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Sounds much like Rome does it not.

There is still hope for The US and Canada. We've become so rich and corrupt that we feel that we don't need God, He just gets in the way of our sinful fun.

But God said "if we turn away and repent of our sinful ways and seek His face and His righteousness, He will forgive us and heal our lands". This is not a word for word quote but it gives the meaning of what is said.

We have drifted away from our Christian roots and have become evil by accepting evil in governments, business,media,even some of our churches, we turned a blind eye to the truths of the bible and have listened to fables of man. We call evil good and good evil. God help us, no one else can or will.

That's next. Those other countries will be whining about all the Americans taking their jobs

Does anyone know who introduced a bill about 2005 or 2006 to stop it and get Fannie and Freddie under control?
Does anyone know who filibustered the bill and prevented it from passing? Which allowed the Housing prices and the high risk lending to continue until the meltdown?

I wonder what would have happened if the car companies did not get bailed out. Would they have closed for good? I seriously doubt it. And even if they had the other car companies would have picked up the slack. It would have hurt a bit gut it would not have caused our collapse.
I think it possible the Bailout might actually be contributing to our current continued decline.
But we will never know so it's a moot point.

OK, this time these thoughts actually did lead to a 50/90 song. Of course, in this song even the farms are going. Thanks for the inspiration: Big Black Crows

Kevin

Hey Kevin
Good one my friend.
Doom and gloomers shoulda been in there someplace.

And since all three of my Grandkids are out of work and don't have any prospects I may need that farm sooner than I thought.

I think what's wrong is all those damn songwriters, doing nothing but nonproductive lala songs all day long, just to please music supervisors and a&r people! What has become of us??

you have clearly defined the problem at the core of all our problems Magne

its the dam songwriters

now-let's get em

Tom

Magne,

I'll try to start sending you some of the 50,000 songs a week written, played and recorded about somebody's issue. I don't know if you have enough mail space for it. There is certailly no lack of them. And you will enjoy having people yell at you all day long because you don't care enough about THEIR issue and how actually it is YOUR fault that there is an issue.

Will try to remember to get a few hundred a day for you.

MAB

Put 'em on the Internet. People will steal them anyway.

I'm a firm believer in term limits for members of Congress. They should be limited to two terms...One in office and the second in prison.

Stevie

They should open the Political Forum back up

Haven't seen you in awhile Naomi {rorrrwww!}

I always find it humorous when people attack the first free country ever to elect a minority to freely lead their country. The KKK hasn't been relevent since the 60's and is usually only ever mentioned or brought to life by lefties desperately trying to paint a wide swath of people with an outdated bigoted pejorative. I imagine you'll find far more IRA terrorists living among you in the UK than you'll find all racist and bigoted groups combined from the left and the right in the USA these days. If you get your news from the NY Times or CNN or any of the networks in the USA, you may as well be getting it from any other extremist propaganda resource from any banana republic.

There were regular random roadblocks in the UK with dozens of black suited battle ready troops with machine guns wandering the streets (and in one case pinning down the occupants of 2 vans we drove by at gunpoint). They asked us where we were going and the moment they heard my American accent, they smiled and waved us past. I think you all have a lot more to worry about in your own home country before you weigh in on ours. We also saw Nazi skin heads in the UK and in Germany. By comparison the KKK is a microscopically small fringe group of jack asses than rarely even show their faces anylonger and wouldn't be taken seriously if they did compared to machine gun roadblocks meant to quell bigotry between 2 brands of Christianity. The UK is fighting bigotry in their own streets with machine guns, the US is fighting one sect of a religion as well and currently is in debate about the financing source for a Mosque at Ground Zero while 100s of others already exist in Manhattan and the location in question is already functioning as a prayer center. The USA is the most open and tolerant county in history.

But the most annoying part of all of this is is that while we all banter this around ALL our countries openly tolerate mass genocide around the world while we speak. Everyone waits for the USA to be the ones to step up and fix things when most of the UN could stop the genocides easily without our help. How about putting up a bit before you point the next finger. (And make no mistake the USA should be stepping up too... but it's sadly clear that the clarion call to "never forget" the WWII Holocaust has already been forgotten or ignored many times by the entire world.

