JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Tips for getting played on Radio?

Does anybody have any tips for getting played on radio? I've already execised all my network contacts.

Artist,

In this day and age, mainstream airplay with their 18 song play lists (18 songs an hour with commercials) unless you are on a major label (primary advertisers with Radio) you are out of luck.
In secondary markets, (under 10,000 watts) you have some chances, local and regional marketing is not out of the question. College, Internet, and Satelite radio are just about the only games in town. With pod casting, every one is their own radio programmer.
The most viable market in this day and age, but also being used in conjunction with video is You TUBE and My Space. People are getting millions of hits on there. Although there was a story about two weeks ago where some new black female artist (I can't remember her name) recieved over 20 MILLION hits on her You Tube site, and the writers of the song had not recieved one Penny in royalties.
We are in a different age now. Getting radio airplay is tricky, if not impossible to get, without some pretty big guns involved. And it is not just a question of money or payola. There are a LOT of record companies that have thrown MILLIONS at some artist or act that simply didn't sell anything, (Can you say Jessica Simpson?)
The best process is probably, get a product together, start locally, conquer that, build a following, expand to a regional following, conquer that, make forays into higher and higher profile. All it takes is building an enormous fan base. That is where the Internet can help you. Getting paid for it is often a different matter altogether. If you make money for others, hopefully you will reap the rewards. Unfortunately that is not exactly a given these days.
It is the age old quandry. "How do you get a job without experience, how do you get experience without the job?" The new age is 'How do you get a following without radio, how do you get radio without a following?"

Good luck,

MAB

I already know that the Internet does not convert music to money very well and a friend of my was Marketing Director at TVT Records in NY. She had 100 interns pounding downloads on Myspace all day long in the hope that PDs would sense that something good was afoot.

The whole industry simply can't be closed to new music!?

Or CAN it?

Sure it can. I could tell stories--but then I'd sound like one of them troglodyte-type guys. I better not. Question may be whether there's a way to do what you want to do without dealing with commercial radio at all.

Joe

Hey Artist,

Can you get commercial airplay ? You sure can, but it's exceptionally difficult. Assuming that your material is commercially viable, as good as the rest, and passes the bar, then it's a matter of marketing, and damn hard work.

Having not done this for over 10 yrs, I thought I'd give it a shot with my last released single.

Total result ? A grand total of 5 commercial stations picked it up. One in the Caribbean, one in Brazil, two in Germany, and one in Russia ( hopefully ) All commercial, and what would be referred to middle level players.

So, is that success or not ? I don't really know, but what I do know, is that if those 5 stations played it only once, then in the space of 4 minutes, 500,000 + people have heard the tune. If they play it only once a day for a week, there's a listen of 2.5 million. Much, much better than internet streaming. The two really aren't comparable.

So, this small success came about after thousands of emails ( directed, not spam, and only to genre specific stations and industry folks ) , 1 press releases using 5 different PR services( including RSS XML feeds ), internet advertising on one music site ( a freebie contra deal ) , 3 reviews on music blogs, a website to collect the traffic and analyse the stats, a distribtion point, and about a month of solid work, day in ,day out, in front of a computer screen. Radio programmers need to see web presence. When they type in the name of your song, or the artist, in a search engine, does it come up on the first page ?

I don't know if it was worth it, but it sure was a lot of fun. And the process the second time around is much, much easier, going over the mistakes previously made. I'll let you know how the next one stacks up.

cheers, niteshift

Depending on your territory, you may also get some mileage by going through a plugger (which is what the majors do as well). I'm using a plugger to promote my new album to Dutch radio stations, when it comes out later this year...

Downside: it's certainly not cheap!
Upside: she has connections with editorial staffs that I don't have, so there's a bigger chance of cutting through the noise.

I know that all of the big local stations here are owned by large media organizations. The programming is not done locally but by their national headquarters. We are trying to get some of the small local stations to play Justice's songs, but it is uphill.

Tom

Too right there Tom.

I stay clear of the large media corporates. ( And you can always tell, as the webpage you're directed to has half a dozen stations on it to start with ). If you're not a major corporate yourself, then they won't even look at you. Waste of time and effort. There is way too much cross-ownership, and way too much money involved from their advertisers to be bothered with untried, and untested.

