and crash in the water and our docks. Scared about that but realized we were few and scattered, the tower? and beneath it? Oh my!

5- Watching what looked like falling debris from the Towers but realizing it was people jumping to death rather than burning alive. Then the eventual collapse of the massive structures. Thinking my God how unbelievable and TERRIBLE this is, and how somehow how fortunate that they came straight down.. When you think of buildings like that falling you think tipping over

Do you have any idea how many more lives would have been lost if any part of either one of them TIPPED.

The men and woman of the armed services and the leaders and government seeing this through.. THANK YOU!


All these current issues are related, tied in together, but just a few thoughts from my simple musical mind.

The Photos & Back Lash.

1- If I HAD to make a choice on releasing the photos publicly I would decide against it. What I would do if need be to satisfy everyone best I could was, hold a time and place where the President or VP or The Secretary of State and the immediate family of the victims good view them in private if they wanted to. For they are really the ones who may really feel the un ending need to see them. The soldiers lost since families, they would have faith that our troops got the job done, I'd BET on that. And the rest who just want to see a photo could look at the countless Photo shopped fraud pics that the internet will have, The terrorist will see those as well. And they KNOW if he's dead or not you can bet on that pics are irrelevant the more you think about them.

2- These people don't need more motivation there gonna do there thing no matter what they see hear or know. They put death before life, no changing that. They are cowards they do not SCARE, showing them photos or anything wont scare them. Not only do they not have panic attacks - they drive planes into buildings
without steering away to safety.

But I feel that while OTHERS will follow/replace Bin Laden THEY will not find a leader as potent as he was. He was a key figure in Afghanistan for years before, he goes back to the fight against spreading Communism backed by us I believe correct me if I'm wrong like is said I dont know politics very well. Most of all His family was RICH!

Such a rich powerful and influential leader is not easily replaced in my opinion Thankfully!

They will try of course but they have been weakened as we as a world have strengthened and tightened up since being caught totally asleep on and right before 9/11

Overall...
The middle east is and has always been in crazy turmoil and war, when we interject we make them stop fighting each other for a minute and give them a common enemy US! We are like the police of the world. And regardless of our shortcomings WHERE & WHAT would the world be like if we weren't.

I'm not proud to be an American today I'm proud and lucky to be an American every day.


Thanks!
Peace Mike
Sub

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#896447 - 05/05/11 08:59 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
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Samuel Harris Offline
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To get the most mileage out of the killing of this guy, it should be emphasized that he was living in comfort: that his kids were drinking Pepsi and playing American video games. The persona that he liked to use was that he was a Spartan Pious Monk-like Muslim God. He was a frail, self important excuse for a martyr. The real spirit of the youth he tried to reach was expressed in the "Arab Spring"...freedom loving, communication savvy and educated. They are not going to strap of a dynamite belt and die for imaginary virgins.

The cold war ended. I think the war on terrorism will end because something else will take it's place. Killing is tiring.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
#896451 - 05/05/11 09:58 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
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The French used to hate us...kicked-out NATO HQ..in the '70's, if ya remember. Lotta backlash towards "The Rich Americans"... Then..Paris got flooded with Rich Japanese Tourists, as Japan got wealthy off the Electronics & Info Revolution...& then Americans got off their "Most-Bated-List', & the Japanese took our place.

And..as it looks now, eventually it'll be the Rich Chinese..replacing the Oil Sheiks. There'll always be "Somenody Richer" to hate, especially if you've got a 3rd World Economy.

JMO..& J My Observagions over the years.

Best Wishes & Big Hugs,
Stan

Last edited by "Tampa Stan" Good; 05/05/11 09:59 PM.
#896473 - 05/06/11 02:22 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: "Tampa Stan" Good (D)]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Terry Moore  Offline
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America cannot possibly be the Worlds Policeman much longer,and it should'nt be..Give the Russians or the Chinese a shot at it,see if they can do any better,they always seem to condemn or abstain,and the West do all the dirty work for them..BTW,one of the worlds most evil,corrupt despots,is still ruling his country,even after rigging his own country's elections,namely Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe,but he is in Africa...not much use to the West really,....double standards??....Terry..

