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I'm no longer looking for artists. Thank you very much to those that contacted me about joining!! This caused quite a lively debate... it was fun getting our opinions out there and talking about free music and how it affects the music industry.

For now, I've decided to only use the Pop Can Records label for my own music. Not because of the debate that occurred after posting this, but because I realized that I simply do not have time to promote other artists. I thought I would... but I don't.

Hi, I'm creating a label/promotional organization (and I use the term organization very loosely). It is called "Pop Can Records" and the site is:

http://popcan.goroundmusic.com

go-round is my personal music project and I'll be hosting the Pop Can site there for now. Eventually I imagine that Pop Can will have it's own domain.

I'm marketing Pop Can records as a non-profit label. Love it or hate it, it's all good. Differences in opinions is what makes the world go-round (pun on my artist name intended). I expect that many will not like the free business model. But, I hope that many will embrace it. Free/non-profit? Yes. Because if you're an artist on the Pop Can label you will be offering certain tracks or albums up for free.

You can choose to have an album with the Pop Can label or just a few tracks. The deal is also non-exclusive. So, you can have an acoustic only version of your album on the Pop Can label, but have a full band version of the album on your own site that you sell.

Think of Pop Can as a stepping stone to bigger things. If you allow Pop Can to give some of your music away, then there is a much greater chance that you'll be noticed. If you're noticed by a major label, then Pop Can will graciously step aside and wish you much success!

Pop Can will make nothing. Pop Can will not own your music. You will just be giving us the right to promote it.

You can e-mail popcanrecords[at]gmail[dot]com for more information.

"This sounds fishy. Why do all this to make nothing?"
I enjoy coming home after a long day at work and listening to new music. I enjoy web design and marketing. This is going to be an exciting, fun hobby for me. I'll get to create, promote and meet new people.

Last edited by go-round; 03/28/10 04:13 AM.
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Howdy Go-round, Gus here. We yakked a bit when you first started posting, & it's exciting to see so much ambition to help others.

I asked you before, if your handle related to Rodeo Go Rounds. smile
In the arena, you got your 1st GO on Friday night. More GO'S on
Saturday, & the LAST GO is always called the "MONEY GO"
Probly more info than you ever wanted...LOL

I'm going to email you, see whats up. Then we'll decide if my
projects are something you can utilize to our mutual benefit
...........Yak Soon..............Gus


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G.R., can it be non-exclusive? In other words, can I re-record later a song I'd let P.C.R. have for free, and sell the new one? If so, you might have yourself a deal.

Joe

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YEAH, WHAT JOE SAID.......... smile ...........Gus
PLUS, my Avatar is a very small version of my drawing,
I would be happy to volunteer artwork for your use too, under
similar terms.............. wink


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Yeah, what Gus said. Me not artist, but I do graphic design work, and one of the things I have done for people in the past is CD labels and covers. Feel free to use me. You got a logo for your record company yet?

Joe

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Great questions. Yes, it would be non-exclusive.

Basically, Pop Can Records is going to be non-profit, non-exclusive, but pro-promotion wink .

I've got a lot of details to work out. I'm thinking that all I will ask for in return is that you simply put on your band site that you work with Pop Can Records. You could have one version of a song with Pop Can Records and mention that on your site... but have another version that you sell that's not associated with the label. Make sense?

I guess Pop Can is going to be more of a promotion company than a label, since all the music will be free... But, I'm still going to treat it as a label.

Joe, I don't have a logo yet I was going to work on that tonight... It may be as long as a week or more before I get a web page up because this weekend will be very busy for me. But, if you haven't already, e-mail me so we can stay in touch.

Gus, your artwork looks great, I'd be interested. Same goes to you Joe... both you guys, if you want to e-mail me potential logos feel free!

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Okay, let's give away our music. That's the problem with the music industry today. Free music. CDBaby is giving away our music. Now you want to. Why not dig ditches for free. Good luck.

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go-round, that sounds really cool, but what kind of promotion do you plan on doing besides building sites for bands?