Brian

I get it, Marc! Then at least they will go somewhere

Well,
The main problem here in the U.S. is er ah Jobs. The second problem is JOBS! Too many people are hurting and it looks like it will go on for a while.

Yer right Brian. Everybody wants Uncle Sam to fix all their problems and fund them as well. I haven't heard it for a while but we are lambasted on a regular basis in tne U.N. for not doing enough.

I have asked a time or two on other boards why after nearly 100 years all the social problems in the U.S things aren't fixed by now. About one sixth of the Populus is on some Government assistance. If the Polls are accurate there is going to be a bloodbath in the next election. People are tired of more debt with no end in sight. Aw well, this is fun isn't it?

I just read an article in Time about how Obama became Mr. Unpopular. I don't put a lot of faith in those type articles and I'm not sure if the 2010 elections are really a vote on Obama. I think people are just sick of the wicked hypocrisy permeating many of our government leaders and the way it trickles down to everyone else. As for Obama, I didn't vote for him and don't agree with almost anything he does except the way he loves his family. I do like that.

Hey Bob! Yeah I've been up to my eyeballs in oil. I got called to work to clean up BP's mess only to be laid off bc of their "Out of sight out of mind" attitude. So now I'm back to doing what I was before Going through the gauntlet to compete for jobs with millions of others applying for the same one, lol.

It's good to see we still have a political voice here though.

Hmmm...The Blame Game.

Was watchin' a bit of a Bio on TV on Warren Buffett. World's Richest Individual..AND..he's an American.

Warren's rarely just "Invested" in a Company...he likes it..he BUYS & runs it. Had 35K Investors in HIS Co. show up at latest Shareholders' Meeting...all of whom seem to be gettin' Wealthy via his Investment Philosophy. Plays Bridge with Bill Gates...world's SECOND richest guy...ALSO an American. (Also created MANY an American Millionaire, too..)

This Country AIN'T broke YET...just needs to pay More Attention to the BUSINESSES rather than the BANKERS here.

Currently, China and Brazil are THE Growth Countries...PARTLY because their Gov'ts WILL help ya start up a New Business AND they WON'T tax-ya-to-death as ya develop it. (They're ALSO very busy HELPING their Middle Class DEVELOP so they, too, CAN Afford many of the Luxuries we-uns like to take for granted.)

Here, we're verging on taxing the MC to-death..then blowing the National Wealth on Foreign Wars and Oil Imports.

Just One Self-Employed Person's viewpoint. Been-Here long enough to watch it happen, too.

Best Wishes,
Stan

Just being nit-picky here, but according to Forbes Magazine, Buffet is currently the third-richest man with $47 billion, behind Mexican tycoon Carlos Slim Helu with $53.5 billion, and Bill Gates with $53 billion.

... billion here, billion there, pretty soon we'll be talking about some real money.

Hi Dave,

Britain has been a socialist society since the second world war and for the next 30-40 years after we were the envy of the world due to our National Health Service and the social security system. The NHS means that everybody who is ill will be treated and cured if possible regardless of status, our social security system provides a safety net for the poorest people so that they do not have to resort to crime just to live. Europe is similar.

The rich would like to "go American" and do away with these things (so they can pay less tax) but they really do not understand the consequences of your "free market economy", having poor people starve or die from curable illness's would make us a 3rd world country and the change in society would result in far more unrest, crime and corruption.

The British people are very prone to violent rebellion, we have always had a comfortable secure living, if our government takes away these hard fought for 'rights', we will be doing far more than the peaceful protests and occasional riots that the past 50 years have seen. The first time that our police force have to use guns on public disorder, it will herald a civil war.

The answer is that the rich must pay more taxes for their own security because if they do not, the poor will kill them and redistribute the wealth amongst themselves, look through history and see what happened to all oppressive societies. Look at your own history and see what happened when the British decided you weren't paying enough tax for your tea!! You rebelled and set yourself free from British rule. Nothing ever changes without bloodshed and democracy should be "by the people for the people", and the vast majority of people are poor so why are we ruled by the rich, why is it every decision made by our respective governments is for the benefit of the rich and to the detriment of the poor ... is this the democracy that we, as country's, fought and died for, I think not!!

