JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Love Rains Down - Allen/Kaufman/Caro/Wood - Updated

Hey all,

Update ; Mastered Final Mix ( 7.3 meg )

http://www.savefile.com/files/2069342

More info at the bottom of the thread.

Here's the final mixdown on a song which has taken a couple of months in the making. Pretty much finished now, so lets see how it flies....

Love Rains Down - Stream and Lofi Download ( Pre mix-master )

Love Rains Down (c) Allen/Wood 2008



Lyrics ; Letha Allen
Music ; Geoff Wood

Vocalist ; Letha Allen
Guitar ; Mark Kaufman
Keys/Programming ; Geoff Wood
Bass ; Mike Caro

Engineer ; Thomas Wind
Producer ; Geoff Wood


Love Rains Down

V1

I’ve walked this world, but not alone
I been to London, carried you along
and the rains in Africa, beat out our song
Rain

I’ve walked the heat of the desert sand
I’d cross an ocean to reach that land
And feel your love rainin down on me
Rain

Chorus

Callin me….
Home
No matter where I go
No matter how far
You’re leadin me home
With the beatin of your heart
Rainnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Aw your love rain down
Let it rain

V2

Crowded street, in East LA
Ah missing you , just one more day
And the city sweat makes me pray for rain
Rain

Across the miles, by land or sea
Close my eyes, your there with me
You burn in me, like the Delta heat
Rain


Chorus

Callin me….
Home
No matter where I go
No matter how far
You lead me home
with every beat of your heart
Rainnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Aw your love rains down
Let it rain

Instrumental


Ohhhh
(Let it rain let it rain let it rain)

Let it rain let it rain let it rain
Let it rain let it rain let it rain

No matter where I go
no matter how far
Your love rain down
hear the beatin of your heart
Rainnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Let it rain let it rain let it rain
Aw let it rain

Hey Nite,

I love this one! What a production!

This would make a great movie theme.

Best, John

wow, what an exciting piece of work, thanks for sharing it with us.

Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

I really like the song, but I don't like the production. There's a lot of nice ingredients in it, but they don't make for a very good pie. Perhaps there are too many ingredients? Do you really need that woodblock? Why is there a raspy acoustic buried in the mix - give us a full sounding one, or take it out!

Also, what genre is this? Letha's lead vocal feels very country, while the backing vocals scream gospel and the band bounces back and forth between rock and pop. I would decide which one you want to be in and adjust the arrangement to fit that style. Or make it purposely sound like a cross-over.

Technically, I'm thinking the lead vocal sits too much on top of the mix. I'm really missing unity here.

(as always, these are just my opinions... feel free to disagree :P)

John Thank you my friend. Never thought about the movie angle on this one, but I'll certainly keep it in mind. The more avenues the better.

Calvin Exciting ? Cool, I like exciting, cos most of the time I feel a little dull. Must be the introvert coming out. Thanks for the listen.

Jim Yeah, lots of ingredients here. The idea is to incorporate, musically he sounds of a traveller. The choir from St Martins, the distant busker, tribal percussive sounds from the Asia Pacific, sax from jazz bars, Latin percussion, guitar resembling a boarding call. Sort of like the background hum of a busy market. You're right about the unity, but maybe it's layering and dis-jointedness that I'm after. Tell the truth, I don't really know. Hey, you're lucky I didn't add the atonal wails from Africa/Arabia. Now they'd make your ears bleed. Thanks for taking a listen, and personally, I agree about the vocal line being too far up in the mix. I'll go back and pull it back a notch.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Niteshift

Lots of ear candy here --- I enjoyed it thoroughly --- I'd drop the backing vocals behind the chorus -- except for the rain part -- let the instruments speak there....

jm

Hey Joice,

Thanks mate. It's meant to be an ear candy piece, so am glad your ears had some sonic enjoyment.

Jim, took your advice. Slapped on the phones, pulled up the tracks, and it was quite obvious. Up with the acoustic, down with the lead vocal. Easy when you know how, and can see the forest for the trees. It gels much better.

Tracks are now updated if you'd like another listen.

cheers, niteshift

Hey, what happened to the Mongolian throat singer? And that guy who made those amazing sounds with his armpit? You must have ran out of tracks...

