JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback Lyric Feedback Forum 3 Confused and frustrated

Hi Folks.
I really need some input here. I am not asking for a rewrite critique. I just want to know if you "get it"? Do you know what is going on in the song?

Here is my problem.
I have played this song for non industry folks. Folks who do not listen to country. Folks of different age and economic status. I wanted to find out if it was confusing or would they "get it"
These were NOT songwriters.
I want to know if songwriters will get it. I want your opinion.
Once I get a fair sampling I will post an explanation of the song and why I am asking for this feedback

I got a phone call yesterday
©2008 Bill Robinson ASCAP Lyrics
Moker Jarret ASCAP Music
V1
I got a phone call yesterday
Wish I hadn’t that's all I'll say
Didn’t know Joe was over there
Didn’t know he’d gone anywhere

V2
It’s only been a couple years
We hung out and drank some beers
Remember him throwin’ a touchdown pass
The cross town team still kicked our ass
I got a phone call yesterday

Chorus
I was changing plugs on my brother’s car
When the cell phone rang I banged my head
trying to reach it It’ll leave a scar
Funny how we go out of our way
to grab the telephone when it rings
I got a phone call yesterday

V3
Long tall Joe was his high school name
My brother Sam named him at that Game
I wonder if Sam knew he’s over there
Couple of days they’ll get back here
I got a phone call yesterday

Repeat Chorus

Br
Couldn’t think of a word to say Mom was crying
Dad punched a hole in the kitchen wall
Sam sure liked old Chevrolets
Mom got a phone call yesterday

Repeat Chorus

Tag
I was changing plugs on my brother's car

Sorry Bill....I read it four times....could be just me and not enough coffee yet, but I'm not getting it. I really want to but guess you'd have to say a bit more....Jan

Hi Bill,
I get it, but it's kind of all over the place..

~~shelia

Bill -
I liked this from the start. I got a good sense of the chaos that goes on in someone's mind when they're trying to deal with the sudden death of someone they've been close to. Random memories flooding in (high school football game), mixed with the mundane details of life (changing the plugs). With the right music, I think this could be powerful.
Keith

I got it immediately & the imagery is powerful, but I think the chorus doesn't work to "bring it all together".

OK that's 4
thanks Janice
Have another cup and try again, lol.

Shelia. OK thanks. all over the place?..yes. see

Kieth's response
Thanks Calmdog. I hope a few more chime in on this one.

Thanks Vikki.
Ok the chorus isn't doing it dor you.

I don't want to give up on this song.

Duh, his friend Joe died in the war. "Over there" makes it clear enough to me...and if you're older than dirt like Bill and you actually remember George M. Cohan, then it's totally clear.

So what's the hold up? The music is the missing element here...that really tied it all together for me. Just reading the lyric is something only us songwriting geeks ever do...

Hi Mark

Sorry I did not think to put the link to the song.
here it is

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=148114&songID=6491352
Yes, George M. Cohan did make it clear, LOL.
Over There

I like it, Bill, and of course a good tune helps define it more clearly.

If I'm gonna nit one thing, it would be the believability factor. I could be wrong, but this strikes me as small town America. Only 2 years after high school, I can't imagine the singer being unaware that someone of Joe's status (worthy even of a nickname for what I assume were some heroics, albeit in a losing football game) could go "over there," without him hearing it from SOMEWHERE. Even if it isn't a small town, that's the kind of thing that would certainly come up at the local watering hole..."Hey, where's ol' long tall Joe, anyone know?" If no one knew, they'd likely try to find out.

That is probably something only a yo-yo like me would think of, though!

Lotta nice touches (though I'd go with something other than "leave a scar"). The mundane with the serious...nice contrast.

Ben

Hi Ben
Thanks for the look
That scar line.
I thought a lot about that line when I wrote it.

Hi Bill

I am gonna give you the truth since that's what you asked for.

