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#508446 - 05/31/07 02:24 AM Plagarism or borrowing?  
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Rick Heenan Offline
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I recently had someone tell me that they take a song then change the words and call it their own. I personally consider this practise to be plagarism at least. If its not a parody then your stealing someone else's melody. I've even read on some songwriter sites that suggest this method to hone your skills on. I realize that there are only so many notes and that it has all been done before, I feel that an honest effort should be made to make your song original. Any thoughts??

#508451 - 05/31/07 02:57 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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I make an effort to have *every* song be original. That is presumably hard to do in country music, where there are presumably a finite number of melodies (but I haven't found the limit yet). If I decide that something I'm doing is too close to something that's already been done, either by somebody else or (more often) by me, I will tweak it until it is different. I have not found that impossible to do yet.

Joe

#508453 - 05/31/07 03:09 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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Iggy Offline
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Hey Rick, this has been going on probably since the first song was ever written. Louie Louie evolved into Cherrie Cherrie, which was “borrowed” to write “Wild Thing” which then reversed the chord pattern for “I’m a Believer”. Grand Funks “Foot Stompin Music” is actually Give me Some Lovin and Boston’s “More Than a Feeling” is “Walk away Renee”. The Beach Boys and countless other groups “borrowed” a lot of their music from Chuck Berry. And a BEATLE actually changed He’s So Fine to My Sweet Lord. Recently Jet had a hit with “Look What You’ve Done” which is the exact chord pattern as “Let It Be”

An old story about one successful songwriter who meets his idol in a coffee shop. He admits to his idol that all the songs he wrote were “stolen / borrowed” from the songs his idol wrote. His idol patted him on the back and said you’re not stealing from me, you’re stealing from the guy I stole from.”

Right or wrong who knows. If it makes money and you can sleep at night, so be it. To thy on self be true.

Oh, for the record, I don't do this. Probably why I haven't hit the big time.



#508462 - 05/31/07 03:58 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Hummingbird Offline
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Originally Posted by Rick Heenan
I recently had someone tell me that they take a song then change the words and call it their own. I personally consider this practise to be plagarism at least. If its not a parody then your stealing someone else's melody. I've even read on some songwriter sites that suggest this method to hone your skills on. I realize that there are only so many notes and that it has all been done before, I feel that an honest effort should be made to make your song original. Any thoughts??


There IS a songwriting exercise that goes like this --

- every day for a week, pick a hot song you know and like, write new lyrics to the existing melody, following the same form and structure

-- then take your new lyrics and write new music for them

it's fine to write lyrics to existing melodies as an exercise, but anyone using a melody that someone else wrote & recording the song with their lyrics, without permission/licencing, is infringing on the copyright of that songwriter. If they publish the song, they could be liable for a fine of $10,000 per infringement, plus court costs.


Vikki Flawith: Songwriter/Composer, Singer/Voice Teacher

12Feb10- *NEW BLOG: "BE YOUR OWN GURU ;)"

MY STORY & MY MUSIC: http://www.vikkiflawith.com
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#508466 - 05/31/07 04:20 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Hummingbird]  
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I am so influenced, from even a Spanish song I recently heard. I liked the beat, so I came in the house and got at my piano, and started some chords in that beat,,,and the chords were very different,,,,from THAT song,,,,but as I kept playing it, I realized I was playing a standard Spanish chord arrangement. So, I put some goofy lyrics to it to not be like anything. And I bet I heard something to have me do even that! I don't purposely rob half a song to do the other half not like it. But I bet if I go through all my songs, I would find bits and pieces of many songs.

One thing leads to another. But to take full outright? Might as well be in a cover band.

John
I have one unique song,,,and no one can hear it,,,for it will no longer be unique. But it's so unlike all other songs,,,,,I forgot it!


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
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#508475 - 05/31/07 06:04 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Amateurs borrow, professionals steal! I can't deny that I've lifted a melody or chord progression or two from pre-existing songs intentionally or not. Really, everything that can be done musically, HAS been done, so there's no way NOT to be derivative, even if you try to avoid it.


bc
#508521 - 05/31/07 11:42 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Originally Posted by Rick Heenan
I recently had someone tell me that they take a song then change the words and call it their own. I personally consider this practise to be plagarism at least. If its not a parody then your stealing someone else's melody. I've even read on some songwriter sites that suggest this method to hone your skills on. I realize that there are only so many notes and that it has all been done before, I feel that an honest effort should be made to make your song original. Any thoughts??