#896492 - 05/06/11 08:33 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Terry Moore]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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I do not think we will ever find out the whole truth as to exactly what did happen in the lead up to and Bin Laden's murder/execution or whatever term is appropriate and what happened to his body afterwards. So far there have been a few conflicting stories as to what exactly took place before during and after. This does the credibility of the Seals and Obama and the American nation much harm. The first rule about giving a press conference or passing on info is to make sure you know the full facts and tell the truth BUT when making up stories or telling lies it is best to make sure everyone involved knows what has been agreed upon and sticks to the script.
I do not accept that the Pakistan authorities had no clue that the world's most hated man was and had been for several years in residence in a purpose built "mansion" (reinforced concrete box)right next door to one of their major army installations. So much for their rejection of extremist Muslim factions and so called fight against terrorism. Now some people think Bin Laden should have been taken alive and put on trial but I am of the opinion that an International trial would have been of little benefit and under the circumstances almost impossible to achieve.
That said with the worlds media scrutinising every move America made and makes now they have done themselves no favours by the cack handed gung ho way this whole episode has been mishandled and by the way the news of Bin Ladens death was "celebrated". We as a civilised society should not stoop to the level of the terrorists we are supposed to be fighting by behaving in this uncivilised manner.
There will of course be replacement leaders of Al Qaeda and some of the names put forward are even more dangerous than Bin Laden himself.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/the-man-who-will-take-over-from-osama-102967
Some say that Bin Laden was not really the brains behind most of the atrocities in the first place.
It seems that the events of the Arabian Spring will hopefully determine the future of the Arab Nations and Al Qaeda will fade into obscurity with new found freedom, democracy and education. Fewer Arab youths will be brainwashed into strapping bombs to themselves and will follow the true peaceful teachings of Islam.....but it might not be in my lifetime.

#896496 - 05/06/11 09:41 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Originally Posted by Big Jim
Bin Laden's murder/execution or whatever term is appropriate...
ha, ha -- at least we know that those two terms are not appropriate.

#896497 - 05/06/11 09:46 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Big Jim
Bin Laden's murder/execution or whatever term is appropriate...
ha, ha -- at least we know that those two terms are not appropriate.


"Extermination" maybe?

John

#896500 - 05/06/11 10:40 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Big Jim
Bin Laden's murder/execution or whatever term is appropriate...
ha, ha -- at least we know that those two terms are not appropriate.


The American nation's reaction to the news was not appropriate either.....and the er ummm "confusion" and changing stories over what exactly happened is nothing to laugh about. Or is that JUST shame and embarrassed laughter I hear. I do not view any of this whole fiasco as anything to laugh about.

#896502 - 05/06/11 10:45 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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I don't hear anyone laughing. The only people who really know what happened are the SEALs that were in the rooms -- and I bet their stories don't match exactly. It is hard to get it right. Yes, it would have been nice to spend a week or two figuring out what really happened and then release the "official" story. In the era of 24/7 news coverage, camera/video phones, tweets and what-not - the admin just didn't have that luxury.

Shouldn't we just say that I am glad the admin is trying to get it right and be thankful that they can admit initial errors.

#896503 - 05/06/11 10:46 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: MikeB]  
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Originally Posted by MikeB
Hi Brian, smile

(Religion is o.k. - institutionalized religion is a problem.

Michael


Brilliant!

#896506 - 05/06/11 11:06 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
I don't hear anyone laughing. The only people who really know what happened are the SEALs that were in the rooms -- and I bet their stories don't match exactly. It is hard to get it right. Yes, it would have been nice to spend a week or two figuring out what really happened and then release the "official" story. In the era of 24/7 news coverage, camera/video phones, tweets and what-not - the admin just didn't have that luxury.

Shouldn't we just say that I am glad the admin is trying to get it right and be thankful that they can admit initial errors.


I wish that we could say that and wish it was true. I can understand how in the heat of the moment people can make some "initial errors" or get some minor details wrong.....BUT some of the huge differing recollections and opinions of events and discrepancies in facts make you wonder if they were actually there witnessing the same thing. As I said earlier if you are going to concoct up a story or bend the truth then make sure everyone gets it right.
Be under no illusions...this whole episode and the aftermath has not shown the USA in a very good light.