It's cool if that's all you plan on doing, but then you probably shouldn't worry TOO much about becoming a big, bad label.

smirk

By the way, I'm new here.

Hi everybody.

smile


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Originally Posted by maxameleon
go-round, that sounds really cool, but what kind of promotion do you plan on doing besides building sites for bands?

It's cool if that's all you plan on doing, but then you probably shouldn't worry TOO much about becoming a big, bad label.

smirk

By the way, I'm new here.

Hi everybody.

smile


I'm not worried about becoming a big bad label, I was kidding in the first post. I know, with this business model, I won't become a big bad label.

It's not going to be a traditional label by any stretch of the imagination. It's going to be more of a non-profit promotional organization that is non-exclusive.

So, you can have a few songs on the Pop Can Label for free, but still sell all your other music for however music you want.


This idea is in it's infancy. I'm still thinking about how it will work, not work, this and that. So, I'm going to be honest... right now, I will just host the artist's music, pump it out to different blogs and online radio programs. Can you do this yourself? Yes. Is it nice to have someone else doing for you as well, for free? I think so.


And Ben, the purpose of this label is not going to be to give away all of an artist's music for free. If there is an artist that wants to do that fine. But, the purpose is to have the opportunity to be a part of a label, with just some of your songs even, so that you can have help promoting your music. In today's music industry you almost have to give away at least a few songs for free. People expect it, especially for artists no one has ever heard of.

I'm sure Ben won't be the only person that doesn't like the idea of a non-profit label though... smile

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The crux of the problem in music today is free music. People expect it. To advocate more free music doesn't help, weather you are unknown or already established. Using an excuse like "non-profit" means nothing.

The site desperately needs SEO. No key words. You need visitors to the web site before anyone hears the free music or it will remain on the back pages of the search engines.

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this is a pretty smart idea and if you are truely trying to approach it like this then i think you got something I will send some artists your way cuz I already know a bunch that do give tunes out for free pretty much all the time. You have sales background? but I think you could be really busy if you want me to advertise


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Originally Posted by ben willis
The crux of the problem in music today is free music. People expect it. To advocate more free music doesn't help, weather you are unknown or already established. Using an excuse like "non-profit" means nothing.

The site desperately needs SEO. No key words. You need visitors to the web site before anyone hears the free music or it will remain on the back pages of the search engines.


There isn't a web site yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you're talking about my personal music site, goroundmusic.com, that's not the label's site. I haven't finished the label's site yet. Also, my site does have keywords and I know all about SEO. But, even if my site didn't have keywords, it wouldn't matter much. Search engines of today like Google don't even rely on keywords that much.

But, I don't want to get into a technical discussion here.

Think of the label that I'm starting as a stepping stone for unknown artists. You might be giving away an album for free today so you can get more exposure, but then a big label could come along, hear your music because it was freely distributed, and sign you.

And also, let's not argue! I don't mean to upset anyone. I just want to promote music. Again, it's fun for me.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Johnson
this is a pretty smart idea and if you are truely trying to approach it like this then i think you got something I will send some artists your way cuz I already know a bunch that do give tunes out for free pretty much all the time. You have sales background? but I think you could be really busy if you want me to advertise


Thanks Aaron. Send me an e-mail if you know of artists or have any ideas. As far as a sales background goes, yes. I also have a Marketing degree and I'm going back to school now for Information Technology.

Whoa this just turned into a job interview I think.

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Howdy GO, Gus here. Sure, I'd work on your logo. I'll pull Joe
in on this too, If he's willing......... wink smile I'll use the idea
that you emailed me...................Yak Soon


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No argument. Just saying that I don't believe that giving away music is such a good idea. If you were an artist, would you give away paintings? Statues?
Looks like people are willing to go along so good luck. Remember that we all suffer when you give away your art.

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Maybe some of you older hands here can help me, but doesn't it seem like every few months or so in the past, someone has been talking about variations on this same theme? Why don't you go back and find out what others have done and then see if there are things to avoid or embrace?