A couple of good resources are Radio Locator , you can find web pages, and hence contact details. And Airplay Direct which you can use free for 3 songs, to use as a digital distribution service. It can also send out bulk, single, EPK's which saves a lot of time.

Good luck !

cheers, niteshift

In my experience, it's hard to get radio airplay of any kind unless you have a promoter working on your behalf. Ideally, you want a promoter specializing in your genre. My fiance, Jillian Goldin, utilizes the services of a promoter that specialized in New Age and World music (her genres.) The promotion campaign was a huge success - she got airplay on many terrestrial radio stations, XM, major internet stations, and so forth. Was it worth it, from a pure sales perspective? It's hard to say. It's a tough market, even for the cream of the crop.

Hey Andrew,

Yeah, gotta agree that if you can find a good promoter, who has the inside contacts, that's one big hurdle overcome. Problem is though, that they're up against huge corporations with very deep pockets.

I'm not so sure promotion is tied to sales in the beginning, it's more of an exposure thing, and hence an out of pocket expense. That airplay linked with a strong web presence should start to get things moving. And, as you've said, there's the cost. If the PR works, it's worth it for sure, but if it doesn't, then it's a big money burn.

Sidenote ; How did you find a promoter specialising in New Age and World ? Interesting and specialised genre.

cheers, niteshift

my radio presence have been very humble, but i've made a research of radio programs, not even the station but programs devoted to my genre.

I read terms like "Plugger" and "Promoter" which I think are interchangable?

Can I ask, what is the price range for these types of promotional services and did the cost of the service result in additional revenue from sales or increased visibility in the market place, or both?

Then, respectfully, she doesn't know the real music business. Many have been doing that false following thing since it began. Doesn't she think the PD's know of this in-house method? Downloads on those site are just about meaningless. So are the friend's thing.

Time should have been spent on obtaining artists who were already "working" on getting a valid following through their gigs and email lists, to then have real people buy their product.
(CD's and paid for downloads).

Having teens pound the download button is easy to do. Getting in the real music business is very hard to do. If it was easy, every download pounder artist would get their spins. (Old news as to why they don't).

I got some small market stations to play two songs. (Not as many as was reported though). That's a whole other story. Money was paid for radio promotion, to the tune of $12,000. One song was even given a good critique in a huge city paper in Philadelphia as "given the big boys a run for their money", And, it made the Potential hit list in his top 100. FMQB's Kal Rudman.

But, in the end, the big boys took all the spots up, for several reasons. No music business legs behind the song. Corrupt practices by the radio promotion, in my opinion, after the facts came to light. And not the right use of my recording in the first place. (Was more of an elaborate home demo that was not of the same quality media as the business was using). (Cassette multitrack portastudio as the master). But folks liked it enough. Not enough to buy it my the masses though.

For a local BIG station, they have what is called "Home Town Heros". There, anyone with a good recording and decent material, as judged by one man there, can get played in Sunday nights. Iggy has radio play there, as well as our band, and for the Opening Day Phillies song. If there were a flood of calls to the station, maybe they would play those songs more. Or, something could be done to keep the excitement up. BUT doing things like false fans is just not the way to go about it.

It takes dedication, perseveriance, money and time to learn what is actually needed. By the time we gain what we need, we're too old to be marketed!

Got to start very young and be music business educated, and have the drive to keep going and going, gaining fans along the way, a handful at a time. That's how the pounding thing comes in ,,,,handy!

John

Hey John,

So, was the 12k paid to a PR firm ? or used directly for radio advertising ? That's a big chunka change. I'm just wondering into whose pocket it went, and did you feel that the cost was justified.

cheers, niteshift

I couldn't agree with you more that's why it surprised me that a professional in the industry couldn't tell my how much money was spent per artist on marketing and the best resource for marketing was all the eyes on Myspace. Maybe that's why TVT Records filed for bankruptcy last year?

Paid to Loggins Promotions, (radio promotion).

