JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Beatles and song length

37 of their hit songs, each in less than three minutes. Did these guys know how to write radio friendly pop hits or what?

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - 2:01
Eleanor Rigby - 2:04
Norwegian Wood - 2:04
Good Day Sunshine - 2:07
Can't Buy Me Love - 2:10
Yesterday - 2:11
All My Loving - 2:12
We can work it out - 2:12
Lady Madonna - 2:15
Blackbird - 2:18
Paperback Writer - 2:18
Help - 2:19
Love Me Do - 2:24
I Want To Hold Your Hand - 2:25
Here, There and Everywhere - 2:26
In My Life - 2:28
Drive My Car - 2:28
Got To Get You Into My Life - 2:31
Rock And Roll Music - 2:31
And I Love Her - 2:32
Twist And Shout - 2:33
Yellow Submarine - 2:37
When I'm 64 - 2:38
Taxman - 2:39
Lovely Rita - 2:42
Michelle - 2:42
Birthday - 2:43
Back in the USSR - 2:43
A Hard Day's Night - 2:44
With a Little Help From My Friends 2:44
Nowhere Man - 2:44
It's Getting Better All The Time - 2:47
Eight Days A Week - 2:48
Day tripper - 2:50
Magical Mystery Tour - 2:52
I Saw Her standing there - 2:55
Penny Lane - 2:59

Their live performances were short, too. 45 minutes or less, I think. Anybody got any facts on this?

Not only was there live performances short, there playing live was short lol...

This band was the end all man. They just did it all! and will never ever ever be duplicated or equaled. Timing plays into that as well as all the talent & innovation.

They had all these great arrangments and short tunes but as well had the LONGST playing number single ever in "Hey Jude"

Just a few notes about - These friggin guys:

1- Stopped touring!!! Who even could consider doing such a thing? You are the biggest Pop group in the world. An international phenomenon. 2 years in and you NEVER perform live concerts again.. And you remain the biggest and most successful.. WHAT? Unreal!

2- You make short playful films of your songs and send them out as promo's.
Your making music videos! Way before MTV

3- Hey Jude - Longest number one single (more rule breaking)

4- Six Years!!6 years to do ALL that.. Staggering!!
If I had one Sgt Peppers in me in my life I would be in orbit. These guys put em out
two at a clip. Pepper & Mystery Tour are in the same year.... take a look at those tracks... But every year it was albums & singles... It's not even fair!

5- Making the recording studio part of the creative process making it into an art form. Thanks to the brillaint George Martin & great engineers. This really kicked off the way studio's would be used for years after. It became part of the band and changed the way things were done for so many years prior. Again Les Paul deserves much credit but so do so many inventors and great innovators.

If you truly love rock music & pop music than you are lucky to have lived in the time frame of The Beatles and really basically 1950-1980.
In the 60's not only did The Beatles achieve all there is to achieve and set the standard that anyone could only dream about. They pushed the other great artists & writers around them to a higher level. And in return were pushed themselves.
Between Them, The Beach Boys, The Stones and Motown alone... no one rested in trying to be more innovative and great in ever way possible.
They dictated what the music scene was not the suits. And the suits were cool lol.

There was magic being sprinkled all over the place musically......

PS- My favorite band was Led Zeppelin

Very revealing. I wonder if preferences of the listeners have changed. It seems many songs now on the radio are about 3:30. That lenght is generally in my mind when I write a song. In fact I make a concerted effort to avoid writing a song less than 3 minutes in length.

Tom

I aim to get my songs over the two minute mark, long intro or instrumental breaks can make it any length you want.

It's different for me...I have to try to keep them short...too much early 70's influence always telling me to write five and six minute songs.

Keep in mind that the Beatles wrote for the pop market of the 60's. The norm at the time was to keep songs less than three minutes. Look at any late 50's/early 60's pop songs and you will find lots of similar numbers. "You Really Got Me" by the Kinks was 2:14. So, at the time, no one was amazed by how short the songs were...but the eyebrows raised when they did really long ones like "Hey Jude" and "I Want You (She's So Heavy)", although it was Dylan who broke that mold in '65 with "Like a Rolling Stone". Then the 70's brought us Prog Rock and MOR and album cuts on FM, and we became used to longer songs. Now? Yeah, about 3:30.

That sort of economy of style is a great teacher for songwriters...the goal is to drill it down to the basics. Now THERE'S a songwriting challenge for us...

It's not the length that will determine if any song we do now will have the same affect as those great freakin songs of The Beatles, it's the quality of every placed chord, melody line and sound of the lyrics, (even more than the meaning of some, which were of course creative after some time of them writing.

Long intros, instrumental breaks,,,,whatever! No assume affect, time or otherwise, if the "song" is just OK, or worse. The least concerns should be time by adding a long intro or a lead. Should be on trying to write great songs, (melodies and the sounds of them).

Point of how even a short song can feel longer: They would get two bridges in, after even having an intro and a couple verses, WITH a chorus, and still be under 3 minutes! And none if it sounds crammed. You can listen to some of those songs and swear it must be over three minutes by a good margin,,,but they're not! Time was not the issue, only a writing skill at the highest level for Pop Rock was.

