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Greetings fellow songwriters!
Here's another old one that I keep coming back to, trying to find ways to make it better. Any and all ideas will be seriously considered. Interesting but useless factoid. This is the first and only song where I use a pick. Just can't seem to hold on to those things.



http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7255779

BILLY’S EYES
©Ricki E. Bellos

Saturday nights we’d jump in Billy’s car
Pick up a six-pack, look out at the stars
I’d reach out my hand, they seemed so close
When he’d tell me to try, that’s when I loved him the most

I liked to see myself in Billy’s eyes
Laughing and dancing through the night
I loved how I looked in Billy’s eyes
So much more than I did in mine

When it was cold we made our own heat
Spent a lot of time in his back seat
Some nights I told him all my fears
He said I was deeper than I appeared

I liked to see myself in Billy’s eyes
Laughing and dancing through the night
I loved how I looked in Billy’s eyes
So much more than I did in mine

Several years, a run down house, a dog named Bo
A couple of kids with men I still don’t know
Walk any road, isn’t it strange
A left instead of right and everything’s changed

I still wonder how this came about
I guess misjudging what I could live without

I remember myself in Billy’s eyes
Laughing and dancing in Billy’s eyes
I loved myself in Billy’s eyes
So much more than I ever will in mine
I was never much in mine

Hey Ricky, this is a kind of sad never caught a break, made the
wrong decisions type of lyric, you manage to lift it out of
that till it sounds almost positive but the last line of the
chorus damps it down again, I guess it depends how you want to
proceed determines what you do or don't do, if it's just for
you to play and enjoy it's fine as is and I personally like it
as is, your vocal, playing and melody are all good but if you
want something more commercial I think you would have to put
a more positive spin on it.

Tony.

Hi Ricki

I love the music and the change ups.... the picking part is great !! They make them with special little sand paper like dots on one side now, yanno..

The Chorus rocks .... great Idea the reflection and title...

As it stands I can see the movie in it.....

Guess if this is one that you wanted to make a new spin on - you could drop the third verse. Change the story line to - him leaving and taking a different road.....may be died.... her thinking about him

specifically moving Away from beating up herself to a more empowered position....
to attract a singer to pick this up.....

nothing wrong with having 2 versions... Anyway I love the beat and music - and a lot as a whole. jm

i think this one has a lot of potential... maybe it's just a matter of recording it with a fuller arrangement & more instruments, getting some harmonies on it and some nice production. i really liked the idea behind it a lot, thought it was unique, sad, and true. seems pretty strong, maybe just filling it out? thanks for sharing it.

Hi Ricki,

I was surprised that the song has nothing to do with "Billy's Eyes" at all, but about the singer's need for love, acceptance, approval--she's revealing having had a self-esteem problem, and it's all told so innocently I'm swept up in her need to feel this love and acceptance.

In the margins, the singer reveals her feelings about Billy: "When he’d tell me to try (to touch the stars with her hands), that’s when I loved him the most"

because of "proximity", the singer here...

I’d reach out my hand, they seemed so close
When he’d tell me to try, that’s when I loved him the most

...seems to be talking about her hands being close...yeah I know...I can't hold a thought in my head longer than one line ...actually I "got it" but it did cause a slight pause

This line "Laughing and dancing through the night" is interestingly placed, because there's multiple ways to read it: she could be laughing and dancing, he could, they both could...Literally, she would be feeling he sees her as laughing and dancing through the night...I think the singer means they both enjoyed each others company, and nothing more, but it got heady for me, the more I thought about it...

for me, the bridge needs work. "I still wonder how this came about" is weird, to me...okay she's talked about missing the way she felt when Billy would raise her spirits, but more recently she's talked about a "left turn" into a perhaps unwanted motherhood...is "this" referring to everything or the most recent thing the singer's talked about...I guess "this" is kind of vague, and so I'm going stumbling into "I guess misjudging what I could live without" and now I'm reeling...she could live with how she sees herself in Billy's eyes, or not?? ...