When you first posted this, I read it and didn't get it at all. Maybe I went too fast, I dunno. I looked at some of the critiques
then, and that's where I realized the guy went to war. When I looked back at the lyric, I was like duh ! I didn't post anything, as I never have success at helping people with lyrics. They always seemed ticked off at me. Here, I felt that the chorus was too far off topic...too much detail that didn't support the emotion that you're trying to convey about the dead friend. I would make this more dramatic, but then again I almost always try to do that! ! People LIKED the fact that you kept it low key though and DIDN'T try to do that...So what the heck do I know?

Oh and Ben has a really good point about the believability thing. After I read what he wrote, I think that is part of what threw me off. It's unusual that something went to war WAY after high school and you had lost track of him.

Well, kinda makes him a bit of a wuss, which some might deem a nice touch, when followed by what follows (death), but...aw, I don't know...

Herbie my friend

You know a lot.
If folks get PO'd at you for making suggestions about their lyrics that is there problem. The only way we can grow as writers is to pay attention to what people have to say about our songs.
They might be right...they might be wrong...
Or might they be either? is there a right and wrong.
I don't think so.
My goal when I write a song is for people to connect with it.
If folks can't connect with this singer in this song then I blew it.
Tha's what I am trying to find out with this excercise.

The chorus too far off topic? maybe.

I dunno Bill,

it looked crystal clear to me....
however.... that's often a sign that it's not LOL
(hey...I'm the one who thought McArthur's Park was perfectly clear too)

very sad song....
actually.... the last verse (about the parents et al) seems to give a good clue as to why the singer might not have known Joe was "over there"
unless I'm reading more into this than is there....it's a double whammy....right?

Hi Bill... I think you both did a good job......As far as the believability factor folks are talking about..wouldn't that be an easy fix?....
I do agree...that it would be hometown news regardless of whether JOe had been living close to the home town....or had
even moved away prior to going in the service...It would probably be known and talked about.... could you maybe change
KNEW he was OVER there...to maybe...?..something on the order..of.. "saw him over there?... maybe that's not a good fix.....

and they both died right?...

best to you.....
Kaley

Piano Melodies and Demos
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=8404&content=music

Children's Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=6469&content=music

Wyman and Kaley's Andy & Friends CD
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kwwg

Hi Harriet
Glad you got it. Yes it is a sad song. But I didn't want the music to be maudlin.
Moker did a great job on this.

McArthur's Park was perfectly clear.....wasn't it?
Hmmmm now I need to check. it's been a long time.

Kaley
It is so good to hear from you.

as Harriet said, double whammy...yes. one of the subtleties of the song.

So I might need to tally up the got it vs didn't get it pretty soon.

I think we tend to overthink things as songwriters.

hmmmmmmmmm
I see there are some folks interpreting differently than I did....
in the second verse....I took it to mean that it had been a couple years since the singer and Joe had hung out drinking beers..... maybe lost touch?
and then he reminisces back farther to the high school game.
Maybe it's just me and my non-drinking youth... but I did assume that the high school years were a few years farther back...
so this guy would have had more realistic reasons for not knowing that Joe was over there.

AND since I don't come from as small a town as some seem to be reading into this.... I don't understand why it doesn't work that he doesn't know Joe is away.

guess we all put our own biases into everything...eh?

I don't know how many years back you can go between the beer drinking and high school. If it was a bunch of years, and Joe wasn't even in service, it's hard to picture him signing up to go fight. YES, I KNOW it does happen (the NFL defensive back, for one), but it's rare. Probably don't mean much...

Harriet
Don't over think it.
You are right on with your assessment.
This is an excercise to try and determine just how clear I have to be in a song.
There is no right or wrong..some folks will interpret it one way some another.

Some of the things are a little foggy I know, but life is like that, LOL.

Heck almost all the kids are drinking beer in High school now.
At least the ones in Michigan are.

Actually Kaley's sug to change it to "Saw" him over there is a good idea.
Thanks Kaley.

Little tweaks.