Be concise, tell something, and then get out, was their way of writing. No boring long intros or leads that had nothing to do with the "song", just catchy melodies with a sound and feel. Magic to have known that at such early ages. Most bands are only getting to be booked regularly around their area when in their mid twenties. They were on Ed Sullivan at just around 20, up to 23 or 24, (for Ringo), if I have that right. George being 20?

Lennon and McCartney especially in the early days wrote songs within a 1/4 of a day, and every time they set out to do so!
Neither has said they had a stop watch for the song length. They just knew what felt great for them, and with them having great musical instincts that can't be taught. No click tracks either. Just counted off what the pocket of the song could be, and Martin took it from there, either asking or telling them to slow or speed it up, (as in Please Please Me). That was first written in the style of Roy Orbison, after he and The Beatles were touring in Europe before Beatlemania, and The guys heard Roy composing one of his future hits in the back of the tour bus. Paul has said that he turned to Lennon and said, "We have to write songs like THAT!. So they composed Please Please Me in that slow ballad style of Roy's. George Martin heard it, and said it's a great song, but needs to be faster to have more energy from the guy's vocals. (Play that song in Roy's style sometime and see how it was first written)!

The time of the song or songs was not talked about as far as some studio notes books have it. Probably was of course, but it looks like The Beatles just had a great sense of getting to the heart of the song fast and then get to the ending. (For they had so much going on in both work load and creative writing that the top must have been spinning fast all the time.

When I started to write a song for an album not to be, with a friend who was going to write in the style of Lennon, I came up with sort of a Paul tune somehow, and didn't think of song length of anything....Just started singing and playing a tune, wanting to come up with something in a short time period, to see if it could be done like that. The song comes in at 2:04, the same length as Yesterday,,,but it is a faster song. Intro, Verse, Chorus, Intro break, Verse, Chorus, Chorus, Chorus, Ending. See? Lots there, but not taking up time with just adding whatever to do get it at any particular time. No waste. Paul and friends heard it, (from one of the guitar players in his current band getting it by email from his screener), and got back to me saying "Rusty and friends like the song, and it is a good Paul-like write, Good luck with it".

The point is a song is good or not, not by the length, but by how it moves someone. How it does in the music business is another story, for all the factors that then have to be dealt with, like marketing. That song would be, and is tough to know where to place it, with how radio is now. That's cool, for that song ends all our shows and is just fun to play for all of us, and is a tribute of sorts to The Beatles.

Many of us boomers try to capture some things in our bands and songs,,,,,BUT it is a bar SO high as to just look up and say, HOW the hell did they come up with ALL that great material and sound, and do it, like Sub said, in 6 years? (once they had Beatlemania going that is). They started around 1957 in one way or another, with various members coming and going at first. But it was Lennon who was the foundation, the leader of all the versions of his band. He choose who was to be in the bands, and his greatest decision was to include a young Paul, (because Paul could tune a guitar the right way, and knew all the words to a certain song that I can't think of the title right now, (something "Rock" as the title). Damn!!!!

When I watch their videos now, and put on an album when driving on vacations, it feels and sounds fresh still.

Magic caught on tape, for sure!

Imagine their songs ONLY being found in written music years later, and someone plays it and says, "This is Beatles music"!

I don't think so. And maybe just how Mozart isn't really being heard today either. But even more so with The Beatles, for having all the sounds and skills of all the instruments and Martin's production.

Better keep those CD's around,,and transfer them onto whatever the future sound formats will be invented. Just have to hope ears aren't evolved ot hear just pitch control and clicked songs!

John

I'm stunned. I think your post will change the way I write.

Good post John (and Samuel's comment drove home the point that there is a lot of great info in there).

Kevin

Here is a cool article from CNN about their 'magic'.

While I share Sub's feelings about Zeppelin (also my favorite band), I will say that song-writing doesn't get any better than Lennon and McCartney. I don't think they ever wrote a bad song. But while I don't consider the Beatles my 'favorite band' of all time, I have more songs from them in my itunes than I do of any other band. They just had so many GREAT songs -- the kind that stick in your head and never go away.

Just the other day, the song HELP popped up in my head out of the blue and wouldn't go away (It is HARD as HELL to get the Beatles out of your head after listening to their music, which is why I generally try not to listen when it is close to bed time. LOL). The Beatles records are more like greatest hits albums than anything else.


The Beatles arrive in New York on February 7, 1964

(CNN) -- It was all in the future then.

Turn left at Greenland. Carnegie Hall. He's very clean, isn't he? You've got to hide your love away. "Rubber Soul." Bigger than Jesus. LSD. Let me take you down. "Sgt. Pepper." All you need is love. The maharishi. Yoko and Linda. The rooftop concert. You never give me your money. Paul is dead. April 1970. "Let It Be."

