JPF Home Page Forums Creative Arts Forums Creative Writing Forum Question for all you bookworms (and parents)

My daughter is 12 years old, she has to read books for points in school, if she fails to read a book and reach a certain number of points every 3 weeks she gets a 0.

OK, so here's what happened....

She came home the first week of school with a book, "House", which is a Christian book, bestseller, etc. The book is about people who get stranded, find themselves locked in a house with a homicidal maniac who is possessed. OK...with me so far? I didn't read the book, but I did read the back cover (where we get info about the book and decide if we will read it (this is how it is for some of us anyway)and the back has the description and refers to the can the demonic character tosses out for the people to find and read...it says (what i remember):

House rules:
1. I killed God
2: I will kill anyone else as I killed God
3: Unless you give me one dead body, then I will let rule number 2 go

So...I don't like the idea of my twelve year old reading a book where the main character is the devil and says they killed God. If she wants or has to read about the battles between good and evil in this sense, I think she should read the bible, not this book. I tell her to take it back. Two weeks later, I find the book in my car, she didn't read on but she didn't return it. She had plently of time to get another book and read it to test, she got a 0. I'm ok with that, because I didn't want her to read this book. She didn't follow my direction and return it, so she's going to have to deal with that.

So...I send a note to school about why I didn't allow her to read the book, after she got the 0. Why? Well, they had to do bear crawls in athletics if they failed any course for the first 3 weeks, this counted as a failing grade. I don't agree with the type of punishment, athletics has nothing to do with reading, but I did send in an explanation along with letting them know when I first told her to return it.

I recieve a letter form the librarian, one she had written to the reading teacher who has forwarded it onto me.

"This is a classic case of judging a book by it's cover. the info the parent got was from Wikipedia which is not an academic site. It does not promote the death of God. The novel is Christian Horror written by a top Christian writer"

So, my thinking, yes, I judged the book by it's cover, the same as I would judge a porn mag by it's cover and find it not suitable for my child, or even forget that, I wouldn't allow her, at 12 years old to read the Exorcist, Pet Cemetary, or anything in that range as I don't believe she is old enough or mature enough to handle the imagery.

This is a child who heard the Myan (sp?) calandar ends in 2012 so she thinks the world is ending then and has cried over it, forget that the culture dissapated and that alone could count for the end of the calandar. This is the child who gets so worried if I don't answer her phone calls the first time that she almost panics, but yeah, let her read about this and say that because a "Christian" author wrote it, it's okay. She has (as well as so many of her friends of the same age) enough to fear without going to sleep at night with this on her mind too.

So, did I over react? What would you do?

Hmm, yes, it's difficult....... my chidren are 12 ( boy ) and 10 ( girl )

I've had similar situations, where I didn't feel the text material was appropriate, age wise. I suppose you could descibe us as a liberal household..... question, think, learn,.... be informed, so nothing is too much of a shock, and at the same time with a "moral", if you like, standard Christian ethic.

You asked if you over reacted ? Yes, you probably did.

Educators will always try to provoke thought. Real educators demand it. ( I used to be one for a time )

I entrust my kids into a ( public ) school at the moment. It's not so bad, but am thinking seriously about transferring to a private school, perhaps because it fits my value system better.

But, that school MUST provide a learning experience, and must provide an environment where learning is paramount, and is not skewed in a particular direction.

If you're troubled about the text, and troubled adout the cirruculim, then speak with those that are teaching it.

Punishment ? That seems totally wrong, but I don't understand your circumstance. What I would reccomend is constructive dialouge, and take it from there.

cheers, niteshift

I was in this situation several years ago, I went to the principal and he had that book (or a book like it) taken from the shelves....he didn't like the book either and was against children reading this kind of material..they are trying to get where the kids don't say the National Athem in schools, or say a morning prayer..then why let this be in the schools??? Not at this ages anyway....later own when the child has grown some and can handle this kind of material,but I wouldn't read it, so why let my children.......hope this helps........glyn

Hey Glyn,

I must take issue here.

Believe me, your kids know much more that you do.

We live in a society. That, you may like, or that which you may despise. But it doesn't do any good in trying to hide what is out there. They're exposed to it, so you, as a parent will hopefully confront the issue ( whatever it may be ) and take it from there.

It is totally up to the parents, what they decide. That's all anyone can do, IMHO.

cheers, niteshift

Hey Glyn,

I must take issue here.

Believe me, your kids know much more that you do.

