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#827629 06/28/10 01:20 AM
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what is the best way to getting a song to an artist? Perhaps a particular artist. I've tried the Taxi and services like that before. Is there any other way? I know it will not be easy but there has to be another way right?

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Brandon,

Outside of writing with the artist, their producer or becoming part of that artist's inner circle, there really aren't a lot of ways. With the advent of downloading that took a majority of money out of the industry, in addition to putting so many people INTO the industry, it has changed the equation in music.

In addition now, most artists ARE writers, as have been in rock music for about fifty years. In Nashville, they are signed as writers before they are signed as artists. With companies investing the amount of money now into artists and diminishing returns, they are HAVING to write on everything. Record companies, who are usually the bank, financing projects, are also being included on revenue streams of merchandise and touring as well. higher costs of doing business. It is called the "360 degree" deal. That mostly came out of American Idol, and is now the industry standard.

Artists now are building fan base FIRST, before companies even consider them, which is why so many artists come out of reality television. So that means that they are going to record the songs they write first long before they consider anything else.

There are many services, many listed here and other places that pitch songs to the industry with varying results. Some of them work well in television and movies. But for artists, particularly in a place like Nashville, where I live and work, they are not going to take outside songs over those of their own, their friends and relationships, the companies that sign their checks, and the tight circle of hit writers that deliver constant money making songs. Those are the circles we all have to find ways into and that is not done by remote control.

Nashville is really a last venue. Rock, pop, blues, soul, rap, hip hop, alternative, etc. were all "self contained' years ago.

So looking very closely in your own areas for artists that might become the "next big thing". trying to build internet relationships, and constantly co-writing, are pretty much the last game in town. Also, a big thing in today's market is where the writer does their own You Tube video on a song and promoting themselves and their music that way.

A song has never done a radio tour, or interview. So finding artists BEFORE they are out of reach is really where the game is now.

MAB

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So it's easier to pitch an artist than a song?

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Look on their website for contact information and send them an email. Some answer, some don't.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


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Brandon,


Nothing is easy. Everyone is still trying to pitch every way they can. Colin is quite correct, sending an e-mail to a manager, publishing company, artist, is worth a shot in the dark. The closer you get to the source, the better you are. But the sources have purposly gotten farther away and more "filters" in between.

An artist, or writer, is about a three year journey from the time they start getting serious attention to actually having any sort of release. What that means is since it takes five to ten years to build skills and relationships nessasary to be in a position to have someone in power hear them, it is another three years in professional development.

Even reality television shows take the months of the season they are taped to get out there. And that is after a lengthy audition process, so you are looking at over a year to get through it then another several months to get out there. No one sits still during that time. Since record companies are MUCH more interested in an artist who has substantial writing catalogue preferably with established hit writers, they are spending weeks and months writing their own material, meeting with other writers, gathering huge catalogue, doing demos. And that is the "fast track."

With most artists, there are years and years of building fan base, performing on everything imaginable, every venue, doing 'viral marketing" on social networks, My Space, You Tube, etc. so they are writing songs also. Unknown artists are not going to be able to get access to hit songs, so they have to develop on their own. One of the primary ways they do that is with unknown writer's songs or writing on their own. That is everyone's window.

Every artist you see out there were "nobodies" not long before. They don't get hit songs yet.So if you had been writing with them before they started getting attention, if you had been a supporter of that artist, you are going to have better luck with that artist. But artistic egos can be very difficult to deal with. As I said, nothing is easy.

Once a writer or artist is signed, they are pretty much isolated from the "general public." Again, they are being placed with hit writers, learning the ropes. When money is being invested in you, you are expected to repay that money. That is done through the various income streams you provide.

It was recently said by artist Marc Cohn, that "live shows were used to promote recordings. Now recordings are used to promote live shows." Recordings are now more often given as an "afterthought", freebies to bring people to a web site, a special event or concert. The artist makes their money on merchandise and touring.

And people say "It all begins with a song." That is true, but if the song makes no money, or very little money, the artist would rather make that themselves than share that with an unrelated songwriter. Thus they write it themselves, or with a tight inner circle that have developed along with them.

There is a hotly contested debate about that since many artists are not the best writers, or vice versa. ACtually most artists and songs are not nessasarily good or bad, just average. Writing hit songs are a very difficult subjective gamble and no one knows for sure what is going to connect with an audience which is why there are always hits on the radio most people can't seem to figure out why they are there.

My contention is that it has always been that way, we just see more now because of the internet and how much communtication and music surrounds us all the time.

And now, we have to accept that for what it is and do our best to be a part of artist's ground floor. I have lived in Nashville for over twenty years and it was that way before I got here, so this is really nothing new. And in the other music centers, it was that way even farther before that. Most writers who are just finding this out via the Internet are actually coming very late to the party. The key is how to get invited into the party.

MAB

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Thanks so much yall

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I find if you attach a twenty dollar bill to your demo it gets more attention. grin

No, don't do that Brandon!

I did that once (many years ago). The song was listened to and reviewed - and the twenty dollar bill returned. I'm afraid today the greenback wouldn't be returned.

Using the phone can still get you permission to submit songs to publishers, but you'll have to make a lot of phone calls.

Dating the publisher's receptionist can be rewarding as well. Especially if she's a knock-out.

Keep a sense of humor, it will get you through all the frustration. grin

Good luck, John smile

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just wondering how in the world you can actually get in touch with managers and publishers and such. They are humans there has to be a way.