...I don't know...there in the bridge I think you could do better, have your singer get back to the "Billy's eyes" idea perhaps, and relate how caring too much about how he felt was probably a mistake...which is my guess as to what you are trying to say there, but chose a rather obscure way to say it...for me at least...

I like this song a lot for, mainly because the singer is willing to make herself look a lot less than perfect...willing to admit to needing to have someone else "raise her spirits up"...we know they were lovers, but I don't think they were in love. She loved the "way she looked through his eyes" ...which isn't love, really...more a kind of narcissism? When others define who we are, before we're able to do so ourselves, it can be a powerful aphrodisiac, and that's what this song is about for me, and the singer sings it all so innocently...it's very powerful stuff...IMHO if you work on your bridge, this is done...it's very powerful as it is...

Happy Valentine's Day, Ricki

--Mike

Hi Tony,

Thanks for giving this a listen. I've been told before, upbeat, uptempo is where it's at. Also, nothing that makes the singer look bad. Sometimes, a song comes out like that, sometimes not. I guess this one is not. I want it to be a "better" song but that doesn't mean I want to change the meaning or the point. Maybe the next one will be more positive.

Ricki

Very powerful and well thought out lyric -- and I love the guitar playing. I had the same thought as Mike on the "I’d reach out my hand, they seemed so close" ... Close to what.. oh yea -- the stars. Nonetheless, there is no reason to change it on this one, I think.

I didn't care for "So much more than I did in mine" line -- I wanted it to be a happy song! But again, I see no reason to change it, because it works as is.

"I still wonder how this came about
I guess misjudging what I could live without"

I would like these to be re-written to be up to the power of the rest of the lyric. Maybe it's just the first line.

Overall, I think it is great and well done. Too bad you don't like to perform live, I think this one would be great live.

Kevin

Hi JM,

Thanks for listening, glad you like it. I wasn't really looking for a new spin on this one, just a better song. I never got that line in Hey Jude, "take a sad song and make it better". Can't I have a song and make it better but still keep it sad? Why does making it better mean making it less sad? Sorry, I'm ranting. Never mind me, I'm hungrily awaiting dinner and I get whiny when I'm hungry! By the way, didn't you know, I am a closet masochist!

Ricki

Hi Babette,

Thanks for stopping by for a listen. I'm glad you like it. As far as production, it's just me for now, until I can figure out which songs are worthy of pursuing. That, and then paying for it!

Ricki

Hey you should use a pick more often

Hey Limey,

What a relief -- I was saving you for my last listen of the night, and while I hated you as always, there were a couple of thoughts I had...and I'm thinking do I have the gumption to stay up a bit longer and talk intelligibly?

So as I'm waffling about it, I start poking thru some of your other replies...and praise be, Mike Z. pretty much said exactly what I was thinking....thank you Mike!!

The only point I'd slightly differ on is the question of whether or not they were in love at the beginning. I tend to think she was (or thought she was), while he wasn't -- seemed to have some good lines handy....BUT, I'm not sure it even matters. She's reflecting back on and seemingly missing HOW HE MADE HER FEEL. Which in nutshell, was special.

It is an intriguing question about what precipitated and more importantly what WAS that fork in the road? My feeling is that he was just using her, taking advantage of her shyness, and once she "gave in" he dumped her. Then she lost all her self-esteem (because it was based, as Mike said, on her perception of HIS perception of her), lost all interest in getting involved to please herself....she became a bit of a loosey goosey, ended up sleeping around, getting knocked up, etc.

But yeah, I do think that Bridge needs a bit more info for us. I don't mind multiple possible interpretations, but it almost doesn't make sense, as it comes so out of the blue...

Though I did love this detail: she remembers the dog "Bo's" name, but doesn't really recall the "real" dogs' names...

Still, Ricki, in the end, your vocal is as awful and impersonal and unmoving as always...and your instrumentation gets worse and worse . What am I to do with you????

Cheers chickie,
Beth

P.S. BTW, if this IS at all autobiographical, you tell me where that Billy boy lives, and I'll set him straight upside the head!!

Hi Mike,

WOW! You really went all out on this crit. Thanks. I'll try to answer your questions.

