JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum So Where Does Your Song Rank On Ourstage?

An awesome round. Jill made it to #2 (!) and our friend Audix, with two entries in the finals, had one at #6.

There's an important lesson that we learned yesterday. The rankings are NEVER final. The person who actually won the grand prize only appeared at #1 in the last hour or so of the voting. For the entire day, people were in and out of the #1 spot and the top 10 consistently. Jill pulled up from #30 to #2. So if you're voting, never give up, there's always hope.

Actually Cobalt and the Hired Guns are also JPF members. So that is 3 months out of 3. Congrats to everyone who did well!

Brian

Wow, bravi!

Congrats to those who have won or placed High in the rankings. I have listened to most of them and they definitely deserve to be there.

What I am learning from this is either my taste in music is really weird or my songs really suck, LOL. I have listened to dozens of songs that rank higher than mine and I think my song is better. Yet my song continues to drop.
One thing I have noticed is in the category's I am in most of the songs sound a lot alike. Maybe that's the secret. Don't do anything different or unique.
I think it's time for me to take a hint and drop out of there.

Never give up on something you feel strongly about being different makes the music more interesting.

I rank in R&B 70 and will keep tryings and now in POP and Songwriter.

All we can do is stay true to what we feel and are passionate about. The MUSIC

Bill you are not alone. I have experienced the same thing. I think there is more tactical voting and "cheating" for want of a better word than we are being led to believe. I saw some great songs which had held the top place for most of the month drop out of the top ten and remain there during Q/finals. These songs were replaced by quite poor songs which did not deserve to be there. Some songs were only added to the category with a day or two left in the comp yet overnight jumped into contention I think this is unfair. All songs should be entered within the first 48 hours of the start of the month.

I don't know Big Jim. For that many folks to resort to cheating would be a little dificult to believe.
I do agree on some of the songs that seem to drop out of contention. But there is no accounting for public taste. You just never know.

I am not really bothered by my own songs position. It is what it is.

Ended up at.....

No6 in Electronica
No9 in Instrumental
No195 in R&B
No312 in Blues

Quite a spread....

As Big Jim has noted, there does appear to be tactical, or what I would refer to as predatory voting at certain points along the voting time scale.

The most marked example of this was the song I entered in Instrumental, "Synthetic Salsa Blue", which after being in the top 20 for most of the month, and floating around 6-15 th place, suddenly took a nose dive to No 125, a couple of days before the quarter finals started. Statistically, that's very improbable. It did recover over half a day or so, and ended up in the top 20 for the quarter finals.

Is anyone allowed to register and vote at any point ? If so, I would suggest allowing registration only before the top 20 are announced, to prohibit would could be construed as "stacking the odds" once the contest becomes heated.

I'm fine with the final positioning, so please don't take these comments as sour grapes. Just a suggestion to ensure a more even state of play.

cheers, niteshift

PS - Bill, when there's $5,000 riding on it, it sure makes sense to get as many votes as you can, which ever way you can.

I wonder how much of it has to do with marketing? Do some of the folks actively persue voters, court them for votes.
Nothing wrong with marketing yourself to help you become more successful.
I am terrible at that. I don't market myself at all, No fan base, no mailing list, nothing.
Maybe I need an agent or a manager, LOL.Or a PR person.

Hey Bill,

Same with me, no mailing list no fan base, so I have to be content that the 2 songs that made it into the top 20 actually did it on their own accord. As for the other two ? , well, public taste is very fickle, LOL.

cheers, niteshift

It's really not possible to do any kind of tactical downvoting in the pre-quarterfinals. Was that being implied by anyone? You'd have to judge hundreds of songs just to get to the one you're looking for, possibly thousands, which would take a great deal of time. When you finally did get it, you'd still only have ONE vote on it, which wouldn't make a huge impact.

Seriously, try it yourself. Sit down at, say, 1PM then go into Electronic and try to vote for your song *once*. Though it's possible you'll get a song you want to get early on, I can just about guarantee you'll be there for hours before you do.

Hey Andrew,

No, it's not possible by one person, but it is possible by large cohorts of likeminded individuals, or semi-automated systems. Unlikely I know, but possible.