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Brandon,

With some publishers you can actually submit music to them online from their website, and you can co-write yourself to publisher contacts, but otherwise you pay 'access-to-market' fees.

These fees are for tip sheets, pitcing services and songpluggers. Tip sheets are for everyone, pitching services mostly for newcomers, and songpluggers for songwriters with a track record and money to spend.

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Brandon,

You can get in touch with them.They all have offices and e-mails. But they are all going to tell you "No unsolicited material." there is a reason for this. they don't know you. You haven't done the required time to get known. You haven't written with people they know. It is not who YOU know. It is who Knows YOU and how they know you.

A manager, publisher, agent, start every day going through their own catalogues. Songs they have paid for through the writers, the demos hiring song pluggers, going through hundreds of thousands of dollars to be in this business. They are promoting their own artists who HAVE done the time and walked the walk and talked the talk.

The average artist/writer is someone they have known for years. In the case of artists, they have met and know their families.They have spent vactions and holidays together. Where it is a five-ten year trip for most writers and artists,it is 20-25 years for an industry person, record execs, publisher, song pluggers, producer, musician, to earn their ways in. So you don't just go taking outside stuff. You have developed your own, the ways you like it, what you are looking for.

You spend thousands of dollars to be a part of charities so you have access to artists. You do celebrity golf tournaments, you go to Austin, South By Southwest so you can hang out socially with other managers, other artists, other publishers. You go to Key West for songwriter's festivals. You participate in the CMA awards, you serve on committees.

Artists and writers clean the offices, buses to work their way up. They help take care of kids. They write with hundreds of people that go no where, songs that do nothing.

This is all behind the scenes on the songs. The songs are 15% of it. The rest is all in the networking, the personal touch, making and being friends.

That is what can't be taught and what writers always miss. That has to be experienced.

Think about yourself for a second. You have your songs right? You have things you have written, demos you have paid for, joining TAXI, doing other services, wasting a lot of time and money right? You work one, two or other jobs just to be able to do those demos and join those other services. Deal with rejection all the time, people saying "No" or "Don't call us, we'll call you. Am I right?

How many other people's music would you put AHEAD of your own if you only had one chance to play a song for an industry person?

Now you see what it is like.

MAB

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Your solution is Blazetrak. We GUARANTEE you direct access to the person of your choice and they will respond via video to prove it.

www.blazetrak.com

Ron

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Mark Barnette,

You are smart guy! Read thru a couple of your posts and you give great insight.

Great Job.

Ron

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Originally Posted by Blazetrak
Your solution is Blazetrak. We GUARANTEE you direct access to the person of your choice and they will respond via video to prove it.

www.blazetrak.com

Ron


Will Barbra Streisand respond via video to me? How much would that set me back Ron?

John

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Access is fine. How does that get you past the song they wrote when the artist got dumped by his girlfriend? Access doesn't mean much then.

Everybody who is going this "pitch service route" leave out all those elements. It is not just about the SONGS! Everyone has SONGS! There are 30 million SONGS on the Internet.You are having to write songs that mean something to the people doing them. That is nearly impossible to do without being there.

The other thing is that music is done by committee. I know of dozens of people, one a very established star, And three other's one a duo, who is number four on the charts right now, the other is a new male artist at number 60, who have to fight to get their OWN songs on their OWN records.

So it is about a number of issues number ONE being emotional, number two being political.

It is the primary reason that fee for pitch services almost always fail and have not pulled enormous hits on anything.

MAB

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Hummn,
I just thought of an idea! Try a direct bribe. I haven't walked into a Publisher's Office in quite some time but it is said to be good to the receptionist because next time she may be the president of the company. Try taking a dozen roses and a bottle of wine. It might work!


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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Blazetrak
Your solution is Blazetrak. We GUARANTEE you direct access to the person of your choice and they will respond via video to prove it.

www.blazetrak.com

Ron


Will Barbra Streisand respond via video to me? How much would that set me back Ron?

John


Unfortunately Barbera Streisand currently isnt available. But if and when when she becomes available, she will set her own price just like all of the other pros.

Thanks, Ron

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Access is fine. How does that get you past the song they wrote when the artist got dumped by his girlfriend? Access doesn't mean much then.

Everybody who is going this "pitch service route" leave out all those elements. It is not just about the SONGS! Everyone has SONGS! There are 30 million SONGS on the Internet.You are having to write songs that mean something to the people doing them. That is nearly impossible to do without being there.

The other thing is that music is done by committee. I know of dozens of people, one a very established star, And three other's one a duo, who is number four on the charts right now, the other is a new male artist at number 60, who have to fight to get their OWN songs on their OWN records.

So it is about a number of issues number ONE being emotional, number two being political.

It is the primary reason that fee for pitch services almost always fail and have not pulled enormous hits on anything.

MAB


Its not about submitting the HIT song, its about showcasing your ability to present quality material so you can be used as a resource later down the line. You just spoke about how "the relationship" is the most important aspect. Well you cannot develop a relationship without first gaining access to the individuals. This is why Blazetrak works. We give you an avenue to get DIRECTLY in touch with someone that you cant just call up, email, run into in the street and expect to get any type of response. We give you the chance to showcase your talent to them to prove you can present quality work. There lies the value, in addtions to any advice and direction you also receive from the person.