It was all in the future then. At the time, on February 7, 1964, the Beatles were four young men heading across the Atlantic on Pan Am Flight 101. They were accompanied by their manager, Brian Epstein, and friends Mal Evans and Neil Aspinall; producer Phil Spector and his group the Ronettes; and a handful of journalists.

The Beatles were heading for New York for an appearance on "The Ed Sullivan Show," followed by a handful of concert dates. Then they'd go back home.

Photographer Robert Freeman, who took the cover photos for every Beatles album from "With the Beatles" to "Rubber Soul," was on the plane. He remembers them as cool, cracking jokes. "They weren't nervous. It was just another thing to deal with," he said.

But maybe they were a little concerned.

Yes, the group had the No. 1 U.S. single -- "I Want to Hold Your Hand." Yes, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr were vaguely aware that Beatlemania -- which had overtaken Britain and much of Europe -- was showing signs of erupting in the United States.

But still: We were talking about America.

"The thing is, in America, it just seemed ridiculous -- I mean, the idea of having a hit record over there," Lennon later recalled. "It was just something you could never do."

"[Harrison] mentioned all the big American stars who'd come across to Britain," recalled a reporter for the Beatles' hometown paper, the Liverpool Echo, in Philip Norman's biography "Shout! The Beatles in Their Generation." "He'd been across [to the States], unlike the others; he knew what the place was like.

" 'They've got everything over there,' Harrison said. 'What do they want us for?' "

'We needed something'

Maybe it was just time. The country was in a funk. President Kennedy was dead, shot 77 days earlier.

"I remember the period well," recalled Billboard chart historian Fred Bronson, author of "The Billboard Book of No. 1 Hits." "Living through it, I didn't think we thought we needed something to lift the nation up. It's only looking back on it now, you realize the nation was depressed. I think now it's obvious -- we needed something."

Maybe it was just talent. Martin Goldsmith, author of the recent "The Beatles Come to America" (Wiley), said he believes the band would have swept the United States even if Kennedy hadn't been assassinated. "Lennon and McCartney were superb composers -- their songs were brilliant and remain brilliant," he observes.

He starts singing "I Want to Hold Your Hand," with its phrases dipping down the musical scale -- "Oh yeah I'll/Tell you something/I think you'll understand/When I'll/Say that something" -- and then jumping an octave -- "I want to hold your HAAAANDDD!"

"The structure underpins the message. It's very simple and very profound at the same time," Goldsmith said

Maybe it was just money and media. Capitol Records, which had rejected three Beatles singles in 1963 (the songs, released on other labels, bombed miserably), poured $50,000 into a promotional campaign. Celebrities wore Beatle wigs. An amused Jack Paar played a clip of the Beatles on his talk show. "The Beatles Are Coming" stickers were everywhere.

Betting on the future

Or maybe it was magic, the whole ball of wax, a phenomenon waiting to happen.

The Beatles perform on "The Ed Sullivan Show."

Or consider this: In October 1963, Ed Sullivan and his wife were in London, stuck at Heathrow Airport because of the tumult surrounding a Beatles arrival from Sweden. When he found out what was causing the delay, Sullivan, who had the highest-rated variety show in America -- a Sunday night ritual for millions -- filed the name of the group away.

Accounts diverge about what happened next. About two weeks later Epstein flew to New York, where he had arranged a meeting with Sullivan. According to "Shout!," the host planned to book them as a novelty act for one show. But a recent article in American History maintains Sullivan wanted them for three.

At any rate, the Beatles were booked as headliners for three consecutive shows. Again, before they'd had a hit in America.

Which is how, on February 9, 1964, Sullivan looked out at the 728-seat CBS auditorium jam-packed with a handful of adults, boys and apparently hundreds of screaming girls and announced, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles!"

The invasion of youth culture

The Sullivan show remains one of the highest-rated nonsports programs of all time. Nielsen estimates 45 percent of the country watched the show -- more than 73 million people then. Apocryphal tales maintain that not a single crime was committed in New York during the Sullivan hour.

From there, it was a whole new world.

In his satiric, semifictional Beatles biography "Paperback Writer," author Mark Shipper -- playing fast and loose with the facts -- invented a debut album for the group. "We're Gonna Change the Face of Pop Music Forever," it was titled.

It's a joke.

But think: "Sullivan" cemented its stature as the place to see the latest rock 'n' roll acts. Bernstein went on to promote the Beatles' 1965 and 1966 landmark Shea Stadium concerts; he later offered $100 million for a 1976 reunion show.

The British Invasion came in a rush. The Rolling Stones, the Animals, the Kinks, the Dave Clark Five, on down to Herman's Hermits and Freddy and the Dreamers.

"I think [the Beatles] allowed the British Invasion to happen. I don't think any of those groups would have paved the way," Bronson said.

And then there was youth culture.

The Beatles had long hair; men grew their hair long. Youthful pop music wasn't taken seriously; the Beatles got people to take it seriously.

One generation "got" it all, another didn't. Into that generation gap fell Vietnam, women's liberation, ideas about civil rights, the sexual revolution, and on and on and on and on.

"In many ways, the Beatles' arrival set off a wave of changes," Goldsmith notes.