I'm more concerned about mass sign-ups after the posting of the top 20. I think there is room for playing the system, especially after the top 10 have been announced. Any ideas on this ?

cheers, niteshift

Jill and I know a group of people that tried to cheat in the pre-quarter final rounds using some kind of a script system. They tried it two months in a row, as a matter of fact, and OurStage caught them both times. The cheaters were removed the first month, and the second month their songs had the illicit votes removed, sending them down to <250 in the rankings. So, I'm pretty sure OurStage has a handle on that kind of thing.

As for mass signups in the top 20/10, well, I don't really see what the problem is there. OurStage encourages you to ask your fans to vote. They want traffic, and after all, the site is supposed to be a complete democracy with votes drawn from "the fans" in general. My fans are certainly part of that population, and so are yours! Jill and I ask our fans to vote each month in the quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, should we make it there, and there simply isn't anything wrong with that.

We always tell them to be honest and to NOT use downvoting or proxy accounts, for example, and through our efforts we have encouraged numerous artists to sign up for OurStage themselves AND vote in the pre-quarterfinals (not for us specifically, but for fun.) Some people have accused the site of being a popularity contest. So what? sgx put it best earlier in the thread. If he earned hundred of fans through years and years of hard work, he deserves the reward of encouraging those fans to support him in a contest like this.

Inevitably some people will say, "But the people with the most fans aren't necessarily the best musicians." Maybe so. However, fans are the best metric of finding good music, short of having an elite panel decide what's best. Not that there's anything wrong with that method at all, but it's the exact opposite of the point of OurStage.

That's right Andrew.
I believe if you have worked hard to develop your fan base it is perfectly ok to be asking them to support you. After all that is why you develop a fan base.
Nothing wrong with that at all.

FANS! So that's what I have been missing (LOL).

Today I decided to enter "Town's On The Edge" in Americana, but I ended up loading the wrong file. So I had to withdraw it and reload the correct file -- it's now "It's A Town on the Edge". I think I can be my own worst enemy sometimes.

Town's On the Edge: http://www.ourstage.com/music/channel/67-americana/LNYGFTNZEVAV-its-a-town-on-the

Look's like another bottom-feeding month for me.

Kevin

Post deleted by TAMERA64

Yes, to tack on to what Andy said... Encouraging your own fans to vote in the last round is definitely important, considering how many people actually participate for that final 24 hours! At that point, all the music genres are pitted against each other; genre bias can play a huge role for listeners, because most people tend to lean towards the more "accessible" genres like Acoustic, Rock, Pop, etc. You may have noticed that Rap and Heavy Metal tracks tend to wind up at the very bottom of the finals rankings - even though they are the best of their channel and usually well made.

OurStage ran a contest back in March: artists who got the most new fans to join in the span of one week would get their music submitted to AOL for consideration. Well, Andrew and I both wound up on that list - but there were over a dozen people who recruited more fans than us, and still didn't place as high in the finals. So to summarize... having your own fan base can only help in those last 24 hours, but that alone may not be nearly enough if your track were not actually very good! (Luckily, most tracks *are* good in the finals. )

Asking fans to vote earlier on in the month - on the other hand - is basically pointless, because there are so many submissions in each channel; the chances are slim that your own song will come up. At least we can all be generally satisfied that the songs making it into the Top 20 deserve to be there.

I do not know how many fans we are talking about here but it seems to me that it would be better asking fans to support the artist by buying their Cds or purchasing their downloads.

Personally I would prefer doing well on Ourstage because the general public genuinely thought my music deserved it rather than a few biased fans rigging a vote. I do not see any mileage or integrity in doing otherwise. Ourstage should be used solely as a yardstick to see how the public feel about your songs.

It is always difficult voting for songs from different genres put against each other. Most people I suspect vote for the song from the genre they prefer even if technically it sucks compared to another song from an alien genre.

I wonder how many folks on Ourstage are Non-musicians or Non-artists. I don't think there is a way to tell.
It would be interesting to see if this is just a peer group site or if there are large numbers of "Fans".
Seems like most internet music sites are primarily musicians.

Jim,

I understand where you're coming from. The thing is, how do you get a good representation of the general populace? In a perfect world, using statistical methods, you'd select a random sample from different areas of the country - the same way political polls are conducted. This would be the most fair thing. But OurStage is not like that, since such a website would have to be closed to any new visitors. By nature, OurStage can't be a perfect representation of the public at large. That much is clear, because if it were, hip-hop would do far better than it does now.

