JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Big Green Tractor Proves It's Not What You Write?

As many writers get critiques, (some pay for them!), on certain rhymes not being true ones, and to dig deeper, and all that comes with detailed critiques,,,,,,have any of you gone through the lyrics to the NUMBER ONE COUNTRY SONG, "Big Green Tractor", line by line?

What does it prove? Work on getting relationships?

Congrats to Jason Aldean of course. His 3rd number one hit.

If that lyric was put up here from any one of us last year, would it be suggested to rewrite several or more lines? Would some of the rhymes be viewed as lazy, easy attempts?

Do you have lyrics that are similar and have been told they are not polished, or have rhymes that need to be more true, or whatever? Or some of the words are too corny? Are writers too focused on line by line perfect writing, and less on making business relationships?

Why I made this post: To see how you would critique that lyric, (not thinking it's already a number one of course). No one really knows why people buy certain songs and not others. And to know if you get hammered for not having mostly true rhymes. (Country Songs). It seemed to me that lyric critiquing can really get intense, and focuses on details like viewing them with the Hubble. DO YOU FIND THIS TRUE, and DOES IT BOTHER YOU IF SO? (when hearing lyrics that didn't have to be as perfect in many ways as what you are being told)?

"Big Green Tractor", by Jason Aldean
She had a shinny little beamer with the ragtop down
Sitting in the drive but she wouldn't get out
The dogs were all barking and a wagging around
And I just laughed and said yall get in
She had on a new dress and she curled her hair
She was looking too good not to go somewhere
Said what'cha wanna do baby I don't care
We can go to the show
We can stay right here

And I can take you for a ride on my big green tractor
We can go slow or make it go faster
Down through the woods and out to the pasture
Long as I'm with you it really don't matter
Climb up in my lap and drive if you want to
Girl you know you got me to hold on to
We can go to town or baby if you'd rather
I'll take you for a ride on my big green tractor

We can fire it up and I can show you around
Sit up on the hill and watch the sun go down
When the fireflies are dancing and the moon comes out
We can turn on the lights and head back to the house
Or we can take another ride on my big green tractor
We can go slow or make it go faster
Down through the woods and out to the pasture
Long as I'm with you it really don't matter
Climb up in my lap and drive if you want to
Girl you know you got me to hold on to
We can go to town baby if you'd rather
I'll take you for a ride on my big green tractor

Just let me dust of the seat
Put your pretty little arms around me
You can climb up in my lap and drive if you want to
Girl you know you got me to hold on to
We can go to town or baby if you'd rather
I'll take you for a ride on my big green tractor
We can go to town or we can go another round
On my big green tractor

Well, for one thing John it may be kinda key that "Its his
THIRD NO 1 HIT".
People in that position can do a lot of things WE can't do, WE probably couldn't even get it listened to or read through.
Just my 2 cents--I'm sure you'll get lots of responses <G>
Wy

I haven't heard it yet, but I will probably be biased since I know it is a #1.

First of all the artist is probably a co-writer so it goes to the head of the class immediately. There aren't too many songs about taking a pretty girl in a BMW on a tractor, so you get points there.

The words seem a to have a good cadence to them, in fact these line cry out to be sung.


Nothing stood out to be awkward,except for maybe "And I just laughed and said yall get in" -- but I bet that's a semi-talking line. Plus it contrasts the "wouldn't get out" phrase.

All in all, it looks pretty good to me. Sounds like it must be an uptempo, honky-tonk type tune (of course, everything I read these days I sing to Glyn's and my new song, Countrified Man" - LOL!).

The message I hear from MAB and other mentors here is to take a simple tale and make a twist on it so people can remember. Trying to impress a pretty, rich girl with your tractor? That's a twist.

Let me go find it and listen and then I'll report back.

Kevin

It's a lot slower than I thought it would be -- great chorus. Probably co-written with Jeffery Steel or what's that other big name???

Nope it was written by Jim Collins and David Lee Murphy. See what I know???

Kevin

First off the song is "Big Green Tractor".