Hi Ben
Good thought.
I don't know how many High School seniors are drinking beer now a days. I would think it more than a few.
Small town, maybe it would be unlikely they would lose touch but I don't know.
From the time you enlist til you can be in country fighting varies war to war. as little as a few months is not unreasonable.

That has not really been an issue. Confusion has been the issue.

I think I get it. but it is a tad vague. So the guys brother Sam was killed as well as the Joe fellow hence the two phone calls.
I feel not enough depth is spent on the feelings of the guy or his family. More time is spent on the actual phone call and banging his head. The chorus is more like a verse in content whereas either Verse 1 or 2 would make a better chorus. I agree it is perhaps a bit all over the place. But it has potential.

Hi Big Jim
Thanks for the look
Not sure how it is all over the place. I think the timeline is consistent.
I am satisfied that you understood the song.
Thanks

Bill,

This has looked crystal clear tyo me from the beginning. As far as someone going off to war and some of his old high school buddies not knowing about it...I do not see that as a problem. I was back from Vietnam before some of my high school friends even knew that I was in the Army! The bigger the school/town, the more probable that is. I wouldn't change a word. But, I told you that before. And I say it again. Good write!

I would have no problem at all telling you if I felt differently. I think you already know that.

Al

Hi Al
Thanks Pal.
I would certainly hope that you and anyone else would not hesitate to tell me if there is a problem.
I trust you would.
I appreciate that above all else.

We all read things and comprehend things differently. That's a given.
Thanks again.

OK
I have
8 yes I get it
1 no
2 maybe sorta got it.

Interesting.
I had thought it would be more of a 50/50 split.
thank you all for taking the time to comment.
I was ready to go into this long explanation of the song.
Maybe I don't have to.
Thanks everyone.

Bill, add one more to the "yes, I got it" category. If these are the same lyrics that was mated up with that wonderful music over on the *.mp3 forum, I don't think a single word needs to be changed. It is about as close to perfect as it can get right there.

If those are "industry pros" that are telling you they don't get it, remember they may have reasons of their own for saying so that have nothing to do with whether the song is understandable.

Joe

Hi Bill I will try and clarify my meaning of all over the place. Yes timeline is not the problem. The problem is that the song spends more time and explains more details on the less important isuues like changing plugs and banging head than spent on the content of the phone call.

I was watching the news the other day and there was a family had a strange message left on the answer machine whilst they were out. It consisted of a call from their son who was involved in a gun battle in Iraq. there were loud bangs and shouts of "incoming" the son could clearly be heard screaming that his gun was overheating and he was nearly out of ammo. Very frightening. It transpires that his cellphone was accidentaly pressed during this battle and his speedial phoned home. The whole thing was caught on the answerphone. Now that was one hell of a phone call. Imagine his parents listening to that. Thankfully he is OK.

Yes Big Jim
Thanks
I understand what you are saying, now.
That's the point. You don't get it.
The second line of the song says he is not going to talk about it. and he does not. It is intentional.
He talks about everything else.
You understand what is going on without me telling you what the call was

There is more to the "getting it" than just knowing that someone was killed in the war.
There is the understanding of how we react to this kind of news.
Denial and avoidance. The everyday things we are doing when these kinds of phone calls arrive.
The guy was maintaining his brothers car, fully expecting his brother to come home, when the call comes.
The irony that we will do just about anything to get to the phone before it goes to voice mail. No matter what may be on the other end of that call.
The SCAR that this call will leave on him emotionally. that line is there for subliminal effect.

He gets the first call that Joe is dead,,,then his speechless horror when he watches his mother get a call the brother is dead and he sees his fathers reaction.
And the only thing he can think to say is..."Sam sure liked old Chevrolets". The Chevrolet he was just changing the plugs on.

Yes little mundane things.

Hi Joe
Thanks
I think what I am experiencing is a ton of self doubt. I have had a good dose of reality and it has not gone down very well.
I was very proud of this song, I thought the Lyric was just about perfect and the music was superb.

My skin needs to get a little thicker. Heheh.