I think the term for this is called "Repainting a song",Where you change it around enough to make it "original" but really you've just used another colour of paint to create the same song.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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#508523 - 05/31/07 11:56 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Bob hit the nail on the head. Just about everything has been done already many times over. What is produced now and has been for many years is just a variation of the theme either lyrically or musically.
Hey Everett nowadays its painting by numbers. VERY SELDOM DO YOU GET AN ORIGINAL MASTERPIECE.

#508525 - 05/31/07 11:58 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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niteshift Offline
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Fiji
Hey Rick,

No such thing as an origional song. Just all variations on a theme I reckon. Music just evolves, sometimes blatently, sometimes not.

cheers, niteshift

#508528 - 05/31/07 12:09 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: niteshift]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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What I hate is when people get fed up with the same ol' or run out of ideas they go way back and copy some old style as if it is a brand new idea. If you are going to raid the archives at least change the thing to try and make it different or unique.

#508532 - 05/31/07 12:28 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Adam Gentry Offline
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Yes, everyone is influenced by the songs they hear, and that's no problem. Blatantly taking someone else's melody or lyrics as your own isn't right, though; those are protected by copyright. Other aspects such as chords and rhythms are fair game, I think, but taking something really unique, say a distinctive bass riff, could land you in court.



====================
**GentryTunes! by Adam Gentry**
Original Christian and classical music
http://www.myspace.com/gentrytunes
#508638 - 05/31/07 05:42 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Adam Gentry]  
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Samuel Harris Offline
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There is a good songwriter in Texas who took the song "I've been everywhere" and rewrote the lyrics to refer to only Texas towns and then did a great recording of it. He didn't try to copyright it even though his lyrics are better than the original. He did a great recording of it in his home studio, got it on the radio, sold 10s of thousands of copies of it paying the mandatory 8 cents or whatever for copyright and as he put it, "I put two kids through college with that song".

I guess everyone here already knows this but anyone can record anyone elses song as long as they pay the copyright royalties. Now the interesting question is: what if I wanted to record "I've been every where in Texas". Would I just pay the original copyright owner or would I have to pay for the new lyric too.

This is on my mind because I just wrote my first parody called, "Mommas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies"

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=506995&page=1#Post506995


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
#508675 - 05/31/07 08:45 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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You mean I can't use the bass-line to "Super Freak"? Doh!


bc
#508681 - 05/31/07 09:29 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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ben willis Offline
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Isn't "America" and "God Save The King"(or is it queen) the same melody? Woody Guthrie stole the melody for "This Land Is Your Land" and many others.

BC, Have you seen the video of Bruce Hornsby and Ricky Skaggs singing "Super Freak" bluegrass style? I am not kidding. I fell out of my chair when I saw it. By the way, MC Hammer did use that bass line in "You Can't Touch This".

#508691 - 05/31/07 10:22 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: ben willis]  
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Hi Ben
You are correct about God Save the Queen.
Re Super Freak blue grass style. I agree my sides were sore. If you want a similar thing there is a guy calling himself Hayseed Dixie (a play on AC/DC) who does similar things with old rock songs. He did a whole AC/DC album country style and similar treatment of Queen, Zeppelin and many others. Some of it hilarious some just great music.

#508693 - 05/31/07 10:32 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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ben willis Offline
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Big Jim, The bluegrass band Hot Rise has an alter ego known as Red Knuckles and the Trailblazers. They play songs like Inna gadda da vidda, and the Monkees theme ala western swing.

#508707 - 05/31/07 11:13 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: ben willis]  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
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Just throwing new words to an existing melody without the approval of the melody owner is stealing plain and simple.
Using an existing song as a foundation to mbuild your own words and melody on, is par for the course, and quite acceptable.
Trick is to do it so the song it was built on doesn't show through the cracks.
Throwing a new melody to existing words in the same manner is also naughty if it is done while claiming to be the poet in the piece as well.
Progression, basslines etc, seem to be pretty open slather, but once again, what comes out has to not sound what it was built on to work.
The Norah Jones song, and i know she didn't write it, Don't Know Why, is a piece of music I find very hard to get the progression in it to sound anything other than the original for some reason.
Even stripping it down to bass and drums, I still hear the original in it no matter how I bend everything else.
It is good fun to do, and a great way to find new melodies and even as something to suggest a lyric line.
I do it all the time, and have rarely been caled out as being too close to anything else.
Graham

#508724 - 05/31/07 11:52 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Graham Henderson (D)]  
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A few years ago I had an idea for a song but could swear the song had already been written. I asked my Publisher friend if he had ever heard such a song. He said he had not so I worked the song out. I'm sure there are those that can't really write a good new song so write songs close to what is already out there. Most of the time these songs are passed on by those seeking songs. But if you keep writing your songs will get better so don't give up.