So it's the next best thing. If you let anyone make an account at OurStage, you're basically inviting the general population to participate. Maybe more country fans will end up joining. Maybe techno fans are in the majority. Who knows? What I do know is that MY fans are part of the general populace. So are yours, so are Bill's, and so are the fans of every other artist on OurStage. The invitation is extended to all of them equally.

Of course I agree that actual rigging of the results via intentional downvoting, or other forms of cheating, is despicable and I don't support it at all. I explicitly ask my fans not to do that, and if they want to support me, they still must vote honestly.

In an ideal world, Jim, a contest like that would be possible... somewhere. But that's not what OurStage is actually about. They WANT artists to solicit their own fans. So yes, if you have a fan base, you are completely entitled - and encouraged - to use it. If you're personally using OurStage as a thermometer, that's great for you. But PLEASE don't put down others' integrity who are in it to compete and still playing by the rules. It's a little rude, frankly.

Here are a few samples from official OurStage emails about soliciting your own fan base to join in, if you need convincing:

Top 10 email, 5/29:
"You've earned the right to show off: Recruit everyone you know to check you out on OurStage.com. Show them how far you've come and get them interested in the next great revolution in music and video. You, my friend, are at the forefront of that revolution."

Top 10 email, 3/29:
"A little encouragement can go a long way Now's the time to make sure your fans are doing all they can for you. To help facilitate the possibility of you moving up a notch, we've included a sample email you can send out to your fans, or post as a bulletin, or have tattooed on your forehead. However you use it, it's there to encourage your fans to register for OurStage if they haven't already done so, and to come back and vote again for next round.

May luck shine on you,

The OurStage Team
Hey fan of us,

It's Semi-Finals time at OurStage.com, America's great independent music and video discovery destination, and we're shooting for top act of the month. There's quite a bit at stake here, such as gigs at festivals and other career-making goodies.

And this means, of the thousands of bands competing to be #1, (your name) stands a decent chance of taking it. If you already voted us into the Semi-Finals, we hope you'll come back and support us again. If not, hope you'll vote for us now.

So thanks for your vote, if you did - it means a lot. And please vote for us again. If you're not yet an OurStage member, you can easily become one right now, right here. It's fast, easy and free.

Yours very loudly,

(your name)"

Top 20 email, 3/25:
"Most of you, I suspect, have fans who are not connected to you by DNA or marriage. As much as you depend on your fans, we here at OurStage also need their involvement to see us on to bigger pastures. So here's a special opportunity, offered exclusively to our esteemed quarter finalists. Between now and the end of March, any artist who adds 20 or more new fans into your fan club will be automatically submitted to AOL for promotional consideration (musicians only), not to mention a passage in our beloved newsletters and other promotional announcements.

The best way for you to earn the honor is to tell ALL your friends and devoted fans who are not on OurStage to register for OurStage ASAP and join your fan club."

So it is a popularity contest to see who has the most fans. I am sorry I did not realise that. I thought let the fans decide was a general term meaning music fans not particualrily loyal to any artist to judge what they thought was the best song.

Well I apologise for being rude but stick to my guns. If what you say is the case then that sucks. THAT is being rude to people who are relying on fair and impartial voting. No wonder the results are all over the place.

Nowhere does it say, "Get all your friends to sign up so they can vote only for you and down-vote everyone else!" As Andrew has already stated, we and our other friends (who have some overlap in fan base) only ask people to vote HONESTLY. They have to rate all the other songs as they would anyway - can't just skip to us, the way the system works to begin with.

There is simply nothing wrong with encouraging people who have been longtime supporters of your music to join in the fun - especially considering OurStage ASKS the finalists to do so. If you have a problem with it, maybe the site isn't for you. Complaining won't change things, and I've seen an impressive amount from you in all these OurStage threads.

To expect long time supporters of your music to remain impartial is naive to the extent of being silly. I have no problems with asking friends to join in the fun but it has to be pointed out that this can account for unfair voting and unjust winners if enough people are recruited in this way. That is all I was saying.