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Question? If a major artist, producer, label, songwriter, etc., asked you to fly across the country and you have 10 minutes to impress them, I willing to bet 99% of people who are serious and more importantly CONFIDENT in thier work, would purchase that $500 ticket in a heartbeat...and that doesnt even include all of the other expenses that come with travel. People get SO caught in the words "Fee" and "paying for access", but the reality is you pay for it indirectly everyday anyway. You pay more for front row seats and backstage passes, you pay extra for VIP tickets to events to rub elbows with the VIPS, u purchase plane tickest to fly to Nashville, LA, NY with the HOPE of nailing a meeting with someone important (some people just pack up and move all together chasing a dream). Its all about perception.

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Ray,

I actually can tell you a story about that. I had been in Nashville for a few years and I started breaking into writing with hit writers. The way that works is you kind of meet a ton of people, play on shows with them, hang out and then one day, you get invited into writing with the "Big boys" if they like you. Jim McBride (Way Down Yonder on the Chattahoochie) was my first. That led to another, then another, and another (hopefully) and your circle just kind of grows until you suck and they kick you out. But they were pretty good to me. And a lot of people asked me to write because I had the blues soulful country voice that was very hot at the time.I had them all fooled that I was any good. LOL!

One day I was at one of the top publishing companies writing with a pretty hot property at the time. My co-write was with a guy who had had several top tens and two number ones, whom I had been friends a long time but this was the first time we had written.

During a lull in what we were doing, over the intercom came a message "The UPS man is here." My friend said "Wanna see something funny?" I said, "sure" so we went to the front reception desk. In the lobby there was a pretty good sized box on the main desk. As we stood there, there was a rumbling coming toward us. All of a sudden, dozens of women were there. These were secrataries and assistants from the various offices. Probably ten women, various ages, all gathered round.

They opened up the box and inside was a big basket. There were liquor bottles, candies, little gifts of all kinds kind of like a Christmas stocking. In the middle of the box in this kind of easter egg wrappings, there was a black folder with a guy's name emblossed on it. It was obviously a publicity package for an artist, the kind we all use but this one was REALLY fancy. As well as a lot of the liquors and stuff in the package. They really spent a few bucks on this, and was surprised there wasn't some money in it.

Faster than the vultures cleaning a body on the Sarengetti, the women swept in. They took the bottles, the candy, the trinkets, little jewelry, everything. Then the main receptionist, took the contents of the folder without even looking at them, dumped them in the garbage. She took the CD box, popped out the CD, took the guy's labels, CD information inserts, everything, dumped it in the garbage, and tossed the CD box itself into another box that had several other empty CD boxes and cassette boxes.This had happened before.

I asked my friend, "Don't you guys even listen to this?" He turned to walk back and said "Nah. Why, you want to hear it?"
I said yeah, and he went and grabbed the CD. I grabbed the guy's information out of the garbage and took it back to our writer's room.

Obviously this guy had a good package, with all kinds of press, fancy sheets, bios, glossy pictures (Color and black and white) and he looked like the usual "Garth Brook's wanna be", Cowboy hat and pressed shirt and jeans, with 'cowboy hat pose number 8 number sixteen and 21' all done by a very good photographer.

His discography told of winning contests, how the hometown loved him and all the stuff he had done at the county fair. I had to admit it looked pretty good and pretty verbose. Sounded like some of the crap I made up about myself.

As we got to the room and I was reading, my friend sat at his desk and without taking his eyes off of me, put the CD in the CD player. It went in and my friend never stopped looking at me with this little grin. The first song started and sounded like a really good Nashville demo. Then it happened. He started singing and I found out why he had such a slick package. He had NO talent.

He sang both flat and sharp with equal dexterity, bending notes that shouldn't be bent, all on songs that should not have ever made it through to full demos. Cliched' terrible rhymes, "Heart and apart's, true and blues, eye's and realizes" all over the place. It was terrible. After a verse and chorus, my friend hit the "next button. Again he never stopped looking at me. The next song was just as bad. "NEXT", the next one was EVEN worse. After another verse and chorus I begged him to stop."Want another?" he asked like a Marine Drill instructor. I had had enough.

The lesson was clear. The more desperate people seem, the more bribe they do, the slicker the package, the worse the material.

I have seen this repeated over and over here. The louder someone talks about themselves, the less they have on the ball. People who do this for real don't have to brag or force their way in. Their material does it for them. This is a small town and everyone pretty much knows everyone. If you are good, it gets around. You get referalls. People introduce you and your music to others. You don't have to hype.

I have heard of people bribing Valet parking attendants, (actually saw a guy get fired for doing that) secrataries, assistants, musicians, etc. I have seen several people lose their jobs over things like that. Gherming (the art of attaching yourself into a person you really don't know, trying to give out CD's, tapes, etc.) has reached epidimic proportions, with lawsuits going rampant. "I gave you my song, "I love you baby" and you have a song that says "I love you baby." You stole my song. I am the first to say "I love you baby' in a song.

This really happens and is one of the main reason no one will listen to your music until they know you. Nobody wants to be sued. Thank the trial lawyers of the world for screwing up your career.


So yeah, Bribery has been tried. Another Rube Goldberg device that failed. I wish people would spend time meeting real people, learning their craft and doing it the right way. There are a lot of ways that are the wrong way.

MAB

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette


It is the primary reason that fee for pitch services almost always fail and have not pulled enormous hits on anything.

MAB


Good thing Blazetrak is not like the "Normal" fee to pitch scenario. Its one thing to pay a fee to have someone else pitch on your behalf (and who knows if they even have the actual ability to get it done). Its a whole new ballgame when we put you DIRECLY in front of the person u choose, and you pitch yourself....time to sink or swim.