We live in a society. That, you may like, or that which you may despise. But it doesn't do any good in trying to hide what is out there. They're exposed to it, so you, as a parent will hopefully confront the issue ( whatever it may be ) and take it from there.

It is totally up to the parents, what they decide. That's all anyone can do, IMHO.

cheers, niteshift

I agree with every one of your points, and the action you took. I would have done the excact same thing. As parents we are entitled to judge a book by it's cover. We don't have time for in depth analysis of everything we encounter. If they don't like that, they can make a more appropriate cover!

Hey Mags,

Yeah, it's REAL difficult to get an apropriate outcome.

Damn it, it even harder then writing a hit tune. I'm not being flippant, I'm just being real.

If I could share a quick anectdote.......

I spent the last month in Malaysia, differnet cultures, different people. ( and lovely by the way )

We stayed in all places, 5 star resorts sometimes, and sometimes in the seedy areas. I want'd my kids to experience reality.

Well, they got reality, and it wasn't all that bad. I have now a very fond memory of myself and my son, sitting on the front steps of a particular hotel, me having a cigarette, with a beer in hand, which I allowed him to sip, and watching the passing "trade". We now refer to it as "my special friends".

Now, some may refer to that, as "out of line". ( His mother would do so, if she knew ) but as a responsible parent, I explained it for what is was, and ( I would hope ) that his value system would ignore it for what it is.

There's probably going to be many viewpoints here, ( and I'm ready for it ) but all, are parents, and will do the best that they can to try and navigate through the turmoil.

cheers, niteshift

Nite,
This is basically recreational reading for a grade. It's not text for teaching so imo, it's not an educational experience for her to read this particular book. I'm not opposed to her ever reading this book, just not at the age she is. As I said, maturity is the key here. Yes, I could have bould the book, read the book and made a decision, but as Mag says, there isn't always the luxury of time. Adding the nature of the material, and information given on the cover, to my own belief that not only is it wrong to even imagine killing God (as the author has to create the character)but it's wrong to put this into the hands of children whose mental capacity has yet to catch up to their size, it's just a bad idea. Yes, my daughetr is a mature young lady, in the sense that she knows right from wrong, she understands consequences, and she can differenciate between fact and fiction. However, she is, and will be for a little while longer, a child.

I agree with free thinking, I agree with questioning, and as a matter of fact, one of my younger family members practices Wicca. I don't agree with Wicca but this child is 17 and able to make a decision for what is an appropriate spiritual outlet for them. I actually talked the mother into allowing the child to explore because of the maturity the child has shown. If this child was 12, I would have had a fit, I don't believe that age is when we allow decisions such as this to be made. Of course, I did research on Wicca to find out enough to discuss this with the mother first. I did it because I did have time...which is a major part of how decisions are made.

I'm not hiding what's out there, I'm simply not comfortable with the material chosen and do not feel good about letting her read it. As I said, she is a worrier, why add to it?

If it were an educational experience that she could not get anywhere other than this one book, I might have considered it, but this isn't neccessary, imo.

Glyn, I wento the the people who are responsible for this program and grading for it. If they had insisted she read it, I would be on my way to the school. They aren't insisting she read it, they are simply insisting that it is appropriate material for that age group, I strongly disagree.

And yes, let me say again, I have not read the book, and I have no desire to. There is a reason children have parents and parent have the ultimate decision making power...lol....because we would have a society of drones if we allowed the school systems to take charge. I think I was most insulted though, when the teacher signed the note with a PS...thanks for taking an interest in your daughters studies. I know, some parents could care less, I was raised by one, but seriously, come on!

Caroline--

IMO you have every right--The school board, Librarian and teachers are at fault.

Children are innocent and will follow what they are taught--Today with instant feedback and news--Kids are expected be exposed to everything--result:
Millions of kids are on RX drugs for an array of things--values and proven teaching methods should be the NORM, not the inverse.

I'm 72, an engineer and mathematician--I made it OK without any of the CRUTCHES that KIDS have now. OVERTEACHING AND OVER EXPOSURE has been
proven, and presented in THE LITERATURE time and time again as an overall detriment (MONEY MAKERS FOR PUBLISHERS)--All of the Classic Books and Poetry I had to read--helped a great deal along the way--
Education in the early years has gone too far in my opinion--Slow natural BACK TO THE BASICS learning of the last Century GOT US WHERE WE ARE TODAY--I'M AFRAID HELL WILL FREEZE OVER, BEFORE IT WILL CHANGE.

