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#705228 03/26/09 04:06 PM
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Okay, maybe I'm just frustrated right now, but what the HECK does HOOK mean?

Alright, I'm very frustrated. Please give me some inclinations as to what YOU believe it is.

ErisaRei #705232 03/26/09 04:09 PM
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Something lyrically or musically that `hooks' you and makes you want to listen again and again.

Could be a chorus, could be a guitar lick, or intro...could be anything.


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ErisaRei #705234 03/26/09 04:09 PM
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Ok, I'll try. It's a fun question because it's one of those words that sums up a lot of meaning in one syllable.

The best definition of a hook I ever heard, is that it's the part of the song that everyone in the bar sings along with.

It's almost always in the chorus, and it can be a couple of words or a couple of lines. It's that irresistible marriage of music, words and an idea, that nails the song to your brain.

You may not know the whole song, but you see the words "Welcome to the Hotel California" and you can't turn the music off in your head. Or "I wish they all could be California girls"

Last edited by Z. Mulls; 03/26/09 04:10 PM.

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ErisaRei #705237 03/26/09 04:15 PM
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Its that part of the song that gets stuck in your head! grin

Joanne Lurgio #705239 03/26/09 04:18 PM
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Okay, so it's pretty much a phrase that musically and lyrically is catchy enough to make you repeat it in your head over and over?

ErisaRei #705245 03/26/09 04:31 PM
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That's a pretty good definition. I think Steve P. probably said it best, because it could be most anything from a phrase to a cool chord shift.

It's the part that grabs you on the first listen. It "hooks" you in, and keeps you listening and remembering.

I can see why it's frustrating, because it could be almost anything. Bottom line is, we usually know it when we hear it...but describing it isn't always as easy.

Mark Kaufman #705250 03/26/09 04:41 PM
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For some, it could be as simple as the cowbell that starts Honky Tonk Woman.
Ok...maybe that's a bit of a stretch. crazy

Last edited by Steve P.; 03/26/09 05:27 PM.

Steve

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Steve P. #705272 03/26/09 05:17 PM
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it's spelled "honky" no E in it

hook is like in fishin the thing that catches them (in this case the them is people's EARS or attention)too much bait on the hook they get away and you never catch them just a tadd bit to have them hooked and then you reel them in, that phrase or line that keeps goin over and over and over and over in their heads long after the record ends

Gary Gray X #705277 03/26/09 05:27 PM
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I hate it when that happens. Thanks for the correction.


Steve

Steve@pongamoosic.com

My solo works:
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My Pongamoosic...Moosic \:\)
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Voice Over samples:
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Steve P. #705291 03/26/09 05:56 PM
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No, no, no, you're all wrong!

Hook is that mean captain fellow from the Peter Pan stories. You know, the one who's afraid of the ticking crocodile! tongue


Jim Offerman ~ inspirational pop music
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Jim Offerman #705298 03/26/09 06:33 PM
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Eraisa,

It's whatever "Hooks you' into remembering a song. The one thing that you could remember to request the song, or tell your friends about it. Or when you hear it you imediately remember the song. It is the most pivotal part of the song, usually the title, at the end of the chorus.

Guitar intro's: Sweet home Alabama
Stairway to Heaven
Take it Easy

Bass Lines: Papa Was a Rolling Stone
Take a Walk on the Wild Side

Lyric hooks: My Girl
Heart Ache Tonight
American Pie
Wind Beneath my Wings

Piano hooks: Desperado
Imagine

One word hooks: Yesterday


Drum hooks: Honky Tonk Women
We Will Rock You

Band Hooks: Gimme Some Loving
Money for Nothing
Radar Love

MAB

Marc Barnette #705333 03/26/09 07:52 PM
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Whoo hoo that's easy - it's the da da dadada dada dada da da dadada in every song..

Kolstad #705349 03/26/09 08:16 PM
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For me, as a lyricist, it's a statement....disguised as a rhyming, poetic, funny little quip, which tells the reader what I wrote about.

A hook is catchy, too.....but not all of mine are graced with such a neat little accessory.....just certain ones that I wanted people to read and comprehend, perhaps moreso than others....


