JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Lady GaGa -- not just a pretty face.

Madonna-Cher wannabe. As Big Jim would say, mediocrity is now the norm.

Mediocrity is now the norm.

I think we need to compare apples with apples.. Gaga is in the dance music genre, and has raised the bar for compelling lyrics there..

I am comparing apples to apples. To me there's no difference between her big hit and "Believe" by Cher or "Vogue"by Madonna.
Congrtats on making out her lyrics though.

There is a diff between crass and class. Sadly Gaga is all hype and show...nothing much to back it up.....she can open her legs quite wide though.

See here's the thing, WE have no idea what the professional music BUSINESS is like as it someplace and something most of us NEVER see or be a part of. Regardless of the phase or state it's in. (like that business or not)
This is always why we criticize it and bash it to death. Also why we do NOT have to back up anything we say or do.

Here is one example of what I'm talking about and
The answer to your question Kevin.

Lets say you go to work for a company EVERYDAY to an office, and you wear WHATEVER you want. And basically within in certain boundaries do things the way YOU like to do them. You wear jeans
an flannel shirt and a bandanna okay? And you make a very nice $40,000.00 a year... This is you!

Now the next day your boss says to you, hey if you come here and wear this OUTFIT say a tie and jacket and slacks, and do things a bit differently we will pay you $500,000.00 a year instead.
Same company! Same line of work, just varied!
What would you do??

A) Keep my complete integrity because those jeans are so special to me they represent me, and I like doing things my own way, so I'm content with my $40 grand a year, "I'll pass no thanks sir".

B) Make the changes, and say to yourself, With this raise I can send ALL my kids to the best schools. I can take care of my family in any possible regard medically or anything that comes up.
Also I can work a LOT less years and retire for LIFE at a young age so I can enjoy my life and my time here doing WHATEVER I want to do. Oh yeah but some people will think I'm a sell out! So let me think about it and get back to you.

Okay you got it? The answer is B PERIOD!!! Only You'll NEVER get that offer or chance to even try it!

Lady Gaga did! Now she doesn't have to follow plan B she can just eat drink and party and piss her money away if she wants, do it till it stops or she drops, That's her business.

She used to sit at the piano, and sing pretty songs, look nice normal and pretty,hey she plays and sings good, alot more appealing sonically then so many who criticize her.

SO she does this and everyone who knows her says nice work, how many CD's did you sell on CD Baby or I tunes with your NO EXPOSURE act. Great you made 15,000 this year (hey wish I did) I made $162.00 lol.
Anyway, Stefani Germanotta you'll be forgotten in two years like this...

Okay now Lady Gaga you may be forgotten as well, but actually your NAME won't. And neither will your ROYALTY checks. And after you do this this you'll be set for life, that means making ANY KIND of music you want PERIOD and NEVER ever having to make a cent from it or worry about making a cent from it. You can go back to being whatever or whoever you were before hand. Do YOU have the ability to make this move?

Smart!!! period.

Phil Collins was set musically as he is a GREAT GREAT drummer period. Never had to do anything else PERIOD! He decided to wear the other suit and made himself and his band huge POP stars in the 80's HUGELY successful and rich, And he's better than you musically in every regard no matter what you think of him.
That means he comes to your house any time any place picks up your equipment and embarrasses you.

That IS her office her job, her career and life. She decided the raise was the better move
We talk about certain aspects of music from the couch, get in the game, or even be on the sidelines of it. Understand YOUR business...

Mike I sing songs that I do not really want to sing in places that I do not really want to be to people that I do not really want to perform to. BUT it is a living and I give it my best shot.
Now I could only play to audiences I want to and sing only songs I like to sing...but I would make nothing.
I would stick feathers up my ass whilst singing yankee doodle if it made me the kind of money gaga makes. Does not make me any more talented or clever or admire her more or mean she is any more clever or talented acting the way she does or wearing those ridiculous outfits. Just makes me shake my head at the ridiculous stupid public who buy into it. Good luck to her....but she IMO is still mediocre.

My question wasn't meant to be an indictment of the record companies or PR machines. I simply am curious as to how much of the transformation was her own idea and how much came from outside. Personally, I like her in both personas, but I agree that as Stefani, she would probably be viewed by many as just another girl sitting at the piano. (Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that!)