I might be wrong but this sounds awfully familiar. And yes, Ben has it right that everyone suffers when you reinforce the "everything's free' model. That is what led to where we are now. People gave away free music and then everyone expected it.

MAB

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Thanks Marc.

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I understand. Still, letting fans have a few songs free is a great way to promote your music in my opinion. It's not for everyone.

Also, I think you guys are looking at it wrong. I think because I used the term "label" it might be throwing things off here. Let me ask this. Do you dislike music blogs that promote artists' music by offering free downloads? If you do, then that's fine, end of conversation. But, if you don't dislike music blogs, then what I'm going to do is no different. I just plan on giving some tunes away to promote the artist's larger catalog that they do sell.

Even before the Internet, didn't bands give away free demos?

Marc, you're probably right. This probably does sound awfully familiar. I'm sure other people have posted similar ideas. It's nothing new. I feel like a broken record because I keep saying this, but, I enjoy promoting, I enjoy finding new artists, it's a fun hobby. The fun goes away as soon as money pops into the picture, for me anyways. However, I will be giving the artist the option to charge for their music... as long as they allow me to donate all the profits.

I charge for my music (I only have 4 songs recorded right now), but if I ever sell any tracks, I'm donating the money to cancer research. Not to get all "whoa is me", and I definitely don't want to sound that way! But, people I know have passed from or have cancer and it just hit me one day that I could charge for my downloads, but then donate the money to research.

So, again, I'll offer that same option to any artist interested. But, I imagine that MOST artists that join my label will just go the free download route.

Finally, let me reiterate that this is in the trial phase. You may be 100% correct and it may not be a good idea. We'll see.

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if it's a website it doesn't seem to be any different than soundclick...etc. a place where you have your music posted...you can do e-commerce, a small amount of exposure...seems to make nothing financially,but promote the artists, that promotion doesn't seem like it would have much hu$tle without some mu$cle behind it...the competition is pretty well organized...you might call it a label but it sure sounds like it's gonna start as a website where artists put their music for promotional purposes...and there's a bunch of those...what can you bring to the game that nobody else is bringing? think it through, your heart's in the right place...be well...moker

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Thanks Moker! You're correct, except the employees at soundclick don't push your music. I may fail miserably, I'll admit it. But, I'll at least try to push the artists music out to blogs, radio, etc.

Also, I'm creating the label no matter if other artists want to join because it's also going to be the label for my personal music. Along with it being the label for my own music, I thought I'd allow other artists to join and let me promote them as well.

Guys, I realize this is nothing new. I think a bigger deal is being made out of this than there needs to be. I'm just going to help some artists promote their music. Yes, they can promote themselves, but some may want an extra person out there on their side as well. Don't hate me or I'll go emo emo <-see. You all seem like a great group of musicians, that's why I joined JPFolks. I didn't mean to stir the pot. Group hug? Anyone? Anyone? *crickets* crazy

How about we look at it like this? If you're an artist that is already giving your music away for free and you wouldn't mind an extra person pushing your music, let me know.

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Interesting. I like the idea of promoting it to radio(internet and/or land based). If there was some way that the listeners could be led to where they could buy the artist's music, that could be a good thing. Keep kicking it around and you just might come up with a model that will really help the indie artist.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Interesting. I like the idea of promoting it to radio(internet and/or land based). If there was some way that the listeners could be led to where they could buy the artist's music, that could be a good thing. Keep kicking it around and you just might come up with a model that will really help the indie artist.


Great idea! I'll definitely implement that. Each artist page may have some free music, but the visitor will also see a link or button to purchase the artist's music directly from the artist. Thanks Everett!