I STARTED IN AN ORPHANAGE--Old ideas were all we had--not much of a LIBRARY--But with Good teachers and Limited Facilities--we got THE BASICS--
Many schools don't dwell on the basics and/or FAMILY VALUES--They don't seem to have the FLASH and CONTROVERSY that the DIGITAL WORLD has to offer.

Good Luck with your efforts on this one--

Mackie

Is this a public school or Christian school?

Nite,

It's good to have friends...lol. That sort of situation is completely different, you had no control over who walked down the street.

We have no control over what others around us do, say or think. That is all but avoidable most of the time. When it is something avoidable, such as oh...I don't know...hiring the special friend for a special favor...that would be crossing the line, allowing your child to witness something that should go against the way you want to raise him. Would you have allowed your son to witness an act of the trade simply because it does occur?

It's simply a question of allowing lessons and life where it's honestly necessary and not adding to the turmoil of a childs mind when it's not.

Public school.

For the record, I'm not opposed to good verses evil in the library, simply the presentation at the age level should be appropriate and I don't feel this is.

I'm still torn, I know, I agree that I probably did over react, but I still am not convinced this is good materal for this age.

Hi Mackie,

Exactly!!! I didn't have all the access to information the kids have today and I made it just fine. I didn't have the issues they have because I had to learn, not program.

The school is a small school and I pay tuition because it's not the school in the town we live in, I drive them 30 minutes one way every day and pick them up. They go to this school because it isn't flooded with drugs, gangs, and such. I also like the values thay live with in this small community. I'm just floored by the idea of this being available. Next thing we knowkids will bring books home on how to buld a bomb, or make poison, 100 ways to kill someone without being detected and all made available to you from your junior high library...what kind of stuff are they going to have to get before it's not appropriate?

OK, I have to go get ready to get my little darlings.

I will be watching the thread as possible this evening.

Yes Caroline,

I quite agree. I guess what I'm saying, is that, I want him to be brought up as a decent young man.

And that deceny, and that those values taught, will be provided by those around him, who will ( hopefully ) give him guidance, and give him a good path on life. And hopefully he will have a team of mentors, who will do that for him.

I'm only Dad. Just only of those.

I guess I'm just saying, if you're a srong person in your beliefs, it you're open to others, and you explain it in a certain maner, then you'e fine.

My example was geuine, and the way it was. I think it's a parental guidance which makes the difference.

cheers, niteshift

Thanks Nite,

Makes perfect sense, you're a good guy. I appreciate the input, helpful, veyr helpful.

Hey Caroline,

I just don't think there's an end to the example, and an ends to the means. Good luck with it ( and to us all, as parents ) , that's all you can do, just do your best, as you expect from them.


cheers, niteshift

I am not a parent and have not had to deal with such issues, but I do remember that my reading at 12 years old was pretty lame compared to what you described. We were reading some classics in school which I suppose involved a few beheadings and such.

I suppose one of the things to think about is whether parents should be second guessing the education supposedly designed by experts. On the other hand, the experts don't know the maturity level of every kid in school and there is a big variation at that age.

Some of my friends have kids in that age range and I am not sure they could handle books about homicidal maniacs who are possessed.

Not much help......

Caroline,

My son is 9 and autistic and I monitor lots of stuff and he is afraid of books that have a scary looking cover. Every child is different and has different interests and yes, they all need to be exposed to different things...within reason.

I would suggest to the teachers that an appropiate reading list should be provided so that you and your daughter and choose from it. I do think it is okay to allow some limits to be pushed, I remember reading "The Witch of Blackbird Pond", very different for me and loving it...but you can't freak them out with horror, small manageable steps is more appropriate for that age group.

Tammy

How can one punish a child for not wanting to read a specific book, when there are hundreds, no thousands of other children's books available at any library. This a a power/control thing. If the reading is for fun, how much fun is it if you don't care to read what you were assigned. I made the teachers accept the fact that my son would pick a book that he would enjoy, and they simply had to approve it. This worked well. He got to read what he wanted for fun, and they got to see how it feels to have to approve a book like parents are often stuck doing. Good luck with this...MFB III

Education is not fun and games. People are assigned work like reading a book so they learn something that the teachers have determined is important. I don't know much about this particular book, but I know that I had to read and learn a lot of stuff that I did not consider fun in order to become educated.