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Blazetrack,

I am sure you have the best of intentions. the problem is not as much access (Which actually is a BIG problem) but it is one of emotion and personal relationships. That is what no songs like this do. They don't take into account the personal aspect of this business. The industry doesn't look for songs. They look for something they don't have that blows their stuff away.

But those songs never come through channels like these. The people who write those songs get known by other methods. I am sure you mean well and wish you well but in my years of being here, I have never seen any of these services work like people think they will. It just takes the relationship factor out of it and the way this town is set up is something that just doesn't happen.

People who have worked their way into the industry simply don't lay there and let people waltz in and take their jobs, their lively hood or the security of their families.

I wish you well if that is where you choose to go. It's one of those things, I always have to see to believe and even if it works once, that doesn't really prove the process. There are always exceptions. This is one I have just seen fail too many times.

MAB

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MAB,

That is a story that is repeated in offices all over the world. My good friend Paul Worley (also in Nashville as I am sure you know) can tell u a few. That story actually proves the Blazetrak model to a T. That guy went thru all that, and the only reason it received one ounce of attention was because you were a nice guy. We gurantee it gets the attention. Another key word in the equation is talent. 8/10 times the talent is not up to par, so the time to even listen is not worth it...in enters the fee, so even if there is no talent, it is still worth the time, and the person who sent it in gets a video back with advice, directions, instuction from who they sent it to. Did anyone call that guy and explain to him why you didnt like him, or what he needs to do to improve? I doubt it. Do you think he would have appreciated it if someone had, and would he have thought that it was all worth it because of the fact that he actually got something in retunr? Of course you do! Well this is Blazetrak.

Last but not not least, and this is specifically for your individual situation. How would would have been able to meet those people and make those connections to even be in that office on that day if you did not live in Nashville? Point being...everyone doesnt live in Nashville. How can some in Idaho, or Maine, or Nebraska, or China, or Iceland, or Pluto, or Mars have those opportunities??? Well Paul Worley is on Blazetrak for $150, and you dont even need to to live, move or fly to Nashville to get his undivided attention. Having the talent is up to you.

And why does eveyone call me Ray?? My name is RON. LOL

RON
RON
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You are still missing the point MAB. Its not about submitting the "IT SONG" that will sell 100 million. You cannot start the types of relationships you speak of without first having access to the people in the first place. You live in Nashville, so its easier for you. There are billions of people in this world who dont live in Nashvile, but have more talent in thier pinky finger then you and I have combined. What is there their solution to get in front of Paul Worley? Should it just be tough luck you dont live in Nash, NY, or LA? What should they do?

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Marc,
That is an intresting Post. However I was only talking about pitching songs, not trying to get a Record Deal. On that note I recommend an Aspiring Artist get a track record playing and booking places and honing his craft. Boy some of those guys will do anything to get noticed. I am way too cheap to spend that kind of money! I may come to Nashville next year and visit my PRO (BMI) and search out some appointments. Keep on Truckin'.


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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Marc,
That is an intresting Post. However I was only talking about pitching songs, not trying to get a Record Deal. On that note I recommend an Aspiring Artist get a track record playing and booking places and honing his craft. Boy some of those guys will do anything to get noticed. I am way too cheap to spend that kind of money! I may come to Nashville next year and visit my PRO (BMI) and search out some appointments. Keep on Truckin'.


How much is that flight+hotel+food+rental car+gas+missed wages gonna cost you to "search out some appointments" that you may or may not even get? Here is a guaranteed appointment for you at a fraction of the cost: www.blazetrak.com/paulworley

Thank me Later - Drake

Ron

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Ron,

I do know Paul. I like Paul. We have been friends for many years. I am not saying anything negative about your company. If it works fine. But I would have never written with those hit writers, never known them if I hadn't been here. and the real connections are not made by remote control. Ask Paul if he'll take one of your songs over his own that he believes in. Or any of the writes he has been friends with for his 30 years in this town.

People who live outside the town essentially say something incredibly offensive to those of us here. It says "I don't care about what you have done in your life. I don't care that you had to make your breaks. I don't care that you have been rejected, you have been pushed around. I don't want to have to do the same things you and everyone that has ever done anything in this town has had to do. I don't care about your relationships. here is my $150.

Put me over the writers you have spent $50,000 a year on developing for 4 years. Put me ahead of your friends and your own family members. Hey, I've got A HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS. My song is good and my mother loves me. So I need to be on the radio. "Hey Taylor Swift, put my song on your CD instead of the one that you wrote about the guy who was jerk to you. Because mine is about a girl who got dumped by a guy and he was a jerk to her. See how different they are? Your's is about the same subject but I like mine better. So you need to record that."

Ron, I don't doubt your veracity or honesty. I really don't. I am sure you mean well and have something going on. I hope it works. But I have my doubts because of the way this town is set up. If you look at the Music Row area, it is a bunch of business and small houses all clumped together just like a neighborhood.
Because that is what it is.

We all know each other. We all interact with each other. We share in each other's hopes and dreams, victories and defeats.

Look on any CD out there. Who are the writers? About 80% of the time it is the artist and their friends, relations, hit writers and people from well known publishing companies. It is designed that way for a reason. It allows the writers to know each other and grow together.

This is the major leagues. You can have a walk on try out for the New York Yankees in Fla. every year. But if you are a sandlot church softball league player, you are not going far. And my guess is that are the songs you are going to get.

The main problem you have is that the songs you are going to get are not going to be in the same league as the Jeffery Steele's and Craig Wisemans. I can almost guarantee you that. Because the people who write at that level, don't need services like yours because they move to the source which is a music center. Or they develop the nessasary contacts to do it.