I didn't know Sub played bass until now!

Production sure works for me, Geoff. Sounds great. LOVE that sax solo.

Wow. That makes a world of difference! Much, much better! I'm impressed!

A few more nits:
- I think those distortion guitar chords ought to be a little softer
- Letha sings ahead of the backing vocals, specially in the first chorus; you might want to tighten that up a little more.
- Slick trick: pull open the reverb on that last time she sings "far" to reinforce the distance sonically!*

I still feel there's a few too many ingredients, but I suppose that's more of a taste thing now.

(*that's me pretending to be a producer ;))

Ok, I'm listening....

Distortion, you mean "softer" in tone or volume ?

I'm listening to that part now , Letha's lead, yes a little ahead.

Yes, and extend the "far". Can time stretch that, so that's cool.

At one time I could sit in the producers' chair, and the techo's would just do it. Alas, these days I have to play the engineers' role also, which is a lot of fun, but very draining. I'd thoroughly reccomend seperation. By that, I mean you can't write, play, engineer and produce the damn song by yourself because the critical decision making that is made by those who know best, is missing. But we'll give it a shot anyways.

Thanks mate,

cheers, niteshift

Nite: Sounds pretty good. I don't have much time at all, so I'll just point out one issue I heard (I'll try and come back later).

I listened 7 or 8 times to the beginning on headphones (even switching around left and right) and I couldn't ever understand the word "walked" in line one (at 0:20). Anyone else hear the same thing? Maybe it's OK on speakers. If you want to make it as good as it can be, you probably need to re-cut that.

Kevin

Hi all,

The improvements this mix are immense; I'm noticing a nice 'verbed out fuzz guitar or guitar sound that's pedaling "the one" that wasn't their before. Mostly you've cleared a nice path for Letha's vocals.

One thing I noticed that bothered me was that the "swirly ambiance" like a flute choir (convolution IR?), starting at around 1:16, has an unnatural sounding "fade", in that it's "killed" on the first downbeat of the next verse...it's there and swelling, then just cut at 1:20 instead of faded.

You like your teakwood sticks very dry and up there in the mix!

This time the ambitiousness is paying off, it's a beautiful song, nicely arranged. It still feels a little awkward, to me, when Letha comes back from the sax solo, though it's a nice solo and everything...

Great work all!

Best wishes,

Mike

Hey Kevin,

No probs mate. Noted, and I'll cut and paste a clearer articulation into that spot. Thank you.

Michael, yes, you're right. That's a keyboard swell, which mixes nicely with the bs'v, but cuts off too short. I'll go back and extend it, and play it through to the next bar. Yeah, maybe the sticks are a little high. I want'd to keep an "ethnic" undertone to counterbalance the choir thing. We've got the choir from St Martins in the Fields, London, and then also the Southern choir thing, so it's kind of an "offset".

I can't thank you guys enough. I've been real good with this one, have cut 42 tracks down to 24, but every track and every sound still needs it's place.

I've said this one was the final mix, but when very obvious technical points are noted, I take notice. Thank you.

cheers, niteshift

Hey Mark,

Missed you on a cross thread, but I PM'd ya !

Yeah, the armpit dude couln't make it. Ran out of deoderant. Who'd want to work with that dude in a recording studio with the air-con switched off ?

cheers, niteshift

nite, everyone

Wow, what an ambitious production!

It sounds like something BIG is cooking here, and I love the feel you are aiming for.

It seems you have a lot of great people in the team so I won't fiddle around with production comments, but when I listen it doesen't quite flow. I have tried to listen more closely, and have a hard time pinpointing what it could be, but maybe you automate the particular instruments with fade-ins/outs? Perhaps a slower fade-in/out in each case would make a difference? Perhaps it is the attack/release time on vst's if you use any?

It seems to me that the bass is the instrument that carries the arrangement, as it in my ears are the only one playing throughout? If so, I think it needs to be a little bit more forward in the mix, as this might contribute to the overall flow.

But beside this (probably) minor issue, this is a fantastic song, and an immensely ambitious production. It's fun to see that you guys have the stamina to carry something like this through..