Second off, without getting involved in any critique of the lyric I'll flatly deny that it proves anything of the sort. (I know you phrased it as a question, John) I could point any number of hits over the years that have had not only amateurish lyrics but even flat out nonsensical, gibberish lyrics. The only point made by any of these examples (with regards to your question) is that there is much more to a song than lyrics... but did anyone ever doubt that? Very few songs have so powerful a melody, backing and production that they can thrive without a coherent lyric.... but it DOES happen. It does not in any sense mean the lyric doesn't matter for thousands of other songs... In fact couple the inexorably catchy groove of one of these nonsensical songs with a powerful, compelling lyric and then you have the potential of a classic. The other day I saw a youtube of the vocal version of Chuck Mangione's "Feels So Good" (which was awful - did you even know the song had lyrics?). I think that's one fine example of where a lousy lyric would have impeded any success for the piece... but that does not in any way prove that songs don't need lyrics at all... We former philosophy professors used to teach our classes about a logical fallacy called "hasty generalization." Your post's question implies such a hasty generalization - although the fact that you phrased it as a question is a get out of jail free card

Um,...John?

Go write a song mate, and stop wasting your time commenting.

If those dudes can do it, good luck to them.

Good luck to the green tractors.

cheers, niteshift

I think "Big green tractor" is a very good lyric! But a lyric alone doesn't make a hit song. You seem to reduce the lyric to be the only success factor here, and this has other things going for it as well.

Some might be business relationships, but even the best of those can't force an audience to buy music!

I think what makes this song great is the freshness of Aldean as an artist, as well as great phrasing done with just the right attitude. It really not things (like lyrics, instruments or virtuoso techniques) that connects with people - but other people.

"Big green tractor" just has a great flow to it, and both lyric, artist and arrangement has a certain freshness about it, that the country market has been looking for. It's the 'next big thing', to paraphrase a great guy on these boards :-)

Those things combined, is what works here IMO

It means they are making enough money to sit eight big Green Tractors all over music Row to congratulate Jason on being at Number one for three weeks. About a $20,000 stunt.

You can't analyze these things in a vacum. First of all you have to understand that ALL music is done by committee. There have to be a LOT of people to sign off on this to do a promotional push, About $100,000 gets this song out there and in the arena. You can't force people to buy records. So it tested well and Jason LOVED it. That is first and foremost.

And yeah, David Lee (a friend of mine) wrote Dust on the Bottle, Party Crowd, and dozens of other songs. Same with Jim Collins (another friend.Sounds like this came out of another three hour "thinking session" at Mojo Grill on Division St.)so yeah, they have track record. Jason has wanted to do some songs very different than other stuff he has recorded. When they first started talking about this I can bet you "International Harvester" was happening and somebody was saying "Man, I wish I had one of those!" It was just one of the many songs they probably wrote in that time period.

But what are we talking about in country?


#1 Conversational in tone. YEP
#2 Reality based? Yep
#3 Great melodic hook. I believe so.

So you have to factor in a lot of things outside of just looking at a lyric and saying "Well, I don't think this is very good." apparently when it comes to the country market, you are in a minority. It is selling records, been at number one for three weeks, video is talked about by a lot of people and of course every other Nashville writer are pulling out their songs about combines, flat bed trucks, back hoes, and bulldozers, and a million other songs about "farm implements".

Instead of denigrating this or any other song, might be good to study the form, the structure, watch audiences and try to find a hook which might be the next big thing. Who knows what farming utensil will be next?

MAB

Oh yeah, I forgot one thing.

David Lee Murphy IS A FARM Boy. He used to have a bumper sticker on his truck that said "My Other Car is a John Deere"

MAB

A couple of great follow up titles could be

Big Barn Brawl
That Hickory is an old Oak (hey, Im actually writing on this)
Haystack' Honey

Guess I've forked the wrong one..

Need to improve my pickin', but KOS if you're going there, John :-)

I wonder if "Country Music" influences Tractor sales!? Jason should probably get a little "kickback" for the publicity! SMILE

Droptine ( Farm Boy who LOVES green tractors,...BIG or little! )

Ah well,
Went and listened to a bit of it. I give it one and a half stars out of four. BUT, those guys CAN take those Green Tractors and plow up a bit of turf and plant something! Well I do have a song Entitled BIG PLANS. Hummm.

oooh, oooh, oooh -- glynda and I have a new farm song. We can add a tractor in there.

I think it is better than 1 1/2 stars, Ray. The chorus is pretty dang good. But this song really isn't aimed at us -- it is aimed at the country music record buying crowd.

Wait, that's me -- I pay for Rhapsody, I can download it legally anytime I want.

Kevin

Why would they do they do this? There's obviously some PR but for whom?

Of course, I don't know who did it--the publisher, the record company, the PRO, the artist's management, all of them, or someone else and none of them. But what is the point?

Are they trying to entice fans to buy the record? I don't know if that works in Nashville (or anywhere else).

