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#538112 - 09/02/07 06:57 PM 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :)  
Joined: Sep 2007
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KevD0 Offline
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KevD0  Offline
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Posts: 28
Hello. New here and very new to writing. I'm not even sure i can call it that for now.

Here is my first draft at my first song i'm trying to write. Don't be alarmed that there's no chorus. I guess i never thought about it, or never thought i required one as i'm trying to get a certain "imagery" to the story going on other than a "catch" sort of thing.

This is only a first draft so please don't hold back from letting me know what's wrong, what can be done, what can't be done etc etc.. i'm here to learn smile

There is a personal story behind the song but i'm hoping it's not too cryptic that it's difficult to interpret. Hope it doesn't sound too pretentious as i have a fear it may sound that way.

As for now i can't really think of a name to give it so it's "untitled" at the moment.




"Untitled"

Heather and roses stir and yawn as they warm to the break of dawn.
The birds and the bees all swirl in the breeze amongst the flowers and trees that they perch on.
No morning star and dark light afar from the tightly knit land that i weave on.
And there are no worries from the night that i had just came from.

A white bird looks over me, tips her wings and sings "you're alright, son"
And the motherly warmth radiates and evaporates uncertainties of late.
But what is this, this unspoken flight disappearing south on into the night.
And the warmth cools to cold and as a bitter petal of a tear falls i know then that she's gone, i'm left alone.

And as she flies up into a distant silhouette dark clouds appear in a vortex of regret.
Feathers of white flutter to the ground as slowly as snowflakes, confusion and doubt.
But for now everything is lost in a cover of cold feathery tears.
A blanket upon a blanket that was once woven is now stained with fears.

My broken heart fell to pieces, came tumbling down like stones from a crumbling cliff.
And as my head hangs low i watch myself go like salt melting snow, like the sun setting below.
My defense, my thorns, all perked up and keen to keep at bay the things i should have seen.
But for now they are all but a flickering dream.

Through the winter every day seems much of the same.
Occasionally a star breaks through, a glimmer from the past, a reminder in the dark.
That i am not alone i just need a guiding light to a landmark.
Unknown but not unfamiliar, a place i've been or not yet seen?.
Shown now that what has been had to have been to make real what was the dream.

And as the heather and roses stir and yawn as they warm to the break of dawn.
And i forget all the worries from the night that i have just come from.
I realise now that sometimes darkness is the brightest light we can depend on.
And with a little courage and hope we will continue to weave further on.

#538125 - 09/02/07 09:04 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: KevD0]  
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Noel Downs Offline
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Noel Downs  Offline
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Gungal NSW Australia
Howdy and welcome Kev smile

Well for a first effot you have some great ideas... nice work and congratulations.... I've added some notes below that may help improve what you have smile

Cheers Noel

Couple of things you will find in any basic book on song writing are structure, meter and rime


Structure is the layout of the verses and chorus,

meter is the cadence of the words,

rime is well the rime scheme of the verses and chorus.

if V = Verse and c = Chorus the most basic structure for a song is... V1 C V2 C V3 C... this is only a guide you can mix around a change it all you want eg C V V C, or V V C V C C or even V V V V V V V .... and so on there are no hard and fast rules.

As to meter a verse is broken in to stanzas normaly that is your basic rimeing pair... eg

Heather and roses stir and yawn
As they warm to the break of dawn.

is one stanza, you may or may not have more than one stanza to a verse or chorus... again this is just a simple example stanzas can also have three lines or more if you want them too....

The meter of the first half of the stanza should = the meter of the second half of the stanza

and

The meter of Verse 1 should = the meter of Verse 2

An example of a stanza metering well is

Jack and Jill
went up the hill.

a simple way to bring meter close.. is to count syllables... but this is in no way infallible, the main issue is some words sing well, others do not.

A song needs to meter well if you are seeking a composer to put music to your lyric.

Rime is a little more difficult to explain, end rimes, internal rimes, perfect and near rimes are terms often used... and there are many more I don't yet know but the idea is that all the verses should have the same rime scheme...

If each letter a different rime and same letters = same rimes and each letter represents a different line common rime schemes are,

a, b, c, b

a, b, b,

a, a, b, b,

a, a, a, a,

a, b, c, d, e, c.









http://www.soundclick.com/noeldownsandfriends


Tolerance means if you don't like something you ignore it
#538198 - 09/03/07 05:30 AM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Noel Downs]  
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KevD0 Offline
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KevD0  Offline
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

I did realise at the time that my verses sometimes deviate from one rime scheme, which is something i'll try to clear up. I do have a singing style in my head and it all seems to fit (for now) with that style.

I'll work on the stanza thing like you say as some parts don't flow so well.

I'm still not sure about a chorus though, i can't seem to think of something, maybe i don't quite need one, i don't know! maybe one will come to me at some point.

thanks again and i'll go have a think!