As for your comment about the stars/hands being so close, etc., etc., this is one reason why this forum is so awesome. To have a fresh look at something that is so close to me is a real eye opener. This line was so perfectly clear to me, I never imagined it would trip anyone up. I'll have to think about a fix.

"Laughing and dancing through the night". This is how she saw herself in Billy's Eyes, young, having fun, feeling good about herself. Hence, the title. I picture her as an average teenage girl with low self esteem, but with someone who cares about her, she becomes a better person, better able to deal with life. She hasn't learned to do this for herself and, in this case, never will.

With the bridge, I was trying to tie together the life she had and the one she ended up with.
"I still wonder how THIS came about
I guess misjudging what I could live without",
THIS being her present life. Don't we all wonder how we end up where we are, where we went wrong, especially when it isn't where we really want to be?

I'd have to say they were in love, as much as kids can be, before they know any better. She made some bad choices, maybe cheated on him, thought she had outgrown him, dumped him, then found out she really didn't do very well without him in her life.

Thanks for taking so much time on this, and I'll be working on a couple of things to help clarify the story.

Ricki

Ricki,

I'm a sucker for the sad, unresolved song, so this was right up my alley. I thought the brige was trying to show that she dumped Billy..maybe because he liked her too much and she was a little afraid of that. Now hindsight has made her realize that perhaps she should have believed what he said. If that's what you were trying to convey in the bridge, I would just say that (and make it rhyme).

PS: If I could only use a pick like you do, I would be an uncomfortably happy camper.

Hiya Ricki,

I loved this one! It's probably the most "poppy" sounding song of yours that I've heard, but as usual, your interesting lyrics added another layer to what could have been simply a catchy and well-written melody. I definitely hear this with fuller production... probably a standard rock/pop arrangement. To my ear, with the right treatment, it could definitely be soundtrack material. Of course I don't know anything about that, so take that with a grain of salt. Nice work (again ).

Well I think you should look fine in your eyes ...nice lyric...

this line...

A couple of kids with men I still don’t knowIs that part of the reason the singer is not happy with herself?

Good delivery...can I ask what chords you used?

Nice thought provoking sound for the lyric.

oh absolutely...but as you see that's not what I took you to mean there...I took "this" to mean the everything she'd talked about in the song up to that point...Wendy understood you correctly, I believe...a few seem in agreement, though, that you can express what you mean, better, there...

Hi Rat,

Well, maybe I'm easy but I have NO NITS.
I think it's a great/sad and needs to stay sad.
Who cares if it's commercial or not.
It's your feelings !

ps...I cant use a pick but would like to.

Have a fun day & thanks for entertaining me.

Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for commenting. Glad you like this. It took a lot of takes trying to hold on to that pick!

"I didn't care for "So much more than I did in mine" line -- I wanted it to be a happy song!"
Sorry, maybe the next one will be happier!

As for the bridge, I'm still working on it. How else do you say, "How did I end up here? Guess I s@#t in my mess kit"?

Ricki

Hi Louis,

Believe me, if I could find a way to superglue it to my fingers, I would use it more often. I think that might interfere with other things though

Ricki

Ricki: If you have a dog, let them chew on the pick for a second or two. My nephew's dog did that to my pick and it left some grooves in there and it is really easy to keep a hold of now. I am thinking of starting a business based on this: "Chew Picks".

Kevin

Hi Beth,

Glad you felt up to listening and commenting, Hopefully this means you're on the mend?

Your interpretation of this isn't wrong. I probably shouldn't have been so specific to Mike above, because whether or not the characters were in love really doesn't matter. For whatever reason, they split and at least one of them took a turn for the worse. My response to Mike was what was in my head when I wrote this, but would it matter if they were just using each other? The end result is the same. How they get where they are could be up to the listener to decide.

The bridge seems to be a sticking point. Like I asked Kevin,
how else do you say, "How did I end up here? Guess I s@#t in my mess kit"?

As for this being autobiographical, while I did have very low self-esteem as a teenager, and my current husband's name is Bill,
I didn't start drinking beer until after college, I have never "done it" in the back seat, never had a kid, but my in-laws had a dog named Bo and I am still reaching for the stars. Oh yeah, and it really is amazing and empowering to be with someone who builds you up and never misses an opportunity to help you help yourself. Please, don't hurt him!