I work with writers mostly from outside Nashville. They focus their time and do it the right way. Companies employ them and it is more than just one song. One song does not build relationships. One song does not foster friendships. One song is just that. One song.

And that is what we do every day here.

So good luck. I just have my doubts. Let's just say I know this game pretty well.

MAB

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Dang, I am going to Nashville to meet MAB and his gang and over three days I am going to be listening, learning, co-writing and absorbing what Nashville has going on. It will probably cost me a little dinero when it is all said and done. Just think, for only $150 I could have a video from Paul Worley telling me I am not ready. (oops, I could have had a v-8).

All kidding aside, The success of blazetrak is only going to work if you find some real talent. If Paul gets 20 submissions that are all lousy, he will lose interest -- even at $150 a pop (unless, of course he needs the money, then it will just devolve into a scam).

Good luck, I think you have a business model that just isn't going to work -- except maybe for you and the "professionals" that are getting paid.

Kevin


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Thanks MAB and its cool to disagree, I actually enjoy the debate as it helps me to find out the concerns of folks like you so we can try to address them. One last question:

If what you say is true about the music community in Nashville, Music Row (of which I have been on a few times), then why would a guy like Paul Worley (who I think is safe to say is one of the big wigs), or Wally Wilson, or Don Cook, or Steve Fishell be on Blazetrak by their own will? Surely its not for $150(which they share with Blazetrak). Paul's music has sold over a BILLION dollars over his career. So why would he open himself up in this manner if he truly wasnt trying to help some new kid make it in this tough biz?

And in regards to the talent not being good enough, that is not a blazetrak issue and we dont have control ovet that. Our goal is to give everyone a chance, and if you are not good enough, at the very least you get advice from someone you admire who has proven to be succesfull in the major leagues.

Ron

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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Dang, I am going to Nashville to meet MAB and his gang and over three days I am going to be listening, learning, co-writing and absorbing what Nashville has going on. It will probably cost me a little dinero when it is all said and done. Just think, for only $150 I could have a video from Paul Worley telling me I am not ready. (oops, I could have had a v-8).

All kidding aside, The success of blazetrak is only going to work if you find some real talent. If Paul gets 20 submissions that are all lousy, he will lose interest -- even at $150 a pop (unless, of course he needs the money, then it will just devolve into a scam).

Good luck, I think you have a business model that just isn't going to work -- except maybe for you and the "professionals" that are getting paid.

Kevin


Clearly you havent been on the site to see the MANY success stories that have happended already. People from 136 countries (in 6 months of operations) have submitted on Blazetrak, who otherwise would never even dream of having the caliber of people on our site even know they exsist. So explain to me again how our Biz model doesnt work.

If Paul finds 1 out of those 20, that happens to become the next Taylor Swift, do you think its worth it for him? And if you get a video from Paul that says you are not ready, then maybe you should listen to him and find a day job...He kinda knows what he is talking bout.

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I didn't see your "success stories" thing the first time in -- you need to highlight that in big and bold letters. Right now I see six "success stories" in six months -- that's pretty decent. Are they all in the hip-hop genre?

Look, if it works, it works -- I am not against someone making it. I just know that 99.9% of the other folks will just have blown their money.

Kevin


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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
I didn't see your "success stories" thing the first time in -- you need to highlight that in big and bold letters. Right now I see six "success stories" in six months -- that's pretty decent. Are they all in the hip-hop genre?

Look, if it works, it works -- I am not against someone making it. I just know that 99.9% of the other folks will just have blown their money.

Kevin


Just like 99.9% of the world will never make it in music, or professional sports, or any other "High end entertainment" type of career. Only now with Blazetrak, that wont because of a lack of access or opportunity. At then end of the day, you still have to have the confidence to submit (which many people just dont have) and the talent to back it up (which again, many people just dont have it) just like any other profession.

Most have been in hip-hop so far because that where the bulk of submissions are coming in. We have few in Country, Gospel and Pop/R&B that we are following to see what comes out of it.

Ron

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Ron,

I don't know why Paul is doing it. I am sure he has his reasons. Most people in this day and age have dozens of services they are involved in. It is irrelevant to me. I am not interested in these one time things. To me that is standing on an interstate overpass, throwing darts at cars passing under, while blindfolded. Will you hit something? Possibly. Will it stick? Doubtful.

My approach and deal is much different. I educate people on the craft and practical application of Nashville. I help them sharpen their focus and write better songs. I introduce them to friends of mine, as friends instead of just writers. Actually one of the people that has spoken to groups of mine is Paul Worley. We are all friends here. And there are constant people coming here all with the same goal, to work within the overall world of Nashville.

The music industry is not a short sprint. It is a long distance marathon relay race that takes a long time to really do.

I don't dissagree with what you are doing. It makes no difference to me one way or another. We have differing philosophys on how to approach this. Mine has been building for about 20 years. Others have different approaches. There are a lot of people out there seeking help. If you help someone so be it.

Just not for what I do or the people who seek me out.

MAB

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Ron,

I don't know why Paul is doing it. I am sure he has his reasons. Most people in this day and age have dozens of services they are involved in. It is irrelevant to me. I am not interested in these one time things. To me that is standing on an interstate overpass, throwing darts at cars passing under, while blindfolded. Will you hit something? Possibly. Will it stick? Doubtful.