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Go Round,

I don't think what anybody is saying is that it is a good or bad idea. No one knows. What myself, Moker, and others are saying are "What are you going to do differently that so many others are already doing and in many cases, failing?" People such as myself and Ben, have watched a business go downhill and years of dedication and work, (myself with hundreds of songs recorded) simply dissapear.
It is much why I got out of depending on my music to carry the weight and switched to education for other songwriters to keep them grounded and moving forward, kind of selling the "picks and shovels' of the industry.
One of the most common themes on this and other web sites are tying to weed through the scams and the reality and those that seem like "a good idea at the time". What ever you do, and I applaud your desire to help songwriters, make sure you view every angle and if there are some other people that can help you by their own experiences, seek that out in your research.

Good luck in whatever you do.

MAB

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The whole notion of free music bothers me. There was a day when people, me included had cassette recorders included on our stereo systems. We recorded vinyl records to cassette to play in the car. It was time consuming because you had to play the whole album to record it. No one had the time to record hundreds and thousands of tapes to give away to friends. Music pirates did it, but for a profit. That's why it's illegal.

Now we can download music in seconds, rip CD's, and send thousands of copies to anyone. The entitlement mentality doesn't have a problem with that. My own family doesn't see a problem with it. It's still illegal. My brother who lives in another state just sent me a CD of a bluegrass artist that he burned and he wants me to listen to. He's a lawyer, he should know better. Another brother told me that his wife found a cool web site that allows you to download free music. When I told him what I think about it, the subject changed. Like I'm the one that doesn't get it.

Streaming music is a different story. CDBaby is now streaming complete songs. Now a potential buyer can hear the complete song without plopping down .97 cents out of curiosity. I have more non-paid streams than sales. Maybe the music isn't good enough to sell, I don't know. I do know that it was selling before they added streaming.

"Lemonaid Stand" recording artists like myself don't suffer as much as the A-list artists. We wearn't making much to begin with. Adding more incentive to the free music entitlement mentality doesn't help the industry.


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Ben & Marc, I totally understand your concerns. For better or worse, the music industry has been changed by free music on the Internet. It sucks that you've both seen a drop in sales because of it.

The bottom line is this. I created "Pop Can Records" for my own music that I write. I just wanted to have my own label, for my own music. If other artists would like to be on this label as well, that's great, I'll help promote them. I'm not starting up some huge free download website.

As far as "What can you do that other sites like SoundClick don't already do?" Maybe nothing. Who knows!? I do know that the employees at SoundClick don't mention you to people they meet and help push your music out to blogs and other places. That might be one small difference. Will I do much for you as an artist? Again, maybe not. But, if you're an artist that is already giving away an EP, for example, then you might want to be a part of my label and have that one extra site/person rooting for you so to speak.

Also, I don't plan on helping more than 5 to 10 artists. This is just a small project.

I think if we want to continue debating about free music online, then another thread should be started.

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
And yes, Ben has it right that everyone suffers when you reinforce the "everything's free' model. That is what led to where we are now. People gave away free music and then everyone expected it.

MAB


I have to disagree with you and Ben, Marc.

That's like saying because a friend who is a good golfer gave me a free lesson that I wouldn't expect to pay for a lesson from Tiger Woods. grin

Am I supposed to pay $50 to see a Little League game, so I don't start getting it into my head that a major league game should be free?

I don't buy it - the problem has nothing to do with unknowns giving away music for free - and everything to do with people stealing music that isn't free. Two entirely different things...

How many guitars are sold in this country every year? A good fraction of the folks buying them have something inside them that they want to share with others. So they're supposed to try to sell it? So that people don't think that because they give their song away, Lady Gaga's stuff should be free too? grin

My experience is that people would rather pay for something good than get something mediocre for free. If the two begin to approach each other, the folks doing it for money better up their game.

Scott




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My experience is that people would rather pay for something good than get something mediocre for free. If the two begin to approach each other, the folks doing it for money better up their game.


Nice sentiment but it's been my experience that people will steal the music if they can. If they can't get it for free they will move on to something they can get for free. And if it isn't free and if there is a way to steal it, they will.

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Nice sentiment but it's been my experience that people will steal the music if they can. If they can't get it for free they will move on to something they can get for free. And if it isn't free and if there is a way to steal it, they will. [/quote]

Sad but true. Doesn't say much about the morals of people today that will sell their souls for ten or fifteen bucks.