Ricki

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for stopping in. I figured you for a sad, unresolved song lover! Your thoughts are pretty close to what I had in mind, but as I said, does it really matter? Open to interpretation isn't a bad thing. The bridge has become a work in progress.
I've tried the pick thing on other songs and found the little darlings all over the place, ending up scattered about after being thrown in frustration. Fortunately, this song was recorded in a small enough room where they were easily retrieved. Life is too short. Maybe they should be sold with proper instructions for the guitar playing challenged?

Ricki

Hi Ricki:

I saw this yesterday but I couldn't get to Soundclick all day - what a bummer.....

I love this. When I read the lyric yesterday I thought that maybe it could be given a happier ending. After listening, I say keep it as it is. It's got a lot of power to it!

No suggestions from me - it works great.

I have trouble holding onto those picks too (requisite smilie)

Scott

Hi Ricki,

I'm a bad, bad man and I need discipline. But that's neither here nor there. I've critiqued a lot less than I've posted, but hope to turn that around in the long run. I'm at work, so I can't listen, but it's dead as can be so I'll toss in on the lyric.

But first, maybe you should try these awesome picks by Dunlop:



The texture created by the raised lettering keeps them from slipping from my greasy fingers. And I work in a pizza shop.

Anyway, it's a great write. Packed with great images that burn themselves into the listener's mind probably in a hundred different ways. Most everyone has experienced most of these things in their own lives, somehow. And there's usually at least one old lover that sure seems like a good choice in hindsight. (Of course, that all changes once you see them at the high school reunion with a huge gut and no hair and one nostril, etc.)

So, you've been clear about not being concerned with that whole "keep it positive" thing. I agree that life teaches a lot more than positive messages can show. If you try to sell it in Nashville, you'll hit that wall, but when you write a song you probably never even think about Nashville, so God bless you. Still, I think the key to making this song great instead of really good is hiding somewhere in the last seven lines.

To me, everything leading up to there is sewn up nice and tight. But the take away from then on has less impact than what precedes it, leaving many of us to suggest a more positive message, etc. I don't mind if it ends happy or achingly sad...but something bigger needs to happen there to take it over the top. The lines

I still wonder how this came about
I guess misjudging what I could live without

are the first point in this lyric when you Tell instead of Show. And then

I remember myself in Billy’s eyes
Laughing and dancing in Billy’s eyes
I loved myself in Billy’s eyes
So much more than I ever will in mine
I was never much in mine

revisits what we've seen previously, yet this time with you telling us that you now understand what's missing today...those eyes of his helped you love yourself, and that's not in your life right now. ("You" being the singer, that is.)

So even though the end has a cleverly contained, pretty powerful message, I think the subtlety of how it gets delivered somehow feels anticlimactic.

Which reminds me...how come in all these years since I was an English minor, the only times I've ever had to explain what an "anticlimax" was, was to guys? I mean, women always seem to know what an anticlimax is. Why is that?

Anyway, the only thing I'd revisit lyrically is the ending...maybe explore a few different ways to convey the same message, and you might hit on something that works on even more people. But if you don't, count me in with the admirers. Yeah, it's a little sad, but at least the singer now sees what she didn't see before...and the lyric can work as a cautionary tale.

Thanks for writing good songs, Ricki. It's always worth the visit whether the sound is on or not.

-Mark

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the listen and comments. Glad you like it. Production is always at the bottom of my list but definitely on file for future reference.

Ricki

Hi Ted,

Thanks for stopping and commenting. Glad you like it.

"A couple of kids with men I still don’t know
Is that part of the reason the singer is not happy with herself?"
Yes, she definitely took a wrong turn and now has regrets about past decisions. I'm just glad she isn't me!

As for the chords, they're pretty simple. I have not yet met anything below the 4th fret, unless using a capo
Verses
D E G A
G D G A
D E G A
G A G A
Chorus
D G A
D G A
D G A
G A
And so on

Ricki

Hi Mike,

Again, it was so clear to me at the time. "This" was the verse that directly preceded. I'm on it!