NO,,,,in my and Bud's opionion, it was a rip off. Other artists contacted me seeing we were on their list, and told us they called radio stations who were supposed to be playing their song, BUT they station didn't even keep the song. ("Trashed" as would be said by some of the stations). So, I called the stations where our song was claimed to be playing in Loggin's faxes of his charts. "New Music Weekly". Most stations never heard of our song, and some said they got the CD, and others said they "trashed it". BUT,,,on the charts, Loggins had us passing Sir Paul McCartney in spins for his Run Devil Run song. (YEAH, RIGHT!) That's when we called Loggins and told of what we were finding. They denied everything and tried to calm us down to continue the promotion,,,(at 400 dollars a week).

Long story, but we had no more resource at that time to track that company or person down for legal purposes or personal ones of facing him to ask of his actions, or non actions. (being 3000 miles away. (We were so stupid and our eyes were just seeing stars at that time). The worst part of this whole thing was not anything to do with us, but for my sister, for it was her money and her try for us to get into the music business. We all though radio play would bring attention ot our music, for others to then cut and do it up right. (Thought as small market radio as a demo of sorts). Stupid for thinking that. And stupid for trusting a company not ever meeting with. We just didn't know how the music business worked. But we found out how some radio promoters work, that's for sure. The top guy in NY at the time later told us that he would NEVER had taken our songs on, for we were'nt a band, for one. Too old for another. And the recordings were of just good home demo qualty, and with no distribution of the professional kind behind us. No store placements other than locally. And generally, just a bad idea all around.

And, the worse is not even mentioned yet. For ALL the money was my sister's, who believed in us and our actions. She said we gave it a shot. I don't think she fully understands the thought of being ripped off, as she says it still could have receieved one listen from somebody who cold have done something! (Gotta love sisters). But we still feel bad for all the money gone, and she won't accept anything back.

Hi Artist,

Are you looking to get played on the radio stations for royalties, or are you looking for exposure?

The reason I ask that is many am/fm stations world wide, and internet stations will play your music, if you are willing to waive your royalties. Your going to have to make that choice a lot just starting out.

I did it a lot early in my quest. Royalties trickle in, and advertising is very expensive. The best form of advertising still today is word of mouth, but in order for people to talk about it, first they have to hear it.

You could go through the headache of doing a search of radio stations in your genre, trying to contact the station manager there to see if they would consider playing your music, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's very time consuming and the effort is not worth the end results. Not to mention it can become very expensive sending promo CD's to DJ's world wide, That may never see the light of day, let alone the airwaves. I know, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. If you can locate 3 or 4 hundred DJ's that would be willing to accept your CD, and give it consideration, you have to realize that the ones you sent out of the country would cost you about $4.88 for postage alone, thats not considering the cost of the CD, or the shipping materials. If just half of those 400 copies left the country, it would cost you over $1000 in postage alone! So whats a newbie to do?

I have spent the past several years learning to promote, and market my music using the internet. I am going to share with you what it took me a lot of money and time to learn.

First, there are no "FREE" rides. You still have to spend a little money to get the job done.

Second, the most cost effective, and efficient tool you can utilize for exposure and distribution, is a "GOOD" compilation CD. The keyword being good.

How do you know if it's good or not? Well, the better comps, and the one's the DJ's actually take the time to listen to, will ask you to submit an MP3 or a CD of the song you want to have included, they will evaluate it based on the sound, and the potential of the artist, if they find it acceptable, they will then take your money. Stay away from those that just ask you to send your song, and payment and they will guarantee you placement on the CD, I dont care if it's free, it's a comp you dont want to be associated with. Many comps out there are just looking to make a buck, they really aren't interested in promoting new talent. Some of the better comps will even contact the stations and keep track of the number of times your song was played, and even others are willing to get you feedback from the DJ's.

Another consideration should be the type of comp you get on. Some go out to only college radio, some go out to only Country, or other genres, and is it geared to the world wide market or just the national? Depending on your needs, one will fit you better than the other.

Something I always evaluate is the cost per exposure ratio. That is taking the number of stations it is sent to, divided by the registration fee of the comp. Another words, if the comp is distributed to 100 stations, and the cost to get on it is $100 dollars the cost per exposure ratio is $1.00, so you need to know what's the cost, and how many copies are distributed. If they tell you they aren't sure how many copies are distributed, I probably would opt out of the CD.

