JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Major Opportunity for all Unsigned Artists wanting a big break!

Well…awesome news people!!! A few years ago I (James Oddo) Executive Produced and Music Supervised an award winning independent feature film named "The Utopian Society." After many years of blood, sweat and tears, myself and my partner John P. Aguirre (our fearless producer/director) are very proud to announce that PolyChrome/Warner Brothers has acquired "The Utopian Society" for domestic distribution. That means we will be distributed nationally to all the standard video and mass merchandise retailers all over this fine country of ours…(Canada as well) not to mention internet sites such as NetFlix..etc.
Now my favorite part of this….they have also agreed to distribute the CD sound track within the DVD package as an added bonus. So if you purchase "The Utopian Society" you'll also get a CD of the sound track packaged inside the DVD box…how cool is that??? Not to mention being available on ITunes!!! But there's more….We (Song Factory Productions) along with PolyChrome/Warner Brothers will be putting together a national college tour to launch in '08 to coincide with the release of the DVD. This tour will feature bands from the sound track as well as a showing of "The Utopian Society"…a little rock and movie for ya!!!
We have 90 days to present the movie to PolyChrome//Warner Brothers so they can get it ready for a 2008 release. I've decided to replace about 6 songs within the movie with songs that we at Song Factory Productions (James Oddo, Shawn Lopes and Hugh Colocott) have written. I will be producing them here in Hollywood, California so here's what we are doing. If you'd like to be considered for one of the six songs going into the movie, give us a holler. There are 12 songs in the movie itself, but I will be adding another 4 or 5 songs to the song track for a total of 16 to 17 songs on the released sound track.
So if you are a singer/performer looking for original songs and production and would like to be in a nationally distributed feature film and sound track…..give us a holler so we can discuss the details. This is a guaranteed distribution deal with PolyChrome/Warner Brothers…and quite a great opportunity for you unsigned/indie artist.
Look forward to hearing from you.
James Oddo

www.theutopiansocietymovie.com

www.myspace.com/songfactoryproductions

pphonicrecords@yahoo.com

Hi James,

I just sent you a message on your myspace page regarding this opportunity. I'd be interested in submitting material and/or recording.

Thanks for posting.

Barrie Z. www.myspace.com/barrieandcompany
www.sonicbids.com/barrie

Barrie,

It's only a legit opportunity if they aren't asking YOU for any money at any time. I asked them to clarify on their other post here. Why people don't simply supply details on a post like this after typing all sorts of non specific info is beyond me. If they are legit, they'll post what they are paying. If it's no pay, that might still be okay. If they ask you for a dime, it's a rip off. Legit films pay the artists. Small indie films with no distribution sometimes defer payments or even ask artist to waive their fees on first release (versus later release on video etc.), but this film has, according to them, major distribution already, meaning it's not a small indie with no distribution. They should definitely be paying. Not sure why they don't just say that upfront. They have a budget. What is it? And if they ask for money.. then run away.

Brian

Yes, would have to agree that once the distribution deal has been signed, the film is on track for release with a budget in place. Deferred payment is quite common in this circumstance, up until the point of release, and would be regarded as routine. A quick outline of the proposal to the artist would clarify the postion of the company and provide the arist with something to go on, in whether to contact this company and proceed any further.

cheers, niteshift

Hello Brain and NightShift,

You both obviously have no clue what it’s like in the indie film making arena. Our film is a low budget indie film financed by me, filmed several years ago. Yes we now FINALLY have major distribution through PolyChrome/Warner Brothers but if you think we’ve received upfront money from them you are sadly misinformed. Since a few of the actors in our film have emerged from NoWhereVille and are now making a name for themselves, we have acquired a major distribution deal. However, deals for direct to DVD independent feature films are equivalent to being the new young 100lb weakling in a prison full of lifers that haven’t seen a woman in decades…get the idea??

Here’s the bottom line…there are production teams charging $5K and more on myspace just to write and produce a song for performers and promise them nothing but a produced song. We are doing the exact same thing, offering an artist a professionally produced original song with guaranteed distribution from a major distributor plus them retaining mechanical royalties. We’re not asking them to give us a song they wrote and produced and not paying them anything for it either upfront or on deferment. If a performer recorded a song they didn’t write they’d have to paid for it anyway…..so I fail to see how offering an opportunity to not only be in a nationally distributed feature film but sound track as well is ripping them off or taking advantage of them.

I appreciate you guys looking out for other artist, but please be more informed before you comment and call people non-legitimate.