But at the time, they were four young men traveling to the United States.

And it was all in the future then.


BEATLES FACT
On April 4, 1964, the Beatles had the top five songs on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart -- an achievement never equaled.

BEATLES FACT
Songs played on the February 9, 1964, "Ed Sullivan Show":

• "All My Loving"
• "Till There Was You"
• "She Loves You"
• "I Saw Her Standing There"
• "I Want to Hold Your Hand"

BEATLES FACT
"The Ed Sullivan Show" received more than 50,000 requests for its 728 seats -- more than it had gotten for Elvis Presley's 1956 appearance.
Consider this: In August 1963, a New York agent named Sid Bernstein reserved Carnegie Hall for a Beatles concert. He scheduled it for six months later -- February 12, 1964. He was going completely on gut instinct; at the time, the group couldn't have been arrested in America.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/05/beatles.40/

Just to keep this thread going,

(1) Name your favorite Beatles song - mine is either 'Blackbird' OR 'Eleanor Rigby' (which is playing right now on my itunes)

(2) Name your favorite Beatles album - mine is either 'Revolver' OR 'Sgt. Pepper'

Cool article!

Ok,

1. The song that I feel IS The Beatles for many reasons, including music wise, poetry wise and message wise, (and to mention that first satellite feed to the world for the debut of the song), is:

"All You Need Is Love" If no other song was ever done by them, they still would have been talked about as the best one-hit wonder group and song. Done!

2. "Rubber Soul", for the change into the introspective writings and very imaginable Paul songs, along with Harrison penning some killers, and the style and focus on message that would lead to All You Need Is Love; a few years later, has this as my favorite Beatles album....BUT, Revolver is like part two Rubber Soul, and has those classics. But got to go with the initial innovation, breakthrough to another level album, "Rubber Soul". A breakout from the simple poppy tunes, (although still great for what they were). Just that the Rubber Soul songs showed their deep writing and creative skills that would also later become Pepper and Mystery Tour!

For me anyway,

John

I just can't do the favorite thing when it comes to the Beatles...I've never stopped listening to them and I bounce back and forth throughout the catalog. (My least favorite is "If You've Got Trouble".)

But I'll keep the thread going by digging a little into their "musical economy".

Most of their songs use very few syllables. Really. I don't mean they used small words, but their lyrics use fewer metrical beats than most of the lyrics we read on our boards. Consider how much happens musically within each of these bits:

This happened once before (6)
When I came to your door (6)
No reply (3)

or

You say you've lost your love (6)
Well I saw her yesterday (7)
It's you she's thinking of (6)
And she told me what to say (7)

I want you (3)
I want you so bad (5)

Lady Madonna (5)
Children at your feet (5)
Wonder how you manage to make ends meet (10)

Hey Jude (2)
Don't make it bad (4)

It has always seemed clear to me that these guys probably never wrote a lyric first, unless it was to jot down an idea for a topic. They picked up their guitars and wrote from the standpoint of musical impact and found the right lyrics to match the feeling. And when you condense this sort of thing down to it's essence...you end up with less notes (words) and more focus on driving home the hook ("She loves you yeah yeah yeah (6)...").

It's rock and roll poetry.

Hey Mark K

Very Astute observation there... and interesting that we feel we need to use so many words to tell the story.. I know I am personally guilty of that... the rare exception is when I write as you mentioned...without thought of lyrics and just let them flow from the music... I have a few that I've done that way and noticed the economies of scale that have come along as a result..

Truly the Beatles were masters of the written word...It seems that they could convey the whole message within a few words and their lyrics were quite conversational... think of "She loves you" (as you mentioned)

You think you've lost your love
Well I say her yesterday
It's you she's thinking of
And she told me what to say

It's like Lennon and McCartney are sitting right down with you and consoling you... so very conversational and years ahead of their time in that department. What's interesting is they don't spend a lot of time overdeveloping the story... or painting images for you to see. (They did that quite a bit late)For the most part they just used words to convey the story and let you decide who the characters were.

Another great lyric for that example was "You're gonna lose that girl"

You're gonna lose that girl (yes yes you're gonna lose that girl)
You're gonna lose that girl (yes yes you're gonna lose that girl)
You're gonna lose (lose that girl)

If you don't take her out tonight
She's gonna change her mind (She's gonna change her mind)
And I will take her out tonight
And I will treat her kind (I'm gonna treat her kind)

Very simple little lines, but they convey the story of a woman's champion against a lover who just doesn't seem to care.. and yet somehow the singer comes across not as someone waiting to steal the prize, but someone who's trying to pick up the pieces... yet he doesn't use this contrived story of a bar or a picnic... there is no setting it leaves it very open to the listeners imagination... which helps personalize the lyrics...It's genius and yet at the same time so simple... it goes back to the idea of poetry... simple musings kept short and to the point.. but tied together in a nice little package that you can listen to.