Hey Colin,
I remember those lame books too...but those were required reading, and necessary to read what the teacher had assigned, and everyone read the same book at the same time.

This is not anything educational, per sey, it's a grade because they test on the book they choose from the library. The teacher didn't choose the book, my daughter did. I didn't care for her to it and told her to return it. She didn't until two weeks later, so she recieved a 0 on the book because she didn't take a test on it.

The question at hand...did I over react? was I wrong to not allow her to read something I felt strongly was inappropriate material?

With my reading the cover, deciding I did not want her to read it, and giving the teacher an explanation, is it okay for the teacher to basically decide I should have allowed her to read it, simply because she (well, the librarian) said it was okay.

If it were required reading, I would have questioned the teacher and bought the book to read ahead to make a judgement, but since it isn't, and she could have chosen any other book, am I wrong. Given that she only has 3 weeks to complete book, but loves to read, she could have chosen another and not recieved a 0. So, really that is her fault. However, the librarian is basically underminding my decision by telling the teacher that I am blowing it out of proportion. I didn't go to the school, throw a fit, yell, make any commotion at all. I simply told my daughter I did not want her to read it and to return it and make another selection. The note I wrote was only because of the punishment recieved for the 0 she got. I don't think it was appropriate, and they told her if she brought a note with an explanation she wouldn't have to do this again. So, instead of the teacher accepting the note and moving on...she and the librarian decided I was being silly. All of this, despite the content of the book, the movie made from the book being rated R and the idea that my daughter was given the note, folded but not sealed, and had read it and thought they had the right to decide before I should even think about it, I'm annoyed!

Anyway...I hope my daughter makes better selections and this isn't an issue again.

Tammy,
My 16 year old is autistic and I have to monotor his internet viewing closely. He is obsessed with PoKeMon((sp?) and at one time, was looking up his favorite characters, saving pics to a file and printing some now and then. I was allowing him, without close supervision, because it was PoKeMon, harmless, right? Not so, apparently there are some little twisted folk who decided to take the characters of the kids tv show and make them porn stars and post their depictions online, so they come up in the searches and can be viewed by anyone. And they were...gggrrrrr.

As for my daughter, I have no problem with her reading a horror novel, I have no problem with her reading a love story, but if they were to have Xavier, I would flip out too!! Some things just aren't appropriate.

I do like her to read books that challenge her to think, I don't see how this book would. It would give her nightmares, imo.

Am I sheltering her...maybe...why? Well, growing up the way I did, experiencing the things I did and surviving what I did as a child...not having a childhood, I want my kids to feel safe, be able to not have to worry if they will be hurt, not worry when they go to sleep if they will be woke up in the middle of the night, and not be paranoid about things they shouldn't have to think of until they are much older. They only have 18 years before they have to make decisions that will affect the rest of their lives. Eighteen years to be oblivious to things that really are horrible, and if I can keep them safe, keep them happy, and let them be themselves without having horror novels make them scream through the night, I will do just that! No, she didn't scream through the night, I didn't allow her to read it, but last year she read a book and she was so afraid at night she slept with thelight on for about 3 months. That had nothing to do with God or the devil, and she reacted this way, so I'm sure she would have reacted strongly to this one.

An appropriate reading list, thats not going to happen, it's simply going ot have to be my daughetsr job to not choose books she might think I won't approve of, she knows what she can and cannot read.

Oh no, she wanted to read the book, I did not want her too.

The punishment was because she didn't test on a book at all, and got a 0. The reason she was punished, she is in athletics, and has to maintain a passing grade in every course at the end of every 6 weeks to stay in athletics. She has to stay in athletics because she is a cheerleader and it's required.

My issue, like I said, with the book is the content, my issue with the school is the response. A basic...oh the parent didn't go to school to become an educator so the parent doesn't have a clue. Well, I didn't go to school to become a parent but somehow all three of my kids are alive, thriving and happy. Even the 16 year old who has autism and I certainly do not remember a course of special needs being offered. I am so tired of getting the "you didn't go to school for....." from the professionals who are not ultimately responsible for my childs health and well being, and will probably not remember them in a year from now. When my children are grown, their childhood and parenting, will hopefully have a great impact on their successes. I don't believe they should have to struggle with negative thoughts from a book they got at school.

The librarian said in the note "it's not different than Twain using racial comments to depict the characters of the time he was writing about" I feel that "I killed God" cannot be likened to something Twain wrote. Thats ridiculous to compare the two, imo.