Thank you.

Jim Oddo
www.theutopiansocietymovie.com

Jim,

If you're charging 5K to be in an indie film (which the above post seems to imply), it's a rip off. Period. It's a vanity thing to say "gosh.. I got to perform a song in an indie film! yee ha!"

We know a lot about the music business here. We also know a lot about how musicians are ripped off. This is one such case. Did you ALSO charge all the actors for acting in the film? Did you charge the cameramen for their work? How about the lighting crew? After all, didn't they ALSO get to be in an indie film? If you DIDN'T charge all those folks, that means you took them all seriously as professionals. So why insult the musicians and not only not pay them, but actually CHARGE them to add their own talent and expertise to your project? The reason is that you see them as easy targets to make 30K dollars (if you're charging 5K a song as suggested above) for 6 songs.

It's rip offs like you that are the very worst kind. You've just demeaned your own film as a weakling little indie project, and you've talked about the struggles financially to make it happen by self financing, but then you turn around and ask an artist to not only work free, but to pay YOU money to be in the project. Had you asked the actors and film crew to pay $5000 each to be involved, they would have laughed at you. If they didn't, and you actually got paid from them, then you ripped them all off as well. Talk about raping the new kid in the cellblock. Ack.

Stop being a cancer in the creative industry. You say you're an indie film maker. So why act like a vulture against indie artists? I'll say it again.. you're ripping people off.

NEVER NEVER NEVER pay someone to be on their label, to be published by them or to be in their film. All 3 cases are the definition of getting eaten by a shark.

I will give you credit for one thing Jim. At least you came back and fessed up. Now perhaps you can realize what you're doing and stop it. Leave the dark side and be an upfront film maker. Artist deserve respect, not abuse, just like ANY other member of the crew. Most indie films don't CHARGE the crew to be on the film unless they have some type of direct ownership/control of the project. If you need investors, go out and get them. Don't insult other artists by asking them for money to supply their talent. That means you not only don't value their contribution, you think they should PAY for it. Very sad. Stop being the evil in our sector that you likely lament yourself in your own industry sector.

And if you claim you're offering Production services, then stop being a film maker and become a music producer. But keep in mind that anyone can go out today and hire a producer with significant professional credentials and a cast of session players that have credits for about $1000 dollars a song. 20% of what you're charging. You can get an unknown but competent producer with no music industry credits of any kind with quality but non union session players for half that or less per song. Why are you worth 5K a song? The answer is, you're not.

You may be an honest guy who thought this was a great idea. It's not. It's exactly the same thing dishonest scam artist do all day long. So, don't taint your film and your reputation with this ill conceived plan. You may very well con some singers who don't know any better into doing it. But then you've become part of the dark underbelly of the entertainment industry and that karma always eventually comes home to roost. You would likely be offended or laugh out loud if someone came to an said you could run a camera in their "weakling" little indie film project if you paid them a lot of money.

Brian

Jim, I think what Brian and nightshift(what is your name anyway;-} )are saying is don't pay you's kids any$$$$$$ if your asking for money to get started. Are you asking for money to get started with your company??????? Money just to see if you MIGHT want to use our stuff in your film(s)??????? It was unclear even in your second post. That is what makes me think three times let alone twice. Good luck on your endevour. I hope your intentions are to make everyone a bit of money rather than us paying you for possibilities...for dreams. Congrats on your deal with WB.
I just thought of something you can't ask me for something I don't have. ($)

Good Luck,
R. T.

I've got 70+ songs written(one's not very good though). If you don't need what I don't have($), please let me know subject your looking for. I'll see if I have something befitting.

Jim,

You should know that a lot of the artists here will NOT ever agree to sign up for things like this; we simply don't believe in PAY to PLAY. Period.

Emily

Great news, everyone!

I've been holding out on this announcement, but this seems to be the best time to present this stellar opportunity - one that I believe to be truly unique in the industry.

Given the recent proliferation of scams on places like MySpace, Craigslist, and even our ol' faithful JPF boards, I want to offer you something that will restore your faith in the goodness of people.

On a limited, first-come-first-serve basis, I'm offering unsigned artists and songwriters the chance to mow my lawn for $35.

I know it seems too good to be true, but trust me - this is real. If you come to my house in the D/FW metroplex, bring your own mowing/cutting/edging/bagging/trimming equipment, and pay me $35, you'll get the chance to mow my actual yard.