#896514 - 05/06/11 12:00 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Originally Posted by Big Jim
Be under no illusions...this whole episode and the aftermath has not shown the USA in a very good light.

... and we really don't give a [naughty word removed]!


#896526 - 05/06/11 12:50 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Ray E. Strode Offline
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Ray E. Strode  Offline
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Well,
I remember an "Incident" when I was in the Navy. I was in a Patrol Squadron deployed to Japan. The Mission was to Patrol the Sea Lanes in and around China, Korea, etc. One of our planes was lost with all hands. We served as Liason to other Squadron's that may have a plane fly in for a short stay. I was the Assistant Duty Officer. One day a Pilot that had heard of our plane loss asked our Duty Officer what happened. Our Duty Officer, who was a closet Comediean said, It Crashed. Not much mystery here. Not much mystery in Ben Laden's compound either. He "Crashed".


Ray E. Strode
#896529 - 05/06/11 12:53 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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MikeB Offline
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Republic of Ireland
Dak... I see you get the point... smile Imagine more people did....

"...what a wonderful world this would be.... " smile

Michael

#896566 - 05/06/11 04:58 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: MikeB]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Ironic, all the Pakistan anti-American protesting going on because of the bin Laden extermination. I wonder how many of these protesters have benefitted from the billions of dollars of US aid given to Pakistan through the years (including another 7.5 billion approved this month ).

Right on brother, "we hate you, but we'll take all your hand-outs". That's some screwed-up ideology. Ayn Rand's "Age of Envy" is in full bloom.

John

#896605 - 05/06/11 09:20 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Jim, (I'll never call you Big Jim again as a form of respect) because you don't deserve it anymore. Your anti American anti Christian sentiment only shows ignorance. You've gone way too far this time.

You may also find that your biased opinion is ignored by most people here because frankly, no one cares about what you think.

Bigotry is a thing of the past. Please stop practising it.

#896657 - 05/07/11 06:46 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: ben willis]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Ben I am no bigot just a peace loving Atheist and socialist who sees things a bit different. I am only stating MY opinions AND whether you like them or not they are held by a lot of people outside the USA......Many rational unbiased anti gung ho liberal Americans also agree. Ben if you want to see bigotry you need to look a hell of a lot closer to home...try a mirror.
Take a look at yourselves. You have a habit of invading smaller countries whose politics are not to your liking especially if they have huge oil reserves. Not exactly the actions of so called Christians.
Kevin the fact that you do not give a F....only adds weight to my argument....and reinforces my point......maybe the day you do start caring...then USA as a nation will be respected more especially by the Arab nations.
For the record about 1 million innocent people have lost their lives as a result of Al Qaeda's terrorism....the vast majority are their fellow Muslims. 911 and the London bombings etc just brought it a bit nearer to our shores. Terrorism must be fought. I just do not like the "Christian" way some people fight it.....and I hate the way that we prop up despot tyrant rulers just to get their oil. We are now reaping what we sowed all those years ago. The truth hurts so I am not surprised people are attacking the messeneger.....is that not part of the American way.

#896675 - 05/07/11 11:29 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Dan Sullivan Offline
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Dan Sullivan  Offline
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MI
America went from being the defender of democracy in 1941 to history's greatest Imperial power in 60 years. We went from winning World War II in less than 4 years to an endless "war" on terror now approaching its 10th anniversary with no end in sight.

"The 40 year war - the rise and fall of the neo-cons from Nixon to Obama" is he most cogent explanation of the rise of militarism in America I've yet seen. Written by Len Colodny and Tom Shachtman, the book is a sobering account of how a small group of ideologues, who believed our nation had both the power and the right to exert an American hegemony over the world, influenced administrations from Nixon to Clinton before finally rising to power and taking over foreign policy in the Bush years.

The rest, as they sadly say, is history.

None of which changes the fact that Osama bin Laden was a mass murderer who got what he deserved.


Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

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#896682 - 05/07/11 12:17 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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I agree with what you say Dan except for the part about America winning the war in less than 4 years. I think Britain and other allies played a more than small part in that especially prior to the USA involvement. America arrived late and probably would never have taken part if it was not for Pearl Harbour.
Bin Laden was a mass murderer with approx 1 million victims most of them fellow Muslims. I hated him and what he stood for as much as the next man....I just think America handled his assasination and the aftermath very badly. I just hope that we learn from our mistakes...sadly history has a habit of repeating itself and the USA persists in making mistakes and failing to learn from them.

#896691 - 05/07/11 01:01 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Ray E. Strode Offline
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"Scotland" Jim,
Believe it or not, we would all like to do things your way. And as long as things are quiet we "Go along" with the less pleasing elements of society and the world. When someone like Hitler, "Tojo", or Bin Ladan comes along and decides to up the stakes as it were someone has to react or the whole shooting match comes tumbling down.

While you don't read it in the Papers or hear glowing praise from some of our "Percieved Enemys" most secertly praise us in private. I will give you the current turmoil in the Mideast as an example. They are uprising for a reason. End of Story.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 05/07/11 01:02 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#896709 - 05/07/11 02:16 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Right wing Ray I just hope we let them have their uprising and then leave them alone to sort out their own democracy rather than as was done before try to either impose our ways or put up a puppet dictator who is in our pockets. End of story.

#896711 - 05/07/11 02:28 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Ray E. Strode Offline
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Well, "Overshoot Jim",
This post has gone on too long but you may have heard, Someone has to keep the Trains running on time. Actually today that is keeping the roads paved, the airlines flying and the electricity flowing. And of course making those microphones you need to record with. But I give up. Some will never learn.


Ray E. Strode
#896741 - 05/07/11 04:18 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Samuel Harris Offline
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One thing I love about the country I live in is that I don't have to take the mistakes of my government personally. I am just as free to criticize it as someone living in Scotland. And we make plenty of mistakes. But sending in the Seals to kill a mass murderer was not one of them. It is the way the whole 'war' should have been managed.

It was a mistake to invade Iraq. George Bush # 1 knew it- George Bush # 2 blew it. That "war" should have been a special operations from the beginning- a non political, determined, sustained, under-the-radar, special op. Had we done this, Bush 2 would have been mildly criticized for a few weeks for not being tough enough- and then when the snakes head was severed, he would have been praised. The War" would have been over in months, not years. But the war machine industry was hungry for profits, leadership was weak, and the nation was in shock so we lashed out at the usual suspects. Yes this country blunders time after time and repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I am not proud to be an American- but I am grateful.

I think dogmatic beliefs, be they religious or atheistic, are probably responsible for most of the woe on Earth. Millions of so called Christians believe in the Rapture, a magical event where God reaches down with his mighty hand and takes all the good little girls and boys and leaves the rest of the sinners to suffer a world controlled by the devil. This is as crazy as believing that virgins await the Muslim martyr for killing people who believe differently that he does.

No wonder people are atheist! But I find something very curious about many atheist. Many actually view themselves as righteous! Atheist believe in peace, justice, equal opportunity and freedom. If you press them, you will find they do believe in something- perhaps their own common sense, or sense of justice. But they are reticent to tell you where their 'sense' comes from. I guess we are suppose to believe that somewhere in the evolutionary process, cells arranged themselves in the central nervous system to create "concern for others", "justice for all" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Why can't we just admit the truth- none of us "know". In bible language, we all are looking "through a glass darkly"


