JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Types of Musician and Songwriter Services/Tools

I got this email today from RadioIndy.com
Here's their pitch:
-------------------
Date: 2/25/2008
Dear Michael Borges,

We recently checked out your new CDBaby release Overflowing Cup. Now that it is available online, let RadioIndy help you promote it, with the following new release promotion special:
- Get plays and featured on Radioindy.com (over 1 million page views/month);
- Get a review of your CD published to the following sites as your music becomes available: CDBaby, MySpace, Blogger, RadioIndy; Rhapsody, YahooMusic, PayPlay, Jambase, and Squidoo;
- Get your CD review in our monthly e-newsletters:
1000 different registered listeners every month;
100 different radio stations every month; and
100 different industry executives every month

- Get a press release about your new CD published
- Get featured on our appropriate local page
- Get additional onging benefts as a Super-Featured Artist, giving you maximum promotion / exposure on our site and radio stations.

All this for only $49.95 (limited time offer) for 3 months of promotion, and a 30-day money-back guarantee.

For more information on this outstanding opportunity, simply click here. (http://www.radioindy.com/cd_newrelease.html)

Whatever you decide, best of luck with your new CD.
Sincerely,

Manny and Greg
Co-founders, RadioIndy.com
------------------

I don't know anything about them, but maybe they've posted a few times on the CD Baby "talk back" news forum. Please ask around and let me know what you guys think. Any experience with them, good or bad, will be helpful before we add this resource to our list under Music Promotion Sites.

Thanks everyone!
Michael

Hi folks, could I suggest for your radio and streaming sites

http://songplanet.com/


They are also a hosting site with reasonable rates. They have some live DJ shows and a chat room associated with the radio. If you go in the chat and support their shows, they are only to happy to play your music. Has to be hosted on their site.

Since when did CD Baby run reviews? I don't understand what they are claiming there?

Brian

Brian,
Good question. I've never heard of this outfit before. It seems like they "discover" new artists at CD Baby and then send them this promo pitch. Evidently they write "reviews" of artist's CDs to place on their own sales pages and maybe also in RadioIndie's newsletter. I imagine the letter is also supposed to go out to the "industry", but I'm not sure who they solicit or what their reach is.

Since most JPF artists have been on CD Baby for a while (most longer than myself), I thought I'd ask everyone if they know about this service and if they've ever tried it.

Michael

So if you pay them, they'll write a review? That's a pretty worthless review then. Gosh.. do you think they give people negative reviews who are paying them?

So do they add the "review" to the bottom of the CD Baby pages? Again.. that would be misleading at best to other customers to have a paid review posted there.

Perhaps it's something different, but the email is so vague, that's how I interpret it.

Oh.. and by the way.. Indy is the short for Indianapolis. Indie is the short for independent music. They know that right?

Brian

Yes, I see the problem. It's basically like paying them to write your own "press release", but with a built-in CD review. (?) Not sure how that would work.

I know Derek does stand behind Ariel Hyatt of
http://www.arielpublicity.com
Probably they would do a much better job, especially since Derek is promoting them in his customer service emails to me.

He also lists these other indie marketing services:
http://www.indiebible.com
http://www.indievenuebible.com
http://newmusicstrategies.com
http://newmusicideas.com
as helpful resources for musicians.

We already have IndieBible listed, but Ariel and "NewMusic..." are new to me, so we'll have to do some research,
but if CD Baby is endorsing them, I'm sure they'll be some great resources!

Michael

Today I was checking into UBL (Ultimate Band List) at
http://www.ubl.com
Strange that no one has mentioned it yet, or maybe I missed it, so I added to our list under "Musician Web Hosting" for further consideration. They claim to have about 500,000 artists on their site.
Basically they offer 3 plans, Free, Gold and Platinum.

Here's some links to learn more:
http://www.ubl.com/nrp/content/join.php
http://www.ubl.com/nrp/content/info.php
Their Platinum plan:
http://www.ubl.com/nrp/content/platinum.php

The Platinum plan is pretty much the "full deal" which includes
* Web Domain Hosting (www.yourband.com)
* Upload Unlimited .MP3s
* Upload Unlimited Photos
for $20.83/month for the one year plan. They also allow you to sell digital downloads and physical products, so it appears that your ecommerce store is completely built in.

Personally I've never tried or used it, but I'm wondering if any JPF members have ever used it and how much they like it, etc. Please post if you've heard of this service or if you or any of your friends have ever subsribed to it or have any other reports about it.

Thanks!
Michael

I am very skeptical of that type of claim from a site I've never heard of before. You'd think in 10 years it would have come up once or twice.