Wait - there's more! If you're interested in more than just a single gig, I can accommodate you there too! For those who ask me directly, I am prepared to offer a special deal to JPF'ers who say please...

The special deal is called "Two for the Price of Three" (tm) - you pay me $105, and you won't have to mow the lawn that third time!

I realize that some of you may view this opportunity with skepticism - all I ask is that you refrain from pointing out my obvious problems to the more gullible members of the JPF community.

There is one final incentive: the three artists who display the best landscaping mastery will have their names mentioned in their very own 'Thank You' thread right here on the JPF boards - with my highest recommendations.

How can you lose? Sign up now!!

Brian -
That was a fabulous response. As always, makes perfect sense to me.
Thank you ...
Joanne

now... about that lawn deal...

Ok…here we go again….I’ll explain my position like I’m talking to a 2 year old because I think that’s probably what’s needed here. AGAIN….they are OUR SONGS ( written by Song Factory Productions), WE (SFP) will be producing them…..WE (SFP) will be placing them in the film and sound track….all we are looking for are performers…i.e. singers that need original songs that they can use to shop outside of the film. Yes, it is a good thing to say you’ve had a song on a sound track that has been distributed by a major distributor…indie or not…if you guys don’t think so than you know NOTHING about the music business.

Yes, I paid the actors, camera man, grips, craft services…and an entire host of additional people…difference is…they won’t get another dime when the film begins to make sales. As for the artist that participates in the film and sound track, they own the mechanical royalties and will receive a percentage of the net sales. Somebody tell me why I should pay the singers to sing OUR songs and then be placed in MY movie??? If some record label notices their voice and likes the song they are singing on and offers them a record deal…do I get a percentage of their deal because it was gleaned from MY movie and OUR songs???? No…I didn’t think so.

You name me one production company/team that writes and produces songs for singers that doesn’t charge and I’ll show you a song that probably isn’t worth the hard disk space it occupies. Everyone wants to be paid for their work and I’m failing to see how we are ripping artist off. The only difference is….we are guaranteeing that after we have finished producing OUR song that they are singing on…it will be placed in a feature film and on a sound track that has guaranteed major distribution…oh..Wow…what a rip off.

If you are a song writer and have plenty of your own songs…then don’t reply…why are producers that charge for their work a rip off??? You know it’s easy to take pot shots from the bleachers but until you’ve invested hundreds of thousands of dollars of your own money and only to watch a major distribution company rape you because they can…don’t holler from your soap box that of which you don’t understand. We’re not taking their original songs…they are OURS…we wrote them…..we are charging them to record OUR songs and produce them. That’s how it works in this business and you guys should know that. Sure there are producers/production teams that rip off artists all the time, but there are legitimate producers/production companies out there and we are one of them.

So until you can prove me wrong…I think you better reflect on your misinformation, seems more like you are just saying whatever to hear yourself talk and seem important. To those of us that are in the business and have been for a while, you look like a couple of naysayers praying on the fears of those new to the game. Feel free to check us out and you’ll find that we have a great reputation with all the people we work with and have built a reputation for being fair and honest in a business of back stabbing thieves and wannabes.

Jim Oddo
www.myspace.com/songfactoryproductions

James, your film web page looks great and you certainly have won some well-known awards. Perhaps, you thought that charging an artist to have a song produced and placed in your film was a good idea to also raise more funds. It looks good in theory, but doesn't translate very well in practice. My suggestion would be to go to an Indy Label to see if the label would put up the production money in exchange for the promotion of their artists. It might be a better win-win situation in that you could both cross-promote each other. Plus, it wouldn't cost the artists anything. A label may find value in their artists all being on a soundtrack and all touring together to promote both the film and the label. You might even be able to share in the costs of the tour. Just a humble suggestion. Ideas can sometimes lead to solutions.

I have over seventeen years of experience working behind the scenes in television and more than 22 years total in broadcasting. I have been involved in a couple of small-budget independant film projects, and I have never heard of a scam like this. I would file this under "Don't touch with a ten foot pole."

I actually do not do professional music work - like performing - for free! Just like my doctor, dentist or accountant....I expect to be PAID for my professional work.

Can you imagine how offensive and insulting it would be for me to tell my accountant or doctor that I am not going to pay them...?

Emily

s1opes, it seems YOU'RE the one that doesn't have a clue about the business. Even if you're just looking for performers to record on your song to be placed in your movie, you're insane if you think they should pay you. In the real world (read: the recording industry for the last one hundred years or so) performers - yes, even ones that don't write and produce songs - get paid. Be they singers like Christina Aguilera or Nelly Furtado, or studio musicians. In fact, these performers often earn far more than the songwriters and the producers. Do you think Frank Sinatra paid someone $5000 so he could sing "White Christmas"? How stupid are you?

