JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Recording Studio and Gear Forum Next Piece Of Equipment?

I have a studio with:
Studio Projects mic and tube pre amp
rnc compressor (used lightly for incoming vocals etc.)
Line 6 UX2

I have very good monitors and a decent recording space.

I feel that my equipment compliments each other well considering it is all intermediate stuff (if that!) but I would like to get clearer sounding tracks so I am thinking I should get a nice ad converter? I think that is what they are called. Any thoughts on how to improve my recording chain?
Thanks,
Ricky

UPDATE: I have concluded that my recording input chain is good enough for now and that my next piece of equipment is going to be a Reflexion filter. Thanks for everybody's help!
Ricky

If you really have a decent acoustically treated recording space then I'd look buying a reasonably good audio interface which includes decent preamps. Focusrite have a good reputation with their Saffire range and RME are even better if you can afford it. I wouldn't bother with any additional external preamps at this stage as you really want a good clean recorded sound which can then be coloured at a later stage.

You may also want to try a few different microphones as Chinese mics aren't always very consistent and you may have ended up with a dull sounding sample. I heard huge variations between different samples of the same Chinese mic when I bought my first large diaphragm condenser mic.

Once again - you only need think about new gear if you really have your acoustics sorted out.

James.

You did not mention what you are using to record to. If you are using a Computer Recording Setup you already have a Analog to Digital Converter built in. Before I bought anything else unless you need it I would test what I have thorughly to see if I am satisfied with the resulting sound. You can buy too many gadgets that do little to improve a setup.

Thank you for responding Ray,
I am pretty happy with my sound/recording Just would like it to be a little clearer/cleaner. I may not need to buy anything else right now I just wondered when or if I did what should I replace or add. Fixing up my recording space even more might be necessary!
Ricky

James,
Thanks for your thoughts. My recording space is certainly not perfect but I have tried a few things that have really helped. Bass traps, isolation pads, and foam behind my monitors and behind my listening position. I am not in an ideal room for sure!

If I posted a vocals only mp3 would you be able to tell if I am getting a decent recording from my mic? I think I would post 2: One with the tube pre and one just straight because I'm also curious if the tube pre is adding just a little too much warmth even though I think I have it on the lowest setting.

How about a reflexion filter for behind the vocal mic? Have you tried one of these?
Thanks,
Ricky

These do work reasonably well for rooms that don't have the space for a dedicated vocal booth.

What type of music will you be recording? Do you use acoustic instruments? Are you doing vocals?

Ricky,

I listened to your songs and I think the recording quality is pretty good. I think you might be able to improve your mixing and use of EQ, stereo space, etc. to make improvements before spending any money on better equipment.

My serious recording studio owner buddy would probably tell you to get the best pre-amps you can afford first, however.

Thanks Dak I appreciate it!

Songcabinet,
Mostly rock/Americana. I use some acoustic guitar and sing all vocals.
Thanks,
Ricky

Colin,
Thanks. That helps a lot. I think I remember listening to your recordings on your web site and they sounded good. I will go back there to compare. I think I have been just a little lazy in my mixes lately as I have been trying to write a lot of songs. I am also considering going to a studio and see how they mix songs. I bet if I paid them for an hour they could answer a lot of my questions.
Ricky

Hey Ricky,

As most have noted, I think the primary goal is clean sound capture. If you can capture it clean, and aren't so good with the production side, that doesn't matter, as other folks can help you out when you have a problem - as long as the primary recording is solidly captured.

A good quality microphone, sound dampening such as a reflex shield, and line levels set right, would be the primary focus. Gadgets are great, but do little to enhance anything, if the primary feed is distorted, or full of background noise.

As the audio guys say, ...... sh*t in = sh*t out

cheers, niteshift

Ricky, I think your best upgrade at this point, if you don't have it, would be a serious sequencer programme like Pro Tools or Logic. The software in programmes like that can be thought of as extensions to your chain, and will enable you to get way better sound out of your equipment.

