Who's Online Now
10 members (Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, couchgrouch, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill), 4,088 guests, and 270 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Does Billy Joel belong in top 10?
by Fdemetrio - 03/28/24 11:10 PM
It Is Done
by Sunset Poet - 03/28/24 07:44 PM
Music Industry Summit, Athens Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/28/24 06:14 PM
Can you save me from me
by VNORTH2 - 03/28/24 03:11 PM
As human as yo
by ckiphen - 03/28/24 09:55 AM
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
She’s missing but she ain’t missing him
by ckiphen - 03/23/24 08:44 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Make my dreams come true
by ckiphen - 03/22/24 10:51 AM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,990
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,126
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,120
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,032
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 13 of 28 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 27 28
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Well.. that should put that issue (i.e. the number of plays being outside of the judging system) to rest. Thanks Danny.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Quote
Daniel from OurStage here. Every song is judged but you're not guarenteed to get a song, even if you do lots of battles. They get distributed across lots of different judgers. That songs on the bottom stay on the bottom, are generally an indication of the fan preference. But you can't determine the judging fairness based only on the songs you are presented to judge.


OK
Then I guess I have truly misjudged my song and so have the other follks below 157th in the Southern Rock Channel.
The 157th song is a spoken announcement from (I assume) ourstage introducing the new channel.
My song is ranked worse than that announcement and has been since the Day I uploaded it. I guess I was right. I am wasting my time.
I think I might be better off somewhere else.
Thanks for the opportunity.

For those of you doing well, Good luck

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 06/16/08 12:24 AM.

Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Bill,

I think you could take another approach and ask why the songs aren't doing that well. I just listened to the 3 track you have posted. The problem is the vocals just aren't as good as the songs that are doing well. I've said here over and over that if you don't have at least an above average vocal, even on a demo, you're making it nearly impossible for anyone to love your work. (that includes publishers, labels, artists you want to work with or fans). Sure.. in a few cases a song might be so amazing that folks will still connect, but it's like starting a 100 yard dash 90 yards behind everyone else.

Before you take offense to this, there's a huge number of great writers out there who aren't great vocalists. And there's also a lot of singers who are limited that have to be very careful what they sing and when. If you're determined to be an artist, I'd suggest finding songs (or writing songs) that fit your vocal abilities more effectively than those 3. (the song in Contemporary is the closest to working, but that song is hardly "soft rock/contemporary" (which I would consider to be artists like Barry Manilow, The Carpenters, Bread etc.) so it's really out of genre). If you're not stuck on being an artist, then look for some folks who can sing the material you want to write better than you can. Worry less about a full demo and more about finding the right voice to present your work alongside a guitar track. That will get you WAY farther along.

Giving up or leaving simply because you aren't getting the approval you seek is a bad idea if you truly seek approval. Instead you need to learn what it is you're not doing right to connect to folks. You also shouldn't take it personally because very few if any of those voting even know who you are, so it's not personal in any way. If, on the other hand, you could care less what others think about your music, then why get annoyed when you don't rank well? Either way, I don't think your response makes a lot of sense. You've always struck me as someone who wants to get better and find ways to reach listeners and make them want more. Why not use this as a tool (of many) to do just that?

Remember.. there are almost no judges who are screening on the basis of whether you can writer a good song. If they are turned off by a vocal, they are never going to listen long enough to make that determination. And that is an honest and real world hurdle that everyone has to get over to find success or an audience for their work. Those that say recording quality, or far more importantly, vocal performance quality, don't mean anything are likely either selling you something or unaware of reality in this very competitive business.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Something about a competition...everyone wants to be the winner.

But there's always only one, and then there's a huge pile of great tunes and songwriting right behind. I still see the value of this place being in getting heard...not the number you achieve.

Hey, I just got another number one on Soundclick! For some reason, no major label has contacted me to congratulate me on that...what's up with that?

I'll keep putting songs up, but not because I'm expecting to win. If I did, I'd be whooping it up...but the reason I put songs up is to get them heard and to see how they fly. I'm glad this place is there.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Brian
I am not offended at all
But lets face it...They are voting a spoken announcement by Ourstage Higher than my song. that's pretty sad.
I am not a performer. I am not a singer. They don't have a songwriter channel. They have a singer/songwriter channel.
If the voters are only interested in great vocals or great production then I guess I am not going to do well there.
If they are interested in good lyrics or good story songs I might have a chance but we all know lyrics are usually at the bottom of the list.
I have a couple songs that are demos with excellent vocalists but I am reluctant to put them up because they are Demos, not masters.
The legal issue is still there. I don't think it is legal to earn money from a demo so I don't put them up.