What we need to ask ourselves is why are we trying so hard? The Beatles did what they did in response to what was wanted yes, but they did so in a way were "they" made what they were doing popular... they didn't wait for some record executive to "get it" they pushed ahead and said we know were good and we'll prove it! It's people like that, that become great... it's that entrepreneurial spirit... and even with being great musicians and writers... without that spirit they'd be begging for spare change on the side of the road... (Nothing against those who do that)...

So again if we strive to be the best and know were the best because we've pushed for that, then why can't we be great as well.. All it takes is the desire to do something new and different and dare I say...? Risky...

Remember that they spent years playing clubs in Hamburg and not really getting anywhere.. they could just as easy been written off except that Brian Epstein saw and heard something in them... was he some major record producer? Hardly! His father owned a record store... he had some connections, but he wasn't some major producer... they still could have flopped at that point, but they didn't because they all believed if they tried hard enough they'd make it...

So in conclusion whether you're a writer musician or both... the only way you're going to make your goal is to take risks and understand that you might never make it, but don't give up! Cause it's the persistence that pays off!
Derek

I truly enjoyed reading this post! Like someone else said, it will influence how I write. Thanks Rblight, now Help is in my head!

I have to say my favorite by the Beatles is from the Abby Road Lp..

Something and Oh Darling come to mind

My favorite is the White Album - it's like they were speaking drectly to me - they were like the 4 angels of God telling me to "do things..."

It's there - it's all there - you can hear it...

out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power - Revelation 9:3 (or perhaps, Revolution #9)
locusts = beetles = Beatles

Gee whiz, Ralph--asking for favorite Beatles' songs and albums is kinda like asking someone, "Which of your children are your favorite"? LOL.

I'll give 'er the ol' sporting try though

Song--Lovely Rita or Blackbird (I'm a Paul man, I guess)

Album--I hate to say Sgt. Pepper cause it's so obvious. Discounting that one, I would have to say Revolver or Rubber Soul. Though I really like the Beatles for Sale album alot, too.

Interesting thing I read the other day that just blew my mind--they recorded Sgt. Pepper on four-track equipment. George Martin said if they had had the technology available today, it wouldn't have been nearly as good an album. Because of the four tracks and bouncing, they had to plan everything out waaaaaaaaaay ahead of time.

Eric

A kid I went to high school with taught me the fingering of "Blackbird" on the guitar. It was technically very hard to play because the "spread" of the fingers and the slide up the neck were happening at the same time, but if you played it right, it sounded like the real McCoy. I only remember part of it now. When you posted how short the recording actually was, I could hardly believe it because it must have taken me 2 months to learn to play it smooth. But maybe the lesson here is that we should write directly to the point, stay on point and when we have said what we wanted to say and have played what we wanted to play, stop. Forget chorus, verse, pre chorus, bridge etc.

I got an early Willy Nelson CD a few years ago and while the songs were not great (because he was forced to write for the Nashville machine at that time), some of the songs were actually less than on minute. Nothing on it was longer than 2 minutes 20 seconds. They were recorded about 1959 to 1964 I think.

I imagine playing for a buncha drunken Germans for a living (for a while) gave Lennon The Idea to write Pretty Simple, Basic/Few English Word Lyrics. Simple usually IS better...an audience "Gets It" a lot quicker.

I talked to an ol' Florida Promoter fellah a year or so ago. Said "The Beatles used the same method to Hit in The US as Frank Sinatra did: Their Promoter hired a BUNCH of Gals to SCREAM at their Opening Gigs...& The Rest is History." Think he also mentioned The Stones had a US "Tour" ahead of the Beatles...& a Fla Promoter rented a Hall for the Stones first Fla. Event...& sold alla 8 tickets/hadda refund it all/lost his butt.

I think The Beatles endeared themselves to the USA when the Reporters asked 'em all sorts of Questions when they landed. "What do ya call that HAIRDO?" one asked Ringo..."Herbie" I think was his answer...and that Cheekiness was VERY Endearing to all us Rebellious Teenagers at the time. They were Masters.

In Their Beginning here, I think they were in a dead heat with "The Dave Clark 5" for Popularity...but frankly Lennon-McC were definitely the better Songwriters/had better Promoters.

"I Want to Hold Your Hand" was that kinda Universal-Feel Song that made America Take Note They Were Here. "I Saw Her Standing There" was such a Great, Early Ass-Kickin' Rock Tune..there was NO turning back..& as their Music got More & More COMPLICATED they kept on getting More & More Interesting. (I think their Audience got more & more Drug-Oriented/Influenced at the same rate They Did.) I discovered The Stones somewhere between Revolver & Rubber Soul...& got a big kick out of the Beatles' Influence on the Stones when "Their Satanic Majesties Request" came out with (Think it was on this'n') "You Can't Always Get What You Want"...with a Kid Choir & London Philharmonic backin' them up..to "Keep Up With The Beatles' Sound"...in-essence.

For some reason, I'd tuned the BS out by the time of The White Album..."Dear Prudence" for instance felt like a good waste of Vinyl..but to each their own.

Fave Song (& Beatle) "Imagine"/John Lennon
Fave Album: "Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band"...(& the "Goodnight" at the end...heh!)