What's a reasonable cost? The fee for being added to a comp runs anywheres from $75 to $2000. Most times it depends on the number of copies distributed, the effectiveness of a particuliar comp, and who you might be on the comp with. I once was contacted by a promotion company here in Nashville who wanted to help me promote my CD. They had a comp that went out to 4 or 6 hundred Dj's, mostly college, and public radio stations here in the states. Some of the other artists on their comps included, Tim McGraw, Reba McEntire, and other big names. The cost was $1800. A little steep for my budget, but all in all a great oppurtunity.

I have an exclusive comp provider who distributes over 1400 copies, mostly to the european market, and it costs me $75 to put a song on the comp, average cost ratio = around .20 cents. They also track air play, get me feedback on my material, and they have 4 radio stations they air the song on that have about 200,000 listeners a day. You can't beat that exposure with a stick! They only do Country, Americana, and Christian formats. If I had to pay postage to send each of those DJ's a CD myself, the cost would be almost $10,000.00!

If your into another venue you might want to check out, http://www.cdregister.com . They are moderately priced and a popular comp.

One other format that is gaining in popularity today is a company called AirPlay Direct. You can submit I think up to 5 songs for consideration as a registered artist there, and they only allow verified DJ's or Radio Stations to survey and download songs. Each time a song is download they give you the station that downloaded it, and their contact information, so you can follow up with the station yourself if you want. It's all done digitally, so there isn't any expense to the artist or the stations. They also help you build a DPK to send out to radio stations that might have am ionterest in your music. Best of all it's a free service, nothing ventured, nothing lost.

Think I'll stop there, or you all wont have any reason to buy my E book...LMHO

Suffice to say artist, in todays environment, you have to be versatile, and learn how to distribute in many different ways.

I hope this helps you out, and good luck

Billy Darnell

Billy D,

I think it helps everyone interested in doing the same!

Then again, you could go the route I did, and get your own radio show!{BRILLIANT!!} www.classxradio.com

Than you Artist, I hope so. Thats what makes this place so special, people being willing to discuss and share.


Billy Darnell

Yes but what bothered me about that Bob, was a fairly unknown FTC law that prohibits any and all Radio Stations, including podcasts, and internet stations, from broadcasting more than 4 songs from any one particular artists during a show.

What constitutes a show? I am not sure, however, the fines for violating that law can range into the 10's of thousands of dollars, I decided not to test those waters.

That along with the fact that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other people doing exactly the same thing, once again you become a needle in the haystack. Most 360 radio stations that I talk to are thrilled to have 14 or 15 listeners an hour, and those that get big enough to get picked up by the itunes Radio network, only average a couple hundred or so listeners a day, seems counter productive to me.

But, to each his own, and it is another way of getting that start up exposure.

Billy Darnell

Hey John,

That's a tough story mate, but thanks for sharing it. $400 per week ?, geez, you'd really want some results for that. From a minor indie label, that would be a small amount, but from an individual, it's just not sustainable. It just re-iterates the point to be wary of anyone asking for money, where the results are not verifiable.

Hey Billy, I'm not too sure about these compilation things, they're usually placed in the circular filing cabinet, but if it's working, that's good. I don't know about the postage thing. Stations which requested my material, requested a 320k mp3 be emailed. Huh ? I thought it needed to be WAV, but apparantly through the broadcast system, these days, it's considered Ok. As a point of interest, have you phoned or emailed those particular stations to verify plays ? I kinda like the "independent varification" model, when there's money being forked out. $75 is not so much, but is it being well spent ? Gotta aggree there is no compariso between internet "broadcasters" and the real deal. Even one real station pick-up is worth 100 internet "stations".

Hey Bob, Play my damn song ! LOL.

cheers, niteshift

I find from talking to Dj's world wide, that your right to some degree. Most comps are aggravating, it's a very time consuming thing to try and listen to all the songs, on every comp that they get a month. That's why it is important to get on a "GOOD" comp.

All DJ's have 4 or 5 comps they look forward to getting, the other 35 or 40 get file 13'd.

As far as Mp3's go your right again, it is pretty much the standard accepted through email today. It has nothing to do with quality, it's just that most email servers reject anything over 5 to 10 megs, WAVs are 30 to 50 megabytes in size and so they are pretty much out of the question in most peoples inboxes.