#538259 - 09/03/07 12:26 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: KevD0]  
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Bill Robinson Offline
Bill Robinson  Offline

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Curmudgeonville, Tn
Hi Kev
Welcome

Noel gave you some very good points to consider.

One problem new writers always seem to share is never knowing when to stop talking. Songs are not books or essays or poetry. If you make the song to wordy you will lose the listener or "reader" in the first verse.
Another common mistake is trying to be too clever. Songs should be conversational. Sing the story like you are sharing your most intimate secrets with your best friend. How would you say these things to him/her?
Read your lyric;
This line;No morning star and dark light afar from the tightly knit land that i weave on.

Who talks like that? also, I have not a clue what the line means. Listeners do not want to have to read a liner note to figure out what you are saying.

Now the next line;And there are no worries from the night that i had just came from.

This is a good line. It is clever without being too clever or contrived. It is easy to understand. I would drop the "and' and the "had" and possibly the "that"ie:There are no worries from the night I just came from.

Rhyme schemes can be tricky. When you have a song without chourus's Rhyme scheme can get monotonous if you are not careful.

These are just a few thoughts to help you on your journey.

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 09/03/07 12:33 PM.

Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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#538267 - 09/03/07 01:34 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Moker Jarrett Offline
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Moker Jarrett  Offline
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jacksonville, fl
Kev,
welcome to JPF...quick suggestion...find a line that you can repeat and weave the story back to...this is referred to as the hook. It is usually the title of the work and the part in commercial writing that reels in the listener and is instantly recognizeable as that piece of work. Writing songs is a complex thing, there are many angles from which to approach. There is a wealth of information, guidance, friendship, expert musicianship, and very accomplished writers here. Dive in, be like a sponge...watch your work evolve from lines on a page , to lyrics someone will be trying to help you get music going for...you will eventually pick up the structure of the songs you want to write by studying what successful songs in that genre do...you've got a good way with words,things will work out fine, enjoy what you're doing and approach it from a point you are comfortable with, knowing that if you intend to compete for commercial viability, you will be going against the best in the world...be true to your own sense of the craft and enjoy it...Moker

#538289 - 09/03/07 02:15 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Moker Jarrett]  
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Gary E. Andrews Offline
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Very poetic, philosophical. 90% of 'songs' are about relationships. About 5% are about lifestyle, going out on Saturday night, etc. This 'lyric' is more in that lifestyle vein, although more poetic and serious-minded. While good poetry, it may be too sophisticated for most singing styles, too philosophical for the masses. Others have pointed out the structural shortcomings for rhyme scheme, and song styles, the need for the same number (or nearly the same) in lines that would be sung to the same melody as the musical structure repeats in consecutive verses. And the strategic summary hook line. It does find its way through exposition of the character's observations, with some good imagery and symbolism, to a positive conclusion, and I always like that.

This line, below, shifts the immediacy of preceding lines, happening now, to a past tense.
And there are no worries from the night that i had just came from.
You could say, "...that I have just come from."
Consistency of time tense is essential.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#538301 - 09/03/07 03:00 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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KevD0 Offline
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KevD0  Offline
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really appreciate the comments, very helpful!

I'll definitely get to work on the rhyme scheme and hopefully in doing so shorten the lines down a little too if possible to make it more doable for song.. i was probably being too ambitious.

I'll also look out for my tenses as well, it is something i read about but never looked over before i posted it as it's my first draft sort of thing.

Another thing I'll do is make it easier to understand at first listen. I think the reason that I've approached it in this way is that i like songs that have you think, but again, at the same time you do want them to make sense.

I've taken all your comments on board and I'll get to work on it asap then re-post the new lyrics. I'll probably run into more problems, but if we never ran into any problems we wouldn't learn as much so it's a positive thing.

Thanks,

Kev.



#538338 - 09/03/07 06:12 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: KevD0]  
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KevD0 Offline
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KevD0  Offline
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Well i've had a little spare time tonight, which i've freshly run out of so i'll post what i've got so far with your help.

I'm not sure about verse 1 line 3 but i put it in just now for the sake of it.


"Lonely Night"

Heather and roses stir and yawn as they warm to the break of dawn.
The birds and the bees all swirl in the breeze amongst the flowers and trees that they perch on.
It's a place of beauty and the future smells fruity, that's the tightly knit land that i weave on.
And there are no worries from the lonely night that i had just come back in from.

A white bird looks over me, tips her wings and sings "you're alright, son"
And the motherly warmth radiates upon what was then my icey complexion.
But what is this, this unspoken flight disappearing south on into the night.
The warmth is lost and a petal of a tear does drop, she's gone, i don't feel right.

And as she flies into a distant silhouette dark clouds appear in a vortex of regret.
Feathers of white flutter to the ground as slowly as snowflakes, like they've never met.
And everything is lost in a cover of cold feathery tears, it could be years many many years.
A blanket upon a blanket that was once woven is now stained with my own fears.