Ray E. Strode
#508740 - 06/01/07 12:49 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Originally Posted by Rick Heenan
I recently had someone tell me that they take a song then change the words and call it their own. I personally consider this practise to be plagarism at least. If its not a parody then your stealing someone else's melody. I've even read on some songwriter sites that suggest this method to hone your skills on. I realize that there are only so many notes and that it has all been done before, I feel that an honest effort should be made to make your song original. Any thoughts??


I agree with your assessment, Rick.
You're an honest guy...hang on to that. Most everything else is just bullshit.

GJ

#508810 - 06/01/07 08:11 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: GJShades]  
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Thanks Ben will checkout Red Knuckles. I like quirky things like that. Kinda built up a wee collection over the years. You aint lived unless you have heard Barbie Girl in Japanese OR A "RAVE" VERSION OF SCOTLAND THE BRAVE. I also have my pride of place Bollywood album of some classic TV themes done Bhangra style it is a hoot.

#508865 - 06/01/07 02:38 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Adam Gentry Offline
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Yes, compulsory licenses are acceptable. I was talking about taking songs without compensating the writers.

I'm not sure, but it would seem to make sense on the "I've Been Everywhere in Texas" song to pay the original author of the melody and the second-version lyricist half of the license each. Just my guess...

Adam



====================
**GentryTunes! by Adam Gentry**
Original Christian and classical music
http://www.myspace.com/gentrytunes
#508887 - 06/01/07 04:02 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Adam Gentry]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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The best one ever was Pat Boone's "In a Metal Mood"in which he covered heavy metal tunes. Including Ozzy's "Crazy Train" that became the theme song for "The Osbournes" My fave was his cover of "Holy Diver" by Ronnie James Dio!


bc
#508890 - 06/01/07 04:16 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Is the William Shatner album still avialible. Love that "Lucy in the skys" it gets me trippin'.

#509005 - 06/02/07 12:05 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: ben willis]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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I had a teacher at music school who made the following statement: Everyone borrows or steals in music. Just don't do all your looting from one store.

He meant that as you learn it's a good idea to incorporate the things you like into your playing, but don't copy it all from one player. For if you copy everything from one player you'll sound like a clone and unoriginal. Whereas if you borrow/steal from numerous sources you end up sounding original.

I don't doubt that was some of the best advice I ever got in a music class. And it's probably why I have the sound and variety that I'm known for.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#509086 - 06/02/07 09:25 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Hi Ben Re Bill Shatner
This send up song got to number one in mid eighties By The Firm.
It is still played at kids discos/partys and they have a special dance to it. It is a hoot.

Star Trekkin' across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekkin' across the universe,
Only going forward 'cause we can't find reverse.

Lt. Uhura, report.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim.

Analysis, Mr. Spock.
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.


There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim.

Star Trekkin' across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekkin' across the universe,
Only going forward, still can't find reverse.

Medical update, Dr. McCoy.
It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead.


It's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.

There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim.

Starship Captain, James T. Kirk:
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men.

It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead.

Well, it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.

There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Jim.

Star Trekkin' across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekkin' across the universe,
Only going forward, and things are getting worse!

Engineer, Mr. Scott:
Ye cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics;
ye cannot cahnge the laws of physics, laws of physics, Jim.

Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill; Scotty, beam me up!

It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead.

Well, it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.

There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, better calm down!

Ye cannot change the script Jim.
Och, #!*& Jimmy.

It's worse than that, it's physics, Jim.

Bridge to engine room, warp factor 9.

Och, if I give it any more she'll blow, Cap'n!

Star Trekkin' across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekkin' across the universe,
Only going forward 'cause we can't find reverse.

Star Trekkin' across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekkin' across the universe,
Only going forward, still can't find reverse.




#509304 - 06/03/07 05:13 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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cincinnati oh usa
Cool! {Scotty] I'm givin' her all she's got captain.. she can't take no more!!!!!


bc
#509347 - 06/03/07 12:31 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Jim_L Offline
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Jim_L  Offline
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I heard a Styx tune way back and a chord caught my ear so I immediately ran to the keyboard and started to 'find that feeling' it gave me. A few weeks later I finished the tune and played it for my daughter and she said it was the same tune as some German band tune she got off the 'net.

I didn't believe her so she grabbed her laptop and we played both tunes together and damn if it wasn't the same as if i just put different words to it! Same tempo, chord changes - almost everything! So my weeks of hard original work seemed for naught... I felt my muse was a traitor.


