Who's Online Now
10 members (Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, couchgrouch, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill), 4,088 guests, and 270 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Does Billy Joel belong in top 10?
by Fdemetrio - 03/28/24 11:10 PM
It Is Done
by Sunset Poet - 03/28/24 07:44 PM
Music Industry Summit, Athens Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/28/24 06:14 PM
Can you save me from me
by VNORTH2 - 03/28/24 03:11 PM
As human as yo
by ckiphen - 03/28/24 09:55 AM
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
She’s missing but she ain’t missing him
by ckiphen - 03/23/24 08:44 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Make my dreams come true
by ckiphen - 03/22/24 10:51 AM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,990
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,126
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,120
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,032
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
I had a lot of fun asking the previous questions about musical theater, and even more fun getting answers, so I thought I'd ask another to see what comes up. Here goes:

Book musicals (musicals that tell a story, as opposed to a revue-type show) come in all "flavors" and can take place anywhere in the world at any time--including that no-time/no-place we'll call "limbo." The questions are: Do the writers of shows convey the time/place of the story being told? If so, how? If not, why, and how do they handle it?

Just to start things off: "Pippin" takes place in the time of Charlemagne. Does the music?


Steven Rosenhaus
Singer/Songwriter
Composer/Conductor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,788
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,788
I'd say it is done predominantly through costumes/clothes of that time/era, language/grammar used (using words commonly spoken at the same time being careful to "not" use words that would not have been spoken at that time, style of dance, and overall feel/mood/tone of the times. Sometimes they can use the injection of a well-known historical event to weave into the story as well. I think those who write for another time must acquaint themselves or almost study those times to get the full flavor unless of course they have lived through it themselves.

Last edited by Lynn Orloff; 07/31/07 10:24 AM.

My Music at Soundclick
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=788266

~call it a blessing or call it a curse, but I see all of life in verse~

Always open to collaborations smile

God Bless Our Military!!!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
You're right about costumes and, even more importantly, about the use of language/grammar/vocabulary of the time and place. Costumes are important, but not always necessary, to convey the time/place. Case in point: "Godspell" has actors in basically modern dress (denim, etc.), or at least clothing of the late '60s flower children.

Language is, as I said, even more important, but it's not always obviously how. Take "Fiddler on the Roof." It takes place in Russia, specifically in the Jewish =shetyl= of Anatevka. What would be the most common language heard in such a place? Certainly not English! It would most likely be Yiddish, with Russian and Hebrew heard only as necessary. Yet we understand this when we hear dialogue and lyrics in English throughout the show. There are only a few instances of Russian and Hebrew throughout; the rest is understood by us (the audience) as being a sort of simultaneous translation from Yiddish into English.

What I find even more interesting is how time and place are conveyed in musical terms, or even if they are. Rodgers and Hammerstein would handle it one way ("South Pacific" and "The King and I" are two examples), Sondheim another ("Pacific Overtures" and "Sweeney Todd"), and so on. Remember my question about "Pippin"? So, how did Schwarz handle it?

Last edited by Steven L. Rosenhaus; 08/01/07 02:10 AM.

Steven Rosenhaus
Singer/Songwriter
Composer/Conductor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 93
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 93
"Do the writers of shows convey the time/place of the story being told? If so, how? If not, why, and how do they handle it?"

Good question, I never even bothered to think about that but i'll try my best with my own work (remember, I'm not a writer...)

When I wrote the Tavern, I used a 'Storyteller' as narrarator, this way I could use time without care, going back and forth from one time period to the next - present to past and back to the present which was the stories (being told by the ST)future... this also allowed multiple storylines (overall) to be used such as the basic premise of the (what I like to call) 'Outside' story (the beginning and end of the play up to the ST's telling of his story to the others and when he's done, sortof like the 'bread' of the story sandwich...) and the ST's story he tells to the others (the 'inside' story or PB & J of the 'sandwich' where anything can now happen anywhere and to anybody irregardless of a timeline...).

What I think the neat thing was is that both stories are really the same story overall. I just sorta started telling it in the middle, went back in time (and went back in time further) came back to the back in time section (all the while bouncing back [forward?] at times to the 'present' as the 'Outside' storyline/dialog required, then back to the past until the story was over and we go 'back' to the present and end the 'outside' story and the play.

I suppose another funny thing is the Tavernkeeper is in on it all the time but never says anything and plays along with the Storyteller... oops... gave it away...

As we got wonderful comments and lots of applause, I am assuming the set & dialog did well (somewhat of medieval in it's delivery without being too much, nor did I try and make it modern). The costumes were simple and didn't detract/distract the audience - you knew who the characters were by what they did/said.

I hope that helps...
btw, the complete video production is now 2-200 meg wmv files downloadable on my site, I'd urge you to read the script first as i didn't direct the play so some dialog/directions you'll see were not approved by me and, I believe, really ruined those moments...
oh well,... what can you do?


The Tavern & The Storyteller - A Musical Comedy
http://home.comcast.net/~castle.walls/tavern/index.html
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 776
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 776
Hi Steve,

A common device in musicals that instantly comes to mind is the tribute song in the musical that glorifies (or at least describes)a particular location: think - Bali Hai (South Pacific), Buenos Aires (Evita), even Oh What a Beautiful Morning (Oklahoma) etc etc

Another example I can think of is, in the King and I ,the introduction to the locale is done by presenting the story through the eyes of Anna, a stranger to Siam. We discover the society along with her and her son.

Then there's always the narration style book that just tells you where you are...lol

Oh...and your comment about setting a show in limbo...well I actually saw a workshop of one this summer!!! It was all about the Catholic church eliminating limbo as an after death option. Needless to say, it was kind of a weak premise for a whole musical, but the big 'show stopper' number was called "In Limbo"...lol


Last edited by Christine Mascott; 09/06/07 09:52 AM.

Christine Mascott
----------------------------
formerly just Christine
http://www.syberdelix.com
http://www.christinemascott.com
vocalist/graphic design/web hosting and design
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 52
Hi Christine,

Your examples are good ones. I was thinking in more general terms--which I supposed I should have said in the first place. Basically, the composer can write music that has no direct connection to the time or place (think "Pippin," which takes place in the time of Charlemagne but uses 1970 pop-rock), or is a pastiche of the music of that time and place (the show within the show in "The Drowsey Chaperone"), or uses something in between--what I call "flavoring"--to varying degrees, as in the Rodgers and Hammerstein examples you gave.

My favorite "missed" attempt is "Phantom of the Opera," in which ALW does a credible job of mimicing operas that would have been popular at the time/place of the story, AND writes some decent "real life" music. The "missed" part is the Phantom's own music--almost all cheesey 1980s disco.

There's the use of quotation, which must be done with caution. Sondheim, of all people, makes a mistake in "Assassins" in "How I Saved Teddy Roosevelt" (I might be slightly off about the title). This number relies on two Sousa marches, and while he does interesting things with them, they're too present for us to ignore and then compare with Sondheim's "own style."

Then there's the use of what I'll call analagous music, music that gives us a sense of the time and place without our having to actually hear or even know the real music of that time/place. An example is "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum," which takes place in ancient Rome. The music is vaudeville/burlesque all the way though, which make sense. The show is a bedroom farce much like early burlesque, we don't know what Ancient Roman music sounded like, and so on.

Anyway, them's my thoughts.


Steven Rosenhaus
Singer/Songwriter
Composer/Conductor

Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
warriorgirl (2024)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5