I wish I could be more optimistic about the future, I wish I could persuade the rich that capitalism will destroy our societies and that they must relinquish their wealth and power in favour of a more socialist and fairer society but I fear the only way they will understand this is when they are put on trial for the crimes they have committed against humanity.

America likes to think that it is a "Christian" country but I think that Europe is far more Christian with it's socialism and tolerant attitudes towards it's people. America needs to become more socialist but the way the tide is flowing, it is Europe who is becoming Americanised and I can't see this as a good thing, in fact unless the power of the rich is curbed I can only see a lot of bloodshed ahead. The poor will win of coarse due to numbers but at what cost!!

I can see that in the distant future we will be subject to India and China, our time has come and gone.

Now that's about the funniest thing I have read in a long time.
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Ditto, Bill !

PS - I did, at one time, work for the NHS, in London. No more to be said.

You must forgive him Bill, he "lives in shoebox in middle t'road", ( old Monty Python joke )

Puddle, I think you're in a muddle.

cheers, niteshift

It's Bush's fault.

Oh wait, what was the question?

Here's the answer:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8214085

Puddleglum: "I can only see a lot of bloodshed ahead. The poor will win of coarse due to numbers but at what cost!!"

The poor never win. The powerful always prevail. The meek may inherit the world after the Savior returns. But until He does, those with money and power will rule.

I love tea and I don't need a party to enjoy it.

And Al Gore started all this trouble when he invented the internet.

That's all the politics I have in my body and mind.

Vote for Pat Paulsen.

Rick

I think decent, ordinary people in this country are sick and tired of being told that decent, ordinary people are sick and tired. I'm certainly not....and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

Well EXCEEUUUSE me!

Dear Dan, tell that to the French aristocrats and our lovely King Charles 1st, oops is that his head rolling down the road ...

Well,
The Liberals and Democrats want to run the country but they want the Conservatives and Republicians to pay for it.

However: Somebody has to make the Trains run on time. Hard working people do that. Flaky people ride the trains, when they can afford it.

Liberals do all right until they run out of other people's money.

Dear Niteshift, I'd reply but I have to get up before I go to bed and lick road clean wi' me tongue!!

I've been doing my best to stay out of this, but I'm weak. I hear a lot of people blaming the liberals for today's problems, but I don't see any true liberals in high ranking positions. Obama is carrying out the policies established during the Bush II regime. Despite popular opinion, Democrat does not necessarily equal liberal.

Don't blame me. I voted for Nader.

The problems and blame rest with both parties equally filled with incumbent crooks. Congress spends all the money and the money crashed down on us 4 years ago when Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (who at least had the common decency not to try to run again... he's got plenty of goodies waiting for him from all the 10's of Billions he helped loot from our treasury) took charge. But it wouldn't have mattered all that much. The Republicsan hsd been more slowly emptying our coffers before that. This is not a problem that can be solved with R's or D's. What we need is some honest morality and common sense. Union workers can't expect to retire at 55 or with 90% of their pay and benefits. They also can't be bailed out before bond holders (I'd still like to see the constituionality of all that questioned). We can pay small town board members 500K a year for part time work. We have to stop the influx of slavery into the US. Illegal labor from illegal immigrants often equates to slavery. When it doesn't, then the claim of job stealing is true. Either way it's wrong. And their educational and health care drain is more than we can afford. Sad but true. They now toss "trillion" around in spending bills as if it's sanity. It's not. Most of it went to cronies and crooks and when each job created 200-300K each for low level temporary jobs and we allow that to happen without demanding the resignation of anyone involved in that legislation we've lost our collective minds. Can we all agree that passing ANY bill without reading it is criminal? Who really supports or tolerates that from either side?