My approach and deal is much different. I educate people on the craft and practical application of Nashville. I help them sharpen their focus and write better songs. I introduce them to friends of mine, as friends instead of just writers. Actually one of the people that has spoken to groups of mine is Paul Worley. We are all friends here. And there are constant people coming here all with the same goal, to work within the overall world of Nashville.

The music industry is not a short sprint. It is a long distance marathon relay race that takes a long time to really do.

I don't dissagree with what you are doing. It makes no difference to me one way or another. We have differing philosophys on how to approach this. Mine has been building for about 20 years. Others have different approaches. There are a lot of people out there seeking help. If you help someone so be it.

Just not for what I do or the people who seek me out.

MAB


Blazetrak is going to be DAY 1 in that 20 year relationship building process for a lot of people. And I bet if Blazetrak were around when you were on Day 1 and you didnt know a soul in the music industry and had no access to anyone (like the guy who started this thread), you would appreciate what we are trying to do a little differently. Its a lot different when you are already sitting on the side with the green grass..maybe you forgot what it took to get there.

One day, if we get permission, I will post some of the emails and messages we get from people around the world who are almost in tears and so thankful that they were able to send their hard work (whether good or bad) to people they could only dream of ever reaching on any kind of personal level, and receiving a video back from that person, with advice, encouragement, step by step instructions...and sometimes a Job (true story), a production deal (true story), and invitation to the studio (true story), a one on one in person meeting (true story), an all expense paid trip to work with and record new songs (True story), a placement on a major artist (true story), a management deal (true story), a pub deal (true story).

For a very large % of the world, Blazetrak is really the only avenue that is available that guarantees direct access to people like this. If there is another cost effective way to accomplish this, I would love to hear about it.

Ron

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I used the search engine for several artists on Blazetrak. Didn't come up with one that's accepting, but each time the search comes up with 3-4 alternatives. After doing this through several searches it appears you only have 12 willing reviewing participants. Four of the 12 continue to appear after each new search.

Are these 12 the only ones available at the present time?

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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I used the search engine for several artists on Blazetrak. Didn't come up with one that's accepting, but each time the search comes up with 3-4 alternatives. After doing this through several searches it appears you only have 12 willing reviewing participants. Four of the 12 continue to appear after each new search.

Are these 12 the only ones available at the present time?

John smile


Actually we have close to 100 who are accepting submissions. keepin mind that we are a new company and it takes time to build the roster. You may want to search by opportunity using a keyword like SONGWRITER and you can see all od the pros's who have a songwriter request.

Thanks, Ron

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Ron.

First rule of this business is you should tread carefully on who you offend. I, like everyone who comes here knew no one in this town. I earned my reputation by long hard work and being who I said I was. That is my business sir, making newcomers to town feel welcome and showing them the ropes. I have earned my place at the table. You have not. You are new and are doing something that is an extension of every other similar service out there.

I do as much damage control from these exact services. People come to me because things like this do not work out. When you have earned your stripes in the business, that is fine. I will be happy to acknowledge your successes. I find nothing on your web site that leads me anywhere. I hear you quote people as many people do and ask questions as to "why would they do blah blah blah."

Earn what you do first then you can brag. So far I have seen nothing except the same conversation everyone who starts these businesses. And end up with the same results. Overpromising and underdelivering.You give off the impression that people put money into your slot machine, pull the lever and are off and running.

It is my contention that it is not. You have another service.Good for you. This business is built on relationships not promises. Talk is cheap, and when you have launched careers, achieved success and noteriety from your peers, you can talk all you want to.

Until then it is just another service attempting to do the same thing everyone else is. There are several million on the web and most of these pages are continually starting with the post "Do you know of these people..." And yes, they ALL are different, at least that is what they say.

The music business is comprised of a song, a delivery system, (artist) and developing fan base for those songs and artists. That doesn't change. Ever. And the new shiney coin claiming success doesn't change that fact.

Respectfully,

MAB

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MAB,

Not sure how I offended you but if I did I apologize, but I will respond to your post my friend. You keep saying this town as if the whole music business lives in a vaccum in Nashville. Yes Nashville is a music hotbed, but one doesnt have to slide down music row, and have family dinners, and play volleyball on holidays to be succesful in this business. Not once have you answered my question about the people who dont live in Nashville, or NY or LA, or even the United States, and what avenues they have to get in front of people like this. What do you suggest they do that is cost effective, AND can get the in front of a Paul Worley type. The poster asked for advice on what to do, what is your advice? I gave mine. Your path is NOT the holy grail to success, all it is your path, and that is all it will ever be YOURS.

Blazetrak was never made for you or intended for you to use. You dont need it. You can walk down Music Row, knock on a door and probably be let in with open arms. Newsflash! the majority of the world cannot do that. Everyone doesnt have your connections or relationships, or rolodex, but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt have a chance to be seen or heard if they have the talent...or even if they dont have the talent. If they are willing to pay a fee set by the pro and get some good solid advice that can help them get to the next level, then why not. We are offering THOSE people the opportunities they normally wouldnt have.

We promise one thing...Direct access to the person of their choice point blank. Customers will decide whether or not that access is worth a fee.

In closing, before you question who has "earned the right" to sit at the table, and "earned stripes", and whether or not this is new to me maybe you should ask and find out who you are talking to as well. I'll help you out. Feel free to read my short bio:

www.blazetrak.com/ronharrison

Then let me know if I have "earned" the right to sit at your table of distinquished men and women. Where is your bio?