Are they trying to entice artists to look for songs by the same writers?

Are they trying to entice writers to sign up with the same PROs or publishers?

Are they trying to entice consumers to buy tractors or green paint or buy farms or what?

Just wondering.

first off I like the song.... my understanding is that the writers went 'back to the well' for this one... had a hit with another tractor song and thought lets try again and lo and behold it worked

and do you think that guitar player has ever listened to clapton before? holy hell is that lick a clapton lick

sausage... my guess would be they are advertising to artists saying my company had a hit come get your next one here.... smart if you ask me.... plus the current artist likes being made a big deal of

The only green tractor that I know of is a John Deere (actually it's green and yellow). They own a patent for that shade of green. A commercial for John Deere maybe?

"You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" mentions John Deere.

How about a song about a Hoyt Clagwell? Or an Allis Chalmers? (There is a song called "Sweet Allis Chalmers"), they are now called Agco Allis, and are mostly red.

Just my two cents on tractor songs, back to the debate.

Sausage,

I wrote a big one on this a while back but will do it again. My Internet connection was lost.

The Tractor stunt is one of many that happen all the time in Twang town. Each week there is a new number one and there are the customary parties, billboards, congratulation signs outside the publisher's offices. It is kind of one ups manship and show business.

The first word in "Show Business" is "Show". But there is more to it. Those tractors will probably be picked up on newscasts on the 5:00 news in Boise Idaho, Roanoke Virginia, Des Moinse Iowa, and even make the UK, and other markets worldwide. They will end up on Leno, Conan, Fox News, CNN, Entertainment Tonight, etc.

That will raise attention in other genres that might not have happened. There will also be advertising on Billboards, magazines, Internet, all markets. So some stunts lead to cumlative effect within a lot of sources.

So the answers to all your questions are YES.

Does it bring attention to CD sales? Yes.
Does it bring attention to the company for other writers? Yes
Will it improve tractor sales? In this market, you hope for anything.
There will be a million tractor tie ins. Jason will drive some onstage. There will be little tractors in goodie bags for radio promotions.
John Deere will do tie in's in a million ways.

It is paid by the record companies, publishing companies, management, etc. And, like everything, ultimately it is paid for by the artist. It all gets charged to him.

This is Show business. That is why it is done.
A $20,000 stunt pays off in about $2 million in free publicity.

MAB

Will it help tractor sales? (Around $60,000 for a new two wheel drive farm tractor). I don't know.

I sold farm tractors (Agco Allis) and an assortment of used tractors in the late 90's. I doubt that people can afford it just from a whim.

no but remember john deere makes lawn mowers to... talk about free publicity...
and as far as the artist..who doesnt like a big deal being made about them... even if they are paying for it

I like what he's written and how it comes over ... it's fun, well written and clever... remember the rules are only a guide.

here here nigel.... its a fun easy listen....

All I can say, is that if you're in a position to do crazy PR stunts, and can get away with it, then good luck to ya. It's all a bit of fun, the detractors of the tractors are just plain jealous.

cheers, niteshift

Hold on there fellow JPFer's!

Let me clear my point up, (and properly name the song, Big Green Tractor). Probably had that line, "Little Green Apples" floating around to misname this song. Sorry. I edited my post.

Main points I thought could be discussed, from hearing Big Green Tractor, and knowing it was number one:

1> Do any of you experience getting hammered for not having mostly true rhymes in Country songs?

2> If so, discuss.

Thanks.
John

PS. Nitehift, are you "that" pissed? I think anyone can bring up points for discussion about lyrics, or music, or anything on this music site. Yes?, No? [Rhyming points for discussion as it relates to getting critiques].

John Deere makes a superior farm tractor, maybe the best. They also make great heavy equipment (which is painted yellow), but their home lawn equipment leaves something to be desired.

Their mowers break down and parts often fail. That division of the company needs improvment.

I thought John Deere Green was one heck of a great song by one of my favorite writers.

Actually, John, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already written "Little Green Tractor" as a parody/takeoff. Probably have the video concept of some really old guy riding around on his riding lawnmower picking up little old ladies

Scott

John.

It often depends on the song. We have gotten more and more away from "true rhymes because we have developed a more conversational tone.24 hour television, internet have put us in a more realty based, visual furniture and the rhymes that fit the attitude of the singer.

For me, I like a near rhyme much better than true rhymes because it helps in what I call "Elbow moments" where you hear a rhyme and want to hit your friend in the ribs with an elbow and say "Did you hear that?"