As far as the position of my song in Southern Rock....well if it is that bad...so bad that it cannot even compete with an announcement by Ourstage(Hungry Channels)..... well then I do not deserve to be there.
I at least sing on key and can carry a tune. There are songs on there where the singers are so bad I cringe when I listen to them. Or the recording is so bad you cannot even understand the vocals. But that is just my opinion. You cannot argue with the vote. It is what it is.


Last edited by Bill Robinson; 06/16/08 02:31 AM.

Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,827
Top 50 Poster
Offline
Top 50 Poster
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,827
Hey Bill,

Take heart mate. My current entry in Comtemporary did so badly at the bottom of the pile that I pulled it. And apart from the song itself, that song has a top notch vocalist.

Some songs work, some don't. Don't sweat it, it doesn't mean too much in the big scheme of things. Ourstage is a good tool, but not the only one.

Try another song. Rework one over with a better vocalist. ( I can't sing for sh*t, so I'm allowed to say that ) Just take it in your stride, and go write another one. But use Ourstage for what it is, it's a usefull resource.

cheers, niteshift

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
I'm not sweatin' it Nite.
Even Elvis had a few clunkers.
And I bet the Beatles left a few in the can. LOL.


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
So getting back to the original topic at hand:

Where does your song rank on Ourstage and what categories are you entered in? JPF members have won 3 straight $5000 dollar grand prizes, 2 of which are posters here on the boards. Let's go for 4 in a row!

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Currently:

Roll Daddy Roll 147th in Indie Rock (out of 790)
Sitting By The Fire 275th in Country (out of 425)
Town On The Edge 380th in Americana / Alt Country (out of 509 )
Hey American Dream 587th in Alt. Rock (out of 1012)

I'm probably in the same boat as Bill -- my vox are not winning any fans (and Bill stays on key better than I do!). It would be nice to find a local vocalist to do some lead singing for me, but I haven't looked very hard yet.

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
In the interest in continued participation I will post my results to date.

One Hell of a Good Storm
Southern Rock 160 out of 163
This is really a let down. I thought this a good song.It had good reviews by a couple publishers, Song-U, and a couple Pro critiques.

Remember Me
Country 271 out of 425
But...gets played quite a lot.

Girls With Big Boy Toys
Contemporary/Soft Rock 451 out of 670
Surprising me I thought the title would elicit more plays.

Crazy Redhead Woman
Acoustic 589 out of 807
Another surprise this one went to #1 on Soundclick. Maybe wrong channel?

Yesterday So Many Years Ago
Americana 345 out of 530
Another surprise..I thought this one would do better. It has been favorited tho.

This Would be His Last Time.
Singer/ songwriter 724 out of 1022
Another bit of a surprise. I did think it would do better. But I think it may be in the wrong channel. This is a gritty song. Tough subject.
It has been favorited too.

Well at least I am kind of in the middle on a couple A bit below Average ain't bad for an old man with no training. Ha!

To be quite Honest I thought I would do better. I never expected to win but I also did not expect to be this low.
I have done better on other sites...Curious.

I'd still like to know how many times these come up for judging and who is judging. Is it FANS or PEERS.

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 06/16/08 01:40 PM.

Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
"Thanks Again" Southern Rock/Blues 57 out of 163
"The Border Song" Folk 116 out of 437
"Perfect Day" Acoustic 139 out of 807
"Broken Mother's Prayer" Country 261 out of 425

I agree with Brian about people voting based on vocal performance quality; however, I would add that I'm glad Bob Dylan and Neil Young weren't just cast aside because of their vocals.

Eric


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
I've got one song, "Papa Hawg" that's 22nd in instrumental now. It was up to 5, dropped back to 93, and has moved up again.

Another song, "Graduation" is 183rd in New Age/World.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
"Eldorado" - 56th in Indie Rock
"All I See Is You" - 91st in Folk
"Johnny Put Your Gun Down" - 112th in Hard Rock
"Twenty Chickens for a Saddle" - 196th in Country

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,389
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,389
I just checked on mine for the first time....
"C'mon Big Brother" is 53rd on Southern/Blues Rock
and "I Need A Lover, Not A Mother" is 149th in Americana/ Alt Country. It's a START I guess.

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 06/18/08 04:54 PM.

bc
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 844
Likes: 1
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 844
Likes: 1
I'd love to win that 5 G's....I could finish my CD no problem....It's in a holding pattern now........

