JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Full Of Crap Critiques

All Im saying is next time you do a critique, ask yourself if you're being honest, then ask yourself if it's useful, then go head and write it.

and make sure you are consistent. Your not critiquing the person, but the song. Everybody should get the same types of nits.

My point is that you have made yourself the judge and jury of, and in the application of human nature, as if your judgment were infallible. It has never occurred to you that perhaps you made a mistake in your judgment call. Even judges have bad days, those "true" judges that were "appointed", I mean...

It's not Yann, it's Yann personified.

There are many Yanns. he might like to think he's unique, but there are many Yanns, and they usually form cliques on songwriting boards.

They ruin it for anybody new or anybody who doesnt want to be part of the clique.

Its very hard finding like minded people who know what they are talking about and who enjoy the same music as you do, Im not sure such a board exists, I guess im concluding that this board is much the same as the rest.

sigh

once again in English.

It's not the critiquing that bothers me.

It's selective critiquing.

Some people think it;s perfectly fine to jump into a thread and start critiquing it but wont do it to certain others, with somebody they know or a regular, they treat their work differently.

if a song has a problem, that same problem should be addressed in every thread that problem exists, not conveniently brushed under the carpet depending on WHO the song came from.

Yeah...Jersey I hope you get the success and popularity you deserve and that you continue to make new friends here on JPF.

One lesson you may want to learn...Most musicians post songs here so that they can learn what is good and bad and what can be improved. We accept that some people miht not like or songs or are inconsistent in their critiques. A tirade of insults will get you nowhere. For what it is worth I gave you negatives only firing from the hip because of the childish way you offended one of these critiques which in most member's opinion was pretty fair and balanced.

Ah but you too want to be part of a clique: the clique of those who feel "context does NOT matter with a word; if you critique against a word in one post, you MUST critique against that in ALL..." THIS is your clique...

You may consider that nobody will join your clique because it's a stupid clique, founded on a stupid idea, headed by a self-appointed judge and jury, instead of a "regular guy" who wants to hang around and get to know people, before he sets off to judging them.

Yours is a lonely clique because most of us find "judgmental behavior" repulsive.

as long as you continue to lie to yourself - this will remain true...

You can Always pay for a critique - then you just have to worry that they want your money - so will say what you wanna hear.

Jersey,

you finally wrote something right. This place is full of people who share this value: we can help each other grow as artists and otherwise. That's what I tried to do with you as with anyone else. That's what we're all still trying to do, to little avail so far.

Just read this. It's an excerpt of a post that Niteshift (you know, people of the same clique) sent me after I did crap on a song of mine. See if honesty is incompatible with friendliness. The difference with you today: I took his opinion into account, as many different others, and instead of getting angry, I became grateful, because only friends are courageous enough to tell you the truth. Read and be enlightened.

Yuk ! Yuk, yuk, yuk ! Good grief Yann, you've taken a beautifully written, expressed, and delivered song, which was written with a sublime beauty, and turned it into morose rubbish.

oh shut up now seriously.

I have been a part of a few boards, I still get emails from people who werent happy with the boards either.

Many people agree that most boards are popularity contests, popular being the operative word.

People who kiss Azz to the people deemed important are the popular ones.

I didnt invent these thoughts, many people share them.

So pipe down know son, you know not what you speak

Funny thing is yann's critique wasn't even a bad one. lol

"There are many good lines, the best ones being IMHO"
He/she then proceeded to compliment a full verse.

"I think you have here the basics for a good song. You could make it stronger by focusing on its main elements. Remove all what's not crucial and put more emphasis on what's left, which is good."
Yann gave you good solid advice there.

And then he/she even ends it by saying to you.... "All what I've written must be taken with a grain of salt: these are just impressions and opinions, I'm not the Oracle, by any stretch of imagination, and you will have to compare them with others.

Keep up the good work; Take care,"

Outside of saying that you just wrote the next Stairway to Heaven what were you expecting?

Now I'm convinced there will never be peace in the world.
I can't even find some here.

goodnight.

Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

I can never sleep when I know that someone on the Internet is being wrong about something.

look grimace.