Perhaps it is you who have caught the wrong end of the stick and this site is for people like me.... not for people who manipulate to win at all costs.

Jim, are you really accusing three fellow JPF members of manipulating to win at all costs? I hope you're referring to other people (like the one sleazy guy who was mentioned who encouraged his fans to cheat.) Again, it bears repeating that there are quite a few other artists who have significantly more fans (on AND off OurStage) than the previous three winners, yet those artists have not won the grand prize or placed as high as us in the finals.

I heard one of your entries last month that had ranked pretty high. I enjoyed it and I think it has an excellent shot at getting into the quarterfinals. Keep entering your strong material and if people really do like it, you really will make it into the later rounds. The first month I entered, my song "Breathing You In" (feat. Jill) did not get into the quarters. The next month, it placed 3rd in the finals! The following month, it was back to not making it into the quarters again.

Remember it is really impossible to do any sort of manipulative voting in the pre-quarters. As I said earlier, we've seen people try, and they were caught. OurStage is good about that.

I've been away from performing for four years. So now I'm building a fan base again. OurStage is just one avenue to use. If one is looking for the voting there to confirm whether they write good songs or not, I would suggest performing them live where they stand on there own and see the reaction.
With these contests there are so many apples to oranges comparisons that occur. For example, I do novelty songs. Is there a novelty category? No. So I must compete in categories where I'm at a disadvantage because of genre conflict. However - say for example I put a song into competition in the Pop category. Since that is one of the more high traffic categories, I reap the benefit of reaching more people with my music. And one thing I've learned about the music I write - whether people like it or not, they do remember the songs - and that's the power of a good hook. Do I need to win to benefit? No. If I acquire fans, I win. If I acquire enough fans, I win big. Look at it as a business. This business is not for the hypersensitive. I like what OurStage has done in avoiding a lot of the abuses I've seen at other sites. Yes there's a lot of material that's low quality. And some of it floats(you know the saying). But that's life. Some Top 40 songs are low quality. One can win with crap. But could one take pride in it, if they did - and knew better?

First off, I don't have much of a fanbase or any. Given that, my goal is just to reach the top twenty. My only suggestion is to cut off submitting entries at some point much earlier than the start of quarter finals. As Jillian has suggested, it is very difficult to manipulate voting during the early rounds due to the sheer volume of competition. However, what about entries that are entered just a couple of days before quarterfinals? (Speculation on my part to follow). Wouldn't the algorithm in this case try to 'catch up' by trying to pit the new entry with as many matchups as possible to get a more accurate reading? In that case, it would be easier to 'cheat' your way into the quarter finals as the new entry would show up in more matches. As Jim and others have suggested, the last few days seem to have more movement of song placements that one might expect. Even I thought that the last couple of days in the 'country' category had some very odd movement and entries that I hadn't seen before in the top ten suddenly show up. Just my observation and suggestion.

I like the idea of a novelty and/or comedy category.

I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am just stating my opinions on Ourstage. I apologise if anyone has got the wrong end of the stick but that will not change my opinion. There has been some weird voting and not always does the system seem fair IMO. I am only suggesting ways in which the system can be improved. I am not alone in exposing a number of flaws in the system and pointing these out. I always maintain that anything can be improved. This is usually done by complaining or making suggestions as to how it can be improved. To state that complaints will not change things is an insult to anyones intelligence and counterproductive especially Ourstage. We have been encouraged to make comments and suggestions and promised that all will be considered. Is this suddenly now not the case?

It has to be pointed out that due to the fickle nature of the human being and a wide spectrum of taste there is no perfect system of music competition. That said we should all pull together to try to improve Ourstage to be the best it can.
I will also repeat that it is naive to expect fans of any individual to vote fairly and impartially. That being the case measures should be taken to prevent judging abnormalities and irregularities. I am not convinced that there is enough being done at the moment.

Please do not get the wrong idea I do not have sour grapes about winning or not winning competitions. That part of music is not very important to me at the moment. However I am positive in attitude and like to see fair play for all. I will fight for a cause and ways to improve it for others as well as myself.

So far I have only entered a couple of songs as a bit of fun and to test the waters so to speak. Debatebale if there is much mileage in taking it as serious as some people. However as was stated previously extra exposure and a wider audience for your music is important but personally I would prefer to sell my music than give it away.