Here's another news flash: indie bands and small-time artists get placed on network TV shows, indie films, and major films ALL THE TIME. And you know what? Those bands never pay for that "privilege". In fact, they are the ones that get paid, and they get paid WELL. I don't give a damn whether your movie is the next "Star Wars", you DO NOT ask us - as musicians - to pay YOU so we can do work for you. Other way around.

The only time a singer should ever pay someone ELSE to sing is if the singer is the one that needs the song. eg. They need a demo produced because they lack the technical ability. If the producer/songwriter needs the song, why the hell should the singer pay to do the work? Your proposal is insulting. Even in a standard record deal, the producer only earns 2-3% of the artist's ROYALTIES (read: the artist doesn't pay a big chunk of cash) and the songwriter earns at most 9.1 cents per song per record sold.

You both obviously have no clue what it’s like in the indie film making arena

Hey Jim,

Unfortunalty I probably have a little more experience in this field than you would think. I have placed music in two indie films, with almost no budget. Was I asked to pay for the privelidge ? Certainly not. It's about getting together a whole bunch of creative people, for hopefully a mutual benefit in the end. The soundtrack, is usually under the auspices of the sound desingner, and as such, has it's own budget and production elements. They do not include charging an artist to be part of they creative team. I've had more than one vocalist work for me on a deferred payment basis, but would never even think of charging them to come on board. It's simply insulting.

I'm not aware of the circumstances of your distribution deal, but that doesn't matter. Find the best vocalists you can to add to the overall sound of your project, and take it from there.

Sidenote ; My wife just recieved a check from a job she did 18 months ago. ( Audio director by trade, boom operator for an indie feature film in this case ) This was on deferred payment, and the film has been picked up by Sony Pictures LA, for international release next year. So, eventually everyone got paid. Do you think the sound designer on that project tried to charge the artists on the soundtrack to be in the film ? Not likely ! He would have included the artists and musicians in his project, FOR FREE as it is of mutual benefit to both parties.

Please don't ask the artist for money. It's simply insulting.

cheers, niteshift

I said this on the other "identical thread" i think this is the ishmael records guy. i must remind everybody that he seems harmless with his lack of knowlege about the industry. but he made leaps and bounds over his last entry. he will be back, and dropping names and making us think he is someone else. he want's 30 grand, and promises nothing to go with it. if the guy he is impersonating knew what was going on he may have a decent lawsuit on his hands.

-steve

Jim, your condescending tone isn't gonna win you any friends here.{Most of us are pretty intelligent, which is why you're being called out in the first place!}
Steve, your baby is A-FRICKEN-DORABLE! When did you find the time?

Jim,

There's so many things wrong with your post I don't even know where to start. You're presenting yourself now as a film AND music expert correct? Okay.. let's examine.

1. You said:

"I’ll explain my position like I’m talking to a 2 year old because I think that’s probably what’s needed here. AGAIN….they are OUR SONGS ( written by Song Factory Productions), WE (SFP) will be producing them…..WE (SFP) will be placing them in the film and sound track….all we are looking for are performers…i.e. singers that need original songs that they can use to shop outside of the film." -Jim Oddo

So you've established clearly that these songs were WRITTEN by you right? Song Factory Productions are the credited songwriters correct?

2. Then you said:

"As for the artist that participates in the film and sound track, they own the mechanical royalties and will receive a percentage of the net sales. " -Jim Oddo

Hmmmm... that sure doesn't sound correct. So let's go back to Music Industry 101 and look up the facts about WHO gets paid "mechanical royalties" shall we? What better source than the Harry Fox Agency who collects and distributes Mechanical Royalties.

Here's what they say:

"What is a mechanical license?
A mechanical license grants the rights to reproduce and distribute copyrighted musical compositions (songs), including uses on phonorecords (i.e. CDs, records, tapes, and certain digital configurations). The Harry Fox Agency was established to license, collect, and distribute royalties on behalf of U.S. publishers that own and/or control the rights to musical compositions. Simply stated, if you want to record and distribute a song that was written by someone else, or if your business requires the distribution of music that was written by others, you must obtain a mechanical license.

