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I was wondering if anyone can give me tips on recording acoustic guitars?
How do you get the boominess out?
How do you get that sizzling presence that you hear often?

I record using protools and I record through a Beringer Mixing board that has eq on board so I can try to take out the boominess that way.
I use small diaphram condenser mics. I have tried to record up the neck (14th fret) and over the sound hole and some times it's ok but usually it is a struggle to get a good sound.
It seems like it is never the same from session to session, song to song and it is never easy.

Help!

Thanks,
Tom

Use the bass roll off on the mic if it has one. When you mix, put a bass rolloff from 150 hz on down. Point the mic at the 12th fret about six to eight inches back for starters. Get someone to play the guitar and crawl around on the floor putting your good ear where the mic would be and plugging the other ear with your finger, then move around and see if you hear any "sweet spots." I use a Shure SM-81 mostly, but have used 57s and had good luck with a Neumann TLM 103 (not the one I would have guessed, but it was good.) Today I cut a guitar player who brought his own mic, an Audio Technica small diaphragm condenser that sounded good. I never cut the guitar with compression to the track, if I use compression I use it later. For the sizzling presence, there's nothing that beats new strings and a limber pick. A lot of rhythm players here in Nashville like smaller body Taylors, they used to use a lot of Martin 000-18s and D 18s before the great Taylor revolution. A friend of mine, who could afford any mic he wants, is crazy about the small diaphragm Samson. Others like the small diaphragm Neumanns. Mostly, it's the guitar. You want one that has a fairly balanced sound just a little heavier on the treble. A real bassy guitar sounds great at a party, but can sound muddy and lose the sparkle on top. Of course a good balanced guitar can have plenty of bass, but it is a "tight" sound that doesn't wash out the highs.

Hope that helps, Tom, good luck. I've been recording acoustic guitars for years and have never gotten them to sound the same twice, LOL.

Mike

Good stuff there Mike.
Acoustics can be tricky. I can never seem to get one to sound "bright" always sounds a bit muddy to me.
One trick I did learn is do not record over a carpet if you want the brightest sound.
If you have carpet put down some type of hard surface on the floor under the guitar. It will reflect rather than absorb the sound.

I think Mike and Bill covered it but FWIW, I use a small condenser mic over the fretboard pointed at the fretboard, not the soundhole. If you wear headphones while you strum the guitar, you can move the guitar around relative to the mic until you find the sound you like. Most people keep the mic about 6" away from the frets, but Pete Townshend says his engineer gets great sound about 2 feet away.

Once you track the guitar, you can use EQ liberally but you can't really get the boominess out if it's already in there. I have found that a cheapo acoustic might sound better than an expensive one when recording a rhythm (strumming) track. Fingerpicking does sound better on a better guitar. Flatpicking sounds about the same as long as the strings don't buzz too much.

I recently set up a 6 string guitar with Nashville tuning using the high strings from a 12 string set. Tune it as usual except the 3rd - 6th string are tuned an octave high. Record an additional track of strumming and pan it differently from the other acoustic and it adds a lot of sparkle to the song. (Listen to my Time For Change song).

Colin

An instrument that's not intonated can sound dull and/or hollow so a good setup can help. Different strings can give you different sounds too so there's a cheap way to experiment with your tone. Different picks will give you different sounds too and are even cheaper than strings.

Then there's the room and where you play in that room. Walk around the room you like to record in while playing. Where does it sound good to you? Play there!

Once you've got all that happening, if the guitar doesn't sound good, move the mic. If it's too boomy, point the mic away from the sound hole or back it off. If you want brighter, point it toward the bridge. If it doesn't sound good that way, try putting the mic over your shoulder point down toward the guitar (essentially, as close as you can get to your ear without hitting your head on it.) If the room sounds good, try an omnidirectional mic, it won't have the proximity effect or increased low end that a directional (cardioid) mic has.

Sometimes the carpet can be a good thing because the hard surface reflects the kind of high end you don't want. It's good to have the option to try it both ways.

Although I'd warn that carving out a carpet flap for one's recording endeavors could be spouse unfriendly!

Mike,
You made my day by saying that you can never get them to sound the same twice! Thank God it is not just me. Is there a Tayor model that is most popular?
I am starting to read between the lines that what sounds the most thrilling to your ear may not be what sounds the best recorded.
I have two guitars a Taylor 714 and a Martin D18GE, both resonate deeply inside me. But to get that sound recorded . . . Well as I mentioned that is the other story. I think my Taylor is the bassy guitar that sounds great at a party and the Martin has that tight sound you mentioned.

I have tried the roll off and that eliminates the rumble thank you. I will try lighter picks too, I am begining to think that light gauge strings may record better as they don't overwhelm the mic.

I will also keep an eye out for those mics (samson and sure) I use an Audio Technica and a Rode now. (I will have to win the lottery to get the Neumann I think)
Mostly, I am resigned to the fact that I start from scratch each time.
Thank you Mike for taking the time.
Tom

Bill,
I am with you on the muddy sound. I want that bright sparkling sound!
Thank you ,
Tom

Bill,
I really like the sound you got on Time for a Change. You did not use that Nashville tuning on the picking parts though right? I would supect the strumming parts. . .
As I mentioned to Mike I have a Taylor 714 that has this huge bottom end and I may be tempted to try that Nashville tuning on it. I will ask the guy in the music store to explain it to me.
Thank you,
Tom

Nate,
Pointing the mic at the bridge was a big help immediately. I still get the fullness of the sound hole sound but it takes away the boom.
My room sucks sound wise. It is my office, desks, file cabinets, walls, computers, not good.
But it is just me. If I could find a friend who is into this songwriting and recording thing that would be great I could set the mics up in another room but for now it is just me and the office.
Thank you Nate,
Tom

Tom,

I assume you meant me!