BIG koudos to everyone involved!

Hi All,

This is just awesome, lyrically, musically, and the production ties it all together so well. Just a stunning effort by all of you. Knowing your track record, I'm sure there will be more mixes to come but this sounds great the way it is, but then, what do I know?

Ricki

I meant the volume (although a sweeter tone wouldn't hurt either)



No, don't time stretch. Just take the dial on your reverb (there is a reverb on the voc, right?) and automate it to go from 1 to 5. Oldest trick in the book, I think... check any Celine Dion record for reference (listen how the reverb grows whenever she sings a long vowel).



Yeah, wearing all hats is difficult at the best of times. I know how it is! Fortunately, there's always kind folk here who'll gladly comment on every facet of your production!

Magne Yeah, it's all about flow. Trying to get all the pieces to gel seamlessly, so at first listen it's simple, but then on second listen, it has depth for those that are interested. I've overlapped as much as I can. The mix is 24 track, pure sound, no VST's , so I can fade/overlap, where needed, but have to be aware of key change, which is a biggie. Yep, that bass just grooves right through and keeps the song together, as the instrumentation changes. You're right, it's a little back in the mix. I'll try some compression to tighten it, and see how we go. Flow ! Gotta keep that in mind. Thanks mate.

PS - Stamina ? Nope, that's just the work it takes to make a finished recording.

Ricki Watta you know ? Heaps mate. Wanna come and join the choir ? You're right. I was going to call this one quits, but there's been so many helpful ( and quite correct ) suggestions, I can't let it lie if it can be made better. I'm not called a knob twiddler for nothin'. Cheers.

Jim Sweeter distortion ? Hmm, I dunno, it's there to "rough" it up a bit and provide contrast. Thought I might try a couple of AC/DC licks...just kidding. I'll consider it though. Can't say I've heard of riding the reverb dial but it's a new one to add to the bag of tricks. I'm thinking it's basically doing the same thing, just extending the note, but I'll envelope it, automate it, and give it a try.

Yeah, too many hats. At one time, it was quite clear and concise. Everyone concentrated on their field of expertise and that meant great production. These days, you're meant to produce great sound on zero budget and get the same results. Bottom line is, you can't, without a great deal of help along the way. That's why I've got you guys ! Cheap at half the price, and probably with more combined knowledge than you could possibly pay for. Thanks.

cheers, niteshift

Knob twiddler.

Knobby.

Doctor Knobert.

He's heard 'em all.

niteshift,
Great piece of work, really nice production, so much going on in there but all coming through the mix nicely.

No nits for me that have not already been mentioned.

Well done all involved

Andy

Sounds good to me guys

nite and friends:

I really enjoyed the song and production. It had a true international flavor to it. I was surprised at some of the comments until I realized that I was listening to a later mix which addressed some of those issues. For me, there were times when the mix felt a little full but overall it worked. I espcially liked the percussion and the guitars.

Mark

I especially smiled at your thoughts Jim, because often I can't tell what in the world genre I am doing, lol. You sure did offer some good suggestions and we appreciate it.

Appreciate all you others who listened and offered your thoughts too. Niteshift is very good, but sometimes we burn out listening to our own songs after awhile and lose the objective edge...(talking about me too Niteshift, lol) and just need some fresh listeners to point adjustements that could make it better.

As for me, I might wish I would have left out just a couple notes with that "country" drawl, but if you are gonna travel all over the world you might as well travel the south too, lol.

Niteshift forced me to put the "Delta heat" in this, and it probably became my favorite line. Thanks Niteshift, lol.

Thanks again to you Mark and all,

Letha

Thanks eveyone for your comments.

The tracks are now winging their way to Denmark , to the mastering engineer, so you guys better have got it right ! Lol.

All I can say is, no-one can do this by themselves. Without the ears of a substantial amount of people, what we think is good, can in fact, be quite terrible.

No one person, that I've ever met, can write record play and produce a track of music with out the help of others.

Hooray to teamwork, and a sense of pride in workmanship !

Thanks guys.

cheers, niteshift

Geoff....you all are favorite people of mine...so of course I like it....

the music sounds familiar to me.....it has a "Someone's Gotta Better Hand" feel to it in places....how's that for ears???

