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#492863 - 04/14/07 06:24 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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Tammy, a lot of song contests say that. The statistics say otherwise. I do not think any home-recorded song has ever won a prize in one of these things. The judges in these things are all professionals (I think), and will gravitate to professionally produced stuff, no matter what the rules say. (I had a couple of judges admit it once.)

Accordingly, if I'm entering a contest I want to win, what I'll send them is a professionally produced product, done with a real band in a real studio. I will do it inexpensively, of course (I am waydam cheap, after all), but I will do it. I want to give them what they want to hear (whether they're admitting that's what they want to hear or not).

Giving the American Idol contest-runners the benefit of the doubt (which may not be the correct thing to do), they may very well be serious about wanting to attract the home-recording or computer-recording guy or gal in the interest of attracting the widest possible range of talent. I think it's just not going to work out that way, because (in part) the people doing the promoting are not the same people as the ones doing the judging.

The Artist Formerly Known as Moonless Joe

#492866 - 04/14/07 06:52 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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Oh, just an aside (going back to the original subject). I did play my American Idol entry, "Rotten Candy," with the Friday Night Group last night before a live audience, telling 'em why I entered it and introducing it as "the song that's *about to be* rejected by American Idol." Did sound good with a full band (with 2 electric guitars, accordion, harmonica and saw all playing lead)--but definitely (my opinion) too Dottie West and not enough Britney Spears for A.I.'s tastes. (Well, I was channeling Dottie West when I wrote the song.)

It is too bad, I think. It really might help if these contestant kids were confronted with something a bit out of the mainstream, and told "Okay, dude/dudette--let's see how good you really are. What can you do with *this*?" Alas, though 'twould be an interesting exercise, I do not think it will ever happen.

Joe

#492949 - 04/15/07 12:06 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Not everyone is out to get you, Tammy.
Talent will show. Computer software is unbelievably close to studio quality. It's a win-win situation. Well, maybe not if you went to Nashville and spent alot of money.


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#492978 - 04/15/07 01:20 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Bass2x]  
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Well I guess I don't have that kind of software. Can't wait to hear some songs that are done like that. I am not worried that someone is out to get me. Actually I feel pretty confident about my entry. (In a humble way) I have high hopes that I have a chance. I just know from being a judge before that it is a painstaking process and I wanted to make sure I gave everyone a fair shot at being heard as long as I could listen to the song before moving on to the next. I was hoping God would help me make some right decisions. Some were harder than others.

Tammy

www.TammyEdwards.com

Last edited by TAMERA64; 04/15/07 01:21 AM.
#493179 - 04/15/07 07:03 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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O'k...I just re-read the contestant agreement.

I've been pondering the meaning of AGAINST in the phrase "an advance to you of $10,000 AGAINST a royalty to you of 75% at source worldwide." I am thinking this is an advance, like any other advance, and must be recouped. Right? So...if your song would be chosen as one of the top 20, held for ten years, but never recorded and therefore never generated any royalties, would you have to give the $10,000 back? The upside I guess is you could invest the 10k, and earn about $400-500/year interest, which is not bad, but you probably shouldn't go out and blow the whole wad until the song is a hit!

Any thoughts on this??






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#493262 - 04/15/07 11:33 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Kester]  
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No.. you don't have to give back advances (unless there's some other language there but I doubt it). But you do have to pay it back before ever making money beyond that amount again.

If they use the song as the winning song, it will be moot. The cash will roll in. If it's one of the non used songs, then that 10K may well be the only thing you ever make off of it unless they release or use it for something else. About the only risk I can see here is if you wanted to release it yourself at some point. With them owning publishing, I don't know exactly who or how it could be used without their permission.

Anyone know? If they don't release it, could YOU release it at some point first with them owning publishing? I am curious.

Brian


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#493315 - 04/16/07 02:33 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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One could, but there will probably be a legal letter in their mail if it gets any professional wings. Depending on the publisher, maybe a cease and desist "behind the scenes" order could be demanded. I bet releasing unowned songs have been done many times. Just won't hear most of them, if any.

John


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#493391 - 04/16/07 01:15 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Larry Read Offline
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Boy lots of questions here
What if the song is already released? By Yourself would you still have to pay them to use your own song?


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#493424 - 04/16/07 03:44 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Larry Read]  
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Hey Larry! Two cups this morning,,,,so I could type like I'm at the piano on some long, rockin song.