Fave '60's Quote, quite taken Out Of Context, I'll add:
"The Beatles are bigger than Jesus"...

Fave Songs on The Air: "Norwegian Wood"...heh-heh...& "Lucy in The Sky (With Diamonds)" was an even Bigger "Eyebrow Riser"---

Goodnight!
Ol' Stan

Stan ol' buddy, pal o' mine, amigo, You just about nailed it, except that I think that the cheekiness was choreographed.
Doesn't these same clever funny answers to reporters questions also show up in "A Hard Day's Night"? Yes , they were charming lads but I still believe that they had handlers, someone to make them rehearse what they were going to say when they got here. I don't believe that it was all ad lib. It was show biz.
I don't know why you don't like "Dear Prudence". It's such a pretty song but I never could figure out the chords. My favorite was "Happiness Is A Warm Gun". The first few bars are a stoners dream (of course I was in high school then). "I need a fix 'cause I'm goin' down", "Mother Superior jumped the gun". Ben

I've been doing "Dear Prudence" for...well...since it came out. And not a month or so goes bye where someone at a gig doesn't come up and tell me it's one of their favorite Beatles songs. Just saying...

Interesting, everybody.

I didn't discover the Beatles until 1968, when I developed a girlfriend, and she and her friends all listened to this stuff. I never had before. I had a lot of catching up to do. Lennon and McCartney were a fabulous writing team, and I don't think there's a single Beatles song I don't like. (And I don't think I could say that about any other writer or writing team.)

Favorite album is a tossup, I think, between the White Album and "Meet the Beatles!" Yes, big disparity in styles there, but I like it all. Favorite song? That took a little thinking, but probably "When I'm Sixty-Four." And I couldn't really tell you why.

In my opinion, all those ad-lib comments weren't exactly rehearsed--I think it's just they spent so much time together, speculating about things like that and talking like that, that it became natural. I thought it was obvious they loved the attention, even when they were acting shy about it.

Joe

There's a book by Larry Kane, a long time Philadelphia TV news reporter/anchor. He got an assignment to cover The Beatles during their first tour, start to finish. Got asked back for the second. The Beatles and Brian Epstein accepted him for this rare insider's look-see job. The Beatles and Larry became good friends, especially Lennon and Kane. Through the years, Larry Kane and Lennon would get together while Lennon was around the Philly area. He even did the weather for one major station news show when Kane was anchor. I saw it live. Funny.

In the book, Larry Kane describes the day to day, even hour by hour at times events and behind the scenes of The Beatles. He was with them in the hotels, at the rehearsals, at meals, before, at, and after the news conferences, and just about all the time minus showers and such. He was kept just out of pictures of course, as was Mal Evans and Neil Aspinal.

According to Kane, ALL of their words, actions and such were all what the boys wanted to say and do. He was amazed at their quick wit and charm. He said they had endless energy, and a love for comedy. Kane says in his book that the boys were even funnier and smarter for comments than even in those press conferences. He said they were natural comedians, with Lennon telling him the Marx Brothers were their comedic heroes. They had a dress code that Brian wanted, and to be on time for all showings. The rest was all them, according to Kane.

He explains that the boys were upfront with everything, and there was just their great energy and wit, and sometimes fright on the planes to write about. He goes through the whole tour turning from a man who disliked the young pop scene and music, to being one of their biggest fans. And as he put, mainly for their honesty and charm. But he grew to love their style of music too.

So, who knows where someone came up with the made up jokes thing. Doesn't sound like it went down like that, and not according to all the insider books, and even later ones by Lennon, who didn;t mind telling a straight answer about facts of what they did. Anyone can see the surprise on Paul's face, or the sudden laugh of Harrison, as things are quickly answered form those rapid fire questions at any press conference. Anthology CD's also cover events before and after as it happened. Meetings too. Interviews with all of them as well.

Guess that's how it goes though.....Always hearsay to pass of as facts. (As if they need defending though! Assumptions are made all the time. Better to go with people who were there, for anything. The also check their background, (credibility). Kane is an awarded "journalist". Still out there,,,,retired I think though.

His cool book is very revealing to the hour by hour happenings. Worth the read. If I get the title come to me, or I dig up the book again, I'll edit this. Read it last year, for the second time. It's like taking the steps with him on that long, wild journey. MANY things no one has heard about too much, if at all for some. Backstage happenings of fearful events, and a whole lot of Birdseye view info.

John, if I was wrong in assuming that they were rehearsed, I stand corrected. This was my own opinion and I didn't hear it from anyone else.
I got the idea from watching "A Hard Days Night" years ago. I believe that there was a press conference scene in the movie. The question "How did you find America"? sounds like a loaded question with only one answer "We turned left a Greenland". I never believed that it was made up on the fly. I could be wrong. Ben

I think 3 minute radio friendly songs that the Beatles recorded in Abbey Road studios with Alan Parsons/Geoge Martin boggles my mind. I've been recording 20 minute improvisations on my Korg Triton synthesizer [elektronic music]. classical flute solos in the style of Edgar Varese [14 minutes]. to have so many people on the same page in one place [Abbey Road studios] is mind boggling to me. even more incredible is what Alan Parsons/Paul McCartney are doin NOWADAYS. it's hard findin somethin like that goin on in South Carolina. www.curciomusic.com

"Dear Prudence" was written about actress Mia Farrow's sister, Prudence when they were all doing the Yogi thing in India ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Prudence ). I read somewhere else that John had Donavon show him that style of fingerpicking on the same trip and then John used it here for the first time (or something like that).

