JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum American Idol contest - when the well connected get greedy

That fact is, it was SUPPOSE to be an amatuer competition and it WASN'T! Let me say it again. IT WASN'T! I agree with southbound. Wether there were connections which I am sure there were, a professional was picked. He was great, but I had to laugh when Ryan Seacrest asked him to stand up in the audience the night Jordan and Blake sang and he acted like he didn't even know him. Ha! What a crock! This guy had already written the song for the JR A.I. winners CD. Come on! Don't even try to pull one over on me. Don't tell me there aren't connections. The rest of us didn't even have a stinkin chance. I still stand behind my post that alot of our songs did NOT get listened to. Let me say it again, DID NOT get listened to.

Speaking in your defense Southbound,

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

I have absolutely NO axe to grind here, but let me just say that the names below are the "pros" all the inside connections that soutbound has offered up. I am way ahead of most of the people I know as far as who's who in music...and I have NEVER heard of even one of them. I included Jordin and Melinda because I never heard of them until AI either

Colin Armstrong),
Mikal Reid and Marti Frederiksen)
Jennifer Hamady)
Kelly Corsino)
Cal Harris Jr.)
Sam Sims)
(CJ Vanston)
(Shedrick Mitchell)
(Byron Zanos)
Dagiel Bennett
Reed Waddle)
(Lane Lenhart)
(Nelson Kole)
Vinnie Colaiuta
Erin Boheme's
Diana Dewitt)
Scott Krippayne
Melinda Doolittle
And Jordin Sparks
Jaci Velasquez,
Rebecca Saint James,
Kathy Troccoli,
Point of Grace
Matthew Ward.
Andy Marvel.
Katelyn Tarver
Kari Kemmil
Jorge Corante

What you say is entirely correct.

However, who among us would not discard all our poorly contrived and unprofessional quality, dreadfully stupid love songs, coupled with those cheesey intrumental stage and/or vocal performances, for one really good shot at getting publically acknowledged for who we are and what we do at the nation level?

I say NO to self criticism and shortselling!
I say YES to selling not our fears, but ourselves!

Hi Herbie! Actually I recognized several names on your list. They are well know signed Contemporary Christian Artists that have been out for years. I used to go to Matthew Ward concerts back in the 70's. He is my all time favorite male vocalist. What a voice!! Kathy Trocolli, Rebecca St. James (from Australia or New Zealand)Jaci Velesquez, and Point of Grace are really well known artists in the Christian Community. They have major record deals and have each recorded several CD's. I have been to all of their concerts. I can't shoot down my fellow CCM writers. They are out there doing God's work. There isn't much money in Christian music unless your name happens to be Michael W. Smith or Amy Grant. You can probably count on one hand the number of Christian Artist who have made some decent money doing Christian music. I think the rest get by ok. Believe me,I have made peanuts doing Christian music. But I love it! There is nothing else like it.

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

Tammy,

If you wanted it to be an "Amateur" contest, then why did YOU enter? You're not an amateur by most definitions. You've received money for your work. You have sold CD's. You are no longer an amateur. So, if you thought it was "supposed" to be an Amateur ONLY contest, then you violated the rules right? Now, you can argue you aren't a "Pro" all you want, but your credentials say otherwise. Anyone who has released 1, let alone 3 CD's and sold copies of each is far far far from "Amateur." And had YOU won all of this, the "Southbounds" (male, female or it) would include you in the conspiracy as well. One person's Amateur is another's Pro. I would certainly consider Kelly Corsino no more of a Pro than I would you on any level.

I noticed a few times Southbound suggested he/she/it had an idea of "why" I was taking the side of AI on this. I am still waiting to hear THAT particular conspiracy theory. Should be good for some laughs.

Brian

Well I guess Brian, and all those involved on this, we all have different ideas of what we consider PRO. Hmmmm this is a real good point to discuss. I believe pro for alot of us is when we feel like we hit the big time. That is when someone big like a signed artist does our song. Or if you make it big as an artist yourself. Until that point alot of us still feel like we are plugging away trying to make it. Let's face it. Doesn't it feel like we haven't make it till we get a cut on someones CD? Am I right in my thinking about this?

Brian, I love that you make us all feel special that if we cut a CD and sell a copy were are a pro. But would you call William Hung a pro? He cut a CD and did a music video. ha! But would you say he made it because he is really talented? In this day and age anyone can sit at home and make their own CD. But does that make them a pro? Heck A.I told everyone to sit at home and just do there own CD at the computor. Does that make us all pro's? I don't know. I hardly doubt it. It was quite misleading for alot of innocent people who actually think they are good enough to send something into American Idol.

I appreciate your compliments. Who wouldn't. Does anyone else have any thoughts on what you consider being a pro songwriter or artist really is? IS there a dollar amount? A magic number of sales we make that take us there? Or is a popularity contest? How well are you known? Share your thoughts.