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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson


Nice sentiment but it's been my experience that people will steal the music if they can. If they can't get it for free they will move on to something they can get for free. And if it isn't free and if there is a way to steal it, they will.


Bill, there are two different issues here. I agree with you on your last point - if something isn't free and people can find a way to steal it, they will. Not everyone, but enough to make a serious dent. I won't defend those who do - because it's thievery.

The other issue is whether people who DO put stuff out for free are hurting those who don't. This relates to your second point. I don't believe this for one second.

Think back to when you were a kid - If some local guy gave you a 45 of his own song that he had pressed, would that have stopped you from buying an Elvis record?

The only thing that would have stopped folks from buying Elvis records is if they could get Elvis records for free. Not some other guy's.....

Scott

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Think back to when you were a kid - If some local guy gave you a 45 of his own song that he had pressed, would that have stopped you from buying an Elvis record?


That is certainly true Scott. Problem is today isn't "when I was a kid". The Elvis records ARE out there for free and people will download, Live record a stream, or go to one of the file sharing sites and get it there. FREE
So Artist's who give their stuff away are really not making a dent anymore. It doesn't matter whether you give it away or not. The folks will still get it for free if they want it.
When I was a kid the ONLY way to get a second copy of a 45 RPM, or an Elvis Record, was to buy it. Of course you could shoplift smile

That's the difference. It's like drugs. When I was a Kid the only people who used POT were junkies and, Dare I say it, Musicians. We looked down on anyone who used drugs. Kids didn't drink either.
Today Drugs and drinking are as common as toilet paper, and free pirated music on the internet.

It's today's Society. Sex, Drugs, Drinking, and Free Music.

HA! when I was young(er) it was Sex, Drugs, and Rock n Roll (which actually meant sex). The music was an afterthought. But we paid for it.

The radio was used by the artist's to get their music heard. Then if people liked it they would go buy the record.
Today they just steal it on the internet.

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Well, I wasn't going to debate whether music should be free, or who's to blame for music piracy on the Internet (I have opinions on both that I don't expect people to agree with). I have decided to do the Pop Can Records thing, and here's why.

It's an OMD--just like Soundclick, SongRamp, ReverbNation, and others--where *.mp3 files of some of my stuff will be archived and be listen-toable and downloadable for free. I have no problem with that. All my music on those other sites is listen-toable and downloadable for free, too, because (1) I want people to listen to my stuff becausxe I'm a writer "on the make," and (2) the Internet being the anarchic environment that it is, I can't really prevent somebody from getting my stuff for free if they want to.

Where I make money in music is when people come to performances (ideally, paying to do so), and when they buy CDs. The CDs I sell are and will be professionally recorded, and are and will be *not* *.mp3 files--better quality stuff, in other words, that I hope (and expect) people to pay for. It's the same business plan as the drug dealer, actually--I'm going to get you hooked, and I'm going to do it with free samples. Now, this business plan doesn't work for everybody, and I'm not about to force it on anybody. It is what *I* want to do right now.

So I don't have problem shipping Pop Can Records some of my stuff. Sure, they're small, but every extra listener I capture is another potential addict, sand ten bucks is ten bucks, and all it cost me to get it was a little time. I don't see a downside. For me, anyway.

Jes' my opinion, as always.

Joe

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And a darn good opinion it is too Joe.


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I agree with Bill & Scott that people will steal music no matter what. If you think your music is safe an secure online just because people have to pay to download it, think again. I won't put up the links here, but, you can EASILY find free software that will record any song that you can play online to a person's computer (I do not use this type of software, I just know it exists. For the record I HATE people that steal music.). Just like in the days of tapes. If you heard a song you loved on the radio, you could stick a tape in and wait for them to play it, then hit record.

So, if you allow free streams of your music, it can be downloaded or recorded for free no matter what. Now, some artists don't allow free downloads and they only allow 30 sec clips of their music. That's all fine and dandy, but, I personally can't decide if I like an artist from a 30 second clip.