My broken heart fell to pieces and came tumbling down like stones from rock faces.
And as my head hangs low i watch myself go like salt melting snow now just empty spaces.
My defense are my thorns and they're perked up and keen to keep at bay what i should've seen.
But for now all i have is this taint and a flicker that's a faint recurring dream.

Through the wintery days all things seem to me nothing but much of the same.
Occasionally a star breaks through, a glimmer from the past, a reminder in this dark refrain.
Unknown but not unfamiliar, a place i've been or have yet to have seen?.
Shown now that what has been had to have been to make real what was the dream.

And as the heather and roses stir and yawn as they warm to the break of dawn.
And i forget all the worries from the lonely night that i have just come back in from.
I realise now that darkness may be the brightest light that we can depend on.
All things happen for a reason and we've still been weaving and will continue to weave on.



Again, thanks again for your precious time!


p.s. if you're still unsure on how it may be sung or fit to song you could sample say Joanna Newsoms - Emily, it'll give you a rough idea.

#538852 - 09/05/07 12:09 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: KevD0]  
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Derek Hines Offline
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United States Oregon
Hey KevDo

I hate rewrting others creations cause I don't want to rob you of your creative ideas. Here is a the only way I know of though to convey what the others are saying about lyrics. I know this will looked hacked but give it a chance maybe you'll get some ideas. i really do like your work here it's just overtly poetic.

"Lonely Night"

Heather and roses stir and they yawn
As they warm to the break of the dawn.
The birds and the bees all swirl in the breeze
Amongst the flowers between the trees

It's a place of beauty and the future smells sweet,
Itís the tightly knit story I weave complete
There are no worries from the lonely night
That I came in from to the light

The lonely night I came in from
Was full of wonder and spells
Taking me through my dreams
To the bottom of a wishing well
Uncovering things inside my mind
Of which I could not tell
The lonely night I came in from
Is a night I know to well

A white bird tips her wing, & sings "itís alright my son"
Her motherly presence fully warms up my icy complexion.
But this unspoken flight disappears to the night.
Warmth is lost a tear drops, i don't feel right.

The lonely night I came in from
Was full of wonder and spells
Taking me through my dreams
To the bottom of a wishing well
Uncovering things inside my mind
Of which I could not tell
The lonely night I came in from
Is a night I know to well

This is of course not polished or finshed and some of your continued work has not been reformated this is just to give you some ideas of how to turn this into a true lyric keep or sweep any or all of it. Good luck with it


All the worlds a song and all the people Singers

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=740346
#538963 - 09/05/07 04:13 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Derek Hines]  
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Sam Wilson Offline
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Sam Wilson  Offline
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"And as she flies up into a distant silhouette dark clouds appear in a vortex of regret.
Feathers of white flutter to the ground as slowly as snowflakes, confusion and doubt.
But for now everything is lost in a cover of cold feathery tears.
A blanket upon a blanket that was once woven is now stained with fears."

This verse, along with the rest of the piece, is stunning.......you've done very well here for a beginner, and not many people really impress me like that.


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#540439 - 09/11/07 09:57 AM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: Sam Wilson]  
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PogoDog Offline
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Let me begin by saying that ajk did a great job condensing and conforming your lyrics to commercial standards. It's a brand new song worth considering.

But it's hardly worth the edit if the original beauty isn't reborn elsewhere in another song. Or a collection of songs, perhaps. So my support goes towards your original effort. To make "Lonely Night" into a song - as is.

Of course a song of this style and length will have limited appeal but those who love it will enjoy it for many reasons and are probably accustomed to 10 -20 minute song performances. Similar, as you said, to works such as "Emily" and one of my favorites - "Ballad Of The Runaway Horse", performed by: Jennifer Warnes. Written by: Leonard Cohen.

All the best,
Randy -Dog

#542173 - 09/18/07 02:51 PM Re: 1st song, 1st draft, probably need a little guidance! :) [Re: PogoDog]  
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KevD0 Offline
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Hey thanks for all the comments.

great work on condensing the lyrics. I've tried doing that myself but with little success.. what you've done there is great.

However, i want to keep as much of the lyrics there, maybe I'm just stubborn. I've given up trying to fit it to one song, however long it may have been.

I've decided to make a small CD, probably consist of 12 tracks in the following structure:

track1: verse 1 from the lyrics (around the 1 minute mark for this and other verses.)
track2: instrumental work based on the feeling of the first verse. (hard to say, probably 3 - 5 minutes depending)
track3: verse 2
track4: instrumental based on verse 2.
etc.
etc.

I've currently got about 40% of it done and most of the other ideas are there, then it's just mixing etc and I'll post the results up.

From one ambitious idea to another! what ever keeps us going eh?

Last edited by KevD0; 09/18/07 02:52 PM.
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