The only person who needs to pay for critiques is you.

respect people who are better than you

Fellow JPFers,

In keeping with the new Judge and Jury's rules on critiquing, I offer you my list of words and phrases that I will ALWAYS and consistently rail against, NO MATTER what context you use them in:


adult disposable undergarments

smegma

...

use these words or phrases, you will hear it from me !!!!

You have been warned!!!

Mike

I know but they'll come around

never said I wrote Stairway to Heaven, just wrote something better than you have ever written, and I wrote it in a few minutes.

Hey Jersey,
Are you the same guy that posts on Muse as JerseySomething? I specifically remember reading posts and threads from you on that site where you also felt "victimized"!? Only Muse had "Moderators" that dealt with the thread! I have the same GIFT as YOU,...only I just bring out the worst in "Women"! I've been writing a long time, but like most, have never gotten a cut. I'm quessing you've never gotten one either!? I've learned ONE important quality in being a songwriter,...no matter how good your lyrics are,...how expertly you play guitar,...how mesmerizing your production,...If you DON'T PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS,...IT NOT ONLY DOESN'T MATTER, BUT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER! If you were to get a cut, it'd probably be your only cut, because it would go to your head and no one could be around you! Are you smarter than a FIFTH GRADER? Jury's still out,...but to these gracious people on JPF,...you're sure acting like one! Good luck with ALL your future endeavors! (Are there any internet sites where you don't have contact with other human beings?)

Totally Embarrassed!

Droptine

while you're focused on pennyanntey stuff like this our country is going down the toilet , we gotta get our country back in the hands of the people

Jersey,
I love this place and the people here.I appreciate all of the feedback that I get whether or not I agree with what's being said.The fact the someone would take the time to even comment on one of my songs means the world to me.We are not perfect.None of us.We read lyrics and listen to other peoples music and we give our opinions.Sometimes something will jump out at us,and we find some small way that we THINK may help the other songwriter to have a better song.Sometimes cliches work in a song and sometimes they dont.I myself have given people advice on certain songs only to find myself a few days later making the same exact mistake.We are human.I have read over the thread and I just dont understand your hostility towards Yann.He gave you his opinion ,and he was very kind.I have taken the time to go back and read over many of your posts.You seem to have alot of pent-up hostility in general.It seems that you come here for feedback and the minute someone says something other than "great job",you get all bent out of shape.Perhaps you are not at a stage in your life where you are ready to put your music out there for the world to see yet because no matter how good you happen to be there are always going to be people who dont like your music.I am not sure that you will be able to handle that.Rolling Stone Magazine critics can be pretty harsh.Perhaps you should try some counseling before you start exploiting your music.(You can probably get a tax write-off,but I'm not sure).I imagine that different people handle situations like this in different ways.When someone says something to me here in the forums that I feel is negative,I say a polite thank you,go to the bathroom ,lock the door and get out the kleenex,and I have myself a pity party.Then I go back and re-read what was said and I try to use it constructively(as it is usually meant).But your actions here have probably caused you to never get a truly constructive critique ever again.There will be some who will not critique you because you have pissed them off with your really poor attitude,and the ones that you havent pissed offed will be afraid to say anything out of fear of being called-out for it in an attempt for you to publicly ridicule them,or just out of fear that you will just plain out not be able to handle it and the possibility that it could push you off of the deep-end(which I am afraid you happen to be hanging by a thread right now).I havent been a member here for very long.but in my time here I have found 99% of the people to be very helpful and friendly.I think that you either just need to lighten up or you need to get professional help.You have resorted to attacking people and thier music all because someone thought the word "baby"might not be working really well in your song.Have you ever been rejected by publishers,producers,etc?You might want to consider anti-anxiety medication before attempting to pitch your music.I am not trying to be ignorant towards you in anyway.I think that you are a good writer,but some of the people that you have criticized here today are GREAT writers.You are slamming the door of opportunity in your own face dude.You are closing yourself off from people who may have helped on your climb up the ladder to success.....Just chill out!!!!