Anyways New York City Cowboy has been "stuck" consistently for 2 weeks in the 40's & 30's till the last 2 days it's been 'stuck" at #28............It was #1 for most of 1 day earlier in the month and fell to where it stands today

With 6 days to go I'm afraid it's pretty much topped out...and will stay in this vicinity...

For the songs first month in the contest I guess that's good...I believe once fans are familiar with the tune they vote accordingly....






Steve Altonian---"I'll just do my best & let God do the rest"

http://www.stevealtonian.com
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Currently I'm focusing on these two:

Peace On Earth - 32 out of 522 in Instrumental

Suave Lluvia (Gentle Rain) - 113 out of 283 in New Age / World

They might be do better if I switched them around, placing "Peace On Earth" in New Age/World and Suave Lluvia into the Instrumental channel. I noticed a lot of songs in Instrumental sounding like they could do well in the New Age/World channel.

On July 1st I might try switching these songs around, but first I'll see how this month goes.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590
"Come On Katy" has been hovering around #10 on the Newport Folk channel for about a week now, after slowly climbing up from an initial #200 or so. Fingers crossed... wink

"If I Had A Nickel" has been sitting at #58 or so for a couple weeks, after a pretty lousy finish last month.


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
I didn't realize you had stuff upt here Shandy. FYI, I think the Newport thing may already have run it's course in terms of getting a slot at Newport. But it's still a viable channel for the contest overall.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
I sent a message to Ourstage querying a policy of allowing multiple entries. It would appear that some people trying to beat this are withdrawing an entry midway through the month perhaps because it is not doing too well and replacing it with another. I think this is unfair. I have stated before that entries should all be made prior to the start of the month and then all voted on equally for that month's duration. This is the reply that I got back.



"Thanks for the feedback.

People can remove something that is in competition, but cannot replace it.
When they remove it, they lose any ranking they had, up to that point. If they resubmit to the same channel during the course of the month, that new item starts with "0" zero ranking and our ranking engine will serve it up to catch it up with other items in that channel to give it an equal chance of competing, so we do not penalize or prevent artists from starting over during
the month."

I think this is very unfair and spoils the voting system and its engine. It should be stopped immediately so all entries start at the same time and are on a level playing field. Unless I have picked things up wrongly late entries do according to this reply play catchup and get more battles in a shorter period of time so they can compete equally. Where is the equality in allowing people two or more bites at the cherry then allow them more voting opportunities to catchup songs that have been there all month.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Jim,

It's fair if everyone gets to play by the same rules. Rather than be pissed about it, use it to your advantage as well. At some point folks are going to have to realize that there is no pleasing everyone. No matter what rules or system you use, there will ALWAYS be people who disagree with it and are unhappy. So at some point, they need to do what is best for their own interests, and if that turns you off, then you'll need to do the same. But as long as everyone can do the same thing, it's not really an unfair advantage.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Those late entries would only catch up to songs that have been there all month if they are voted more favorably.

I pulled a song out one month that was doing poorly. I entered another one instead. It tanked. No advantage.

No advantage...unless it's seen to be excellent. And if it was, it would only have done better had it been entered earlier.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,389
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,389
Well, It looks like "C'mon Big Brother" is the fan favorite among the songs I've entered. It's now 43rd in Southern/Blues Rock after a week or so.WHOO HOO!{LOL}


bc
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
I just joined this very cool site and uploaded 3 songs yesterday. So there hasn't been much time for them to be heard. At the moment, here is what I have:

"Band of Brothers" - 431st in Folk
"Agincourt" - 784th in Acoustic
"Fifty Miles Into The Main" - 507th in Americana/Alt Country

I suspect this is normal for the first 20 hours or so, no?

Ken


Ken's new album - Outlaws and Bystanders


Ken's Music Raven Boy Music

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
I couldn't join as "Ken Theriot!" I wanted to ask if anyone else had this problem. The site has someone else already on there with that name (very weird), but there is no profile for that name. So I had to be "Ken Theriot 1."

I doubt there are that many other musicians named Ken Theriot, but Imay be wrong.

Ken


Ken's new album - Outlaws and Bystanders


Ken's Music Raven Boy Music

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Ken, joining later in the month hurts your chances at success. At the beginning of each month, because I enter prior to the 1st, my songs are almost always top 20 or top 30 in the early days. Also if you said a profile doesn't exist for "Ken Theriot" but you were not able to use it, it sounds like you tried to register but the registration got canceled, or something to that effect. Message OurStage about it.


http://www.zirconmusic.com/ - Award-winning music/albums for video games, film and TV!

