JPF Home Page Forums Hangin' with Harriet

Yep. As soon as John is done, I'll be back. Not sure for how long because things are really getting busier than usual and they're usually pretty busy. I've missed you guys! Thanks for stopping by this one, everyone.

Wow! Harriet, I can't believe you're posting those chapters from your book. That is SO generous!! Thank you!! I just have one request. Is there any way to post each chapter on a new thread? That way the chapters will be easier to find. I don't know about the rest of you but I may read something two or three times to extract the full meaning out it because I read quickly, digest something and I always end up coming back later to "get" other points. Call me dim, but mostly because I can't sit still for any length of time.

When you click on any topic, you are taken to the last place you read Tricia, unless you have read them all.
I like it the way it is.
Cpopy and paste them to your puter seems the way that would work best for the individual.
Or even better, Buy the book.
Graham

The first song I ever wrote was a result of learning that my best friend from junior high and high school had tragically passed away. I wouldn't have even started writing songs if it wasn't for that tragic event. Somehow, I had to release all the emotions that I had bottled up, and it all came out in that song.

I choose to think that she had a hand in all of it; that she was guiding me somehow.

A lot of people say that it is my best song, and I don't disagree, because it was the most honest song I ever wrote. I wasn't trying to impress anyone; I wasn't trying to do anything other than pour out my feelings.

I don't think I'll ever top that song, and I don't think I would ever want to.

Yeah.. Graham is right. BUY the book!

= )

Brian

Well, I guess we'll stop this thread now since I'm coming back to critique after John Braheny does his. Or maybe I'll leave you with one more chapter. Here's one that's sort of connected to the one you just read:

2
If You're Doing It for the Money,
You May Not Make Any

Sometimes I have to pinch myself and remind myself it isn't Kansas anymore-or wherever I came from way, way back, when I formed the belief that everyone shot straight from the hip, or at least straight.

Last week, one of my Advanced Class students said something which has bothered me ever since. It's not that I haven't heard it before-in fact, I've heard it much too often-but usually from business executives, and jaded ones at that.

The whole thing started when I commented that a number of songs on the radio recently have sounded quite a lot like another song called, "Old Time Rock & Roll." The student defended them with the statement that they were making money from these clones. I suggested that integrity might enter the picture somewhere (he was a new student, so I was more tactful than I might have been on his 4th week). To this he responded with the line in question, "Integrity doesn't pay the bills."

First of all, I can understand the attention a person might have on paying the bills, especially in this economy. But I feel it's such an incredibly dangerous viewpoint for an artist to have, I wanted to address it-or undress it-publicly. The student who said it is talented and bright, and I don't think he actually embraces this as a heartfelt philosophy. I think it was an offhanded remark. But since he said it, here goes.

Check out the definition of "integrity." It's not just honesty or incorruptibility. It's also "wholeness," "soundness." It's in the writer's nature to put things together to form a whole-and that's the main meaning of "integrate." I've observed many writers-colleagues, mentors, students-some hugely successful, some total unknowns. But one thing I've noticed is that the ones who are doing it because they love it and have something to express are generally the ones being successful at it. The ones who got into it to make money usually never did. It's sort of like a guy who takes a girl out just to go to bed with her and can't figure out why he never gets to.

It's not that you're getting punished for being mercenary, or anything else so linearly Puritan. It's simply that you're coming from the wrong place and that's where your attention will be-on the money, not on the music. You'll make decisions based on that; your passion will be centered somewhere away from the song. It's like trying to get turned on by the person you married for money. You've created your own prison.

Now somewhere, some songwriter is reading this who has made a lot of money with his/her art and he/you may be smiling. But think back to when you first started writing. Weren't you doing it for the love of the process, the heat of the communication, the thrill of the music? And when your attention is on writing "something that will sell," do you like what you come up with as well as you do when you write because you really want to say something or get that musical idea on tape?

I have heard my producer, Nik Venet, say that even though McDonald's may be the biggest restaurant chain, one would not ask to meet and compliment the chef there. Similarly, Citizen Kane never made its investment back, whereas Love Story made millions. But which one do we remember?