He or she? Well, I'm a man, at least I think I am.

See, I'm a teacher, my main weakness is to always try and help people to develop their skills, even when they show very little or get insulting.

But I'm now fed up with the guy. He's gonna reach new heights of rudeness and ridicule pretty soon. If he has an ounce of intelligence - which I seriously doubt by now - he's gonna have a hard morning tomorrow when he realises what he's said and the harm he's inflicted on himself. I think Jersey is a "he", no woman can be so rude and unheeding of anyone's feelings. Cuz he keeps talking about HIS feelings. Doesn't he know that people are rarely happy when they're abused?

No dont know the guy. Sounds like a cool good lookin, happenin guy though

Every time somebody new comes and attacks me, it solidfies what the board is about. An army of like minded people.

They eat together, they crap together, they shower together, they biasedly crit songs together, they argue together etc etc etc, and the slogan is were all in this together...

well not all of us. just who they feel like.

Damn. There goes that idea

Scott

You very well might have written something better then me. Who knows. I haven't heard anything else by you. But what do you do when you get a bad review? Take your ball and go home.

I feel sorry for him cuz what's really happening is...he's really lonely...and pretty soon, nobody here will answer his posts, and then he'll feel empty.

As long as we answer, he won't be lonely...but then he'll go somewhere else and continue the same cycle, and it's sad...

Sorry yann. Hope you didn't take offense. Didn't know.

My question is a simple one.

Why is everyone giving this guy who obviously dislkes us all....so darn much of your time and energy in this thread?

If you're not part of the solution....well, your part of the problem. Do I have to come up there and separate all of you? LOL


Jan

Another soldier surfaces.

Nobody still sees the point of the whole thing.

You look for people on the internet who you dont know, to be on a life boat with as you described, you are entrusting people you dont know with your life, an IM the lonely one?

nobody off line would go on a lifeboat with you?

Well, Wait till you meet them. Many people have fallen in love online even though they never met, they might be people worth talking to if you believe these people REALLY care about you.

Get a life nutjob.

Mike Z,

you're absolutely right. I can't help staying involved - in spite of what I said, inconsistency and human nature, you know - because I feel it could be me. I too have strong feelings about my music, as I'm sure you have. And it means the world to me, when someone, here or there, tells me something like "this is better" or "I liked that", I sometimes need to take a seat, no matter how small the improvement. And I just don't know if I could handle the idea of never being able to write a better song than my last one. This guy, Jersey, doesn't realise I tried to help him because he's a FELLOW songwriter and I feel for all the songwriters in the world, good, bad and average.

Hey, Jersey - I'm sure to get one there, he asked me to shut up - have you had a look at my avatar? Is is a warplane dropping bombs or what? Never mind, you're far away, dude.

I see your "made up" point. Insider clique versus the outsider. Get over it. (The problem you have with that is that it's really for the most part in your head.) I don't think you see the point. That yann gave you a pretty good critique. So what if he didn't like a word.

why dont you get over this post and move on? dont you have the same choice? I dont recall calling for your two cents.

Who said anyone ever gave you a choice? That's the beauty of discussion boards they tend to breed discussion after you post something. You asked for everyone's two cents.

ok, my bad, here is your two cents back. now move along

Am I being ignored, Jersey2008?

I need that insult!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=908220

You keep dodging the point:

Word usage is contextual.

Admit to the possibility that in some songs, a certain word like "baby" may work...while in other songs, a certain word like "baby" may not work.

You, yourself must admit that this is true, that words can be good or bad, depending on the context in which they are used.

And since this is true, your beef with Yann is ridiculous, because he was NOT being biased, he was simply seeing how your word/line fit into your work as a whole, and giving his OPINION on that, and then seeing Joice's use of the word within the context of her piece, as a whole, and giving his OPINION on that.

The fact that you STILL have not addressed this speaks volumes to me.

Your argument is faulty. Admit it. There is such a thing as CONTEXT, and you continue to ignore this.

Yes, you did, disgraceful man, when you posted your song for critique. I'm still here to appreciate the difference between your posts and the others. My pleasure is to read the others, not yours, I'm never happy in the company of people like you.