Letha has an Aretha Franklin vocal going....enjoyed the listen, mate....Bob

Excellent stuff....very hard to be all things to all men in this business...very handy to have different pairs of ears to help distinguish...far too easy to lose focus on a song when you live too close to it...great suggestions!..but taking all those points suggested on board,it still doesn't take away from the fact this is an excellent ambitious cut..i cottoned on right away what your goals where Midnite on the 1st listen..the crossover and multi-genre feel about it..the vocals are outstanding!...even taking on board the wee nits suggested previous....you cannot beat CLASS!...and this lady is definately that!...very well done to all concerned..i wish you well with it...Terry...

Hi Nite

Ah I remember this Wondered what happened with it.
I really love the feel & groove of this song! Nice work!

I love the production ideas... great use of lots of interesting and tasteful things & parts. Arrangement is very good as well and I love Letha's vocal vibe on it. Mark as well,everyone did a nice job!

The trouble (and I know it's hard) is in the mix mainly.
There could be a few things to take out in spots perhaps but we wouldn't know that until we heard it with some adjustments.

The biggest distraction is in this section the first chorus

Starting -
No matter where I go
No matter how far
You’re leadin me home
With the beatin of your heart
Rainnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Aw your love rain down
Let it rain

What ever that pad sound is it is wrecking that first chorus totally, It's gotta come way way down. Or maybe out! If I could isolate it and touch it I'd know.
That is the biggest problem.

This kind of song and production is loads of fun because so much stuff works well in it. BUT fitting them all in is a pain and can turn fun into hard work quickly
Too many things are fighting for attention.. and it's a bit cloudy.

I think you have GREAT parts and sounds in a great feeling song... And a strong rough mix take here but It needs a careful mix.

Oh and lol we have never "met" but I officially write,play.sing,record,mix,master all at the same time all by myself I advise anyone who is really serious about being successful at some/one particular thing to avoid doing all this and to the extreme that I have. It can cause all kinds of problems!

Thanks for having me on this one, I really enjoyed it. And I think you and maybe only one or two other people here has ever had me just play bass on there tune. Ever! in four years, that's pretty wild.

All the best buddy

Nice Song. Vocals sounded great. That is some Kick A** bass playing. Over all a really good job. Personally I think it is a little too busy musically. There sure is a lot going on in there. That may just be me though. I'm sure that is probably what you were going for. Some good EQing. You can pick out everthing good. Over all a really good tune.

Bob, Terry, Mike and Charles,

Thanks for listening and for all your thoughts on this. It is probably the biggest project I have ever worked on, and I don't know how niteshift stays sane sometimes mixing all the ingredients in lol, especially my vocals. I am happy he is so dedicated and talented to work it, lol.

Mike, thanks for the bass, I always think bass is one of the most important parts of a song, like the backbone, and you do a great job.

Terry,

Nice to meet you. I just wanted to tell you thanks for such a wonderful comment. You do not know how much I appreciate your kind words,


Letha

Love it! I like all the different sounds. Before I read any of the replies, I specifically thought how it was so cool that the different sounds gave it a traveler feel. So that came through to me!

Loved the delta heat line too.....

And the way the vocals came in on that first "rain"!

Mix sounded fine to me over my headphones.

Great project, folks. Great vocal, Letha. Best of luck with it!

Scott

I can hear her singing at the top of the choir in church ..I like her voice..that distorted guitar does become a bit much in spots ...i like the sounds but for this song its kinda like "ok here I am for a few seconds " other than that, nothing.. I like the song : )

Hey Bob,

Yep, good ears mate. It didn't work out with the co-writer, so I recycled it and teamed up with Letha to re-write the lyrics. Glad I did. Good to hear from you mate, hope you are well.

Terry, glad you enjoyed the listen, and thanks for your support.

Sub, thanks mate. OK I"LL LOOK AT THE SWEEP ! OK ? HUH ? OK ? Great bass playing here. Gives it the drive to keep it moving.

Charles, yep, you're right, it's all about the EQ. It's a little jammed in, but I'm used to being a sardine.