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
#896747 - 05/07/11 05:47 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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What a great post. A great sign of strength is to admit ones own weaknesses. I am no greater or wiser than the next man. I am the first to admit my own weaknesses. I do believe in common sense....a few people especially political and religious fanatics seem to lack this attribute. I do not bear grudges however and try to treat people with respect even if they do not show the same back. I am in the fortunate position of not being indoctrinated into any religion or political ideology. I was taught to think for myself, never take things at face value and ask probing questions. I have a fairly broad knowledge and an open mind and can draw my own conclusions from hearing both sides of any argument. I always try to side with what I see as honest and fair for everyone. Sometimes I do not take sides as I see both as wrong .The problem with religion and political dogma is that it is passed down from generation to generation without question and is usually pretty unfair to the weakest. In fact some people are taught not to ever question. So a lot of people cannot see the elephant in the room.
If I have any sense at all I have no idea where it came from other than me hopefully knowing right from wrong and having a sense of fairness. I have been involved with people with learning difficulties and other handicaps for most of my life and this has caused me to ask many deep questions about the meaning of life, religion and politics. So far I have not come up with many answers other than a lack of trust in ANY religious ideology or politicians. I see them as hypocritical and either, stupid crooked or containing misguided people who are more to be pitied than censured. I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and philosophy provided that it does no harm to others with different beliefs. I do however feel that some people are pretty naive in following something blindly without question. One thing for sure we are taught that we are all equal.....but why do some have more equality than others.
My "hate" as some people call it is not actual hate it is just me pointing out what I see as wrongs or unfairness. It is not just aimed at the USA. I have the same feelings for most religions and politicians including my own countrymen. Life is unfair but rather than accept and perpetuate unfairness I would rather we try and change it. The most important thing I see is to admit that it is obscene that someone lives in the lap of luxury whilst others die of starvation or preventable disease.
Sadly there are few people who would follow this.....cause if even a small percentage did then most of the worlds major problems would be solved. It is also obscene to do any harm I the name of religion....what God if there is one could ever condone this behaviour.
Finally nothing I say is ever meant to be taken personally or as a personal insult...I do not work that way. If someone feels insulted then I am afraid they have to look at themselves and their religious or political beliefs to see if they are fair and stand up to scrutiny.
Rant over.

#896748 - 05/07/11 05:50 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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Dan Sullivan Offline
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MI
Big Jim, I certainly didn't mean to diminish the role of the Allies in the defeat of the Axis powers. Britain stood as a mighty fortress against Hitler, and the British people withstood all the Luftwaffe could dish out and never caved in. The Russian people were heroic and the tide began to turn against Hitler when they beat back his army at Stalingrad. And let's not forget the Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese and other Asian people who never rolled over and laid down for Tojo.

I only meant that the war was over less than 4 years after the Americans joined the Allied forces in Europe and the Far East. No one in their right mind would diminish the role played by Great Britain in stopping the madman Hitler.

Last edited by Dan Sullivan; 05/07/11 05:51 PM.

Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

https://dansullivan2.bandcamp.com

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#896749 - 05/07/11 05:53 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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Mackie H. Offline
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Mackie H.  Offline
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NASHVILLE, TN
ALL--

This has been an ongoing LYRIC of mine since 9-ll--HOW I FEEL--Finally I added a verse that gives some closure, at least in my mind--DEDICATED TO ALL WHO LOST LOVE ONES, AND ALL OUR TROOPS LOST, WHILE FREEDOM'S FIGHT STILL GOES ON:


RED WHITE ‘N BLUE
c) 2011 Mackie Humphries

V1
We all remember when thousands died
Miss Liberty watched planes cross the sky
Twin Towers fell live on the news
Shock to the heart of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.

CH 1
But America’s best they still fight on
Like our Eagle we fly on alone
In time OSAMA will pay his dues
For striking the heart of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.

V2
We bow our heads for loved ones gone
And raise our flag as we search on
One day the devil will get his too
Dealt by the hands of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.

.....................SOLO....................

CH 1
Yes America’s best they still fight on
Like our Eagle we fly on alone
In time OSAMA will pay the dues
For striking the heart of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.

AND THEN FAR AWAY..................……
WE TIGHTEN THE NOOSE
THEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE...........

BR
Night Hawks fly in the dead of night
Their swift strike snuffs OSAMA’S life
Now, that devil has paid his dues
His bones lay deep in the SALTY BLUE


CH 2
Yes America’s heart - is tried and true
Don’t tread on her she’ll walk on you
Now OSAMA has paid his dues
For striking the heart of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.

TAG
At ground zero we’ll build anew
To heal the heart of RED WHITE ‘N BLUE.