The Tavern & The Storyteller - A Musical Comedy
http://home.comcast.net/~castle.walls/tavern/index.html
#509367 - 06/03/07 02:49 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jim_L]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Park City, UT, USA
Well Jim, it goes the other way too...

I had a friend come to me once and ask if I had written a song for a band. I said, no not that I'm aware of why? So they pulled out a brand new CD and played me something that was a current radio hit. I nearly hit the floor. The guitar riff was nearly note for note, rhythm for rhythm the same as mine, in the same key. It practically sounded sampled from my CD that had come out several years prior.

It was uncanny. It was also possible that they could have heard my song as they recorded it in an area of town that I lived it. Did they copy it? Who knows. It sure made them a lot of money, but then they also had a major label behind them. They really didn't last past that, oh well.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#509369 - 06/03/07 03:12 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Jim_L Offline
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Jim_L  Offline
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Well JW, it seems that no matter what happened - you seemed to have penned a good thing! You should contact that label & see if they want anymore of that stuff they seemed to love so well!
If they went for the 'first' tune, they should want to talk to ya!

-Jim


The Tavern & The Storyteller - A Musical Comedy
http://home.comcast.net/~castle.walls/tavern/index.html
#509380 - 06/03/07 03:45 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jim_L]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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That was a few years ago. I'm not concerned with getting a record deal at this time. I have something else in the works that is more advantageous to me. So I'll stick with it to see what happens.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#509386 - 06/03/07 04:09 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: May 2007
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biskitboy Offline
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biskitboy  Offline
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Charleston, South Carolina
All my music is pretty derivative. I'm aware of the influences. But being influenced by and copying are two different things entirely. You can use the same chord structure a million times.

Izzy has it right. My limited knowlege of music theory began by coming home and knocking out the 145 pattern of Louie Louie. Then I became aware of a few passing chords in between. That's pretty much where I'm stuck, but pop music was built on those songs. But each time a new twist was discovered.

Look at all the great (yes I said great) DGA songs. It's amazing how many different melodies you can hang on a DGA structure. But the key is you HAVE to come up with that different melody. New lyrics over an existing melody is plagerism pure and simple and would not hold up in court.


Talking about music is like dancing about architechture-Steve Martin
#509389 - 06/03/07 04:12 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: biskitboy]  
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biskitboy Offline
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Charleston, South Carolina
I'll repeat a story I've posted before.

I read somewhere (a Beatles interview, I think) that Paul McCartney ran around humming Yesterday to everyone he met and asked them if they had heard it before, because it was swimming around in his head, but it sounded so familiar to him, he didn't trust that it was original.


Talking about music is like dancing about architechture-Steve Martin
#509399 - 06/03/07 05:05 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: biskitboy]  
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Posts: 11,806
Bobbie Gallup (D) Offline
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Bobbie Gallup (D)  Offline
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Nashville, TN, USA
Just yesterday, on the AOL news I saw a clip that said Paris Hilton was being hauled into court for plagiarizing a song by another group. Her song was called something like The Stars Are Blind...the other group's song was called Kingston Town. You could watch both of the videos from YouTube. The musical intros and initial stuff were precisely the same. Couldn't stand to watch the Paris thing all the way through but some of you might want to check it out. Guess when you've got the money she has...you don't worry about going to court for plagiarism. You can just buy your way out of a lawsuit. Plus..you know what they say..all publicity is good publicity. Even her slap-on-the-wrist jail sentence is keeping her in the public eye. Go figure.

IMO..we are supposed to be creative people. Just because we "can" borrw/use other folk's work, why would anyone WANT to? For me, the only reason I do this is the thrill of coming up with something totally fresh...something that makes someone else go.."now why didn't I think of that?"

Bobbie

#509488 - 06/04/07 12:19 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Bobbie Gallup (D)]  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
Graham Henderson (D)  Offline

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Esperance. West Australia
I guess I am lucky as I steal from everywhere and still sound out of this world.
Make that like nothing on earth.
Graham

#509497 - 06/04/07 12:41 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: biskitboy]  
Joined: Dec 2001
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by biskitboy
All my music is pretty derivative. I'm aware of the influences. But being influenced by and copying are two different things entirely. You can use the same chord structure a million times.

Izzy has it right. My limited knowlege of music theory began by coming home and knocking out the 145 pattern of Louie Louie. Then I became aware of a few passing chords in between. That's pretty much where I'm stuck, but pop music was built on those songs. But each time a new twist was discovered.