If you already have that, I would suggest upgrading your Line 6 soundcard, as it seems the weakest link in what you have outboard at this point. If you are on Mac, an Apogee Duet interface could improve your chain, or a TC Electronics Impact Twin interface if you are on PC, or an RME Fireface. All of those have great converters in them for the money.

You don't write what tube pre you have, but anything below an ART Pro MPA, would also probably beg for an upgrade IMO. A poor pre can do you more bad than good, so it's better to invest in a solid interface and a daw, before considering the preamps in my experience.

Thanks mange,
I am using Reaper which I think would compare to Pro Tools or Logic as far as sound quality. My tube pre is a Studio Projects Vtb 1 that got great reviews for an inexpensive model of tube amp. I am also using a PC.

You bring up another question for me. So if I bought preamps how would they fit the chain right now? I assume I am using the preamps in the line 6 soundcard so would I bypass them somehow?
In other words buying a preamp would not replace anything in my chain at this point?

I appreciate your advice on the interface as I have been wondering about that and I will do some research on my tube pre as compared to the Art pro MPA (or better).

Thank you very much for your time you helped out a lot!
Ricky

If you have good converters in your soundcard, your signal won't be degraded by running it through two preamps, like your would if you were using say a Great River running into a Fireface. The good signal from your first (good) pre won't be altered by the preamps in the soundcard. So even if you've got a great soundcard (with built in pre's), it's still worth it to get a good outboard preamp, in my experience.

Thanks,
I really thought that a good pre amp might be the next piece of equipment. So with a tube pre and soundcard converters would that be 3 preamps? I would assume use the tube just enough to warm it up then through the "good pre" and then through the soundcard but turn those pre amps down if not off.
So the chain would look like this?

mic - compressor - tube pre - "good pre" - soundcard - computer

Ricky

No, I was referring to the pre's in the external soundcard (which also amplifies the signal). Using two preamp's like you suggest, won't do anything for you, and probably just distort the signal.

So, the chain should be:

"good"room-"good"vocal/instrument-"good"mic-"good"pre-"good"soundcard-computer

It's all about getting the best signal from the beginning of your chain starting with room, vocals and instruments, run it through good analog hardware, and have good converters so you don't loose the good stuff.

I would mostly suggest compress in the computer, though it can come in handy compressing slightly on the way in. The TC Electronic's Impact Twin has built-in dsp compression & eq, and I think that more and more external soundcards feature this.

But it can come in handy to have a really good outboard compressor, preferably multi-band, aside from that, to beef up the final mix. Not so important, when you are only doing acoustic and vocals, though.

For your use, a really good mic and/or a tube pre is what will give you the most sound.

But be aware of all the cheap tube simulations out there. Below the 1k range, they most likely won't do anything for you, so if you run a low budget, it's better to stay away from them, and get that saturated effect with a plug-in (which is both cheaper and more flexible).

A good budget pre could be the Presonus Eureka, or the SPL Goldmike (which can be found fairly cheap on e-bay).

If you run higher, some of the stuff from Universal Audio (UA), like the 710 Twin-Finity, the UA Solo 610, the Great River ME-1NV (not valve) as well as an SPL Channel one, are really really good. Next step up fra those would be high end, where you can get Neve's and stuff like that.

But always try out before you buy. Experiences of sound are subjective, at least for the use in a home setup.