Mechanical rights should not be confused with "master rights" that are granted by a record company in order to use an existing recording, or with "performance rights" that are granted by publishers or societies for the public performance of a song. Depending on the use, one may also have to obtain these rights in addition to the mechanical license.

The Harry Fox Agency issues mechanical licenses for phonorecords manufactured and distributed in the United States (including territories and possessions) only. Our mechanical licenses are only available to United States manufacturers or importers with a United States address." -Harry Fox Agency

Gosh.. that sure sounds like the Mechanical Royalties go to the credited SONGWRITER(s) doesn't it? But how can that be.. you've told us it will go to the guy or girl who sings the vocal part after paying you $5000 dollars? Hmmmm..

If you're going to make wild claims about your expertise on a site that deals with the music industry, you might want to at least read a few entry level books on how it ACTUALLY works. That way you won't put your foot in your mouth quite so deeply.

Next, just for fun, you said this:

3. "Yes, I paid the actors, camera man, grips, craft services…and an entire host of additional people…difference is…they won’t get another dime when the film begins to make sales. As for the artist that participates in the film and sound track, they own the mechanical royalties and will receive a percentage of the net sales. Somebody tell me why I should pay the singers to sing OUR songs and then be placed in MY movie??? If some record label notices their voice and likes the song they are singing on and offers them a record deal…do I get a percentage of their deal because it was gleaned from MY movie and OUR songs???? No…I didn’t think so." -Jim Oddo

Well.. So if one of the actors or actresses gets discovered for a giant movie deal based on their performance in a film you wrote and directed and they get a lot of money from being in YOUR movie reading YOUR lines that is somehow a different scenario than than if a singer gets discovered singing YOUR lines in a song in YOUR movie? Wow.. I just don't see the difference there myself. Not to mention you've already PAID the actress upfront.. so they get a double bonus right?

It's clear you not only have no respect for musicians or their talent, you also have absolutely ZERO clue about how the music industry works. So you come to a music site and insult everyone (yeah.. if we're 2 year olds but we understand how a Mechanical Royalty works, and you don't, what exactly does that make you?) and then are exposed as someone who has not even a basic understanding of the music busines and how it works, why should anyone think there would be value being connected to a movie project you did? The truth is that simply being a singer on someone elses song in an obscure indie movie has questionable value to start with. To pay you a dime for the priveledge of giving you free vocals for your song would be simply falling victim to another scam artist.

Care to enlighten us further with your deep understanding and expertise?

Brian

YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So send me some money and I'll send you a song.



Jim..............? Jim...../////////? Hello?!!!! ???

??R. T.

I have heard of resturants where the waiters pay for the privilege of working there, because of the large tips they get.

I'm sure with your multitude of contacts you can find a good singer, just pay them like you should for being the singer on the song. Nothing turns talented people off more than someone who wants to by pass paying for the talent they have worked so hard to achieve. And you being the songwriter, one would think you have respect for talented performers as well, or did you schmooze your way into having your name on the songs as a writer too? As Paul Harvey would say, good day.

Guys.. are you missing what he said. HE is the songwriter. That means HE gets the mechanicals. All he wants is a singer. Period. How much more clear can it be?

Brian

Jim,
My husband and I own and operate a recording studio in which we've recorded and produced songs for Indie Films. The latest Indy film we did some music for even had stars in it like Burt Reynolds and Raquel Welch. It was financed by one person. He paid us our normal fees to do the music. Plus, we would get royalties for only those songs on which we have writing credits. The other songs were done on a buy-out. We haven't seen much royalites as of yet and the film came out last year.

We also write songs and produce artists. We are very happy when an artist will pay to have a demo produced of one of our own songs because it won't cost us money to demo the song. However, we arrange the song according to the way the artist wants to do it, since they are paying for it. Plus, we only charge them our normal studio rate plus the cost of musicians. We've had national releases come out of our studio. One CD we recorded and produced sold over 75,000 copies on the net. We charge $75 per hour plus the cost of musicians. If an artist wants to pay for a producer, that is also extra and the pay is different per producer.

I am also very familiar with the LA music scene as I lived it for a decade with my ex-husband who recorded six records on major labels. Especially in LA, you won't find upcoming artists who will pay $5,000 to record someone else's song unless it's with a top name writer and producer. We are working with an artist currently who lives in LA and paid $2,000 per song to record songs written for her with a known producer. These guys have major credits in the business. So, again, I want to say that your idea sounds good in theory, but it doesn't translate well.