Ricki

Hi Calvin,

Thanks. I had heard that you were easy!

Ricki

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the listen. Happy endings are over rated.
Glad I'm not alone with the pick thing. I was afraid maybe I was defective. Thanks for the pick-me-up.

Ricki

Hey Ricki,

First off; I wouldn't change the lyrics. I thought they were great. They made perfect sense to me all the way through.

Are the lyrics commercial enough? Personally I don't know, and I don't care. They tell the story, and in a unique way.

I loved how I looked in Billy's eyes
So much more than I did in mine - the anchor of the song. It enhances the sadness/essence of the verses.

Here's a woman looking back at her life (a life she screwed-up through regrettable choices), and realizing how special a time in her past was - with a person that admired her (and more importantly, made her feel special).

Though the music works on one level, I didn't feel it carried its weight against those heartrending lyrics.

Best, John

Hi Mark,

I can't seem to get a grip on these picks you recommended. Are you sure you didn't get some sauce on them? And now my monitor is all smudged! Thanks a heap!
The end seems to be the stumbling block so that's where I need to focus. Lord knows we don't want any anti-climaxes here! I appreciate your input. It has been missed.

Ricki

Hi John,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm glad you liked it and that it made sense. As for the music, I didn't want a dirge, cause I do that all the time. I wanted something a little more up-tempo, but not particularly happy sounding. Don't know if I can re-think that part of it at this point. Thanks for stopping by.

Ricki

This is very well done IMO Ricki. To me, it's a sad tale of a woman who never liked life much, doesn't like life now and is a bit bitter. The emotion is palpable.

Peace,

Ian

Ricki,
Chillingly honest. Starkly beautiful. Not everyone can look inside and find truth. You can.
I am humbled by this.
Tom

Oh yeah picks.
Anatomically we are all different. I use them but I couldn't strum without one. And my thumb gets a blister.

Ricki,

I like to review on first emotion and then follow up with any technical crits. Well, after listening and experiencing the first emotion, I decided I didn't need to do a more extensive crit. For me, the song simply has to grab me and persuade me to continue listening, regardless of how technically precise/correct it is. Thias grabbed me and refused to let me not enjoy it. I loved it. Very nicely done!

Alan

I like the lyrics. They offer something to the listener that is not always there in songs - the chance to really look inside the song and the person (protagonist I guess it would be called). The way you paint the story, one can feel what she is feeling - conflicting issues to some degree - it tells us something we did not know before listening to the song. The music works in a support role and is good at helping the lyrics convey the song. The music does not interfer. It sounds natural and works well.

Tom

Hi Ian,

Thanks, I appreciate the "very well done". I would like to think she is more wistful. She's not bitter, she's just not as sweet as she used to be. And, yes, I already wrote that one.

Ricki

Hi Tom,

Thanks for taking time to listen and comment.

"Chillingly honest. Starkly beautiful. Not everyone can look inside and find truth. You can. I am humbled by this."

Wow!!! Now I'm getting a big fat head! With clumsy fingers!

Ricki

I like this, sad as it is. I think the left turn instead of right says enough to explain why Billy is gone and two other nameless fathers came and went. I would not change the lyrics much if at all.

Good melody and strumming. A pick opens different doors. Stay with it and you will be rewarded. Some material demands a pick, other material is best with digits.

Perhaps not a mainstream commercial song, but fits well in the singer/songwriter genre that has plenty of fans.

Well, Ms Bellos, I'm sure one of these days you're gonna put a turkey on here, but this certainly aint it. Another top notch song, and it's good to hear you doing something a little different with your guitar sound - you'll be bashing away on a strat before too long.

If I were judging this song as the song of the artist, I'd say it was fine like it is, but it's my understanding that you want to cherry pick your songs and spend money on the best and send them to a publisher. This one I wouldn't pick as it is, I'd rewrite it and take Billy out of it, and do a song about wanting to see how you're seen by other people, something we never really get to see.

Anyway, just a thought.