Impact Soundworks - Cutting-edge sample libraries for Kontakt
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by Andrew Aversa
Ken, joining later in the month hurts your chances at success. At the beginning of each month, because I enter prior to the 1st, my songs are almost always top 20 or top 30 in the early days. Also if you said a profile doesn't exist for "Ken Theriot" but you were not able to use it, it sounds like you tried to register but the registration got canceled, or something to that effect. Message OurStage about it.


Thanks Andrew!

Ken


Ken's new album - Outlaws and Bystanders


Ken's Music Raven Boy Music

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Well, "Papa Hawg" on the instrumental channel, slipped all the way down to the nineties, but now it's back at 26 with two days to go. Fun stuff, this OurStage!


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
I'm in the same boat with "Funky Music" currently at No 20 in cover bands. It would be nice to get top twenty slots in two consecutive months with two different songs.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Michael Borges' wonderful tune "Peace on Earth" is number five in instrumentals, and my "Papa Hawg" is at number eight. There are less than two days left. The suspense builds!


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
I have pulled all my songs from competition except One Hell of a Good Storm. I moved it to Country. It entered at 426 and had not moved for four days then went to 424.
I am still curios how some songs enter in the top 20 and others start at the bottom. What determines start position?
Also the number of plays on the songs I entered this month disappeared when I removed the songs. It seems they only get counted if the song is in competition. Why is that if the plays have nothing to do with the competition?


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Bill I am keeping an eye on Ourstage but will probably not enter next month. I do not like some of the rules and I think there are serious issues with the way the program is running. Today the last day of judging before Q finals a whole host of new entries have joined. When judging they are appearing all the time. This catchup is not fair these songs come up many many times in the last day. people who have been voting all month now are only getting mostly the new songs. With that it is easy to jack up the positions. I am also noting that the site keeps crashing again what effect is this having on fair judging.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,893
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,893
Hey Big Jim

Wow hope I'm not part of the problem lol. I entered my most recent song and it started at 1180 it's up to 1138 now. I'm not sure I entered at this right time for it to ever be competitive ; however, I also find that the number of genre's is quite limited. I would classify my entry as classic rock; however, there isn't a clsssic rock category and listening to the other stuff in rock I listened to sounded nothing like my entry so I get the feeling mine will go almost completely ignored as a result. I did this as a test and if my song never reaches above the thousand mark I don't think I'll be entering again lol. There are certainly some issues. Overall I like the idea, it just seems there are still some bugs to work out!
Derek


All the worlds a song and all the people Singers

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=740346
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Hi Derek You have just about summed it up. There appears to be many probs regarding just about everything from unfair rules to genre probs which do not fit the songs and the discrepancy in size between the different ones plus the way entries are made. There are also many issues regarding the software the site uses and how it does not appear to be working very well. I think it is a great site and could be much improved but it needs a lot of work and time. They listen to feedback but a lot of the time no proper fix is available.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
Hey Guys,

Regarding the limited genres on Ourstage, I emailed them the other day and asked them to put in a bluegrass genre--listening to both the acoustic and folk channels, I've heard a lot of what sounds more like bluegrass. Plus, most of my band's songs sound bluegrassy, so I had a difficult time finding channels in which to enter them. They did get back to me and say that they'd look into it.

I gotta agree about the number of plays being related to the competition. I know Ourstage says that's not the case; however, we have on song in Tropical, which only has about 65 entries. It's gotten over a thousand plays, whereas our songs in the larger channels have gotten around a hundred or so plays. To me, that correlation is obvious because there's just no way that over a thousand people have just searched that song out on their own in the last month.

Eric

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
The answer to this question about plays is probably due to people checking the positions before voting. This counts as a play. It stands to reason that tactical voters will check the competitions position before saying what song is better in an attempt to boost their song and devalue other songs. It is easier to do in categories that have only a few songs as opposed to thousands. I have noticed that many songs are deliberately being entered in a totally wrong genre because it has less entries. We should report all of these off topic songs so this practice is stopped. There must be a way of subdividing genres so that each category has roughly the same amount of entries.

Last edited by BIG JIM MERRILEES; 06/22/08 03:40 PM.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Big Jim I don't have any problem with Ourstage. They can run it however they want. They don't charge anything.
My decision to pull my songs were personal.

I still see covers in the channels that I reported and they are still there two weeks later. I don't think that's right but it is not up to me. It is there site to run as they wish.
I don't think they care too much for country, LOL.


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,044
Likes: 16
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,044
Likes: 16
I have a problem with the lack of sub-genres. My main interest is country and gospel. There is but one heading for country and one for gospel. That would mean a country gospel song would be competing with a rap or hard rock gospel. Or bluegrass country could be up against pop country or western swing.