As I understand things, the term "own" will have two meanings, with one being what the writer will refer to when correctly saying they wrote the song, but wrongly saying it in a way that they own the song, if under contract with a publisher, who is the actual owner of the copyright to that song. That means anyone, the writer included, has always had to ask for the right to copy and release their written song, since the writer did sign over the "right to copy" to the publisher. Nothing new there at all. Old as the piano forte!

It can be a good thing to have to ask permission to use your "own" written song. That means you have a deal with a publisher. The thing would be how good the publisher is, and if they are active in your written song. Songs can be tied up for time of the contract with little or no activity for them. But they are there, in case a certain artist wants to record it, after being presented the song by the publishers, acting as your insider of the music business. That comes with a price, like anything else in business. Maybe the price pays off. Maybe it doesn't. But it doesn't cost money upfront to be signed. They will actually pay you just to have the song be in their catalogue! (Ownership of the copyright fee paid to you in anticipated royalties). So, for the A.I. deal, I see it as the first ten grand of 75% of the "writer" royalties from sales, (which the entrants grant 25% of the writers royalties), will be kept by the publisher. You already have the ten g's even before one sale, remember! After the earnings of 75% of the writer's royalties passes ten grand, then the writer/writers will get their share from then on.

But yeah,,,if you find a great source to later record your top 20 song on A.I., just start the usual permission process with the publisher holding the copyright. McCartney couldn't even do anything with "Yesterday" without permission, as it was owned by Michael Jackson! He didn't OWN Yesterday! If he can not own THAT,,,I can deal with not owing any song I have!



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#493725 - 04/17/07 02:11 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Larry Read Offline
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John,
Thanks for the heads up. I guess you answered all my questions except one.
If the Artist signs the agreement with the publisher does this effect an already released album with the song thats already out there? Does the Artist then have to pay them for future sales of an existing alblum thats already earning? In other words the song is already produced and out there when he signs the agreement to allowing them to publish it.

Larry


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#493736 - 04/17/07 03:29 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Larry Read]  
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It is my understanding that they won't accept a song that is already "under contract" with another publisher. If it is your own release, (not signed with a label or publisher for that song), with you as the publisher, then there's "no contract" with yourself. Just actions as if there is! You're actually an Indie artist, and self-publishing. Once you sign the song over to them, (19 Entertainment), or any publisher, I believe they can control, or pull the song from any sources, (shelfs, online music sites, whatever).

I would check with a music attorney to make sure I hit it on the head though. But from all the reading of publications on the subject, that is how I think it works.

Good luck!


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#493780 - 04/17/07 06:18 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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Martina McBride's song is obviously inspired from the
http://www.paradoxicalcommandments.com/

Originally Posted by Samuel (Joe) Harris
I keep thinking how much I like the song, "You've had a bad day" and how much they played it last season. That must have put some serious money in the songwriter's pocket. Next week the guest "mentor" will be Martina McBride. She has a song out now that would be perfect for the American Idol theme called "Anyway"
Now that is the caliber of song it is going to take to win this contest. Even without these lyrics, the melody and the way she sings it would sell the phonebook.

You can spend your whole life buildin'
Something from nothin
One storm could come and blow it all away
Build it anyway

You could chase a dream
That seems so out of reach
And you know it might not ever come your way
Dream it anyway

God is great but sometimes life aint good
And when I pray
It doesn't always turn out like i think it should
But I do it anyway
I do it anyway

This worlds gone crazy
And it's hard to believe
That tomorrow will be better than today
Believe it anyway

You can love someone with all you heart
For all the right reasons
And in a moment they can choose to walk away
love em anyway

God is great but sometimes life aint good
And when I pray
It doesn't always turn out like i think it should
But I do it anyway
Yeah I do it anyway

You can pour your soul out singin'
A song you believe in
That tomorrow they'll forget you ever sang
Sing it anyway
Yeah sing it anyway

I sing
I dream
I love anyway


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#493781 - 04/17/07 06:20 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: lbeaird]  
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Ande Rasmussen Offline
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i think a lot of pro writers will enter because there are many pro writers who don't have deals

ande

Originally Posted by lbeaird
Folks,

Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

For someone interested in writing songs professionally, I can think of NO downside to entering this contest!

Have you considered this? This is possibly the one chance to ever compete for a major recording without going up against professional writers and publishers. The way I understand it is that writers that are currently under contract with a publisher CANNOT enter because the rights to their songs (and future songs while they're under contract) are already the property of their publisher.