Respectfully,

RH

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MAB,

So i decided to do my own research on you, and come to find out you are offering the EXACT same service as we are on your personal website:

http://www.marcalanbarnette.com/services.htm

“Have your songs objectively critiques for structure, lyrics, story and commercial viability. Simply send your song on a CD, cassette tape or mail an MP3 file along with matching lyric sheets. Please allow 3 weeks for feedback.”

Pricing
Per song - $25 each

You are critiquing songs for $25 per song, which by the way is MORE expensive then some of our Pros who are much more notable than you.

You have spent this whole discussion badmouthing this type of service and how useless it is and how the only way to make it in this business is to have family picnics that take 20 years to cultivate, and yet, you are doing the EXACT same thing yourself. How Ironic!

But lets look a little closer and let the public decide which service is ACTUALLY more useful to someone trying to advance their career. The MAB song critique OR Blazetrak.

So what kind of feedback do you actually give? Our Pros give video responses with advice, direction, do's and dont's, so the customers know it comes from them directly. What do you offer? A written report maybe..an email? Who types that up for you?

Do you have any opportunities associated with your service? Can u offer any kind of production/songwriting/management/publishing/placement deals? All of our Pros have that ability, AND are looking to do so if the talent is present.

Have you established any relationships with the people who use your service? Have you ever called any of them up to work together on a project or take them to a major label? Our Pros have communicated with customers on several occasions.

Do you have any success stories from anyone that has used your service? Any deals consummated? We have several of success stories in 6 months of operations.

I could go on and on about this and you, but I think I have proved my case.

If you would like to upgrade your current service offering to a more advanced, user-friendly system, feel free to send an email to info@blazetrak.com and you will go thru our vetting process as we determine whether or not you are suitable to become a Blazetrak Pro and IF you can actually offer some real value other then a song critique for $25

Respecfully,
RH

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Originally Posted by smoke&mirrorstrax
But lets look a little closer and let the public decide which service is ACTUALLY more useful to someone trying to advance their career. The MAB song critique OR Blazetrak.

So what kind of feedback do you actually give? Our Pros give video responses with advice, direction, do's and dont's, so the customers know it comes from them directly. What do you offer? A written report maybe..an email? Who types that up for you?

Do you have any opportunities associated with your service? Can u offer any kind of production/songwriting/management/publishing/placement deals? All of our Pros have that ability, AND are looking to do so if the talent is present.

Have you established any relationships with the people who use your service? Have you ever called any of them up to work together on a project or take them to a major label? Our Pros have communicated with customers on several occasions.

Do you have any success stories from anyone that has used your service? Any deals consummated? We have several of success stories in 6 months of operations.

I could go on and on about this and you, but I think I have proved my case.


The only thing you have proved is that you are NOT the one to be promoting your site to the internet public. You have just trashed a guy that gives tons and tons of free time to aspiring writers.

I'd like to wish you the best in your endeavors, but to me you come across like a jerk. Tearing down MAB does not build up YOUR business.

Kevin


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Hey Ron,

Im now used to being second after Kevin, LOL.

I don't know for sure what you have to offer, so I won't go into that.

I have used MAB's services, though. Just wanted to make clear that what MAB tells you when he critiques ONE of your songs changes your songwriting to the point that the very same publishers and producers who didn't pay much attention to you before begin to take you seriously right after you've started to listen to his advice.

And when you ask if he's got any success stories, just ask Frankie Ballard and Steel Magnolia what they think of MAB's mentoring.

Just to mention: thrashing Marc-Alan Barnette is not advisable when someone wants to succeed in the music business. You said you did some research. Doing MORE research would be nice.

Respectfully,
Yann Causeret


"Honey, I know, I know, I know times are changin' / It's time we all reach out 4 something new" (Prince)

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Yann and Kevin,

You are missing the entire point. I trashed no one. The point is he came on here trashing Blazetrak and the service as being useless and of no help when he offers the same service. Now dont you find something odd about that? I asked questions about his service then explained how WE do things in response to those same questions. I never said anything about the quality of his service OR his feedback. I have no idea...the point is he offers the same service that he just said is useless in the grand scheme of things.

I dont know if his feedback is useful or not, which is WHY i never commentented on that aspect of it. But he clearly stated how useless my service is having never even tried it. Why is the "FEE BASED" service we offer useless, but his is ok?


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Originally Posted by Blazetrak
Why is the "FEE BASED" service we offer useless, but his is ok?


I won't enter the discussion on the value of your service (again) Ron, but MAB is a guy that will put action before his words.

He may charge you 25$ for an evaluation, but before that Marc will correspond with you for no good reason, like you were right up there with him, and sometimes give you great advice for no charge at all! Like a true southern gentleman, I'd say.

I believe there's little question that newcomers have a hard time getting their music to pro's, but there's also no question that it's because the music doesn't cut it from those folks who are so new that they don't understand how the music business works. Point is, you may be able to provide access to professional ears, but that's basicly it.

It's really not true, except for major labels (in SOME countries), that it's impossible to get contacts in music business. I can name you the first 20 websites where you can submit material to reputable people for no charge at all, and have your music listened to, guaranteed! Writers learn about these when they have great songs, and involve themselves in communities where they get referrals.

What's a contact worth without great music? There's basically nothing wrong with having your song trashed if it comes unsolicited through snail mail. That practice works for the benefit of all, including writers with good enough songs IMO

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Ron,

if you trashed no one, then it's all good.

But what appears to me as a huge difference between your service and his: he promises very little, except that you'll write better songs and you'll understand better how the industry works.