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Kolstad #705352 03/26/09 08:24 PM
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Back in the tin pan alley days songs would be tested on elderly hotel doormen who whistled popular songs. After hearing a song once if they could whistle the "hook" then it was considered to be hit material. This was called "The old grey whistle test" A British TV music prog was named after this phenomenon.
IMO a hook is a catchy melody or lyrics that people will instantly recognise and remember.

BIG JIM MERRILEES #705378 03/26/09 09:20 PM
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[Linked Image]

BIG JIM MERRILEES #705379 03/26/09 09:21 PM
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A hook will always get ya',
It gets ya' everytime,
A musical riff, a lyrical phrase,
That never leaves your mind!!
It settles in your brain,
It nestles in your heart,
It's something you cannot forget,
It "hooks" you from the start!!! smile


Lynn Orloff #705380 03/26/09 09:23 PM
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OUCH MARK!!!

Lynn Orloff #705393 03/26/09 09:49 PM
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A good song deserves a big hook. wink

Mark Kaufman #705415 03/26/09 11:45 PM
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Ultimate guitar hook--Smoke on the water.
Drums---We will rock you.
Bass-Another one bites the dust.


bc
Bob Cushing #705420 03/27/09 12:17 AM
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The ultimate hook for me has always been:
Duanne Allman's guitar part(I'm pretty sure)in "Layla"
That riff has played in my brain (along with those other voices) for the last 37 years. grin


Steve West
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Steve West #705421 03/27/09 12:21 AM
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It's the "sweet" spot in a song.

John

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Thanks to all for answering my simple question. smile

ErisaRei #705521 03/27/09 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ErisaRei
Thanks to all for answering my simple question. smile
And now for the bad news…

most hit pop songs have a least 3 decent hooks so one is usually not enough. …. Unless of course you have a hook as big as Mark’s eek

Next time you hear a popular song, count the hooks.

Nigel Quin #705546 03/27/09 01:11 PM
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it could really be anything, just the most memorable part.

my favorite example is the stutter in "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet"

b-b-b-baby you just ain't seen n-n-n-nothin' yet

average song sung normally, but that stutter turned it into a hit.

some songwriters start with lyrics, some start with melody, some with chord progressons - but i believe the best songwriters always start with a hook and go from there

..ant


My albums "Rhythms of Life" and "Out On The Road" are on Bandcamp, Spotify and Apple Music.
ErisaRei #705554 03/27/09 01:36 PM
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Taxi listing alwasys emphasize the necessity of an "undeniable" hook.

Any popular songs that did not have a hook?

Tom


Thomas Shea

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Tom Shea #705959 03/29/09 06:47 AM
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Tom,

I'm not sure that "Unchained Melody" really has a hook. It think it just the overall fabrick and color of the composition. There are some small things that about the song that some folks might call a hook. But, for me, a hook has to be something specific that 90% - 95% of the listening audience would all agree upon as that one "Yeah, you caught me right there" spot. In that song, I do not think there is a specific part that does that.

Just my opinion. And contrary to what my wife says, sometimes I'm right!

Alan


Two Singers #705964 03/29/09 07:20 AM
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The Entertainer has that riff that identifies it with the light keys yet has the lower keys holding it in place, or what I have always thought of it to be it's hook.
I always thought of the riff to constitute the main melody and the hook as the rythmn part.
But my terminologies are probably off with it to.
Unchained Melody sounds harder to pinpoint, yet has those bottom keys accompanying.
Black Sabbath has songs like Paranoid, which sound more like one big riff, or hook.
Changes almost sounds like a classical composition.
Kiss must have been listening to that with Beth.

With some types of music, the hook seems hard to pinpoint.

That slinky bass line that opens The Eagles "One Of Thse Nights" though really sticks in my mind.
Makes me want to pick up a bass.
That is a bass?

mattbanx #705980 03/29/09 09:48 AM
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Hi Erisa

Nice to meet you, check out my soundclick and listen to my very first song "Don't push my button", that's a good hook. I hope it helps you, and it's a great song to help you get rid of that frustration your feeling. crazy

http://members.soundclick.com/share/81894

Looks like you have lots of good advice here, goodluck.