It is apparent that you are more of an Executive Producer (the guy who puts up the money) rather than a Producer (the guy who actually produces the project. While I can understand that you may only be trying to find a creative way to further your film, (a wonderful trait in an Exec. Producer), you just didn't think this idea through well enough. Plus, as Brian pointed out, you don't have the musical nomenclature defined regarding the different types of royaties.

Lastly, when you come to a site such as this one and belittle the group members along with the founder of the site, it does not make for good PR. So, while you do have a good film (as proven by the awards won), and you do have the prize of national distribution, you now need a bit more knowledge on the music end of things. I sincerely hope you work it out to the benefit of your project. I also hope you will take the high road and apologize for losing your temper to these nice folks here at JPF. It will only prove you to be someone who is trying to enhance your film, and not someone who is trying to take advantage of the musical artist.

Respectfully,
Heidi

If all he wants is a singer, he should at least pay the singer union scale for the session. Why in the world would anyone pay him? There is no upside to the singer, at least to any singer with an ounce of talent or intellect.

No wonder I have 55 views on one of my topics, yet only one reply...You're all over here. Don't look now...I think he's gone! Someone help me get a song out eh. ;-} I have an interview with SA Wednesday. God Help me....
Jim...??? Brian...?? Niteshift(what is your name anyway)
????????????Anybody?.....?????

R.T.

Jim,

I have sung on a movie soundtrack before. The song was written by someone else. I was paid up front for my services. I had to negotiate a deal for anything based on additional sales. They valued me as a musician to pay me, much like the people who acted in it and those who worked on it.

Initially I thought this was a request for music from artists that were ready to go. Maybe asking for no fee license up front with something on the back end. Obviously that is not the situation.

I'm gonna have to agree with Brian here, any sane artist worth their vocal cords would not pay $5,000 to record a song written by the producer who is producing it. I know I wouldn't. Also, if one is going to tout expertise in an industry, it would be wise to get the terms and facts straight. Mechanical royalties are paid to the writer based on sales of physical/digital copies of the CD/song.

As for producing, I've produced other artists on occasion when I want an outside voice for a song I've written. They don't pay me. I either do it for free, or I do a buyout for use of their voice. It depends on what they need and what I need. Most often it's the free thing and they get use of the song for their demo/album. If someone came to me with a song they had written and asked me to produce it, I would charge them money. I've done that lots of times. I don't produce songs I didn't write for free.

As for the movie I sang a song for... it had a major star in it and some well known older stars in it. It was released by a major company known as Disney. Did it do much for me? Well, it didn't get me any record deal offers - in fact, unless a movie wins an Oscar or becomes an instant classic, I doubt any artist would get enough recognition to get an offer of that nature. What it did do is make a certain target demographic aware of who I am - that's not a guarantee of instant sales.

I'm failing to see how not getting a piece of future deals on a musician that is hired to sing a song is an issue. I'm betting the actors in said film are not giving up a percentage of future deals based on this movie. If a movie producer could swing a deal like that with actors, I'd say that's an amazing talent.

I'm always amazed at how little value indie films place on sound, audio and music. Try releasing a movie with poor sound and horrible songs, see how well it gets received.

This thread is a dead end.

The thread is a dead issue,with no real response from this person..Other than to dig a deeper hole in order to pull the dirt over himself.

I invite you, the poster, indie film person, to invite me to your office , your place of business and we can have one of those conversation about music in film. We can talk about the people that sing a song in any film...And how no one knocks down the door to hget to them!

I invite you to go to my web site http://songconsultant.com and read my partial credits page , then we ,you and I can sit down and see what is what...

You may want to hire me as your consultant in the music biz...I am in Toluca Lake , Ca, and if you are in the biz, you have to know where that is..

Just maybe you are ok...but your skills in communicating what you are doing either...1.suck or 2.it is a scam, that you really think is not a scam , you need an education..I will gladly give you one.Lunch is on you.And I do not do cheap places.

Dude McLean

http://songconsultant.com

You wrote:



So, you made this song for your movie, right??

Then you wrote:



So you've re-established the fact that this song was written and produced by (SPF) for your movie....

But then you say..:



But the song was written and produced for the MOVIE, NOT the singer. So Mr. Oddo, it seems as though you're contradicting yourself....

I believe you owe Mr. Whitney and all the good folks here at JPF a heartfelt and deep apology for the insults. IMHO.