Brian,
Yes, good point. I hadn't heard anything about them before either, but it came up today while (coincidentally) reading up about another company, Media Defender, which developed some interesting "Internet Piracy Prevention" technology. This has nothing to do with DRM but more about a legal "spoofing" method to prevent P2P abuse of copyrighted material. You can learn more about Media Defender from this link:
http://www.mediadefender.com/aboutUs.html

About half way down the page I found this reference:
"In 2006, MediaDefender was acquired by ARTISTdirect (ARTD). MediaDefender P2P Marketing Solutions are just one of the many projects that has come out of the acquisition."

So I looked up ArtistDirect.com to learn more about it. They seem to be well funded having started back in 1994, but more recently (in 2005) re-launched an indie artist version which they call Ultimate Band List (UBL.com), but evidently that has also been around (in one form or another) since 1994.

On their "About" page:
http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/misc/aboutus/0,,,00.html
their first statement says:
"ARTISTdirect, Inc. is a digital media entertainment company that is home to an online music network and through its acquisition of MediaDefender, is a leader in anti-piracy solutions in the Internet piracy protection industry."

I read somewhere else on a blog that their purchase of MediaDefender (in 2006) cost them about $42 million.

On the same "About" page they publicly claim:
43 million Uniques (users) and 613 million page views per month (Media Metrix, worldwide numbers, April 2006)
and an online database of more than 500,000 artists.

That's all I could find in one short afternoon.
So I was curious if any JPF members have ever dealt with ArtistDirect or had any positive (or negative) experience with them.

Michael

I am guessing that it's a cumulative number of various incarnations of Artistdirect and I'd bet that a large chunk of those numbers aren't even valid and the artists included aren't even aware they are on the site. I see defunct Artists direct pages coming up in searches all the time for folks and the pages are rarely if ever current. It's the same thing Garageband did when it changed hands.. most people in their artist counts aren't aware they're even on the site which they signed up for many years ago and haven't visited in ages.

Artist direct hasn't ever done a positive thing for the grassroots community that I am aware of. They can make all the claims they want. If you have that much money you'd think they'd be a little more present in the day to day lives with the community. Compare that to CD Baby with less than a fraction of their claimed members. Everyone knows them and most are directly connected to someone who has benefited from them. Hardly applies to ubl.. it's all smoke and mirrors in my opinion.

Brian

Brian,
Yes, that makes sense and I think you're right!

Regarding the stats, at best they are cumulative over many years and probably only a small percentage of arists are still there and active. Possibly a large percentage is using the Free account which allows uploading of up to 4 songs (max.), which is very little compared to most other sites these days including SoundClick and PureVolume, etc.

I noticed that since about the end of 2006 PureVolume and ArtistDirect have an almost equal Alexa ranking.
PureVolme - 2,982
ArtistDirect - 3,880
To put that in perspective, that's slightly ahead of CD Baby which is currently - 8,836

My assesment is that ArtistDirect is getting some huge traffic but mostly from major label artist FANS that are visiting the site to get info about their favorite (major label) artists. This site is after a completely different target market (focus) compared to sites that are geared 100% for indie artists and bands which have nearly Zero presence of any major label artits.

Thanks, just my 2 cents.
Michael

Hey Michael,

When compiling lists, we sometimes overlook the blooming obvious. Was looking at a couple of really great VST plug-ins from SSL. I know most folks here probably couln't afford their gear, but they do do some chopped down stuff for the home recording market.....

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/

Freebies are ...

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/LMC-1/index.asp Classic LMC compressor, and...

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/X-ISM/index.asp Adigital peak limiter for mastering.

Both require registration, but worth it for a couple of classic sounding VST's.

Also, Mix Magazine http://mixonline.com/ , always a good read.

cheers, niteshift

Geoff,
Thanks for the suggestion!
I also found some more info about VST on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

VST means "Virtual Studio Technology". Of course not everyone knows (or remembers) that, except maybe those that already have it. It would go under this category:
Recording Software (recording, editing, production, etc.)

Currently we have 11 equipment companies listed in this category, so I don't know when "enough" will be enough. The list could go and on so how do we determine where to draw the line and stop?
Perhaps only the top 10 or 20 in the world? And who decides which these "top 20" will be? I'm sure most of them have comparable products and most of that kind of equipment can also be found on our category for:
Musical Instruments & Supply Retailers

Most retail shops like Guitar Center and Sam Ash now carry these kinds of items and can also get them on special order if they don't keep them in stock. More importantly, they usually offer purchase and installation advice as well as demos for artists to test and preview at the store, so that would be a good place for novices to get started.

Michael

Ahemmm... Michael, 'twould be akin to compiling a list of car manufacturers and not including Rolls Royce. I think it's better to go straight to the source, than the resellers, who may have a dubious track record. SSL doesn't have comparable products, it has the products which have dominated the recording industry for the past 30 years.

Good article on VST, I think that should definitly be included, as it's the standard form of digital music production these days

cheers, niteshift

Ok, can be added.
Thanks!
Michael

If we're going to start listing music gear brands (and I consider software music gear) then we'll have to list a lot of them for it to make sense. Perhaps that's a separate project worth doing, but I am not sure it's a fit for this project. I suppose if we had a manufacturer sponsor (like we once had with Korg) it would make more sense.