I won't be entering so many songs this month, there is no place to place them.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 114
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 114
A friend of mine pointed out this site to me last month. I didn't join then because I am already on a few of these type of sites and I don't really want to whore myself to every community/artist site out there.

However, since it is a partner of JPF, I joined today.

I am not going to prod or poke at all. We can use me as a test case. We'll see what happens with my rankings:

http://www.ourstage.com/fanclub/manoreza


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Everett,

They have a pretty large number of genres already and as they can accomodate them, they add more. Country also has Americana and Folk which certainly are border genres. I know they've discussed having Bluegrass, but then where do you put Roots and Swing and (on and on). We have 100 genres in the JPF awards... and they have over 40 in their contests. Even we find folks not happy with the numbers we have. As they have enough quality material to expand, they will. The more the merrier for them remember, as they want site traffic.

I was doing a little research and found that they are, in fact, getting a huge amount of site traffic. This was from an independent source. And on top of that, the traffic they get doesn't seem to be musicians much as a percentage, which is what people should want if they hope to reach fans. So it seems to me that they're finding the success they are wanting. And they have no reason not to have 200 genres if they can support them with enough quality entries. So give them time to grow.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Well, "Papa Hawg," a fingerpick guitar instrumental, made it to the semi-finals in the "Instrumental" category. Now, all it has to do is win that and then win the finals smile


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Well done Mike. My cover of Play That Funky Music scraped in and is currently at #12 in cover bands.

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590
Hey, my "Come On Katy" is sitting at #3 in the Newport Folk channel...


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 114
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 114
I entered one of my songs ("Getting Started Part 1") in the JVC Jazz Festival Newport contest (I have been to this festival a couple of times and I love it, it would be a dream to actually play it).

I'm listening to the songs at the top of the chart for this category and I have to admit...they are really good!

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
I made it with two songs in the quarterfinals! "Drum and Bossa" in Instrumental, and "Rainforest Majesty" in New Age/World. I noticed Big Jim is in the quarters as well. Grats man.


http://www.zirconmusic.com/ - Award-winning music/albums for video games, film and TV!

Impact Soundworks - Cutting-edge sample libraries for Kontakt
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Hi Niteshift,

The rules with songs are as follows:

Can be moved from a channel if its off-topic
Might not auto-rollover to the next month if it doesn't rank in the Top 50%

You can always enter a song into a channel again, as long is it hasn't been flagged as off-topic for that channel.


Originally Posted by niteshift
Hey Bill,

Take heart mate. My current entry in Comtemporary did so badly at the bottom of the pile that I pulled it. And apart from the song itself, that song has a top notch vocalist.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
We took the approach we did because we didn't want folks to enter and then "forget". So to address it we invested in the technology to make sure that withdraws don't help and that all content is given an equal # of listens. There is no advantage to one strategy vs. another this way and keeps the artist and fan engaged.

Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
I sent a message to Ourstage querying a policy of allowing multiple entries. It would appear that some people trying to beat this are withdrawing an entry midway through the month perhaps because it is not doing too well and replacing it with another. I think this is unfair.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
FYI...Bluegrass IS the next channel to launch. Stay tuned.
Originally Posted by ebaker68


Regarding the limited genres on Ourstage, I emailed them the other day and asked them to put in a bluegrass genre--listening to both the acoustic and folk channels, I've heard a lot of what sounds more like bluegrass. Plus, most of my band's songs sound bluegrassy, so I had a difficult time finding channels in which to enter them. They did get back to me and say that they'd look into it.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Hi there,

We do review all off topic complaints. We also do our own proactive checking. Sometimes we have to allow for some "close fit" songs because we allow the artists to decide an don't pre-screen items. There are laws governing user generated content sites such as OurStage that necessitate this practice. That said, overall, artists aren't a great judge of their own genre. We do the best we can to strike this delicate balance between "ideal" and "practical". That said, please do flag anything you consider Off Topic so we can review.

Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
We should report all of these off topic songs so this practice is stopped. There must be a way of subdividing genres so that each category has roughly the same amount of entries.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Well, "Papa Hawg" is now number 3. It was number 2 this morning. Again, this is a lot of fun. Danny, you guys are carrying out an amazing task, and you're very responsive to the community here. Thanks for the good work.

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Thanks Danny for your feedback. It is encouraging to note that we are being listened to and action is being taken to improve the Ourstage site. I think it is still pretty neat despite my complaints. I am only vocalising my concerns and suggesting ways to improve.


Congrats to all other JPFs who made the Q finals.

Page 13 of 28 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 27 28

Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
warriorgirl (2024)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5