Mike Caro gets it...If Cher was at the beginning, OR Madonna like this young lady is, you'd all be saying the same thing... How about David Bowie, and his "glitter rock"... Is Ziggy Stardust bad because he dressed up? Peter Gabriel wearing costumes in early Genesis? Gaga is just starting to hone her craft...I am REALLY not sure what WOULD impress all of you naysayers...The problem IS that everything's already been done ! How is it possible to BE original ? Taylor Swift? hhmm... Miley ?...ummm Nickelback? There's only twelve notes !

My only comment was that her music drives my crazy, and not in a good way.

Herbie I felt the same about Bowie and Gabriel....I liked most their music but thought they were complete fruit cakes for the way they acted and dressed up. As for the rest of the folks you mention I think they are all over rated and I could not care less about how they dress. Their music is just not up to the standard I would expect for the fame they have......no matter how it is packaged....JMO

Ziggy Stardust is an excellent and well produced album. Most people who heard the album didn't see the live show including myself. Can anyone coincide an audio record with a visual concert as Bowie did in this day?

It's all visual today. T&A. Don't know if Bowie could do it now.

It takes a certain level of talent to become a star that shines this brightly...controversy surrounds a ton of major stars as far back as we can remember...to get to where she is financially, well you couldn't really call it a stupid move now could you...Akon will retire off what she has made him too,yes there's some puppet strings there that she's more than happy to dangle on the end of for awhile...I ain't crazy about her, in fact some of stunts and antics and music make me crazy...but she's the next one from the mold that drive some of us crazy... but...she's got a string of hits and some FAT checks in her mailbox...and I DON"T...she was prepared when she got her break, it's no accident, it didn't fall in her lap...she learned to play and then got a break, which many of us never get, but when she got it, she's taken that break to the hilt , and financially atleast, she's set for life...and damn it's so easy to throw stones at a glass house from a couch ain't it ?
do i think she's great, No. do i think she has some talent...Yes, do I think she followed Akon's plan to make her a big star, yep, did it work, yep...opinions are a dime a dozen, i've got one, you've got one, and Lady Gaga probably don't give sh^t about any of 'em...and that is my opinion

I know Kev I just used your question as the spark to bring up the subject, as it was relative.
I really don't know or care who's idea it was hopefully hers, but either way it was a plan and it worked. Business the Business of Music... Show Business!

A few quick notes -

Think about KISS, in my opinion one of least best bands EVER when weighing talents skill, creativeness against the success factor and the other huge groups of there time period. They still make millions a year TODAY in just merchandise selling alone.
To me they were musically 2 steps ahead of The Bay City Rollers.
And just about every rock band in the 70's was better then them in EVERY regard accept STAGE SHOW.. Why? Image & Makeup that's why.

It can work for some and maybe not for others. But either way Pop music IS what it is, and this girl is good at it. If she copied some old classic music that we all LOVE then she wouldn't make it today. That's what we keep forgetting.. It's not OUR time, Pop music was is and will always be geared to YOUTH!

And that is why it was GREATEST in the later 60's and much of the 70's... They let that rule slide ALOT and let MUCH more diversity on to the main CHART. Any period that lets GREAT instrumental music be on the radio every day and on the main chart WINS!! period!

Vogue - is a great record, and a very very catchy song. The simple musicality of it and the feel is FANTASTIC! Just like "Thriller" was. When i hear a great feel, with great bass lines and a great rhythm in a melody vocal.. I pick up on it instantly. I don't even care what the sound are being made on or from.

It does not matter WHAT you do or WHAT time period your in, to write & make a HIT song happen is really really really hard to do.
If most of the labels are putting out crap, and it's only crap to us because we have something to compare it to. Well that"something" is pretty much gone from the industry as far as promoting and exposure. Again we are talking the MAIN chart not individual ones..

1- You can not blame some kid for writing songs that are just like the others the radio plays day in and out.

2- If it's so easy then you (meaning anyone) do the exact same thing, sell yourself out for the bigger prize. Problem is "You can't do it"
So if they suck and we can't do what they do, what does that make us?
Different! That's all.. from another period and place!
Not pop music of the day.. So what's the point of going on about it or them. Do something about it, start by hitting a time machine and going back to our teens or twenties.