Correct - the Nashville tuned guitar is just strumming on the far left to brighten it up.

Well if you are still expermenting,

I don't know if you are just recording the guitar or doing vocals at the same time.

As a start assuming you are doing vocals I would put the Mic about arms length, right in front of you, lined up with the center of where you are. On vocals put the mice about level with your head, if doing guitar only about the center of the guitar, again at arm's length. One Mic only and then do some recordings and play them back and see how you like the resulting sound. Guitars, strings and surrounding acoustics will all affect the sound. Microphones will pick up things you don't hear but the Mic does. Then adjust from there if you are hearing something you don't like.

Sorry Colin,
I got on a Bill roll.
Not easy being my age.

Ray,
Thank you for your response. I do not sing and play at the same time. I could but I do them very poorly already and find concentrating on one then the other helps.
I will give that a try, arms length, center of the guitar.
Thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom

Great advice above..
What happens often is we get a set up and we keep using it to move things along. It's nice to have the time to mess around some with the mics and the guitar.

Stay away from the hole if you don't want boom and some mud

Here are some keys for me that have turned out okay

1- The strings!!! I use light gauge on my Martin and ALL bronze.
Not the half, all.... The extended series set are clearer and more powerful

2- The pick, I use a medium pick 90% of the time I play a guitar
but when I strum an acoustic its' a THIN pick 90% of the time.
Thin picks make bright sound and they get that great slapping effect of hitting the stings on to tape.

3- Hit The Guitar! - I see many people come into the studio and kiss the acoustic guitar. They ask me - How did you get that sound"? Well It starts with how I hit the guitar. SOLID!
Extra smack with that thin pick...

4- When I'm doing a song where acoustic is "featured" and not just accompanying I use TWO mics. So it's a stereo effect. One on the neck one near the bridge.

Ideally when I'm engineering I can move stuff around and listen more, but 80% of the time it's ME playing and recording and doing the song for the first time ALONE to the click
So sound sometimes takes a back seat lol when there's so much to focus on.

Also sometimes depending on the guitar going line in from it's pickup with and a mic combo is very cool...

I also use an over the shoulder technique. I place a boom over my right shoulder and angle the mic so it's right where you ear would hear it... a bit lower but close. MAke sure your headphones don't bleed to much when doing that.

WE hear our guitars from above so why not record them that way sometimes

All the best
Mike
Sub

Mike,
Best advice ever!

I agree on the strings completely. Elixer light gauge Phosporus Bronze are my favorite.

Light picks for strumming!?!? I did not know that. I am heading to the music store this morning to get some.

Hit the guitar! I did not know that either. Though I hit the guitar when I am playing for myself I am a baby in the studio so as not to over whelm the mic. But I will turn my gain down and levels down and play more naturally. I can't wait to try it.

Two mics, I have two small diaphram condensor mics. They are not a matched pair, they are not even the same brand. But I think that is ok and I can wait to try two mics, neck and bridge.

I do not have a pick up in either guitar so that is not an option. I have heard of that over the shoulder technique. I will give it a try one of these days.

And I am with you on being alone in the studio. I wish I had friends that were into this like I am but none of them are. So I do everything.

Thanks Mike can't wait to try this stuff.
Tom

A cool thing you can try if you record in stereo is do two passes. Use one mic from the first pass and pan full left. Use the other mic from the second pass and pan full right. It's a cool sound.

Cool Tom.

Yeah if you hit the guitar a bit harder you can back the mics up a touch as well or lower the gain.
And yes the light picks are great for strumming.

What Nate mentioned is cool two, double it. You need to be accurate that way though so it doesn't sound off. Works well if a song is not featuring acoustic, yet you do want it to stand out strong in the song. But if it's more a background blend it won't be like "Hey that's doubled" Same goes with vocals, it ALWAYS sounds great at first then down the road your thinking
"it bothers me now" Similar to the "chorus" effect.

But the intimacy is to have one guitar, the two mics will give you that panning effect option so it feels like two.

I just bought a rode k2 and can't wait to see what it can do. I have gotten pretty decent sounds with 6 and 12 string guitars using a akg 451b at the bridge and a blue baby bottle mic about a foot from the soundhole and slightly toward the neck. No luck so far with pointing either mic at the 12th fret, though.

Oh I forgot to mention. I have also used the fishman blender in my 6 string it has a mic in the soundhole and an undersaddle pickup with pretty good results, keeping the pickup from making that horrible quack that I can't stand and boosting the mic, but that can be dangerous, I've found.

I'll let you know if the k2 helps.

John

John I wish you well...remember to try out various distances, different mic placement and levels as trial runs till you find the best to suit your circumstances.

I finally got to recording an acoustic piece I had written a while back. I recorded it with the k2 pointed slightly downward at about the 14th fret and with an AKG c451 pointed at the bridge. I did record it twice and panned the two tracks at 3 and 9 oclock.

A little eq and compression and very little reverb were added later.

You can hear this recording if you want at johnduniganmusic.com on the music page. It's called Air. I added the cello using midi.

I'm really liking the K2 mic. And am very happy with the akg c451

The k2 does not seem to handle harmonica very well...

Best,
John

Harmonicas are difficult most people stand too close and the mic picks up all the huffing and puffing plus all the distortion from the harp. A half a step back should make all the difference.