Scott, hehehe, yeah I had to twist Letha's arm to get that " Delta heat ... " line in, but she finally relented. She must have gone troppo ! LOL

Heather, will check that guitar line again. Can't have too many replays....thanks for the listen and comments.

cheers, niteshift

that is a great work
wow, do I love this
great background also

love it

Hey Dan,

Thanks for dropping by. I can't say much in reply, but "wow" is definitely appreciated.

cheers, niteshift

This is great stuff!

I especially liked how the reverb etc was working on the backing vocals to turn it into a softer sort of angelic choir. +1 on the bass track comments. I admire how you're doing a stylistic mash-up with a lot of the instrumental parts and making it work.

For my taste, there's maybe a bit too much percussive distraction -- things like the wood sticks (and to a lesser extent some of the bongo/conga hits) have such a sharp and short attack, they do pull me out a bit. But that's a nit, and maybe just an e.q. thing (or the result of Soundclick's 128k bitrate mp3 compression).

Bravo, though.

Hey Boys and Girl,

Wow, this is magnificent. Of course Letha, you can do no wrong in my book, so I knew I was going to enjoy it before I even started listening. But I was blown away!

What a terrific and nuanced production! I love the imagery of love and the rain -- and wonder if you might want to include "YOUR" at the beginning of the title -- "Your Love Rains Down" -- just to make it a bit more personal.

I can imagine creating a video for this would be a monumental task -- but I can just see it, cutting to different shots around the globe, various groups of people from around the world doing the "back-up", couples dancing in the rain (more monsoon/sexy than "Singing in the Rain"!), etc. You're voice is SO powerful Letha, gosh.

Nothing but glowing things to say about this one. You all really pulled this together beautifully.

Just sorry I'm so late to the party!!

Great work and good luck,
Beth

Nice combination of the lyrics and music - they work well with each other. The sound overall fits the tone of the song. My favorite part is:

You’re leadin me home
With the beatin of your heart
Rainnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Aw your love rain down
Let it rain


Tom

Hey All,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the comments. Please believe me, when I say they were all taken on board, and as the mixing progressed, so did the overall sound and the final result.

So with the mixing done, it was off to Thomas Wind for a final knob twiddle, mix/EQ balance, and tidy up. There's still a couple of things to iron out, but easily fixed.

So, to everyone thats helped with the process, thanks heaps. You can't always trust your own ears, so it's to know that others are listening. We're looking at a release date in a couple of weeks time, so if anyone would like a mastered copy, please feel free. ( At the top post )

cheers guys, niteshift

PS - Sub, see how I reduced the sweep ?

Letha, you remind me of Tina Turner here. Like the vibe and the message. Production is really good, guys. Sounds good.

I love it. I didn't hear the previous incarnations but I really like this version. Song, music, lyrics, production... it all sounds pretty pro to me. Best of luck guys. This song could go someplace IMO.

Geoff - if you did that cool Sax solo, I'm curious how long it took you?

Peace,

Ian

Hi Niteshift,

Wow, I get to hear it too and was thinking that I am a lucky woman to get to work with the talent, patience and vision that you have. I am not trying to butter you up either, lol. And likewise, what an honor to work with you Mark, and Mike. I have never had the opportunity to work with such proficient musicians and producers, and I am thankful to you all for allowing me to be a part of it.

Working with the many different styles of writing, and different genres is exciting to me. I think that is one of the greatest joys I have found in here, the good people, the awesome talent, and the chance to grow in our own abilities by trying different avenues.

Tricia,
Thank you so much, what a nice compliment, as I love Tina. I had to smile, because I made a joke to Niteshift once about fixing a note that might have been a little off, and then I said "That's ok, when Tina sings it she won't go flat," lol. Now if only I have enough years left to find away to make her listen, and then sing it, we would have a dream come true huh?

Ian,
I am glad you like it. This is the first time I have heard it since Niteshift finished with the production, and I have to say that he has done a wonderful job, and anything that I was a little timid about in the song seems to have gotten fixed.

Magic mixer I guess..

Thanks Niteshift, Mark, and Mike and all who listened and helped with your experienced suggestions,

Letha

I listened again and it is really fine. So fine. Everything works together. Noting fighting against another part. The vocals are just what they should be.