Mr. McLean...Dude, at least something good came from this thread. I went over to your site and was thrilled with what you have to offer. I envy you. What a great career you are engaged in. To have worked with some of those people must have been incredible even if it was work. I would love to have the opportunity just to talk with you. I bet you have some tales. I'd love to be the one buying you lunch. Unfortunately, I'm in White Bear Lake Minnesota & I haven't any money...Wait a minute...MOM....?!
Well, when she comes home I'll see if I can get some....
...Sorry...;-}
Thanks for bringing something positive to this thread.

R. T. Moore

This thread may be dead for now if he doesn't come back, but since search engines will start picking up on it, if anyone DOES search for this movie (that remains to be seen) it will come up in the search and everyone can read this guys venomous and ignorant attacks and claims. It may also save some poor unsuspecting singer with stars in her/his eyes from wasting $5000.00. And it may also help educate others on what to do and not to do.

Thanks to all our ignorant 2nd graders for stepping up and exposing this guy.

Brian

Just making sure his words are saved for posterity.

I noticed that after James called everyone here 2 year olds and then put his foot way into his mouth and was called out for it, he's disappeared. That's REAL integrity there James. It's one thing to make an ass out of yourself. It's another not to apologize for being one when it's clear you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you came back here 2 times to insult people, but didn't return again to acknowledge how wrong you were clearly suggests you were trying to scam everyone in the first place. So anyone going forward who searches for your name on the net "James Oddo" will find it attached to this post and the fact you were trying to rip innocent people off.

Nice job promoting your film and your career.

Brian

This falls under the category of "Pay to play"

--think I'll pass on this one.

Emily

Doing a search on James Oddo brings up some councilman for many search pages...
Sounds like that Ismael guy...

The sad thing is that he still might be able to find someone who is willing to do this for him. This guy is a disaster- don't ever sign anything with someone who insults you.

Ana Maria Schwartz, Esq.

Anyone here know anyone at Warner Brothers directly? I think a few phone calls letting them know that this guy is scamming musicians using a claim of a distribution deal with their honest companies might be in order. Perhaps WB's music division (where we DO have contacts) will be able to help us shut this guys deal down before he screws anyone else over with misinformation.

Brian

I have made some big mistakes in trying things. One cost my sister thousands. Still beating myself up for then not seeing how the music business worked.

On the right side of business: I got paid for playing the music to an indie film, (composed it too, with Buddy). There were talks about a soundtrack and all, but never talks of because of that, to have US pay to be the performers.

Someone can, though, hire a producer to make a demo or master record for them, with the producer's song, (with no strings attached to a project). BUT in this topic/ad, it's the conflict of interest of the producer, (HIS project), and the bait of make-your-money-later (in so many words), that says rip off to me. They are either misinformed and justifying their ill conceived idea, or are classic con-men. Either way, it's of course very wrong, and no one should consider that project.

Speilberg doesn't even charge for singers! And we know how sales would be just a little more guaranteed from HIM!

Singers and musicians get paid to help "projects". If a performer wants to forgo any income upfront for their services, and wants to deal for back-end money, (with good reason and odds), then fine.

Is that about how most see this?

With the growing power and concerns of JPF, I think it's matter of time before anyone can be called, and with the caller name of Brian Austin Whitney of Just Plain Folks, the call will be taken.

Sure would help things a bit!

Aw Gee,
Just when I waz going to sing his songs for free. In My million dollar studio with my million dollar voice. Well, there goes another opportunity.

And I was going to let him pay me with lessons on how to make friends and influence people. Durn!

Hi,
I an trying to promote a young alternative rock band from Edison N.J. The name od the band is "Render Me Useless". I have been a Jazz musician for many years in Philadelphia and I believe these young people to have something goin'on. Thete is a didgitally mastered CD in my possession which can be marketed for it is finished. I welcome all interested parties to contact me here or at my website the-whitetiger.com and call my toll free number for information. It will be in your best interest aesthetically.

Brian ...I know a lot of people over at Warner Bros..
The music company has nothing whatever to do with what the rest of the company/other branches, does or how it does biz...
Many indie films have done this very thing ...If it is a deal, it is just distribution.How it is made ,they dont really care . ...
Many indie film makers take advantage of writers ,saying, we will use your song in our movie , but we are not going to pay you anything,when it plays on tv you will make some proformace money .( no you wont) or not more than a buck fifty).and just think of all the exposure you will be getting, read as in none, cuz no one will notice...
This type of conduct is done by a lot of the films made for tv , a lot of the films that comeout of Canada , made for tv, do this type of thing.But this is why indie films can be made , they do not pay anyone.Thats great for the film maker ,it is his career...But it aint yours ..think about it.
This is nothing new at all ...
All it is is a chance for folks here to be educated about how this works.