I think Lady Gaga writes excellent music.

I think Barney Rubble writes excellent music.

Hi Mike....We can do what they do we just choose not to....We are too grown up to go back to our childhood and dumb down to the level of popstars. It is wrong to assume that we are ALL trying to make it in the record industry. A lot here are simply not interested or have accepted that they will never make it.
I do not accept this argument that people like Gaga work hard and are pro in their attitude therefore deserve their position. Nobody deserves to earn that obscene kind of money.... period. Perhaps that is me just being political. Musicians and pop stars etc do not deserve such fame and fortune. I know lots of people who work just as hard if not harder and are more professional and more talented. Simple fact is they will not make it into the big time. They are nurses or doctors or in the army or other people doing life saving and invaluable jobs. These are the real heroes people who should be role models. Most pop stars are shallow spoilt brats who cannot behave and have blown up egos. Most would not last five minutes in the real world of making music. Gaga would be booed off stage at some of the venues I play.

He was a great actor!

HEY FREDDIE BOY! Lets ditch the wives and go bowling!

Post deleted by Mike Caro Substudio

Our three young artist over here, the girls ages 11,14 & 16 were all filmed by a network last week for a pilot for a possible reality show all about music. Network? Think Regis...

Two of them are attending Laguardia in NYC (Fames Performing Arts School)

And little Kacey who idolized (Taylor Swift) well her songs including one of mine, her voice and her picture are on the desk at Sony Music right now.. and also at the home of it's top executive...

NONE of this would be possible at ALL if I thought and talked the way you do Jim

And I have all the other stuff that is "credible" by yours and my standards down as well anyway... This way I can toss opinions in any direction, but STILL don't much as I really understand all it takes to get or be anywhere with any of it. Also I know how much my abilities are lacking.. And those opinions are meant to inspire or motivate and improve and help understand & accept things that are difficult.

Music is magical to me, it's never about what kind or well you use these kinda chords instead of these chords,or you play that style and not this style... It's never A or B I don't use terms like "oh your playing a I IV VI progression, that makes it seem common and uninspired.

I truly love music not just love the music that I like and listen too...
And It's called "killing yourself" lol for what you love.

We can be stuck and buried in situations we just can't get out of or do anything about, but we don't have to help bury ourselves. There's plenty of others out there to do that to us...

Hope your feeling well these days, I'm not as you can tell how cranky I am over here, that's why I haven't written much lately that and I can't sit up.

Peace

LOL, you should sack your booking agent, Jim. Looks like Gaga is running with all the dole

That's wonderful, congratulations big time, you deserve all of this! Be well (or better)!

People who make that kind of money, whether they are pop stars, CEOs, race car drivers, news anchors, etc. etc., are only able to do so because of the marketplace and supply and demand. Those folks are paid that well because they can generate money, either through ticket and CD sales, company profits, the sale of advertising, gaining market share and so on.

Is someone who looks pretty and reads the news on TV worth more than a heart surgeon? Not in terms of their value to society, but in terms of money generated, yes.

So Lady Gaga dresses up and acts outrageous and people spend money to see and hear her do it. Her musicianship (which is very good IMHO) is not really the issue - it is her entertainment value......and she has it. If you don't think she should be popular, you are actually disputing the taste of the masses, not her abilities. I would rather see and hear her any day than all the rappers in the world.

Colin ....The masses generally have no taste or standards....People generally are usually gullible and easily led. Youngsters ESPECIALLY will buy into anything if it is marketed the right way for them. It is high time that someone did dispute this crap we are being spoon fed. I prefer not to see gaga and her ilk and gangster rappers mouthing off but that is just my taste. It all comes down to standards...some of us set them higher than others. Just because the pop industry has extremely low standards does not mean we have to stoop down to their level. The marketplace and supply on demand is corrupt, crass and tasteless. We as adults should not condone this corruptness but fight it. A lot of kids come out of school nowadays with no respect either for themselves or for others, they can barely write their own name and the vast majority have very low standards all round, with junk food, moronic music, binge drinking, teenage pregnacies and drugs as the normal standards they adhere to.
Hurray for supply on demand and market forces. They make the world a better place. I on the other hand make it a worse place by being negative and trying to improve standards.