I do try and stay in touch with a lot of DJ's but once again, numbers will kill ya...lol. I have a list of over 400 DJ's that play and promote my music world wide. Contacting them all on an ongoing basis would require my full attention so I try and rotate 40 or so a month.

However, there are other ways to evaluate the exposure your getting. I fall into the country category of music, here in the United States their are several charts to see if any of your songs are getting air play, the roots reporting system is most relevant to indie artists, in the European theater they have the ECMA ( European Country Music Association )that charts airplay of all country music ( it doesn't matter whether it's Garth Brooks, Brooks and Dunn, Carrie Underwood or Billy Darnell) played in about 15 countries I believe. They post a top 100 songs chart for Europe, and they post the top 40 charts of the countries they monitor. Oh, and they only survey Am/Fm stations.
Placing well on these charts can give you some real leverage when talking to publishers and labels here in the states.

You ought to take a look at them sometime. It will open your eyes as to how the big names here do on those charts when the labels aren't spending any money on promotion over there.

Last but not least , one problem with only emailing MP3's is that several markets in Europe, Australia, and Germany I believe are just two of them, are required under the Anti Piracy laws of those countries to have a hard copy of the music they air on the premises, and they are audited periodically by the government to insure compliance. If they are found to have violated that law, they can be fined thousand of dollars, and possibly lose their license to broadcast permanently, along with real jail time if it's blatant. So if that is all you are doing your missing out on a big part of the market share there.

That's is another benefit of putting all your releases on a comp. The comp provides the hard copy, and all you have to do is refer any one that needs a hard copy to the comp provider and they will send them one.

I think you would be amazed at the number of artists and songwriters actually mailing out CD's still yet today.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!


Billy Darnell

Billy,

Are you positive that you are quoting an actual FTC or FCC regulation? I'd love to see a copy of it, seriously? For my own information!

Everyone seems to make the same mistaken assumption. The restrictions I've researched only apply to qualification for Statutory Licensing under the DMCA. If you have direct agreements with copyright owners, these restrictions do not apply. Starting at the bottom of page four you can read more about Sound Recording Performance Compliment. http://www.pillsburylaw.com/content...53312/Webcaster%20Advisory%2003-2009.pdf

Hi Artist,

I wouldn't say I am 100% positive on that because I read it an article a while back, but I am pretty sure. The writer was some kind of law guru when it came to broadcasting. It has nothing to do with royalties, or the CRB agreement. It's more based upon a Fair and equal oppurtunity type thing. I got the feeling it had implications to the payola things that went on in the past, it was meant to insure no label, or promoter, was able to buy excessive air time for their artists. He was addressing concerns specifically about the "Spotlight" versions of some internet shows and Podcasts. Though it's a regulation that is not closely monitored, if it's brought to someones attention it can, and will be investigated.

I will try and see if I can find something on it, it's either an FTC,or FCC regulation.

Billy Darnell

Ok i found it, it is actually a copyright thing, go figure. I belie3ve this is what the man was referring to:

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/200...l-waivers-of-the-performance-complement/

Hope that helps.

Billy Darnell

If you look at this blog, you will see why I chose not to get involved in it. Its a nightmare, knowing the regulations, and keeping up with all the changes. You'd almost have to obtain a lawyer to keep up with just this facet, and keep you out of trouble.

That is why I don't recommend to folks going this route. For what little additional exposure it gives you, it's just not worth the aggravation, especially if you violate some obscure regulation.

Billy Darnell

You are right about the DCMA thing, you can get authorization from the copyright holders directly and for go the DCMA statutory licensing agreement.

Billy D,

I read the blog post at the link you posted and the play limitations referred to are in direct reference to qualifying for statutory licensing under the Sound Recording Performance Compliment requirements set out in the DMCA for digital performance. Some of those requirements are different for interactive and non-interactive streaming but that's a different story.

The key phrase being, qualifying for statutory licensing. If you have direct agreements with the copyright owners and you don't need to qualify for statutory licensing then the requirements don't apply.

Interesting, that none of this applies to live terrestrial radio broadcasts.

yes there are apparently two different standards being applied to internet broadcasters, and traditional radio.

Billy Darnell

Billy, I have a show playing all local {Cincinnati} music. I play one cut per band {my own stuff included} My last show we had 158 people online {we have an in-studio counter}plus all the people listening on conventional radio. I just think it's cool that I infiltrated the system and can not only play my OWN stuff but all my local musician friends as well!