Obama has turned into an extremely partisan socialist who has surrounded himself with communists and those who admire that ideology and is setting back race relations decades on purpose. I hadn't thought about someone's race in any context most of my life, but not we have a president and his evil minions call everyone who disagree's with his radical agenda. He's suggested limiting free speech he disagree's with and done all he can to divide our country the most it's been since the civil war.

For all the liberals and D's who are angry with the above, stand down. The R's have shown zero alternative leadership to solve problems. Though they've had little ways to stop things, real leaders would still find a way to be heard and included. And when they take back the house, I don't expect many solutions but rather a 2 year anti-Obama campaign while Obama continues the campaign he's never stopped running.

The Tea Party has put fear into both parties. They want to keep the equal division of the US left versus right so either side always has the same folks in power and trade a handful of seats each election. If a decent tea party candidate runs for President it will simple assure Obama's re-election. I bet the Dems fun a run by indie right wing candidates like the libertarians as well to make sure the vote on the right is split. All we can hope for is continued anti incumbent mood in both parties. The biggest hope for all of us is to get rid of as many professional politicians as possible. I'd also ban all lobbyists from any private contact with our reps. All lobbyist meetings and all other types of meetings other than national security issues should be videotaped and broadcast to the public in real time. Those reps are doing OUR business... we should have a right to be in on the meetings.

Shall I go on? = )

Spin it any way you want but the blame for everything in this world rests with the people who wield all the power....THE RICH.
Since man first walked on this earth the greedy and powerful have always had it all their own way at the expense of others.
I have heard many rich and powerful people BLAME the lazy workers and scroungers for all the troubles.....sadly some misguided ordinary people.....pawns.... actually respect and admire this smokescreen used by these powerful crooks and evil doers.
When ordinary people are gullible enough to say thank you to people who have just robbed them....there is only one response.....they deserve all they get....
Until people wake up and smell the tea or coffee we ARE ALL DOOMED.
We are all equal......My ASS.
Even in law some are more equal than others......Lots of money and a clever lawyer can get you off with murder.
As one clever pundit said after the OJ Simpson trial...."America has the best legal system money can buy"
I am not bashing America just stating that Capitalism is evil and is the root of all evil.

....Who is doing as well as two years ago?...

To answer one of Ben's original questions... Umm, I am! AND!! I'm getting handsomer and handsomer every day..But I don't like to gloat.

Midnite

Well Big Jim,
I'm not sure what Capitolisim is. But if it is those making the Computers, Microphones, Audio Systems, Music Software, Speakers, etc, that you use, sure I say Hang em! No doubt the world will be better off without em. Off with their heads!

Ha!!!!
So it's the Chinese that are causing all the problems.

Did you notice I'm staying out of this.lol

"The poor never win. The powerful always prevail. The meek may inherit the world after the Savior returns. But until He does, those with money and power will rule."

In the short term this is true but the poor will win in the end, all the freedoms we enjoy were paid with the blood of poor people who refused to accept what ever conditions were laid upon them by people who would control them. We are no longer the property of these people to do as they want with, we may not be completely free of slavery but we have more rights and dignity than any of our ancestors ever had.

The poor always win, if they didn't we would still all be slaves and those with power and money are not strong: mostly they are weak individuals, cruel and ruthless and rule by fear, not the kind of people that I have any respect for.

Equality may be an ideal to be worked towards but it is infinitely more desirable than "us and them" unless of coarse you are them!! The poor have nothing to lose and everything to gain from destroying capitalism, the rich will fight to keep the power and wealth they have, the rich need the poor where-as the poor do not need the rich, the poor are poor because of the rich.

You ask any poor man if he would like to be richer, freer and have more control over his own life and he will always answer yes ... but even if you give him a gun and say he must fight for it, most will accept their lot and not fight ... untill things are so bad that they have very little choice about it.

I just think it is heading towards the situation where people are getting more inclined to demonstrate, riot and resort to violence against the authorities.

Great post, Polly.
It feels to me like the vast majority take freedom for granted... we've forgotten what oppression is like save for the IRS.

None of us -- in general -- truly understand what real hunger and starvation is like -- meaning the absolute famine in Germany and many other countries during and right after WWII where there IS NO FOOD to be had, period.