In my own experience, songs I wrote from that burning desire to communicate were always my most successful copyrights. And here I'm talking about songwriting-not assignment writing for films or records, because that's a whole different subject. They are commissioned anyway. I'm referring to those songs that are an extension of who you are as an artist-that you would perform yourself, proudly, if you sing.

"Integrity doesn't pay the bills" may be true. But neither does chasing trends, writing at the radio, ripping off other songs, and focusing on writing something that will make a lot of money. To make a lot of money, it has to sell a lot or be played a lot or both. That means lots of people have to hear it and buy it. That means it has to move people when they hear it. Now, if you think you're good enough to write something that's going to move all those people, while you've got your attention and your passion over there on your bank statement, be my guest. Give it a try. But your craft had better be unbelievably good to pull that one off. And between the time you start and the time your craft is THAT good, there's a lot of dues paying and songwriting you'll have to do. So you might just as well do it for the love of it. Maybe you'll even discover in the process that integrity has fewer bills to pay.

You are truly the voice of reason Harriet. Nice to hang out with you---we gain great insight...

You are right on the money, and I enjoyed the story also, as I just found this thread!!!

Herbie

Hi Harriet... I think if the Love of writing isn't there...
as the primary reason to write..it will show over time.....
Glad you're coming back....

Best to you this evenin.....
Kaley

This reminds me of when I read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography about 25 years ago. It was the most fascinating book I'd ever read - until I got to the half way point and it suddenly became (and stayed) boring.

I couldn't figure it out. How could that possible happen?

Then I read later that he was just keeping a journal. Someone saw it and said he ought to write it up for publication. That event corresponded to the halfway point in the book....

Lotta truth in your chapter, Harriet....

Scott

I couldn't agree more with this chapter. Not only is integrity vital to the song writing process, it is also important in the business end as well. For a while, people who lack integrity may appear to prosper but eventually a lack of integrity will backfire. Maintaining a high level of integrity in both areas is essential. Well … at least I think it is.

I think integrity in our personal lives should mirror itself in our professional lives and vice versa. I think in any kind of business, including the business of music, we should strive to maintain integrity in all of our dealings.

HiDee Mz Harriet!

I'll agree that Personal Integrety gives a Writer or Artist a certain Cachet one can be proud of, yet the Music Business Itself is not exactly a Model of Integrity.. My just-arrived Free Issue of MUSIC Connection Mag has page after page of Music ATTORNEYS to help the Unwary.

The PBS Bio on Ahmed Ertigan, Atlantic Records Founder..sorta glossed over the Chunks he Originally screwed his Original R&B Artists out of, early in their Careers...while he built his (Admirable) Empire up.

Back in the Mid-80's, I was befriended & Co-wrote a song with a Gap Band Member...who got screwed out of most ALL of his Royalties as a #1 Hit-Writer, despite hiring an Attorney. At that Time he mentioned "Total Experience Studios"..one of L.A.'s largest, was "A front for the Black Mafia to hide their Drug Profits."

Myself, I kinda Blanch every time I visit Nashville & see the Giant BMI Mausoleum there...it kinda affects me visually the same way a Giant Gothic Cathedral does..i.e. SOMEBODY started out with a Great Bit of Intregrity, & as the Loot Rolled In, just MAYBE the Founders Lost Sight of The Grand Scheme of WHO the Loot was SUPPOSED to Benefit.

I also fail to see ANY Integtrity in the way Pop Music makes the Airwaves..for the last maybe 30-40 YEARS.

But..my Vent having been Completed, yep, I've maintained MY integrity for 2 1/2 Decades..but don't even yet have much (Financially) to show for it. I STILL write for The Fun Of It, the Mental Challenge of it, and the "Let's See What Comes NEXT" part of it that I find continually Fascinating.

All the Best,
Stan

Everyone needs to keep his integrity, but an artist needs to keep his integrity even more than a businessman because his art comes from a place of truth. Once he forgets who he is, he's lost. I suppose it depends upon your definition of "success," also. Did you hear the one about the attorney who was approached by the devil who told him he'd make the attorney the most successful attorney in the entire music business. All he wanted in return was his soul, his wife and children's souls and the souls of all their unborn children. The attorney replied,"What's the catch?"