Hi Bob,

Well your right it is pretty cool, and if it brings you joy, as it obviously does, that's even better. I imagine a local show like that, versus an internet type show, you can really have an influence and make a difference. Unfortunately those kinds of opportunities don't come along everyday, and not everyone has the tools, or the personality, to pull it off and make it work for them.It takes a really special personality to prosper in that environment.

I hope you didn't think I was demeaning your efforts when I said after looking at it, and crunching the numbers, I found it to be counter productive.I know many artists who do the internet thing, and the 360 radio structure, and it takes more than an hour a day to keep up with it, and it isn't something just anyone can do successfully. Some of them have actually managed to merge with other artists and make a pretty good stream of income from it.I just believe that most of us are better off spending that couple hours a day finding 3 or 4 more radio stations that will play our music.

I would be the first to tell you that if you find something that works for you, by god, stick to it. I think that's what makes advising others on the how to's of finding some degree of success in the business of today so difficult. The saying "One man's gold is another man's garbage" has never been truer, if you get my meaning. What works for some, may not work for others.If you find something that works for you, ride it till it dies.

Billy Darnell

Billy, I agree with you on both counts. I pretty much lucked into the radio gig {although if I didn't have the skills to sustain it, I wouldn't have lasted 2 years on the air!} I too have gone the route {as an "artist"} of internet airplay, and have gotten quite a bit of it,but the sad truth is that unless the "big boys" {i.e Clear Channel, Cummulus} are playing you worldwide your chances of stardom/income are pretty slim.

I've had some luck with a relatively new internet radio site called Jango, essentially "buying" new fans at $1 each and radio plays at 2 cents each. Full details are on my promotion blog here:

http://www.passivepromotion.com/jango

Brian.

COLOR THEORY
electronic indie piano pop

Brian Hazard = Color Theory
colortheory@colortheory.com
http://www.colortheory.com

Jango makes me curious? It cost $30 for 1000 plays or $.03 per song. That looks good on paper.

If 1,000 artists spend $30 they get a total of 1,000,000 plays.
My first question is what constitutes a play?

1. The number of times your song is played regardless of the number of people that listen to it or,

2. Every person that listens to your song is counted as one play.

If the answer is #2 then you pay $.03 for a potential new customer. Not bad if you convert one play to a sale! But, if 1,000 people listen to your song on Day 1 then there is no more repetitions left and on Day 2 it costs another $30 to get more repetitions. Depending how many people hear your song each day, you could spend a lot of money by the end of the year if you want serioius repetitions. Good for Jango?

If the average song is 3.5 minutes long and each of the 1,000 artists above get a total of 1,000,000 plays that translates into 3,500,000 minutes of play time, or 58,333 hours, or 2,430 days. Jango either has to have a lot of listeners or a lot of stations or a combination of both just to handle one song from 1,000 artists. If Jango has 1M listeners then one station works fine, but if they only have 100 or 1,000 listeners then they need a lots stations or lots of time to get through all the plays.

In short, the answer to your question is #2. They don't blow out all the plays in one day. I'm getting about 100 paid plays per day, and maybe 30 unpaid plays per day, since my songs are now in "general rotation."

The article explains it well if I do say so myself

http://www.passivepromotion.com/jango

Brian.

It sounds like they have created a successful business model.

They must have a lot of stations or a lot of listeners or both.

If they pay royalties on your behalf to SoundExchange you should be earning money so make sure to get registered there so you can collect what is rightfully yours. They will not try to find you!

Funny you mention that. I thought I was registered, but called them to make sure. They needed a change of address form. Turns out I'm owed $41, which is sadly more than I expected!

Brian.

For trying to get local stations to play a song, it coccurs to me that they need to have a reason that is in their best interests. Getting some local buzz about the song like a newpaper story about the singer - or a human interest angle. Maybe some sort of promotion that would benefit a local charity. Something that sets the song up as a local "image."

Tom

try talking to some college radio stations, they are usually down to support new artists. You can't look to get money from this, but hopefully exposure will lead to good things for you down the road..

Find a list of college stations here:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~ibs/Stations1.html