I think there is therapy for that. Sort of like Clockwork Orange, but I think it is 8 hours of Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus (ha, ha).

Kevin

Check out this cartoon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c

OK, back to the subject.

If you're not yet convinced about Lady Gaga ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ95z6ywcBY

So she should concentrate on soft porn?

I love the smokin' sunglasses.

I confess I like the bandaid style bra but the prison scenes and the crude language are over the top (or is it under the bottom) for my taste. I am surprised that Gaga and Beyonce need to sink that low to sell music. I wonder who comes up with that crap (yes Jim, I am using the C word).

I made it about 1/2 way thru and that was too long. Jim's right: soft-porn crap. The prison stuff has nothing to do with the song that I can tell, but it was a great opportunity to show off scantily clad women in same-sex scenarios. I think Lady Gaga and Beyonce are talented enough, but they are interested in that shock value, too.

Aaah, reminds me of the early days of MTV, when we loved all those hot video's.

Kevin

My take is that any singer should first and foremost be an entertainer.

Bowie and Madonna both made the changes in their careers and their visuals complemented their sound...and the result was entertainment.

Madonna probably started "it's all about the dancing and choreography that goes with it" stage shows, while Bowie and Elton adopted "personalities. In both cases, it was revolutionary


Here, say what you want, but the lady wrote and had a large hand in putting this film together...plus its another hooky, poppy dance song...

So maybe she does not appeal to your demographic. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Appreciate her for her talent and daring. She is re energizing dance, (the first to crowd trance and hip off off the floor???) and re energizing the music video (keep watching to see what her influence does to this side of the music biz, music videos have been acknowledged as bland and bad the last few years and were waning) ...plus she's an edgy personality.

I'm not saying she's the cat's meow, and I can't say I'm a huge fan (though that may come), but she has lots of talent and my respect, and I believe she's influential and an agent of change. AND she's smart as a whip.

I don't find her compelling. I do think she has some talent and has a good marketing plan but it is nothing that impresses me. Things are subjective - and for me, I would not bother to listen to or see her.

Tom

I might watch her soft porn videos but I would not pay to hear her sing.
Or if my wife is in earshot I might listen to her sing (at a push) but would never pay to see her soft porn videos.

Too many bimbos nowadays are relying on sex and image to sell rather than the quality of their music. I still reckon she is way way overated musically but she might have a future in porn.

OK, I watched it...then dug into the Lyrics & Hype listed pre-video. FUN watching both Gaga & Beyonce doing "Hommage" to the Long-Form Video. Nothing "deep" to the Lyrics, tho I think I heard "Dance from me/I don't want to think any more" as the Music Played.

I think Gaga's Message is Mostly Entertainment (Even tho the 2 Gals made their Exit Scene in the Pussy-Wagon from the "Kill Bill" Flick) while she does "hommage" to Tarantino's film directing.

I enjoyed the over-the-top Fashions blended-in (& Gaga's "Prison Outfit" as she enters the jail scene is a total HOOT!) and that Crime Scene Tape Bikini was, frankly, Dazzling! Some of it's jaded-a-bit, but I'll give the gal credit for NOT being Boring.

It was Fun being able to see this Production and NOT pay for it.
Gaga & Beyonce have both got enough business-savy to know that this Buzz-Created WILL Generate Sales..in whatever-else the gals HAVE got for-sale: Clothes, Perfumes, whatever. (There WAS a little web-note that it'd be GOOD to BUY their Downloads so they'd get CHARTED for this Video...)

As for talent...it takes Talent to GET to this point in a career, where it's NOT Just The Music that's being-sold.

That's my take...&..heh.."I don't want to think any more."

Best Wishes & Big Hugs
Stan

Maybe this will convince you

Stripped down acoustic version of papparazzi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3R3KqrJAI4


and for all you Coldplay fans, here she is again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2l_NBPKhdg&feature=related

I was a fan already, but I don't know how anyone could deny her talent after watching this.

DENIED! {LOL}

You win, Bob! I wasn't sure if it would be you or Big Jim to chime in after that.

Don't worry too much about it Bob, you have nothing a quick trip to an Otolaryngologist and Opthalmologist can't cure. Perhaps a simple cleaning might suffice

No question she is talented and very good. I do question her taste after watching the prison video!