Kevin

Song Length,
You should work out a song until it sounds good. Do not try to write to some artificial length of time. If you do it will sound like that. Two and one half to three and on half minutes is pretty good. Anything shorter than two minutes may not be complete and much longer songs may get too repetive.

Paul has actually said this in interviews -- that he prefers to start with the music and does the lyrics last.

It might surprise you to know that there are actually people in the world who don't have a clue who the Beatles are. Sometimes 20% of the students I have in my classes can't name you a Beatles song or even tell you who they are. Sadly, I have NEVER had a student who DOESN'T know who Brittany Spears is. She doesn't even belong in the same sentence with the Beatles, .... make that the same paragraph, ..... make that the same book, ..... make that the same library ....

HiDee Bro Benny!

I'd heard Prudence was Lennon's Mum... The song was just a Wee Bit WAYyyy too-Saccharine for yers-truly. Guess I'd make a Good Manson Family Member...I was allus Real Fond of "Helter Skelter", the Vocal & Musical Shenanigans on that Cut were Terrific, right down to the "I got BLISTERS on mah FINGERS" ad lib.

The British as a whole have a Great Wit...& the Beatles brought their share with them. "You've been a naughty girl/you've let your knickers down" was one of those Classic Lines that the Old Folks let-Airplay (Such a Fine Admonition~) and Us Evil Cats just Thrived-On back in that era.

They're STILL lots of fun to listen to today..stoned OR sober..thanks TO that Great Wit between the Grooves. (Or Pits, as in Nowadaze!~) ;-)>

Bang-Bang..Shoot..Shoot--
Number Nine..heh-heh!
Stan

The Beatles were a little before my time, breaking up before I was old enough to buy records (although my parents had a few Beatles albums in with all their Johnny Cash and Guy Lombardo albums).

I thought Julia was his mum. Maybe his aunt.

Humm,
Today's students don't know who the Beatles are! I bet they don't know who Elvis is either. I tink, I saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show, if my memory serves me right. Now who is Ed Sullivan? Sooo long ago. Television was just beginning to be established in the American Home. Color was fairly new. Expensive too.

I LOVED that song too. Unfortunately, it became forever linked to Manson the way that way that AC/DC's Night Prowler became forever connected to Richard Ramirez.

I prefer the Beatles later stuff to their earlier stuff, which was written for the radio. The later stuff was much more artistic and sounds to me much less dated than their early stuff. As good as it is, 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' sounds like it was recorded in the 60s; 'Helter Skelter' doesn't.

If it is any comfort to you, far more young people today know who the Beatles are than know who the president of the USA was in 1966.

I will be honest with you ... I never got Elvis. Maybe it was because I saw more of his 'cheesy' movie than I listened to his music growing up. The only Elvis song I ever liked was 'Kentucky Rain'. His voice grated on my ears. I don't know why. He was a better singer than Dylan or Neil Young and neither of those guys bothered me.

Ironically, where I grew up, Elvis was considered 'hillbilly' music, not rock & roll, which most of us thought started with the Beatles.

Hey Stan,
Julia was Lennon's Mom.

Steve

Here is the story behind I AM THE WALRUS according to John's best friend and schoolmate Pete Shotton.

This excerpt is from Pete Shotton's excellent book 'The Beatles, Lennon And Me' (originally published as "John Lennon In My Life", 1983, Stein and Day Publishers... not to be confused with "In My Life - John Lennon Remembered" by Kevin Howlett and Mark Lewisohn).

(If you're not familiar, Pete Shotton was Lennon's closest boyhood pal, an original member of the Quarrymen (until John broke the washboard over Pete's head!), and a close friend and confidant of John's to the very end.)

From page 217:

"One afternoon, while taking "lucky dips" into the day's sack of fan mail, John, much to both our amusement, chanced to pull out a letter from a student at Quarry Bank. Following the usual expressions of adoration, this lad revealed that his literature master was playing Beatles songs in class; after the boys all took their turns analyzing the lyrics, the teacher would weigh in with his own interpretation of what the Beatles were really talking about. (This, of course, was the same institution of learning whose headmaster had summed up young Lennon's prospects with the words: "This boy is bound to fail.")