Lucian

Hi Ricki,

I loved this song, Ricki! I thought a lot about the storyline you chose, initially wanting it to end up more positive as well. But I guess thats the male pow, wanting to fix things. But the positive sometimes becomes a little 'preachy', like we can't hold our share of sad songs?? So frankly, I like this better as it is!

Im a sucker for 'timecapsuling' a song, like I think you do here, make it focus on one moment one feeling, and have people to realize themselves that this is not about every feeling available out there and its not always so.

Then this song becomes reliablle to deliver when you want it to - to have that particular feeling, and bring it up when you want it. I belive that is a perfectly viable way to go! But Im sure this is not standard A&R talk.

I would sequence the two lines before that last chorus to be an outro, and cut the last line of the last chorus. Then it would be in more common form.

To me this is an excellent singer-songwriter kind of song, and if you don't know, these are very marketable at the moment, so I think you should go for that - while its hot!

Hi Al,

Thanks for listening. Glad it grabbed you, in the right way of course.

Ricki

Hi Tom S,

Thanks so much, your comments are appreciated. I'm glad it made you feel, even if it was a downer of a story.

Ricki

What I like about this Ricki..is the honesty that comes across
in the writing...whether it's partially introspective...not at all....or a totally true slice of life...... I think many of us
most of us...can relate. I know there was a time in my life..
when I kept going back and replaying things.......so
I appreciate what you have going on here.

If you choose to....and ever change your mind...can easily
alter....to reflect a different shade of light..and life..

But I liked the strength of your writing....

and always love your voice gal.

H,
Kaley

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the comments. Glad you liked it. I know if I practiced more with a pick, I'd get better at it. I just keep hoping that thing "they" say about old dogs and knew tricks isn't true.

Ricki

Hi Lucian,

Thanks much, glad you liked it. I prefer to call them chickens though, not turkeys, and I hope I never let one of my flock get away before its time. Although I am partial to this song, it isn't on my list of very, very favorites. I have a lot on that list ever since I've become better at sorting them all out. I had hoped someone else would do that for me but have come to the conclusion it's better to do it for myself. Then there's nobody else to blame but me.

Ricki

Hi Magne,

Thanks for the comments. Glad you liked it. I'll have to think about moving those lines to the end. I wanted the last line of the song to leave no doubt about where her head was, and right now, saying "I was never much in mine" pretty much says it all. Thanks.

Ricki

Hi Kaley,

Thanks so much for the comments. I'm glad you liked it.

"But I liked the strength of your writing"
That means everything. Thanks.

Ricki

Ricki:

OK, so I listened to this when you first posted it over on the Mentor board and I really liked it. I think it has real commercial appeal. The chorus is very catchy. For that matter, so is the verse. But, in my opinion, there are a couple of things holding this song back. Here's what I'm thinking:

1. Verse 1 and 2 are really good. They are visual and engaging, interesting. I think the "deeper than I appeared" line could be stronger, but I was into the story. And the music and melody in the verses are very strong. It builds up nicely to the chorus.
2. The chorus is very strong. It rocks. Except...I don't like the "So much more than I did in mine..." It's too much of a downer. This is an upbeat song, you've got the listener going and then...all the fun goes out of it. (Plus it's a woe-is-me downer.) How about replacing the last line with "Oh, how I looked in Billy's eyes"? This would add a second meaning - that she looked into his eyes - and would end the chorus on a positive note.
3. I guess you know where I'm going with this...yes, the first two lines of the third verse are bringing me down, man! Don't misunderstand...I'm a fan of music that takes a real look at the real world. A lot of great songs are like that. But THIS song has the potential to be a great feel good song that you could rock along to in the car with the windows down and the sunglasses on. You could say something to the effect that life hasn't turned out the way you planned, you never quite reached the stars, etc.
4. You could replace the last two lines with:

I loved how I looked in Billy's eyes
Oh, I how looked in Billy's eyes

There was a thread on one of the other forums about writing positive songs. You write smart, introspective songs - it's what I like about your songs. This song seems just seems like a perfect opportunity to really follow that positive song guideline.

Mark