Look at all the great (yes I said great) DGA songs. It's amazing how many different melodies you can hang on a DGA structure. But the key is you HAVE to come up with that different melody. New lyrics over an existing melody is plagerism pure and simple and would not hold up in court.


Bis...

DGA is 1-4-5.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#565152 - 12/05/07 08:28 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
For most multi-hit writers, it seems it's only plagiarism if:

1: You get caught
2: You get sued
3: In court, they can prove they didn't steal it from someone else in the first place!

= )


Brian Austin Whitney
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#569879 - 12/23/07 05:07 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Emily Sanders Offline
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Emily Sanders  Offline
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Santa Monica, CA
There are specific legal definitions of stealing and plagarism regarding lyrics and music.
The term "Used with Permission" was written for a reason!

The more that someone steals too much of a musical or lryrical idea, the more uncreative they are, IMO. I am constantly amazed at the derivative quality of much of today's music.

I agree that writers use bits and pieces of other writer's creative ideas, but like Bobbie said...the challenge is to say something is a new and original way.

Emily




#569930 - 12/23/07 10:22 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Emily Sanders]  
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Bill Robinson Offline
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Curmudgeonville, Tn
I think all language uses bits and pieces of what has been said before. Music is a language, IMHO.
Take a look at the 35 or so posts that have been written here on this subject. They all have something in common, all are talking about the same thing, but none are alike. Each post says something about plagiarism but says it in a new way. The cadence of the words is different, if you read them aloud the tone (or melody) of the words will be different yet all are talking about the same thing.

Now if I took Em's post and went line by line and reworded each line to say the same and did it with the same "melody I would expect she could identify what I had done.
That would be Plagiarism IMHO. However the other posts here talking about the same thing but in a completely new way is, I suppose, a derivative.

Why anyone would want to take another person's song and reword it and call it their own is beyond me. Where is the satisfaction in that? What kind of self esteem would that person have?


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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#569943 - 12/24/07 12:36 AM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
Graham Henderson (D)  Offline

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Esperance. West Australia
Saying something in a new way can bre quite gratifying actually Bill.
Quite often a good idea not stated well is often the statring point for lyrics, poems, and prose I ammsure.
It is a weoll used trick in journaism.
Digest the news and write it better.
I often do a cover song which i don't like one line in and so, change it when i do the song down the pub.
Nobody seems to notice, and I am comfortable sing9ing it.
I also like the line so used it in one of my oewn songs.
Nobody seems to notice it is the same line inb both songs either.
Graham

#570041 - 12/24/07 03:59 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Ande Rasmussen Offline
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Ande Rasmussen  Offline
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Martindale, TX, USA
don't work that way
they wrote a parody
original writers have claim

you could write a parody,
create new lyrics
then change the music and melody

Ande


Originally Posted by Rick Heenan
I recently had someone tell me that they take a song then change the words and call it their own. I personally consider this practise to be plagarism at least. If its not a parody then your stealing someone else's melody. I've even read on some songwriter sites that suggest this method to hone your skills on. I realize that there are only so many notes and that it has all been done before, I feel that an honest effort should be made to make your song original. Any thoughts??


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#570056 - 12/24/07 05:50 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Ande Rasmussen]  
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I've been reading about the case of George Harrison and "My Sweet Lord" being ripped from "He's So Fine." After reading several summaries of the findings, it's interesting to read that a lot of the decision hinged on a single grace note that was present in both melodies.

You have to wonder what would have happened if Harrison left out the grace note. Would he have been cleared?

Just because a song resembles another song doesn't automatically mean infringement. It's actually pretty complex, and involves both objective and subjective criteria, which is why courts get involved smile


#570381 - 12/26/07 06:51 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: scottandrew]  
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Gary E. Andrews Offline
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Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
I critiqued a lyric once as being rather bland, a vague rhyme without much story to engage the listener. The writer then pointed out it was a syllable for syllable copy of a song I like. The writer felt that made it equal to the original song. I didn't. It did not have the storyline and lyrical engagement of the original. After knowing the melody I found it sang quite well, but still didn't interest me as a song.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#570399 - 12/26/07 08:48 PM Re: Plagarism or borrowing? [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
I can name many many songs that have similar lyrics or similar tunes or a lick or riff or solo or chord structure or whatever.....
So what.... It happens all the time even on these boards. If you go into a supermarket there are hundreds of similar products or copied product ideas, brand names, packaging styles, logos, etc etc..... that is marketing... and this is the music business little difference. Everybody copies sometimes subconsciously and we do not even realise it. Just do not get caught.


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