Mackie

Last edited by Mackie H.; 05/07/11 05:58 PM.
#896764 - 05/07/11 08:06 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Mackie H.]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Dan..... Do not forget that the our fantastic Britain once had an empire where we invaded every 3rd world country we could find. We gave them civilisation in return for all their cheap labour and natural resources which we plundered mercilessly.
Dan as a pacifist I am against all violence and conflict. There are no heroes in war.....only victims. Every soldier who has ever fought in any war is deeply affected emotionally and sometimes physically....yet whatever happens there is always someone wanting to start another war pretty soon after every war finishes. It seems that something in us wants to push the self destruct button. I remember a documentary on discovery where they listed the great scientific discoveries and inventions of all time and how they came about. Nearly all of them were primarily thought of and used first as a weapon or for military purposes before being adapted for peaceful use. Sad that such great minds were first and foremost used to destroy rather than create or save.

Nice song Mackie.....just a trifle too patriotic for my taste.

#896773 - 05/07/11 09:17 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,414
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,414
Indianapolis, IN USA
Jim,

I am curious, are you suggesting that the UK hasn't been there, in lockstep, with the USA in all these actions? Why aren't you pointing your anger at your own government?

Brian


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#896835 - 05/08/11 10:51 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

Top 20 Poster

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Brian the UK gov have been there with the USA. As stated in my earlier post my "anger" is not just at the USA. I was from day one totally against Blair and his illegal war in Iraq. History has proved I was right. He was either very naive and was hoodwinked by Bush into believeing false intelligence (lies) or was a down right liar himself. I suspect a bit of both. He and Bush should be charged with war crimes. They both proved to be laughing stocks and liars. I do not know why this whole thing was not dealt with by the United Nations and if any military action was needed then it shoud have been a UN force properly sanctioned sent in.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2721513.stm
Britain has been the US poodle for many years and as such should take our fair share of the blame. Sometimes I am ashamed to be British.....I suspect that secretly some Americans are ashamed to be USA citizens.
I somehow get the feeling however that the UK played very little or no part at all in the Bin Laden assasination and knew nothing till the events unfurled.

#896838 - 05/08/11 11:31 AM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 369
Alek Offline
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Alek  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 369
Ukraine
Jim, I don't make any statements - questions only, but first - story that happened here in Ukraine recently:
Israel intelligence(seems, Mossad) had disclosed and brought to Israel one Palestinian terrorist who was in Ukraine. Ok, but Ukrainian government didn't know about this case and they just had known this from papers. By the way, Israel special services
did such a strikes many times when they caught their enemies abroad.
Next: US army caught Saddam Hussein and brought him to a court.
Well, now my questions:
Why US didn't charge Osama to bring him to a court?
Maybe Osama knew too many things to be disclosed in a court?

#896844 - 05/08/11 12:54 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Alek]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,831
Dave Rice (D) Offline
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Dave Rice (D)  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,831
Texas
Hi Alek:

I don't presume to supply the answer "Big Jim" will eventually post... but I'll give you my ideas on your question.

Thank goodness Bin Laden did whatever he did in that room full of Navy Seals to get himself killed. I do not know if the present US Administration had a "show trial" in mind but thank goodness we won't have to endure all that endless parade of lawyers and idiots.

Some here in the US have still not accepted the fact that we are at war with a cowardly enemy. It is true, as long as extremists willing to die for misinterpreted idealogy are willing to kill innocents with bombs attached to themselves, this war will continue... probably worsen. Make no mistake, we will eventually win. You understand the problem because of the current situation in Chechnya.

...and yes, the Israelis fight wars to win. They have no choice.

My best to you and the good people of the Ukraine.


#896866 - 05/08/11 05:03 PM Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead: Thanks US & Military & Intelligence! [Re: Dave Rice (D)]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 369
Alek Offline
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Alek  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 369
Ukraine
Originally Posted by Dave Rice
:

You understand the problem because of the current situation in Chechnya.


Dave, thanks for reply, but what do you mean about Chechnya?
Tell me and then I can tell you much more than you know from the media

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