Brian

Hey Brian,

Yes, it would be difficult to list every manufacturer, but I think the main players such as Roland, Korg, Gibson, etc should have a simple listing. The main point is to direct anyone who is looking, directly at the manufacturers' site, rather than have them scramble around the internet looking for re-sellers whom we know nothing about.

I've always bought directly from Roland and Sony, for example, as I feel "trust" in the parent company to fix any problems rather than a re-seller whose reputation I'm unsure of.

The recording software side is pretty much covered, with the mainstream reputable companies listed. Perhaps a listing of the main instrument manufacturers would also help out also.

cheers, niteshift

Most manufacturers don't sell direct in the US and those that do (like Sony) charge you full list price which is always significantly more than the market rate for the product. About 80% of the time Amazon has the best prices on most things and if they don't carry it, Musicians Friend often has better prices than local retailers. If you have a quality local retailer (and keep in mind Guitar Center owns Musicians Friend) and their price is close, it may be worth paying the taxes (in the US you avoid sales taxes by purchasing on line) to buy local from someone who can answer questions etc.

We really need a Retailer sponsor. But there are so few around that can service a world wide group, or even a US group.

Brian

Ahhh, see where you're coming from Brian. Yes, I agree it would be very difficult to be able to bring a global retailer on board. There were a couple of gadgets I wanted from Europe, but the site came back with 'We don't service Australia, please contact your local agent' This of course, is to maintain regional pricing, and to maximise profit.

I have found Sony products direct from the US, via Japan of course, very cost competitive, and just prefer to deal with them directly.

Perhaps the major manufacturers could just be listed from a product point of view, so folks can compare one product with another. Retail endorsement is a headache until the companies themselves stop retricting access on their products relative to geographical location.

cheers, niteshift

I agree with Brian:
"Perhaps that's a separate project worth doing,"

Our whole list could eventually become two project lists:
1. One for everything about creating and producing the music.
2. One for everything about publishing, marketing and licensing the music.

These two "master" lists could both become quit inclusive (as much as needed), and folks could jump in anywhere based on either the creation side or the marketing side of the music.

Michael

I agree with Brian:
"Perhaps that's a separate project worth doing,"

Our current list project could eventually become two lists:
1. One for everything about creating and producing the music.
2. One for everything about publishing, marketing and licensing the music.

These two "master" lists could both become quit inclusive (as much as needed), and folks could jump in anywhere based on either the creation side or the marketing side of the music.

Michael

Good point there Michael, there are 2 seperate and distinct phases.... product and then marketing. Both with completely different agendas. Worth a re-think I think.....

cheers, niteshift

Yes, I think so.
And furthermore, there are many hobbiest songwriters that may never want to get to the marketing level, so why "bother" them with info & resources they don't need and is larglely irrelevant?

Perhaps another good reason to divide our list into two unqiue categories.

Michael

I am going to update the list and I might link it in the newsletter this week. Is your list up to date Michael?

Brian

Yep, how about something along the lines of 'Write and Produce the Song' and then , the hardest part, 'Sell the Song'.....

cheers, niteshift

Yes, thanks for asking Brian!
Currently everything is up-to-date & ready to go!
I think we have close to 160 entries now!

Michael

Yeah, that's the basics!
Actually, to really find out what it takes, maybe ask some artists that started learning piano at age 5 or 6.

Next steps: learn to read, play and perform music at a young age.

Then continue with group and/or private lessons and get into a band or orchestra by Middle or High School days.

If they're talented and really love music, they'll probably get a major in music at the college or university level.

After all this education and practical experience, they'll select a "niche" in the music industry that they want to do for a living such as: teaching, performing, composing, recording, engineering, production, business, publishing, marketing, etc. The last three are particularly useful if they got a double-major such as Music & Business.

You could boil it down to a few basic steps:
1. Education
2. Composing & arranging
3. Production
4. Business, Marketing & Sales.

Michael

OK Michael, ya want a database ? Here's a good one I stumbled across. Lots of free goodies too.....

http://www.audiomastermind.com

cheers, niteshift

Niteshift,
Ok, I'll look into it, but I think the idea is that JPF wants to create our own "custom" listing of musician resources that is large enough to provide good selection yet small enough for us to properly vet out with help of our active members.

Seems like anyone can add listings to the audiomastermind.com database, so it's going to be potentially huge (gigantic) "wiki style" database.

Michael

Yup, good huh ? Browsing galore ! The diffence here of course, is to find suitable business partners, so it's a different model, but thought I'd throw it in as an example of construction more than anything else.

cheers, niteshift

Internet Radio/Streaming Broadcast (aka Pandora) I suggest for this service

Fieldengineer.com: Another huge freelance marketplace for various services Ex: telecom. The one category that might be of the most interest here is the 'Broadcasting'.