LOL!

HI Harriet!

JUST got an Onkyo Cassette Recorder at the Local Flea Mkt today...& as soon as I can figger out how to hook a Mike into 2 RCA jacks I'll get a-crackin' on Lesson One! (Sorry it's Taken So Long to get to This Point...)

Thanks for Your Patience!
Big Hugs,
Stan

I couldn't agree with you more about the careless word being enough to stomp the creative genius sometimes.

I'd like to add though, that it can also be an action that can have the same effect.

My logic is this: When I was younger and married, my ex-wife would throw a fit (non-verbal) every time I worked on a riff in a song or a line in some lyric I had been working on. Well, after awhile it finally beat me down and now 5 years later I am just starting to come back out of the shell and starting to write again.

I also agree immensely with the write what is not being done. I think that hits the nail right on the head perfectly.

Love this chapter. I may be the slowest snail in the race, and maybe shouldn't admit this, but it never OCCURRED to me when I wrote my first few songs that there *WAS* any money to be had in songwriting.

Now while you all laugh...

I've spent 10 years as a published author, *hoping* there might be money in it. I didn't want a lot really... I didn't expect a lot, unless I got lucky enough to land a national, huge contract a la J.K. Rowling. I don't doubt my ability or my stories... I just know it's really, really hard to be discovered.

Along that journey, my 1st publisher went bankrupt, shorting me out of half my teeny-tiny earned royalties... and landing me in a situation that wound up costing me much more money than I ever dreamed it would, in buying my own books back. (Long, convoluted story I won't go into here.) For my second book, my friends and I formed a co-op, which was wonderful and cost much less money than my first go-round. The co-op is flourishing now, but has stopped publishing books. For my third book, I don't know yet how I'll fund it, or whether yet another publisher will want to take on something mid-series (the third is to be part #3 of a trilogy). I have fans write me every week asking where that third book is. I really want to finish it, and am working on it, and looking into creative solutions for printing it. But do I have any hope at this point of earning back more than the cost of printing? Not really. My experience has shown otherwise. It's a labor of love. A lot disappointing, and discouraging, but I'm still going, because I love my story (and so do other people, from the letters I get), and I want to share it with the people who want to read it.

At this point, I look at anything in the artistic business and say MONEY?? you think I can make MONEY?? and laugh out loud.

So far, it looks like the shift to music has the potential to COST me even more money than the book world has. Joy! But will I let that risk put me off? No. It's in my blood, and demanding to be let out. Whether I am any good at it or not, whether I ever get back a dime I invest in it or not. I've learned that the "big money" IS actually out there... but at what cost to my soul? To my family? Hmmm. I'm willing to work terribly hard--yes. But I'm not willing to sacrifice the success of my family, the love of my children and spouse, or other immaterial but so-much-more-important things to get my hands on that elusive "big money."

So there you have it.

Is that integrity?
Actually, I don't think I'd know how to sell out if someone printed detailed directions. LOL. Not that I'd want to, anyway... sigh...

Linda

This forum offers a lot to think about. I find I am at one of those redefining moments in my life, and this information offers quite a bit to consider.

Glad it was helpful Rex!

Brian

Hey Brian

i think this was a truly unique idea. I am sorry to see it has expired is there anychance we might bring it back again? We have an industry professional here in the way of Bill Rocker who knows a lot about the music industry as he's worked in nashville for years. I certainly wouldn't voulenteer him but I think he would do very well at this and might accept if offered. At any rate I think this is an idea worthy of a revisit.
Derek

Derek,

We'll probably bring it back eventually. We've just been focused on other things of late.