Forgive me as I did not read ALL of the other input before posting, but here is what I got from reading the lyrics:

The guy is fixing his brother's car
He gets a call
It is that "Long tall Joe" died.
His parent's obviously knew the kid well enough to grieve expressively.


Here is what I did NOT get:
There were TWO calls. The brother had also died.

I am just now listening to the music. It seems kind of peppy to me for such a sad topic, (but that is more along the lines of a crit and this is not what you were looking for sorry).

I am waiting to see if the music helps me to "get it" about being two kids dying.

OH. Okay. I just HEARD with my ears the lines 'sam sure liked old chevrolets and mom got a phone call yesterday. That made me go back and realize that I had just missed it on my original reading.

So, I don't know if it is clear "enough" or not, but at least you can see my thought process here.


For what it's worth, this is very listenable and I like the sound of it TONS!

Hi Jamie
Thanks
There are no wrong impressions.

I am finding that this song needs to be digested a bit.
You did what a lot of folks do I think.
A second listen might be needed.

Bill if the second line says he does not want to talk about it then fair enough I see what you are saying. However the second line only says he wished he had not got the phone call. No mention of not wanting to talk about it. There is a vague remark about not knowing what to say to his mother but that is natural under the circumstance and cannot be taken as him wanting to block out the subject. These two lines in themselves are asking us to put two and two together and make twelve. I think we need a hint more to get us thinking about the points you want to make. Perhaps a lot of people who also say they get it do not follow exactly all the extras you think can be read into the scenario.

He is saying things about what the they used to do.... yes he is in shock and it can affect people in different ways. I would concentrate on this angle. Anger, pride, denial, confusion, doubt, rejection, acceptance and sadness. All these things can be explored to make a more powerful picture.

I learned a BIG lesson from my Unfinished Letter.... what you think the lines mean can be very different from what other people think they mean and there are many interpretations. Some people can only think literally so interpretation and hidden meaning is completely lost whilst other read too many things into lyrics.... things perhaps that are not meant to be there.
It is finding the right balance to keep most people happy. I just think in this particular instance too much is left out.

Hey, I'm still trying to figure out what Billy Joe MacAllister threw off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

Hmmm interesting Big Jim

You think the line "Wish I hadn't that's all I'll say" is not saying he won't talk about the call?
What does it say?
He says THAT"S ALL I"LL SAY how much more clear can that be

I would have thought that you of all people would understand this song after writing "Unfinished Letter"

But that is OK I knew some people would get it some would not.
It is also about visceral feelings. Not literal comprehension.

Hey Calmdog
I think a lot of folks have wondered about that, LOL

Hi Bill!
I really, really like this a lot. Moker did a GREAT job on the music!
I got it with the first read. I questioned if the chorus was working for me. Read through a few more times, listened to the music and read through the other comments.
Nooo .. I got it!! I Like it .. a lot!

As always.. good luck to you!
Joanne

Joanne
My fav female JPF singer.
I got a Like it a lot with a smiley face.

I am glad it finally clicked for you.
This one is like that.
Thanks so much.

I wonder how many other songs in the past have gone through this.
I can certainly think of a few.

I'm still listening ... again.. and again .. AND a 5 -star!

Hi Bill, put me in the camp of having gotten it on first read (and I haven't listened to the music yet). What threw me was the bridge and the second phone call about his brother. Now doesn't it seem like that would be the greater loss than long, tall, Joe, but it's put right at the very end of the song. Anyway, the bridge didn't work for me, but I don't know what to suggest to make it work. I think this idea is worth pursuing, though.

Hi Betty
Thanks for checking this one.
It is Good to hear that you "Got it". That was the purpose of this excercise.
I don't know about the lack of importance. or the order.
I would think if I had mentioned the brother first it would have made the other a bit anti climatic.
It's kind of a what could happn next that would be worse.
Gets a call
bangs his head
finds out an old friend is dead
goes in the house
sees mom on the phone crying
Dad goes nuts.
Brother is dead

Sheesh what's next.