Okay, so it's pretty much a phrase that musically and lyrically is catchy enough to make you repeat it in your head over and over? You got it Erisa! whistle

Aussie girl grin

Michele



Last edited by Michele Bolton; 03/29/09 09:57 AM.
Jim Offerman #706012 03/29/09 01:30 PM
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There is ‘hook factor’ which should commence with the first sound you present to the listener. It may be percussion, the rhythm of other instrumentation, the pitch-melody of that instrumentation, the vocal melody, if that’s the opener, or the words, if you get them across, enunciating well and saying something the listener finds meaningful, ‘hooking’ their interest in what the singer-character is beginning to tell them, wanting to know more. Any of these can repeat throughout the song, re-setting the ‘hook’ in the listeners’ interest.

As a songwriter, YOU are the first listener, and should be 'hooked' the same way you hope others will be, your interest piqued by something, making you pay attention to see what will follow. That's hook-FACTOR.

Then there is THE hook, which is generally the title, which serves a summary function, summing up what the whole song is about. We often find ourselves singing along with that part, and even hearing it re-play in our heads after the song stops. It generally occurs in the chorus, or may BE the chorus in a refrain-type chorus, a line that repeats at the end of each verse. The chorus serves that summary function as a whole, summing up the story-line of the song, and THE hook serves that function more succinctly, getting to the point of what preceding verses were about. The strategic locations are the last line in the verse, in the refrain-type chorus, or the first and/or last line in the chorus, in the stanza-type of chorus. I consider the last line position to be strongest, left ringing in the mind of the listener.

In song, as in life, you may only get one chance to make a first impression. In the music biz that’s definitely true. If you fail to ‘hook’ music executives immediately, they may stop listening. If you continue to fail to hook them as the song continues, they definitely stop. Consumers are the same. If you don’t get them quickly and keep them, they drift off to think of other things and only notice when the song is over.

The songs on your link:
I Still Need You: hook factor in opening instrumentation. May be about 8 seconds longer than needed. Voice, persona of the singer and the character the singer is assuming to play a role, have hook-factor. Opening line lost in enunciation. The lift in emotion (about 1:09) when you get to THE hook/title has hook factor, about 1:11. It may be an error to say, “You’re all that I need,” without hitting THE hook/title at the end of those repeats. The words don’t seem clear in telling a story, just rhyming around the concept. A few missed words, lost in enunciation, may be losing me, leaving me un-hooked. THE hook-title is very strong, well-sung, well-communicated, emotive. It has to be supported by clear delivery of the other lines.

Backwards: Guitar rhythm to open, hooks. I can’t understand a lot of the words because the vocal is so stylized. The words become notes instead of words, losing recognizable enunciation. Sounds like a great song but you’ve got to deliver it to me. I could probably listen over and over and ‘get’ it; but most listeners aren’t going to give you that chance.

Light The Fire: Enunciation loses me on opening lines. Gets quickly to THE hook/title, which is strong on hook-factor. Goes through musical movement twice then has change of dynamics for ‘chorus’ and ends with THE hook. The many repetitions of the title drive that hook into the listeners’ consciousness. Enunciation on many lines loses me.

Cover Me: Slow tempo draws you in, hooks you. Enunciation misses. If you fail to get strategic words in a line to the listener, then they don’t know what the line’s about, then what the verse is about, then what the song’s about. They are un-hooked. The sustained notes are well-executed but the voice loses the quality of a voice speaking words with meanings to being an instrument producing notes. Great notes! Emotive. But the words get lost. THE hook, “Cover Me,” doesn’t have strong meaning, since I miss so many other words, lines, etc. Toward the end I get the metaphor, “Cover me with the blanket of your…gaze? Grace?”

We Invite You: Again, vocal stylizing loses me as to ‘getting’ word meanings. “We Invite You to…” what? I don’t know. Come? Call? Strategic words have to be delivered. Communications are sent, but they must also be received to qualify as ‘communications.’


Last edited by Gary E. Andrews; 03/29/09 01:39 PM.

There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
Gary E. Andrews #708413 04/06/09 02:09 AM
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Blues Traveler had a song out a few years back called "the hook".says something like the hook brings you back...it was a pretty good song and very interesting lyrics


*****You know I'm a dreamer,but my heart's of gold*****Motley Crue


Michelle Chapman #708556 04/06/09 01:10 PM
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One thing that this thread makes clear is that a hook is not a simple play on words that some people think at first. It is more like a range of possibilities that draw the listener to the song. Mays ways of doing that.

Tom


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska


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