One of the tricks I would suggest is not to put three in a row true rhymes. It tends to sound like Dr. Suess. "I do not like Green eggs and ham, do not like them Sam I am.' My general rule of thumb is that if you can read it without sounding foolish without any music, you are probably in good shape.
You should try a few different rhymes both true and near rhymes and see what works out. Give yourselves some options.
Most of the current songs have a variety of perfect and near rhymes. As I always try to say,

"When you can see your reflections in your gold and platinum records, you can do anything you want. Until then, try to find a popular method and stick close to it."

MAB

Thanks Marc, for explaining what is going on now in terms of rhymes. Before, I would read critiques of many writer's lyrics, and it seemed they got lessons on how to rhyme in a true, (perfect) way, which had me think about that when hearing "Big Green Tractor".

Ok,,,so to reviewers here on the lyric boards,,,,cut those folks some slack when they are using "near" rhymes!

Thanks Marc!

You might have something there......(Viral Video)?

Get the pencil going! Maybe the other guy or gal hasn't made it public yet.

I love how an artist and producer can just decide to make a big, rockin', great song...and not have to worry about filters like perfect rhymes!

I think the near rhymes is okay, because what drives this song is the sentiment.
Most guys can't afford a BMW - it's way out of the ball park. And to have the little guy succeed in the big world, it's a good thing. The way the economy is, for the poor man to win the rich girl, it's a positive good feeling. I think positive good feeling songs are much needed in these times.
Kudos to the writer!
My old Ford tractor was rusty and wouldn't even run. That's why I'm not successful.

Ethan,

How's it going on the cross country tour dude? Hope to catch up with you when you are in Nashville.

A lot of things have to do with the artists personality. Jason Aldeen, like so many artists of today were influenced more by Garth and people ten to fifteen years before them than they older Marty Robbins, and Porter Waggoner styles of country. So big bold rockin' songs are in their genetic make up.

So you will find these elements that come through in modern country music. The number one essential element? Passion and energy. That is what you are seeing a lot of in modern country, particularly when people get into the whole "It don't sound like country to me..." Dialogues.

All of these things come into play. Subject matter, attitudes, near and perfect rhymes, song craft, follow through, production, etc. It all kind of comes together. So many times when you hear the "How did that get on the radio?" stuff, you have to look past just the song.

From our points of view John, that is much of what the "passes" on what you might hear from evaluators and workshops. If we took some songs by themselves and attached the "Music Row" test, some of the songs may not pass. But when you factor things in like previous track record, which brought in money, personal preferances from artists, and that all undefinable "IT" factor, you get songs that sometimes defy description.

I feel this song is well written and well executed in the context of the times, the current state of country music and in the eyes and ears of the consumer. At the end of the day, that is what matters.

MAB

I'm all stiff from loadin' up my Small Red "Cletrac Model F" Tractor & Parts onto a flatbed bound for Missouri yesterday..but herewegoo... I think the Song works WELL, Warts-&-All, 'cuz the Country Boy Gets-The-Girl & beats out the City Guys by the last reel. Bounces along smoothly-enough..just LIKE a Tractor should..& NashCity always DID need more "Tractor Songs" after crap like "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy". (Tho I Think "John Deere Green" made up for that'n already~)

For me, the song's kinda Weak Point is in explainin' WHY she's there in her beemer, all dressed-up. But who CARES as long as the Country Boy's all Smiles & a-Grinnin'-Away by Song's End?

Those Promo Stunts sound like Real Good Fun, too...BTW, Marc!

Best Wishes,
Stan

Stan,

Tell you a little story about that. A while back I was talking to one of the writers of "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy." Incidentially, they thought it was a pretty goofy song to, and were pretty surprised by the response. But what you gonna do.

Any way he and his friend were playing golf one day. There were two of them and two other guys signed up for a tee time about the same time. So they asked if they could all just do a foursome. Sure, no problem.
As the day went on the two younger guys kept talking about the music business and how much it sucked. With each hole they kept ragging on how much crap was on the radio, including that garbage "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy." The two older guys didn't say anything. The two young guys were new to town, had been there about a month and just got louder as the holes went on. Older guys never said a word.
Finally as they finished up on the 18th one of the younger guys introduced himself and said "We didn't even catch you guy's names or what you do." The older guy said, "We're songwriters." "Oh really,"said the young guy. "nything we might have heard?"
"Yeah," said the older guy. "She Thinks my Tractor's Sexy." Gotta be careful in Twang Town. You never know who you are sitting next to.