No, jmsocia (man or woman?), I didn't take offence. Even the Jersey boy didn't give me more than a few supplementary heartbeats, with all his nastiness.

By the way. Yann still gave you a pretty good critique. So what was your point again?
And nahhhhh I'll keep my two cents in.

ok pal. I dont want you to lose your love for the board, I realize it;s important to you. And I certainly dont want you be unhappy.

I'll remove myself from the board. ive moved on before, I can do it again.

Yet another board fails to capture my essence.

Whats left?

I still think it's a Columbia University sociology experiment.

Or an American Repertory Theatre performance art piece.

Does the "RUDE POLICE" ever monitor threads on JPF like other sites? Each new person he draws in is chastised the instant they come on. Clearly with HIS mindset, there will be NO satisfactory response! He's probably toying with us ALL trying to outdo the Guiness Book of World Records for number of,....What was this thread about??

Droptine (Still Embarrassed!)

Crits are like a box of.......yeah, you know.

It's always true, however, that you never know what you're going to get.

As a lyricist myself, I tend to look more closely at the spirit within the story, than at the mechanics of how it's written down.
Most of my crits reflect that, and may not contain any reference to the rhyme scheme or meter.

I have also co-written a number of lyrics with some of these very same people, I do know that even if a crit doesn't look like what you want it to, no one is honestly trying to discourage you, it's just a matter of perception.

Take it like it comes, and learn from it.

You, yourself must admit that this is true, that words can be good or bad, and 'work' or 'not work', depending on the context in which they are used.

Otherwise, you are faced with absurd examples of your theory, such as "if one rails against the word 'baby' in one critique, one must ALWAYS rail against the word 'baby', in ALL ctitiques."

Do you not see the absurdity of such a statement?

I challenge you to answer this, instead of talking about my choice of lifeboat company. It's good to know that, in your false assumption that I have no friends or loved ones to take on the lifeboat with me, that you would choose to laugh at me instead of finding compassion. This tells me a lot about you, as a human being. I, personally, feel sorry for you, because it must be very lonely, being you.

I chose fellow JPFers in the lifeboat because they were folks that were trying to talk some sense into you. I was making a point about human nature and "trust" and that I DO trust them, and DON'T trust you, because I DON'T know you, but this is all beside the point.

I challenge you to answer to the "context" issue.

Don't feed the animals!

We are all in this together Yann. We on this forum are all here to both give and accept help and advice. We generally do it in a civilized and polite way. We may have little differences of opinion every now and then but we still respect and value each other and know we can turn to anyone here for help and advice.

Jersey on the other hand does not need or offer help. He by his own bragging admission is a better writer and performer than all of us put together and his tirades and childish playground insults help nobody including himself.

Unfortunately he cannot see it. HE IS TOO STUPID.

He called you a troll. We all know what a troll is and who the troll actually is. We should all forget about him and his stupidity. Let's concentrate on writing songs, helping people who actually want help, or ask people for advice when we need it

I knew I liked you Jim. Hear hear to that.

Mark, that's hysterical.

Thanks, I needed that.

Mike

Actually Jersey IS the same idiot from both the musesmuse and here. The fact that, anonymous coward that he is, he lied and said he wasn't the same guy, and the fact that he IS an anonymous poster here means he gets to go away...forever.

He picked a bad time to be an idiot being as I am not in the USA (in Dublin at the moment heading tomorrow to Limerick I believe), and I have anything but time to deal with nonsense.

To anyone I have one statement to consider: "Oh my gawd.. someone is WRONG on the internet!!!!" Sounds stupid eh? Please apply it here.

Bye Bye Jersey idiot.

Can the rest of you please get back to something fun or at least useful.. way too much time and effort has been spent here.

Brian

Thanks, Brian




redwing

Wow! That was fun. Glad I got to read that one. That' pretty great Kaufman! LOL!

At least we didn't get into the "I'm the world's greatest writer and pretty soon the whole world is gonna know it. My face is going to be plastered all over the world." Those are the really good ones.

MAB