I cant tell you how many writers I know who have done this kind of thing, and not one ever made a dime.And they did it for free...their phone is not ringing off the hook.

But first read this guys post again ...He doesnt have a deal yet!He will maybe have one in 90 days or less...uhh huh..

He has 90 days, he sez...to get the film ready, and then they will make a decision...UHHHH I dont think so...

He says the film is done,yet he doesnt like the songs or whatever that are already in it. So he can afford to go back in and edit out the songs, and put in new ones?...Uhhhh... not, does not work like that.

He does not yet have a deal..He is acting like they have a deal, just pie in the sky.There all kinds of indie film makers here like this, running all over town.

I speak on a regular basis to film students at the many film schools and colleges here in the L.A. area, on music in film and TV..
Even folks who have been in the biz for years fail to understand how music works in film, from the business end.
From the creative end , dont even get me started about all the BAD choices that are made in a lot of films...Some are good ,but the bad is in the lead...

Dude..

http://songconsultant.com

That depends on who is calling him

Hi, Dude,

Thanks for sharing your experience and expert advice. I am sure that you just saved some unsuspecting artists from getting scammed.

Emily

P.S. When I was 22, I knew this woman who was a casting director for the TV movie "Lois Gibbs and the Love Canal", directed by Glenn Jordan, starring Marsha Mason. She offered me the opportunity to get a film credit by teaching some kids a song that would be in the film, then coaching them on the set. I was very naive, and felt pretty special that I was offered the choice between a screen credit OR the chance to get my SAG card. ( With NO pay.) I opted for the screen credit. I VERY stupidly didn't ask for a written contract, and spent 14 hours working on the set. I got NOTHING.

I got no screen credit, SAG card or pay. Obviously, I didn't know much about the business....At that time in my life, I didn't have a mentor/consultant like you - it sure would have helped!!!!!

Dude,

I am sure you've seen plenty of bad ideas and false promises. But do they ALSO often come with a 5K price tag on top of it? That's the most brazen scam I have seen in a while for this type of thing. Sure, zillions of would be director/producers with crap projects con people into working for free. This guy claims he paid the entire crew. So if anything is true in what he said, he is ONLY scamming the singer of these particular songs and not only is he asking them to do it without pay (in hopes of future earnings) he's crossed the line into all out SCAM by asking them to pay him.

I still wonder if anyone in the WB film division would be interested that this guy is using their name to scam people? Perhaps not. And heck, it's entirely possible, as you stated, that this deal either never or will never actually exist in the first place.

James Oddo was successful in one thing. He's placed a clear cut warning about ever doing business with him on the net for all to see via Google. Maybe that will scare him under a rock for a while with the other bugs.

Brian

IT WAS HARDER TO DETECT THIS ONE FOR ME THOUGH - HE DIDN'T TYPE ALL IN CAPS AND HIS SPELLING WAS PERTY GOOD

You're right Brian. This guy is just spreading his toxin everywhere, huh?

http://classifieds.myspace.com/inde...dID=4463865&catID=9&subCatID=114

http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35329&pid=391768&st=0&#entry391768

No one should pay to be on someone elses label. Period.

Hey Gang ...Ever hear of Joe Esterhause?...Big time screenwriter ...google him..Many credits ...legit, right?

He took a full page ad in one of the trades asking for song writers to let him use their songs in his movie for nothing.

Yep...and I'll betcha some chumps jumped at the "chance"

The point is to get the movie made ,period.Get the movie made ,makes no difference who you trample on...Im an artist, the rest of you are morons...Im the the genius your are the idiot , type of thinking that these people do to justify the end , no matter the means.

Like I mentioned above...I will betcha a wornout pocket knife, that no one at Warners could give a crap at all. It is about money for them.And it isnt even Warners ,it is a "partner",Polychrome, who they are ? I dont know and havent bothered to look them up...But Warneres has dozens of these deals at any given time.Until someone sues them they wont pay any attention.

I still have not been invited to lunch...Im waiting , my website tells them how to get a hold of me...ahem...And Im hungry.

Dude...

http://songconsultant.com

But even Joe didn't ask those songwriters to PAY him.. I think if given a choice of paying James Oddo or Joe Esterhaus, I'd likely at least pick the one who has done something. But then again, I generally make it a rule of thumb never to work with a dirt bag in the fist place. = )

Brian