Tammy

www.Tammyedwards.com

Hello all,
I don't know the definitions of pro or amateur by legal standards, nor do I think it really has any bearing on this entire subject. The contest was open to anyone, although promoted to attract amateurs more so than pros. Legally, AI had the legal caveat in their promotion as well as on the forms we all signed which stated that they had the right to change the rules whenever they pleased. So, all of this is such a moot point. We all signed the entry form with all the legal mumbo jumbo on it. We all participated in hopes of winning. So, an amateur didn't win. In fact, the winners had already written for AI. It does bode of having an inside track, but that's the nature of all business everywhere. Even if they did do something unethical, and I'm not stating that they did or didn't, but even it they did, what good could possibly come from putting any more energy into a dead issue? Unless some legal mind finds enough evidence to file a class action suit in an effort to break the AI machine, then it is done. I don't see how breaking the AI machine will do anybody any good, either. It is what it is.

I say, take your wonderful energy and place it where it will be more productive. Did any of you get anything worthwhile out of the experience that was worth the ten dollar entry fee? I sure did. It got me writing songs again. It got me to find JPF. It got my AI entry song on a CD that will help earn money for a charity which promotes arts in a children's school. All of that is certainly worth the ten bucks.

I love all of you guys and I just hate to see any more energy put toward this contest. It's not worth it. You are all too talented and I am so proud to be part of such an amazing group.

If you didn't get into the top 20, then quite simply your song wasn't good enough.

By not good enough, not as suitable as the other entries for the style and genre required.

Do these folks know each other, or know of each other ? Of course they do. Just as any professional group at the top of their game does.

Do professional soccer players know each other. Yes. How about executive chefs ? Yes.

Just because you make a mean stir fry and kick a soccer ball around in the back yard, doesn't necessarily mean you can compete with those who have dedicated a great deal of their life to their profession.

Now, back to the songwriting.........

cheers, niteshift

Everybody seems to think this is about amateur vs Pro.
It's not.
It's about whether the songs
were judged by the music and lyrics only.
And if even 1 of the songs were chosen
for any other reason.
Than the whole contest was a fraud.
Brian you have called me an it 3 times.
All I have done is posted opinions and facts
in a cival manner.
No reason to result to name calling.

Thank You Tamara64,
It's nice to know I"m not alone in here.

You are welcome Southbound. I will always be a little sad about how that contest all went down.:( But I also agree with Heidi, there is a time to let go and put my energy elsewhere. I refuse to let this contest drag me down. My positive thing was that I found about 5 to 7 new people to co write with me. I may only have bits and pieces done on a song or two with each one of them right now but I couldn't be happier and I know in time one by one we will get them all done. That is 7 new doors that have a possibility to open for me and them. When a door shuts a new window or door opens.

You all may have read on another new post that I got burned bad on another songwriting contest a week ago. That one hurt too, but I gotta forgive and move on. This one I was actually the runner up and the prize money wasn't even given out to the runner up this year. It would have been a couple of thousand dollars at least. The lady ended up not having money and was afraid to tell us. It was pretty ugly...the winners pulled out and so did I. What did I learn from this? People are human and make mistakes. So do I. I have been hurt just as I have hurt others. I have to forgive her even though I am angry. She will ruin my happiness only if I let her. So now I will move on and keep writing with my new co writers and pursue other great avenues with the songs.

What I am saying is, just don't let all the negative things eat you alive. Believe me, I know life isn't fair. Alot of us have paid our dues and we still get stiffed. I figure it is better to try and be positive than to wallow in the negative. I don't always sound like that when I post on here. I am human too. I have bad days. But I try and I do mean well.

Chin up!!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

Southbound,

Well, since you won't indicate who you are (obviously not willing to put your name behind your comments.. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, if you're anonymous, as you are, then you have very little credibility in a discussion on any topic), calling you an "it" is actually better than guessing male or female. So let's continue to call you the neutral "it" until you indicate at least if you're a "he" or "she."

You seem to have no argument of any kind at this point. You say it's not about Pro versus Amateur. (That was brought up wasn't it? So it was discussed). You say it's not about who is connected to who or who knows who (you brought that up with your big list right? So it was discussed). Now you say it's ONLY about the words and music. So I challenged you to provide 1 single example of the 24,980 songs not chosen that was better than the song that won. If that is your only beef, yet you can't provide a single example of a better song, then what exactly is your argument?

Again:

1. It was NEVER limited to Amateurs. So the fact that professionals entered AND did well is expected. It was a huge prize to win and many many many pro's entered something. You complain that they implied it was for amateurs only, but that's simply not true at all. But then you distance yourself from that argument. So why keep bringing it up?