"John and I howled in laughter over the absurdity of it all. "Pete," he said, "what's that 'Dead Dog's Eye' song we used to sing when we were at Quarry Bank?" I thought for a moment and it all came back to me:

Yellow matter custard, green slop pie,
All mixed together with a dead dog's eye,
Slap it on a butty, ten foot thick,
Then wash it all down with a cup of cold sick.
"That's it!" said John. "Fantastic!" He found a pen commenved scribbling: "Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye...." Such was the genisis of "I Am the Walrus" (The Walrus itself was to materialize alter, almost literally stepping out of a page in Lewis Carroll's 'Through the Looking Glass')

Inspired by the picture of that Quarry Bank literature master pontificating about the symbolism of Lennon-McCartney, John threw in the most ludicrous images his imagination could conjure. He thought of "semolina" (an insipid pudding we'd been forced to eat as kids) and "pilchard" (a sardine we often fed to our cats). Semolina pilchard climbing up the Eiffel Tower....," John intoned, writing it down with considerable relish.

He turned to me, smiling. "let the f*ckers work THAT one out, Pete."

Steve

Bill Haley and the Comets were a bit before Elvis and had a Hit called ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK in 1954 or 55. Elvis arrived in 1956.
He tried Country first but there were so many good Country Artists he had a hard time breaking in. Don't know exactly why he changed but it happened. At the time he was described as too Rock for Country Stations and too Country for Rock Stations of which were mostly situated in the East of which played a more Eastern type of Pop/Punk/Blues type music by mostly Artists from the Area. Country Music was in the Record stores but wasn't played on the radio.

It wasn't until the 70's that country music went nation wide where it never played before. That was because the stations said they would play country if the Steel Guitar and Fiddle was removed and replaced by strings. Can't say it was a sucess as hard country fans rejected it in droves. I have records that were played once and never played again.

Ok Rblight I didn't want to have to do this...

But I picked my favorite song and album

Favorite song... "I'm only sleeping". There is a lot going on in the simple little song... I always thought that the guitars were just looped backwards... I did a google check and no... John and George actually listened to themeselves being looped backwards and the solo and then replicated it live....Talk about some amazing talent... not sure how they did it, but wow the effect it has is incredible... very psychedelic and really some of the first psychedelic music ever...

On a side note did anyone know the Beatles were the first to have feedback on a hit song? The song is "I feel fine" It's right in the opening I think John picks the low E open string and then touches it with his thumb causeing just a little feedback...

Oh and my favorite album is Revolver... mostly because I feel it kinda didn't get the same level of respect that Sgt. Peppers did, but if you asked me Revolver is ten time the album Sgt. Peppers is...
JMO
Derek

The PRICE of being a Beatle (you think he would be use to it by now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC9MRRGwT7c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zvQQgRjMA&feature=related

Derek, I know John, George and Ringo have said Revolver was their individual favorite album. not sure about Paul. Probably Pepper is his as it was his concept.

Steve

Here is an interview where Lennon blasts the media for their dislike of Yoko. Some pretty funny stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgutE0OClls&feature=related

Hey Little Stevie


Yeah I was never really a Paul fan... I mean I like some of his stuff and he has talent, but I've always been a huge fan of lennons and I like most of George's stuff... Still ya gotta give Paul props.. he was the most sucessful post Beatle solo artist of the four. That and I think he's a knight now?
Derek

Paul on song-writing with the computer for his classical album

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNauNWi6drQ

Paul and John in an earlier interview about their writing methods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU-igqLFd2s&feature=related

The feedback wasn't intentional but they decided to keep it in the song. Ben

Derek,
I tend to divide their career into two eras. From their first album up to Revolver and then from Pepper till Abbey Road. I liked more of Lennon's songs in the first era and more of what Paul did in the latter. Paul was more melodic in his songs for the most part although Lennon was as well. If you look at their early albums, Lennon had the slightly more of the cuts where later it was more of Paul than Lennon.

Paul's bass lines from Paperback Writer on were very melodic and ground breaking in their own right, especially on Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour. My two favorite albums personally were A Hard Day's Night and Magical Mystery tour because the bulk of my favorite songs as a kid came from those two. My top five favorite songs are:

Penny Lane
I Should Have Known Better
I'll Cry Instead
I'm Happy Just To Dance With You
I Am the Walrus

From the rest I couldn't choose. As for I'M HAPPY JUST TO DANCE WITH YOU, you'll never a better or more creative rhythm guitar part. Amazing.

Pepper was great musically and lyrically, especially "A Day In The Life" and Paul played bass like a lead instrument which is still amazing for the bass lines he played. Listen to the bass line on "Little Help From My Friends." The second side of Abbey Road, the medley is amazing. What a way to thread together a bunch of unfinished songs into one cohesive unit.

Those are a few thoughts for a lifelong Beatlemanic. I've suffered from B.M. (Beatlemania0 from the Sulivan shows till now. There's no cure for me. I still listen to their music more than anything else along with the post surf/car songs of the Beach Boys. Brian Wilson truly is a musical genius. Ask Paul or George Martin.

Steve

I love the instrumentation and arrangement of that song. Flute, french horn/trumpet. They really made use of a wide range of classical instruments in their stuff. You can see the impact that had on groups like Queen and Oasis that cite them as influences.

For John D. - Video and story behind the live worldwide broadcast of 'All You Need is Love' (look closely and you will see Mick Jagger in the crowd singing along).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnzbR-DRvCU