I'd second that motion!!! Never tried to write comedy myself, but I love listening to it.

"I have a sad story to tell you
It may hurt your feelings a bit
Last night when I walked into my bathroom
I stepped in a big pile of...SHAVING CREAM"

Eric

Jim - it's not naive to think my fans can, and do, vote honestly. Andrew, sgx, Audix, and myself all come from an online community of amateur musicians similar in some ways to JPF: www.ocremix.org. All the music there is completely free, and we and the other artists make it solely because we like to. We're not in it for money or prizes, and we have been actively participating for years.

The fans on ocremix.org admire our music, yes, but they are used to critiquing and evaluating other artists because there are over 1500 songs on the site, and there is a public reviewing system. We didn't just tell them about OurStage so that they could vote for us, but so that they can enjoy the community as a whole. They are hungry for new music, and genuinely enjoy having a hand at evaluating it because that is how ocremix.org works. And many of them are entering there own songs now, too!

I would appreciate it if you could try not to pigeonhole me (or anyone else here) into your views of "fickle humanity" unless it's completely warranted. I haven't been posting here for very long yet, but hopefully you will give me the benefit of the doubt... that I'm an honest and friendly person.

Making reasonable and constructive suggestions is great, but your complaints have been edgier - and you're only offending people in the meantime. There should be a way to make them that isn't insulting or generalizing. And the people who matter (like OurStage staff) would probably be more receptive if we can pose our suggestions in that way.

I was referring to all fans not just yours. It is incredibly naive to think that any fans are impartial, a fact of life, a human failing, call it what you will but people are influenced by favouritism and nepotism even subconsciously and with all due respect and the best will in the world all fans are guilty of human nature. It may be true that your fans are more impartial than others but my point is still valid. You have obviously not considered that other peoples fans are not so honestly inclined as yours and it was them I was referring to.

This is not a personal attack or pigeonhole or calling honesty or friendliness into question. I have no idea why you have taken this so personally. I am stating my opinions generally on Ourstage not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. I see flaws in the system and am trying to bring these to peoples attention to try and improve the system for all of us.

You are entitled to agree or disagree with these opinions and suggestions on how to improve these things. I have a feeling that I am not alone in my feelings. Perhaps I just am a bit more outspoken than most folk.

I would appreciate it if you could point out what it was about my complaints you found insulting or offensive. I only made general points and made no personal references.

Um, maybe because you have been responding to my posts this whole time and telling me the way I (and others) do things is unfair, lacking in integrity, and naive? I'm rolling my eyes at this point. I never said that ALL fans of any artist are impartial, but no need to try to reason with you... You really don't realize how rude you come across, I guess.

Here's my one gallon of gas worth....

Music is a popularity contest....you develop fans - those fans then request your music on radio and buy your CDs (or download them) and you gain more popularity/more fans. Those who develop and have a large fanbase should definitely use it to their advantage. That's what keeps the artist popular. I don't think there should be any expectation of anyone's fans to be impartial on Ourstage or anywhere else. They're fans because they like that particular artist. It would be kind of like expecting New York Yankee fans to cheer for the Boston Red Sox at Yankee Stadium. Ain't gonna happen.

Ourstage is a click and move site much like other click and move sites (probably carried out in a much fairer fashion than most). Folks with larger fanbases will probably do better. I enjoy being a part of it and have no expectations. Maybe that's why I enjoy it. I've heard some really great artists I would otherwise never have heard. I've heard some real clunkers too. Are the best songs always winning? Maybe, maybe not. Are the best songs always at the top of Billboard and being played on radio?

Steve V

Sorry you got it wrong. Way wrong. Nothing personal was ever meant. I never once said that you or anyones integrity was in question. I just said I did not like the rules. I myself was rolling my eyes at your responses and attack on my opinions. I did not know that Ourstage was that big a deal. Maybe you are right it is not for me. I prefer to win alone without help from friends influencing the vote. Then I feel I have achieved something by merit. But as they say let the fans decide and the person with the most biased fans wins the prize.
If you think that is OK then you are welcome to that opinion.
You are doing NO wrong playing by the rules I just do not like the rules or the way people are abusing them (no reference to you meant)

During the q/finals my song jumped about from 18 up to 4 and then back up again finishing at 16 a similar pattern happened to other songs. The really good songs that were in the top positions all month dived finishing out of the top ten during that period. You do not have to be a genius to work out that tactical voting was responsible for this. Again I will state my reasons for this stance nothing personal against you just a dislike for rules that leave themself open to abuse.