Tom

Hey Clay,

Yep, mash up's right, all right, but I think we fixed it in the end. There's a lot going on, which is all hard to fit in, but I think in the final mix, it's all found a sonic space. We did manage to fix the hard attack on the perc, so thanks for the comments, it was a little distracting.

Hey Beth, glad you enjoyed it. I've put you down as script writer for the video, OK ? Please just make sure it's somewhere exotic and has good catering. Glad the imagery is coming through. When I registered the title, I also registered the alternative as "Your Love Rains Down", so great minds think alike.

Hey Tom, yeah it did work Ok in the end. In the beginning, eveything was in conflict. Too much of this, not enough of that. Mike Caro was right, it was all in the mix. When I isolated any 2 tracks, they'd work perfectly against each other. But when hearing say, 4 or 6 , it all became muddled. I went back to basic principles and cut 42 tracks down to 24, so for me, although it was a hard thing to do, it got down to the essence of the song, and I think ( I hope ! ) it all fits. Thanks mate.

Hey Tricia, yep, when I first sent this to Mark K, the comment was "heck, how did ya get Tina Turner ? " Reply ; "I didn't mate, Letha's better". I had to twist her arm though, to add one simple line 'Delta heat', which she didn't like, but finally relented. That was the only 'major hassle' of the whole project, so ya gotta count your blessings. Glad you enjoyed it.

Hey Ian, oh, I hope it does go some place mate. Some nice place with sunshine, beer, and girls wearing dental floss bikini's.......ummm back on track.... The sax ? It's actually 3 sax samples spliced and diced to fit the groove. After doing it, I thought it really should have a real sax player, so I sent off an email to a very well known guy, who, surprisingly returned my call, and said he'd love to do it. Problem was, he's pro, doesn't have a home recording studio, and I don't do live acoustic recording in mine, and after chatting for 1/2 hr, we both came to the conclusion that to call in favours, or alternatively spend maybe $500 on such a small part wasn't worth it given that the budget was zero. And he loved the song, and was willing to do it gratis. Never mind, I've met a great musician, and I've met another traveller who has the same outlook on life. We hope to work together in the future. So in answer to your question, all up, it took maybe an hour to chop, and an hour to get the tone and texture right. Not bad for a $500 saving. Cheers mate.

Hey Letha, the pleasure's all mine. ( Watch out, we might just form the JPF Mutual Admiration Society ) I wouldn't want to be that little guy in your microphone who converts the sound into electricity to send down the cable. I bet his ears are bleeding ! He's just sitting there in the mic going "Oh no, not her again ! LOL.

Sidenote ; And just to let a secret out, the vocal take that you're hearing is the practice/scratch track when we were working on the song, and it's an mp3. Shock, horror ! The next few rounds of takes just didn't have the same oomph, so we went with the origional. Motto ; Don't think about it, just do it.

Thanks guys, sorry for the spiel, just had to reply individually to everyone that gave a helping hand.

cheers, niteshift

Cool... Much Better!

You cut 48 tracks down to 24, that's a biggie. Wow!
I use a 24 track recording machine and have always believed that usually anything more is not really needed. It's kinda like a limited amount of members in your band lol..

But actually the thing that most people don't realize is that it's nice to have LOTS of tracks so you can leave EVERYTHING on it's own track. In other words you could have Bell sound for one HIT... and it's just nice to know it's sitting there on it's own track set at the right level. Rather than bounced in with other percussion etc...

So I'm always looking for that 25th track anyway, just like I was looking for track 9 on the 8 track
I still use 24 tracks only 99% of the times and that's even with 8 tracks being used on drums alone..
It's very hard and tempting not to go crazy with 250 or countless tracks on computer software.

So it took a bit of "producing" to straighten out the mixing better.. Great call NIte
Great work buddy and to all involved as well.

Hi Nite and Letha

Well I downloaded and listened quite a bit and This round I could ONLY come up with things that I would do different because of personal taste --- but Not to be mentioned... I feel that you REally have come through with a Great Mix this time. I love it. Nice work and well done. jm

Sounds good guys!