justmytwocents

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse here. It is the quality of the dry recording that counts MOST......warming, using pre amps, compression and fx etc comes post record but are only of any use if the initial recording is of an acceptable quality. I have heard some great recordings done with pretty crap equip and some howlers done with state of the art mega expensive gear so it is important to get the best out of the gear you have and be able to identify the areas that are weak. Any one weakness in the chain will show up and affect the whole project.
I would concentrate on the basics first. Getting them right is what I would worry about most. Get a clean dry recording.
1. Make sure the recording area is sound dampened with as much soundproofing as poss (place or hang duvets, carpets, blankets clothing foam pads etc etc around the mic to eliminate as much ambient and reflected sound as poss.....avoid being close to any hard shiny surfaces.....and keep well away from windows and any electrical equipment (fridges amps computers etc.) a reflection filter really works. I would recommend the SE Electronics filter http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html
2. Use the best mic you can afford and spend time to make sure you find the optimum gains and levels plus placement and distance you sing from. This is crucial as most mics especially the bottom of the market will both add to and also take away certain parts of the sound spectrum so bear this in mind when you EQ your mic. It is also worth considering that certain mics suit certain voices so take this into account when selecting or buying. Do not forget to use a decent pop shield and placing the stand on a deep shag pile rug will help stop picking up sound from the floor.
3. Cables are important so invest in decent cables with good connections.....many pops, hums and buzzes etc are caused by poor cables or poorly soldered joints.
4. A good quality interface is next. No need for all singing all dancing multi channels if you only record one thing at a time. Remember that you may also need phantom power.
5. A decent sound card is necessary and a PC with lots of memory and a fast processor. Most people use an external hard drive to store their work as many large wav files take up oodles of space and will slow down the PC possibly causing latency.
6. Finally you will need decent software. I have not used Reaper myself but am reliably informed that it will do the job. Most people will at some point progress onto more professional products like protools or Cubase.

Thank you for your replies. I am doing some more research of some of the products that were mentioned and am also listening closely to my recordings. Right now I seem to have a slight quiver on most of my tracks. Noticed especially on high e string on my guitars. I have had both of my guitars tuned up by a professional and double checked the intonation. I thought maybe it's the room but even straight plugged in as DI I still get the quiver. I originally thought it was in the compressor or the pre amp but I have bypassed both of them. (It's in the vocals too)

I am plugged straight into my Line 6 and then straight into computer. Could it be the Line 6? That is what I am about to research.

UPDATE: Well after a little research it does not appear that the Line 6 ux2 is my problem. Is a high quiver on the e string normal? And could it still be the room even if I DI?
Ricky

You certainly shouldn't be hearing a quiver which indicates some kind of echo or speed (sample rate) problem. Does your Line 6 interface allow for direct monitoring? Is it possible that you are hearing both the direct sound and the slightly delayed recorded sound at the same time? If so, take a look at the control panel program that came with the Line 6 interface.

James.

The quiver you refer to, or something similar, can happen on an acoustic guitar quite often in the right situation. It probably has to do with sustain and certain frequencies rebounding and reverberating.
I have that issue with one or two guitars but it only manifests in certain rooms or situations.
If you can pinpoint that frequency you may be able to compress just that frequency using a tight, nearly non existent decay time.

Thanks James,
After listening a little closer I think the quiver is only on the high strings of the guitars and not on my voice. My voice had a little distortion to it so I thought it had the same problem.

I checked and I am direct monitoring.

Ricky

Dak,
Thanks. I think I may have to do that to get rid of those ugly frequencies. Have you ever tried to Auto Tune it? I was thinking of duplicating the track and roll off mids and lows and use Melodyne on the highs and mix them back in with the original. I THINK Melodyne would be able to do this. Does anyone know?

Ricky

According to the demo video I've seen, Melodyne DNA can tune individual notes of an acoustic guitar chord. If you are just playing individual notes the standard Melodyne should do it.

James.

There are EQ and mastering products that will eliminate certain frequencies..that is the best answer to resolve the quiver issues......Melodyne and similar products will fine tune notes and even chords etc BUT it will not eliminate such quivers......

To digress momentarily just listen to the current pop songs from the "stars"...they use these Autotune and Melodyne products as vocal fx probably cause they cannot sing in tune anyway.....most of it just sounds like whining and quivering to me anyway. LOL

Thanks Jim. The quivering has really been driving me nuts on my acoustic and clean electric tracks. I will try some multiband eq and I am sure that will help. I have Ozone 3 which I think is good for stuff like that. Just need to learn how to use it!
Ricky

Thanks James,
Just something thought of and wondered if it might work. Sounds like eq might be the best way to go but I might fool with Melodyne just for fun also.
Ricky