Brian

hello heidi. this is my first foray into this area. i've only just posted a few song lyrics so i'm not really up to speed on everything that is going on. i've been critiqued before and brutally. when i'm paying for this service i expect good advice without tearing a strip off me. i'm sometimes reluctant to post because the songs have special meaning to me. i understand that perhaps the reader doesn't understand this so i can accept the criticism without too much damage to my pride and my desire to write better songs. i believe professionals need to heed your advice. i definitely will never go back to that "so called" professional but at the same time do like to hear someones thoughts but, in moderation. i truly like to read other artists compositions but i rarely give off handed comments that would offend them. i like to keep it fairly short and tell them that they have a great idea which probably could use a little smoothing out in places. mary chapin carpenter said that sometimes you feel that it is a great idea but it just isn't coming together quite right so just wait for the song. it may take a while but just let it go until the moment of inspiration arrives. i've been helped by some of the members and i truly appreciate that feedback. sometimes other eyes are what is needed to make it right just as long as it isn't a complete rewrite. anyway....this is how i see it. thanks for all that you are doing for the jpfolk.

Gary,

I think you may have meant Harriet?

Brian

Hey, all of us "H" names look alike! LOL!
Can't wait to see Harriet here again.


Heidi

Hi Harriet

Well I am at the beginning. I am a new song writer, I have only ever written one song, "Don't push my button" Mp3 Forum, I am currently working on three others.

One thing that I would like to say is, if you are going to critic a song, don't just listen to a song once, as from my own experiences, some times, I don't catch the lyrics, or the story behind the song, I have to listen to it many times over, to get it,and that's what really annoys me, engaging mouth before you get it. But you know what, I do it myself, I go back and read my posts, as I suffer with post traumatic stress, and I go all over the place sometimes. I would hate to hurt someone else's feelings, I work hard to stay positive.

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

G'day all.
Just passing through and although I can't stop long enough to check them out, I just want to say it is great to see this section fired up again.
Go Guys.
Good ob you Harriet.
Ya a doll.
Graham

I really enjoyed your article. I've sure had my share of falling pray to brutal criticisms. The only thing one can do, is to dust themselves off and try again if they are serious about their goals in life, though. The worst kind of critiquing is when you get bashed with all kinds of foul words, with no insight as to just how you can step up your skills. At that point, it becomes more of a personal attack.

Graham
Hey where youve been? You miss the 4 episode of mentor critiquing.

Lynman

Harriet, that makes great sense. I agree completely. Thanks for your guidance. It is very helpful.

Tom

I think this is great. i've enjoyed so far this site. I personally think if you give a negitive give a postive. we are all hear working to get better. Honesty is a good thing. even if it is sometimes negative. we all come from different back ground a raising and experiences where our writting might come from. so it can be personal. It's like wearing your heart on the sleve but as a critic and a writer we should be perfesional. I find as i search the sight i learn both not only how and ideas to write better but be a better critic. thanks for everything -laura

We are restarting this outstanding program!

JPF

I was traipsing around the forums and found this one. I love it. I've been studying with Harriet for a few years and it is THE best thing I've done for my songwriting and my music career. 

The first song I wrote In Harriet's class is called "Too Far Away" and it's a memorial to a friend who died in the World Trade Center. It was one of the hardest sings I've written and with Harriet's guidance, it turned out beautifully.

I sent it to the wife of my friend who had died. At the time of 911, she was pregnant with their second child. She delivered 9 days after the tragedy. I got a letter from her saying how thoughtful it was for me to write the song for Rod, how I'd captured his essence, and that the song would be a legacy for his children when they were old enough to understand. I cherish her letter. 

Songwriting is such a magical and wonderful thing. I had no idea when I wrote that song, that it would be heard around the world and used in 911 commemorative ceremonies, but that's secondary to the letter from my friend's wife. I played the song for someone in LA who didn't personally know anyone who died on 911 who burst into tears and said that the song really made it real for her.  We have a lot of power in our hands, to teach, to heal, to make people laugh and have them not feel alone. I'm glad that I'm a songwriter. 

Thanks, Harriet, for all your brilliant steps nd suggestions. My songwriting has go up to the next level and the next level and the next. You're the Phil Jackson of songwriting teachers.

Maybe we can get Harriet to post another article... :-)

You give really good insight on how to listen (to someone else's
writing)and how to be listened to (to your own writing). In some
sense, we all have unique views (I believe) because we are unique!!!! To express them is another matter!!!! I struggle with this alot of days!!!!!