I don't really rag on songs like that. They got there somehow. A lot of people had to like them and put their reputations and money behind them. And there are other songs like "I'm moving On" that have to fight every step of the way. If they get out there you just have to say, "oh well, and move on to the next one."

MAB

The view I'm coming around to is that there are writers who have written classic books and there are those who have written comic books.

The latter probably make more money.

And I sometimes think they have done as much as the former to advance the human race.

Scott

Well, just getting done paying off everyone (ex-wife, sitter, roommate) and everything (car) to get it rolling. I leave in a week - much lighter in the pocket! Who am I kidding - the broke-fast diet worked for me!..

I'm targeting the 10/18 Doak Turner potluck and also looking at an evening/night stopover on 10/21. Would be happy to hook up with ya.

-Ethan

Ethan,

I'll be there. Let us know if there is anything you need. When you are coming to a town on your way, drop a line so we can see if I know anybody there. My private e-mail is MBarne4908@aol.com. A lot of time I am in contact with people in different towns or have encountered them in my travels. Never know what I can do, but will try to help when I can.

Scott,

As a writer we should be doing all of it. We should have songs about common things, tractors are one they picked. Back in the 70's there were all those cute little titles, "If I said you had a beautiful body would you hold it against me?" Kind of things. In today's world we are trying to find some common thing and then find a different way to say it. This tractor song is one of those. Object we see all the time yet put in a different context. That is what I see as the current and future trends. Pick and object we are all familiar with or a senario we are in and find a different way to say it.

MAB

Cool Marc, appreciate it!

I *will* be looking for a couch to crash on both of those nights (18th and 21st). I can use Couchsurfing.com to line that up, but would be great networking to hang with a songwriter or someone like that instead..

-Ethan

I LOVE the way that lyric is put together.... I love near rhymes and VISUALS..... I think its grreat because it's country boy, country life, yet very sexy.

But I DO know what ur talkin' bout as far as lyric critiques.... sheesh.... its all in who u know.

"Big Green Tractor Proves It's Not What You Write"
I very much disagree with the very thought of this post.
I love this song.

Also, since it hasn't been mentioned, this is Jim Collins 2nd "Number 1" tractor song.

Post deleted by Mike Caro Substudio

"Tripp's Over The Shoulder Comment", what a great post, thanks Mike

Whenever we discuss a #1 song that we think would get ripped up on a songwriting forum--be it "Big Green Tractor" or "Lollipop"--I always lose a little faith in critiques.

I think critiques are an essential part of gaining perspective on our songs...but we also need to ask ourselves: are we critiquing what's marketable, or what we think is a songwriting ideal? Because oftentimes, those ideal, perfectly written songs wouldn't sell 50 copies in the real world.

We can criticize the writing or public taste all we want...but if we can't recognize why a hit song is smoking hot and selling like crazy, then maybe we're not seeing things the way they really are.

I'm not talking about anyone on this thread, by the way...I'm talking about myself!

I gotta keep remembering, the public doesn't give a rip about a perfectly written song...they just want to hear something cool!

Mark,

As amateurs, we are critiquing against the "songwriting ideal". Of course , if it sounds really cool then that works, too. If one of us had posted "big green tractor" we would be falling over each other telling the writer how cool the production was and how big and wonderful the chorus was. We would also be complimenting the cool rhymes and story. We would also point out a flaw or two.

Kevin

I agree, Kevin.

Sometimes I think that songwriting ideal is a lot like the perfect classroom English composition...the A+ often goes to the brainy nerd...but the wild one with the mistakes is often a lot more interesting. What's really hard to account for is that "special something" factor...and there is just no way to describe what that's gonna be from song to song.

I think the best would be if the brainy nerd collaborates with wild one, long distance of course, so no one have to take each others crap!

But relations as different as you draw them up, Mark, would be hard for both to endure.

I can't remember a song on any recent commercial charts that are more interesting because of mistakes, though.. do you have an example?

Would that be kind of an "opposites attract" sort of thing? It's worked in many other relationships. The introvert calming the extrovert, the extrovert loosening up the other. Could be a good concept!?

Droptine

I like Lollipop... I love how the rime scheme changes as the verse changes ....

keeps coming back to write what works and don't get hung up on rules or convention... conventions and knowing the rules and why they are rules can only make you a better writer, cause then you can look at what you've done and decide which truely expresses the sentiment you want to express in a way the listeners can empathise with...

Same with critiques... look at what they say and why and then make your decision about weather you need to action....

Cheers all