2. You listed all the conspiracy "connections" that some of the Top 20 had with various people connected with the show, the show's TV network, the judges various careers and the staff and contestants various careers. You made it sound like that was a smoking gun that proved something wrong must have happened. Then Iggy gave a perfect reply showing how easy it is to reveal all sorts of direct connections to people involved in the show on various levels. Had Iggy gotten one of the Top 20 slots, you'd be posting his name as a smoking gun as well. But he's not really in a position to get favors from their staff even with all his direct and indirect connections. Everyone is connected who is doing much of anything over any period of time, let alone those pursuing a music career full time. That's reality. If someone like a Steve Seskin can't get a leg up with an artist he's already written 3 #1 songs for, why would a completely unknown songwriter have a leg up because of some connection to someone else connected to the show? The answer is they wouldn't. If connections led to those Top 20, then how do you explain all the other connected people who DIDN'T get chosen? It's a classic conspiracy theorist advantage that you only have to show a few tiny facts to support your grand plan while ignoring all the other obvious and relevant factors.. you act like there's a smoking gun, but in fact you have not a single piece of evidence of any kind that anything wrong happened.

3. Now you say it's ONLY about the words and music. Well, the Top 20 seemed very deserving to me. I was shocked actually by how good the collection of songs were. They sounded almost as good as our Pop, Rock, R&B or Singer Songwriter nominees from last year. We screened 350,000 songs to get those nominees. They only had 25,000 to work with. I was very impressed by the results. Since no one has brought forward a song better than the winner, and since apparently no songs OTHER than the winner got any money or benefit from it all, then they chose the right song. Why would it be surprising that the person who wrote it works in the industry and would have his finger on the pulse of what those folks were looking for? That's the REAL benefit of the connections. Not that they would chose his song unfairly, but that he knows what they like and he entered something that would meet their desires. That's called professionalism. And the truth is that I never even remember the guys name unless someone writes it down and points it out. He's hardly a household name in most households and I doubt much of anyone outside of Christian music fans have ever heard of him, even AFTER he won. So if it's about words and music, the right and deserving song won. That was the point of the contest right? Find the best song for the opportunity? Seems to me that it was VERY successful and honest then.

Posting opinions is fine. Posting facts is fine. But your facts don't prove anything or make your 3 points (or whatever new point you will reach for next). Your opinion, though polite, is still accusing people of illegal and immoral behavior with no proof and a flawed theory that doesn't hold up. If you call people dishonest over and over without proof and nothing more than a flawed theory, that's not being civil. It's being libelous. You're the one calling names my anonymous friend. You're calling the people running the AI contest dishonest and fraudulent. You're calling those who got nominated dishonest as well. Some of them happen to be connected to JPF as members. I've never met any of them personally, but I don't need to have met them to defend them. Right is right. In this case, you're wrong AND you're throwing these bombs anonymously, meaning you're taking no personal risk or responsibility for your statements while trying to assassinate the reputations of others. At least Tammy has the integrity to put her name (and even her face) behind her beliefs. You are simply throwing bombs from the dark shadows where you're hiding like a coward, but making claims like a crusader. Pretty lame in the end.

Brian

So now you are going to call me a coward.
Really kinda childish.
I stand behind the facts.
At first I just wanted to talk about it.
But to tell you the truth I am letting it go.
Not because of You.
But because it really isn't worth it.
But if you are going to say it was fair
That a back-up singer on the show
Was able to be in the top 20
Or that a producer with Clive Davis
Was able to be in the top 20 was fair.
Or studio musicians
who have worked with Randy Jackson was fair.
Than I must disagree.
This will be my last post on the subject
Brain I have no hard feelings.

It's not fair, it's just not fair ! ( Stamping feet and punching the air )

I'm taking my bat and ball and going home !

Dummyspit....dummyspit......dummyspit......perchew !

cheers, niteshift

Ain't read all the 162 responses before mine but did read the first eight or nine. The word "ringer" came up as in "somebody threw some ringers in the mix." That reminded me of something that happened to me.

I was on the old country music Nashville Network game show Fandango once upon a time. I won 4 shows. On one show I got the most points anyone had ever gotten. I was good. All that worthless country music knowledge in my brain was finally getting me somewhere. Fandango later had much better prizes but while I was on there they didn't have any cars or anything like that. I won stuff like carpet, knives, a tanning bed, a kitchenaid processor, etc. I won $4,000 worth of stuff. I could have got a Vegas trip if I hadn't been scared I'd lose stuff I'd already won.

On my last day, this dude named Dennis was a contestant. Dennis had come from Lousiana and worked at the Hall of Fame. Strangely, he didn't say he came to Nashville get into music. He worked in the Hall of Fame. I knew those folks had pretty much the same amount of worthless country music knowledge in their brain as I had in mine. I was worried. Halfway through the show though, I was ahead by a big margin. Wheeeeeee! At the end however, I was behind Dennis. He won. At first I thought they threw a ringer in on me. A guy from the country music hall of fame! Why did they do that to me?

Later on I was watching a show on NBC where the people sat in what I call bathtub like things and Dennis was on there. I can't remember if he won or not.

Still later I was watching Jeopardy and there he was again! And he won! I think he might have been a 5 time champion. So was he a ringer, a friend of the Fandango powers that be, brought in to destroy me? I don't think so. He was just smart. I was smart too but on that one day out of five, he was just a little smarter than me.

This has nothing to do with the AI contest. I just wanted to talk about as Springsteen calls "Glory Days."

Hey Iggy....In the spirit of networking, can you hook me up with some free Simpson toys for my kids?