Lots of people write songs and think that if only the right insiders could listen to their stuff they'd be one chance they'd fall on their knees and cry, God, this is the Messiah we've been looking everywhere for decades and he's gonna save all the music industry!

I'm just cautious about a service that doesn't clearly state from the very beginning that this is NOT going to happen EVER. This is a MYTH. Good things do happen in the course of TIME. By the time people are ready to submit over the bar material, everybody knows them in the business because they've worked for years in their antechamber.

That's my opinion, anyway. I'm always ready to hear challenging views, always provide for a good discussion : )
Yann

Last edited by yann; 06/29/10 06:33 PM.

"Honey, I know, I know, I know times are changin' / It's time we all reach out 4 something new" (Prince)

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Als Yann, the fact
Originally Posted by yann
Hey Ron,

I don't know for sure what you have to offer, so I won't go into that.

Yann Causeret


Yann, I appreciate the above statement. You dont know, so you didnt comment. Much respect. Unfortunately MAB did not do that, and you can read thru his posts to prove that. He stated how useless services like mine are and that careers cannot be developed that way, and its a waste of time and money. Well careers can be developed by putting up a youtube page these days...ask Justin Beiber. Then he turns around and offers the same service. Come on! So why is it not a waste of time and money to use his service? I dont know if it is or not (and I could care less) because I have never used it, so i didnt comment on the quality of it...just like u didnt comment on the quality of mine.

This is 2010 not 1985 and things are not done in the same manner to create business and make things happen. This is exactly why the record companies are losing money hand over fist because they are stuck in 1985 business models and are afraid to adapt to new technologies and new ways to connect and comunnicate. I will use Kevin as an example...he is still on dial-up...maybe u have no choice but to use dial-up, I dont know. But in 2010, it is awfully hard to conduct business on dial-up, and that is just a fact.

I came here to offer a service that I know can be useful to some of you. I have answered all questions and been up front about what to expect and how it works. That is all. Most of you have been great and asked a great questions. Some of you have been nothing but judgemental and bitter about something you have never even tried. I have my theories about why that is, but no need to go in that direction.

Ron


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Well, one thing is for certain, you'll have lots of competitors joining you in that market, in the coming years, Ron. From the byline it's exciting to follow where that'll lead us..

I have my theories about why that is, but no need to go in that direction wink

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Youtube, MySpace, etc: Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Susan Boyle, Veronica Ballestrini, etc

A few names against million of others who did nothing using the same tools.

Now Justin Bieber has got another Justin to help him. Susan did a TV show. Taylor & Scott Borchetta, etc ... the Internet helped them to start a process or to add something to it. Didn't replace the whole proceeding.


"Honey, I know, I know, I know times are changin' / It's time we all reach out 4 something new" (Prince)

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Originally Posted by yann
Ron,

if you trashed no one, then it's all good.

But what appears to me as a huge difference between your service and his: he promises very little, except that you'll write better songs and you'll understand better how the industry works.

Lots of people write songs and think that if only the right insiders could listen to their stuff they'd be one chance they'd fall on their knees and cry, God, this is the Messiah we've been looking everywhere for decades and he's gonna save all the music industry!

I'm just cautious about a service that doesn't clearly state from the very beginning that this is NOT going to happen EVER. This is a MYTH. Good things do happen in the course of TIME. By the time people are ready to submit over the bar material, everybody knows them in the business because they've worked for years in their antechamber.

That's my opinion, anyway. I'm always ready to hear challenging views, always provide for a good discussion : )
Yann


Yann and all we promise is direct access to the person you choose. We dont promise record deals, song placement, production deals or anything like that. Never once has that been stated by me OR on the website. All we guarantee is that the person will listen and respond via video, so what is so wrong with that?

And it is not a Myth that people can get discovered in a one shot pop. It happens all the time everyday...a chance meeting at an open mic...singing on the corner...seeing a video on youtube. Does it happen often, of course not, which has no relevence as to whether or not it can happen to the next guy. It has happend 6 times on our site in 6 months with more being cultivated as we speak. 100k people audition for American Idol every year knowing that ony 12 will make the live show and ONE will win. So should they not take the chance and try knowing the odds are stacked against them? That just isnt the American way.

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Yann, ask any contestant from the talent competition finals world wide, how much money they've made from music.. or rather, due to the nature of their contracts, WHEN they will make some? laugh

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It is very clear what Blazetrak is and offers and it has been stated by me and the website in clear writing:

Blazetrak is a website that puts you DIRECTLY in touch with indusrty Pros and Celebrites (for a FEE) to seek advice and opportunites. That is all.

The general public can decide whether or not it is worth a fee to showcase your talent for our professinals. All we are providing is the access.

So again, what is so wrong with that? If you have the ability to talk to people like this for free, then of course you dont need Blazetrak.. I dont even need Blazetrak! I am lucky enough to be able to call people up and have a conversation about things like this...and so is MAB...and so are several other people. But there is a talented young kid in Nebraska where there is no access in sight...NO industry no anything...and SHE believes she can make it if she can get her foot in the door. Why cant this be her foot in the door? She can send her work to Rodney Jerkins or Paul Worley. It would have cost her 5 times as much to get on flight to LA or Nashville to TRY to get a meeting with them. Her song may suck, it may be great! Who knows, but that is not for me to decide. It is her chance..maybe her only chance to have someone like that give her the time of day and pay attention for 5 minutes. Is that so bad?

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to get songs to the artist, you could stand outside their bus and play guitar and sing while you stand there. I've seen that happen more than once.

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