Well said. Similar to the earlier question about whether pictures should be included with the songs, I think absolutely that an artist is a package deal. They come with music, yes, but they also come with an image and (hopefully) a fan base. Those things cannot be overlooked because they are equally important in an individual's path to success. Nobody claims that the music business is fair; I think we all know that by now! But at least OurStage has a much better voting system. Most other sites let you just skip right to your favorite entry, instead of forcing you to explore, vote on, and enjoy other music.

Here's my take, and I'm not here to make a "fuss" or disagree with anyone, but only to share some of my insights.

First of all, OurStage is a great FREE resource! Since I'm not paying a penny to use any of their services, I can't really complain about anything. Also, they are amazingly open to suggestions, input, feedback and discussion. Danny has done a great job trying to make everyone "happy", but the bottom line is that as much as he'll try, it may still not be a "perfect" system, probably the closest thing to perfect to is enjoy replaying your favorite music by your favorite artist or composer, even if that includes your own tunes.

If I'm paying $30 (or whatever) per song entry, I might expect & demand the best possible service. I would want a fair judging pannel and preferrably an experienced, professional one at that.

Amazingly, this is what Just Plain Folks offers, and though it's completely FREE (told you it's amazing!), it only comes around once every 2 years or so because it's gotten so huge.

So really there's plenty of choices for all of us to get our tunes heard here, there or yonder. There's paid contest services and FREE ones. We need to choose wisely and then try to learn from all the feedback we're getting, whether good, bad or indifferent.

Generally, music does have to be good to attract and sustain a long-term relationship with our "fans", otherwise they'll lose interest and support other artists.

Best,
Michael

Wether its free or not I think most of us would like to think things are fair. I know there are things going on behind the scenes wether one wants to believe it or not. I have personally received emails as to the "goings on". At this point I am laying low and not saying anything just yet. You are NOT imagining things Big Jim. I usually go with my gut instinct and it serves me right 99% of the time. I had thought something was going on with a particular artist. Then without me asking another artist emailed me some evidence. There are email trails. HAHA! I guess I have to take the site not so seriously and look at it as exposure of my songs and hearing and meeting other great artists. But as for being fair. I really think not. Sorry, but that is how I feel. I have evidence too. But, it only takes one bad apple to ruin it. Maybe in time we can weed out them bad apples. :)But it is not the fault of the person running the site but definately of those not playing fair on the playground if you know what I mean.

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards2

Good points Tammy,
And I did mention at top that... they (OurStage) are amazingly open to suggestions, input, feedback and discussion. That's why we have this forum and why Danny, the OurStage representative, is here to get feedback and discuss these issues with us.

If there are problems with unfairness we suspect or have proof about, these should be reported and discussed. Evidently they have a lot of priorities to deal with including bugs, spam, program edits, new rules & policies and cheating to contend with, etc.

Some problems are more obvious than others and most of the "issues" I've had were only based on theory of how people could try to "game" their judging system. Beyond that, I haven't personally seen any proof, but no evidence is needed to perceive basics like anyone artist could create numerous fan accounts (with alias e-mail addresses) to vote for themselves.

But the reality, as Andrew pointed out, is that it's virtually impossible (and much too time consuming) to vote for oneself against thousands of other fans and judges.

On another note, I'm curious how many successful full-time professional artists and bands would use OurStage? Would it interest them or would they feel like it's a "step down" for them, or maybe just a "risk" if they don't win 1st place each month or something like that?

How many major "brand name" artists and bands have you guys seen on OurStage? Maybe they would consider it more like playing in the little league rather than in the big league. I think they would rather invite their fan base to their own web sites and concert events, etc. But I know a lot of them have pages on MySpace and videos on YouTube, etc. but there's not as much "head on" competiton there.

Michael

Can someone please tell me how to navigate Ourstage? Someone suggested I put up a lyric, so I did (last week). It's loaded (..I played it...but I can't figure out how to get to all the songs in the category. Whatever category I click, it takes me to 2 songs that I guess are going head to head, but that's it.