So, in the days of tapes and now in the days of the Internet, you can always find a way to get music for free. Yes, it's MUCH easier now...

Also while I'm talking about 30 second clips...If you're an unknown artist, I don't think you're going to sell any music if you don't give any songs away and you only give 30 second clips. Who is going to visit an unknown artist's site, listen to their 30 sec. samples and buy their album? People do, I guess, but I'm thinking not many.

One of the newest sites for artists (bandcamp.com) explains why they don't like 30 sec. clips either in their FAQs. I'm at work and my company blocks bandcamp.com so I can't copy and paste what they say, but from what I remember, they have some really good points on why you should allow full streams of your music. But, again, as soon as you allow full length streams, people can get your music for free.

The Internet was designed in such a way that it is very difficult to hide anything. People can rip off your website by viewing the source code, they can rip off your music, they can steal your identity... it's a scary place... the Internet. But now I'm REALLY getting off topic.

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It occurs to me that I kind of hijacked or drifted this thread into a discussion about stealing music when it was never intended for that.
Sorry about that Go-around.

Ha! go-around. It's like a pun. We kinda went around the subject. smile


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My whole life is one big pun. No, not really. While we're off topic... you've got a nice studio! That's my dream. To have a little studio. I'm sure that's every musician's dream.

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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
It occurs to me that I kind of hijacked or drifted this thread into a discussion about stealing music when it was never intended for that.


I dunno, Bill, I think they're all of a piece. Like Joe said, it's all about developing a base of addicts, to use his word.

If you're uncompromising on the issue of privacy (30 second samples, no freebies, everything centralized in one place), you're basically walling yourself up and making it much harder for fans to find and fall in love with your work.

On the other hand, if you accept that people have been stealing music in one way or another for 30 years and that there are still customers out there (in the UK, for example, digital downloads have finally started offsetting the downturn in CD sales), then the next logical step is to cast as wide a net as possible, which is what makes go-round's label (and the others like it) so important.

Think of it like this:

In most spaces, 50% of an audience is honest, 10% is principled and will pay for music that they want to listen to, 30% will steal it if they can, and 10% are principled in the wrong way and is going to steal it no matter what. So rather than trying to bemoan the percentages or try to change them, why not expose yourself to as many audiences as possible?

All those 10%-ers add up.


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Yep. Agreed.

But, you're always going to have differences in opinions on this topic. I can empathize with both sides. It's just like politics. You have one side that thinks one way, and the other side that feels totally different.


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Keep it up Go-round anyone who has built a corp went through the same [naughty word removed] ;]


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Heh crazy

Well, Aaron, actually I've decided to use Pop Can Records for my music only right now. First, only a couple people expressed interest and also, after thinking about it, I don't have the time to help promote other artists right now.

It's kinda like eating with your eyes. You pile up your plate with tons of food because you feel extremely hungry... Well, same thing here... I was itching to help promote other artists and thought it was a good idea, but in reality, I have very little spare time.



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Howdy Billy, Gus here. I'll still help you with a logo no prob,
if you want, i got some ideas, let me know if your interested


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Yes, I'm still interested, I'll PM ya.

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GoRound,

I totally understand what you are doing and I am interested. I am a singer/songwriter and I'm all about helping people as well. I'm from the Atlanta area also and I believe that one hand washes the other. If we're ever going to get anywhere in the music business, we have to take the time to help one another.

Instead of giving away a free album, wouldn't it be better to just give away a free song to promote your album if you have one, etc.? If that be the case, I'm down with it and I'm willing to help out any way that I can. My bio/details are on my website along with my music, etc.

Nice to meet you and I'm new here too.

God bless,

-LeeAndrew Bray

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Hey LeeAndrew,

I'll check out your music tonight. Welcome to JPF!

I'm no longer going to do this right now... In the future maybe. I really don't have the time now. I barely have enough time to promote my own music.


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