We do have homeless and many many poor who are not cared for well by our society... but there is food on every corner, crops in every field and we've prospered & gotten fat on it.

Which tends to lead to forgetting "the captivity of our fathers" or, where we came from, what our ancestors and Founding Fathers did to get us to this point and make us a great nation.

I still believe in the Constitution. The actual document. Not the mess Congress has been making out of it for decades.

Linda


PS Just stop making the 18 yr old's dinner plate :-) then THEY get to say "WTF!" and figure it out. And you get to charge rent. LOL
(what do I know, my adult kids keep coming home or don't leave...)

The problem with political arguments is that people mistake their beliefs for facts. By most polls, 20 percent of all Americans believe President Obama is a Muslim and no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.

You might as well argue politics with the wall.

Well,
Obama might be a Muslum for all I know. What's that got to do with the Price of Tea in China? There are lots of poor people in China also but they are making progress. And, as the lady says up above, there are no people starving here in America. If there were, you would hear about it from every Liberal Rag that is Published. Even the poor have Air Conditioning, Color T.V.'s and New cars. I'm probably Preaching to the Choir here.

Ray...."There are no poor in America" I cannot believe you said that....There are people dying from poverty and the effects it brings every day......people die because they cannot work or afford treatment because of their medical conditions.....whilst others have so much wealth they cannot possibly spend it. I am not against manufacturing any of the products you mention...BUT I am sickened at the huge profits made the way joe public is treated and the way wealth and power is distributed so unevenly.

Thanks a lot I often feel alone on here!!

Bill:
If someone filibustered a bill in 2005 or 2006, it would have been the Republicans. They controlled the Senate until the 2007 session -- they lost in the midterms in 2006.
But that's the moot point. Fannie and Freddie are in the dire shape they are because of incompetent/illegal accounting and the fact that they, like so many others, INVESTED in mortgage-backed securities that were built on subprime loans and became the notorious "toxic assets."
But Fannie and Freddie didn't make subprime loans -- the loans to people who couldn't afford mortgages, etc. The laws that they operated under didn't allow it.
Brian: Do you have any specific examples of all the things you say Obama is doing -- surrounding himself with communists and dividing the country by race, etc?

Nu-no, I didn't say there are no poor in America.... I said as a whole, as a society collectively we do not comprehend what it means to starve because there is literally NOTHING ANYWHERE to be had.

Yes: people are in desperate circumstances all over the nation, without healthcare, without ability to treat their conditions, with mental illness, with all sorts of disability.

I also believe (personally) that when societies fail to take care of these issues and the rich who can afford to give back, don't care or donate or work to help it, the society is going downhill fast. You can look up this trend historically: when empires have failed and crashed the non-concern for relieving poverty is one of the common denominators.

That all said, the vast majority of women in the entire continent of Africa have no access to modern feminine hygiene OR the resources to dispose of such in any sanitary way.

All the wealth in the world.... All the technology of the internet.... and there is a _continent_ of women washing out rags. With not much sanitary soap for it either.

Sorry to be graphic. But there are many many third-world countries who don't even have access to paper, much less computers. Never mind hospitals or cancer treatments.

We really, honestly, in the USA do not generally understand how blessed we are. How privileged. We take so much for granted. And we sit on our tails and pretty much do nothing but complain about how things are without getting out of our seats (or clicking donate buttons) to do anything about it.

Linda

Scott - your couch potato line was great. Reminded me of the people in "Wall-E." How far away are we?? ;-p

Big Jim,
I didn't say there were no poor people here in America. I said even the poor have Air Conditioning, Color T.V. Sets and New cars.
You talk about how the Wealth is uneven in it's distrubition. You don't quite have a handle on it. We have a 13.5 Trillion Dollar Debt to prove there is plenty of "Wealth" Distrubtion.

By the way, when my Ancesters came to the New World, before the Revolution by the way, there was no big social network to catch them if they failed. They just had to suck it up and try harder. So your comment about un even wealth distrubtion holds no water with me. I'm still about personal responsibility.

Ain't this fun!