I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere, but I can't stare at this screen for that long. If you could just point me to something.

Thanks.

Well, I just went to the site and saw that I've gotten some votes, but I have no clue how this works. People wanting to make friends. Yikes!

OK,

I messed around and at least figured out a little. One is 26th in country..."If You Were Here With Me" The other says untitled. Don't know how I screwed that up. It DOES have a title....

Hey everyone!
This month I'm entering only two songs for the JUNE contest:
(You can click the images to go right to the song.)


Suave Lluvia (Gentle Rain) - New Age/World


White Bird - Cover Bands

Post your tunes & see you guys there!
Michael

Ben: Don't forget to add an image to your "If You Were Here With Me" song. Every little bit helps. Good song, by the way.

Kevin

Hi Everyone. There's no category that defines what I do on OurStage but for fun I have entries in Pop and Reggae. Yes, that's not a typo. I said Reggae maun. Best wishes.

What have I learned from Ourstage?...well
If I'm in this for the money I might as well quit now, LOL

I put my song "Crazy Redhead Woman" which went to number 1 on soundclick (WITHOUT any promotion. I just put it there and it went to the top) in the acoustic channel.
Now I am sorry but that is a decent song, everyone has liked it. The production isn't the best but it isn't bad. The prosody is good and I sing on key.
Right now it is sitting at 522 out of 699 songs. below RAP, Bluegrass instrumentals, Rock, Metal, and any number of songs that should not even be in that category. There are songs well ahead of it where you cannot understand a single word of the song being sung. The singer is pitchy and off key, and the production sucks. Yet my song sits at the bottom of the pile.

If my songs can't do any better than this then I better rethink what I am doing. I think I am wasting my time.

I admit I am pretty new at this. I am NOT a performing artist and that may be the problem. I mainly focus on songwriting and Ourstage is really for Performing Artists.
I have noticed a few songs that are ranked pretty high that I am pretty certain are demos. The (Author) is not the singer and the music is done by a demo studio. I was not sure if you could do that.
Is it violating your Demo agreement to win money with the song? I know you are not supposed to sell the Demo.

Well, I have the camera, Kevin. Just don't know how it works! Thanks.


Bill,

That's interesting. I thought once you paid for a demo it became your exclusive property. That's what common sense tells me, but I could easily be wrong.

As far as "selling" it, I don't know how you would do that. I mean, Milli Vanilli is proof that if the singers are shams, it won't sell (once that becomes known, of course). So, without pictures and info on the real singers, it ain't gonna make the hit parade.

I'm not sure Ben
I have a few Demos here of a couple of my songs. I cannot legally sell them, Put them on a CD or put them up on I-tunes for paid download.
They are DEMO's, for Demonstration purposes only. I am not sure if putting them on Ourstage is legal if you can win money.
I think there is a way to have a demo done where you can sell it but it has to be specific in the contract.
Might need someone like Mike to explain that.

Bill,

I checked out your tune -- it has only had 4 plays (OK 5 with me), so maybe only 2 or 3 "judging" listens. Therefore, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. If you song doesn't make a move all month long, then you just gotta say that the listeners on the Acoustic channel (this month) don't appreciate what you have to offer. Next month or next song could be quite different.


I thought the exact same thing yesterday. I was hoping some of my tunes could "move" somebody on OurStage, but that hasn't happened for me either. I do believe it is worthwhile to "try" and do a song that succeeds on OurStage. It seems to be the most unbiased review system that I have seen. Soundclick is basically the number of listens (but, of course, I still like to get a top 100, top 50 or top 10 soundclick song I have had quite a few top 10 sub-genre tracks, but those top 10 overall stuff seems to be pretty hard).


I would wager that you are 100% right here. If you pay for a demo, then you probably can't use it here unless you pay for those "Master" recordings.

Kevin

Hi Kevin
Thanks for taking the time to listen.

I don't want to give the impression I am complaining about Ourstage.
It seems like a pretty fair system and what they are trying to do is a good thing.

I'd be curious to find out about the Demo thing.

I'm probably just having a Van Gogh moment...Hmmmmm checking ear