And I think the entry fee is amazingly low. $10 is nothing compared to the usual cost of doing business as a songwriter. That won't even buy a good set of guitar strings.

Also, if you lose, you've only lost ONE song. You can always write others. Unless a major label artist is already considering recording that particular song, there is absolutely no reason to withhold a song that you think might have a chance. Once again, it's not your career; it's ONE song.

The language concerning the company ownership of the song seems to be an issue on this forum, but that's exactly what happens when a song is published: the publisher owns the copyright.

As far as the producers of the show raking in the money: They invented the show, it's highly successful, and they should be raking it in. It's a business. They're just doing their job well (and getting paid well).

In a business seminar I attended a couple years ago, it was stated that one of the failures of most small businesses (and that's what professional writing is: a business) is the failure to implement. Meaning this: to have a great idea or a shot at something and not act on it is no different than never having the idea or the shot at it in the first place.

American Idol seems to be a gold mine for anyone coming even remotely close to winning. It has spawned numerous careers of singers even if they weren't the last one standing in the contest. The way I see it, the winning song is going to be amazingly successful. There's the TV money, the radio airplay money, the international sales, the recognition as a winner, etc. ....

I just don't see how there's anything to lose for someone trying to make it as a successful songwriter.

Good luck to all who enter!

Larry Beaird
Beaird Music Group, Inc.


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#493796 - 04/17/07 07:14 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Ande Rasmussen]  
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So I may be clueless here but are songwriters who have hits with major artist eligable to enter this? Or is an indie thing? I haven't found that yet. They make it REAL hard to read the rules. I even had to send in my entry through another friends network (comcast) because my aol and msn would not take my info and let me enter. It was rejecting it. Their site even said that that may happen. I was so frustrated. Anyone else have that problem? Thank God my friend sent it on his. Should I be so lucky to even be one of the 20 (in my dreams) they would email him. He would have to forward it to me. So I am trusting him to let me know if he hears anything. What a mess! All because I couldn't send my song in from my own server. UGH!

Tammy

Last edited by TAMERA64; 04/17/07 07:16 PM.
#494100 - 04/18/07 04:39 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Mike Borok Offline
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The big question for me is this:

Suppose (as is the most likely case) my entry is not picked as one of the 20 finalists. Then I will want to submit it to other places... but is there anything in the contract that will either discourage someone from picking up the song, or is it possible that, after my song starts making money for someone else, 19 Entertainment will claim that it has some rights to the song?

Wording in the contestant agreement seems contradictory, or vague. For instance, there's one place where they say that no use will be made of the song, will just be saved. However, in 3.2 they talk about having rights to copy it etc, and that one sentence is not qualified by the "for the purposes of the competition" clause.

Also, just to be paranoid, when they claim to define the phrase "for the purposes of the competition", they actually wrote "composition", not "competition", so technically the phrase is never defined.

Does anyone have an answer re what rights they appear to retain for non-finalists?

Mike Borok
New Middle Class


Mike Borok
New Middle Class
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#494156 - 04/18/07 10:06 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Mike Borok]  
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Yep their lawyers. My guess is that they will come after anybody who breaches the vague contract. If they think that the song will make money after they have rejected it you bet they will claim to own it as per the contract you signed by entering the song.

#494447 - 04/19/07 09:17 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Larry Read Offline
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Hi John,
Thanks again for all the advice. I am not under a publishing contract or signed to any label. I do however have the song on my CD which is for sale from many different sources.

The way I understand what you wrote is that they can force me to yank the item off the sales end. Even though it's already out there or will they just take the publishers portion of the pie from future sales from my CD.

I also understand that if you make it to the top 20 a new contract will be entered into with them.


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#494599 - 04/20/07 08:37 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Larry Read]  
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Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest
Could someone please tell me what verification, if any, you received once you had uploaded your songs and information. I was registered and verified registration, but in uploading my info at a late hour, the entry portal closed just as I was entering payment information and I don't know if my entry was received.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

#494600 - 04/20/07 09:24 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Carly1122]  
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I have read the full rules and would like to point out a few things that some of you may not have understood or did not read.

1.As I stated in an earlier post the Rules are under English law. I think there could be a problem there holding a comp in USA under English rules and law.

2. Only one song is permitted per applicant. Too bad for those of you who have multiple entries.

3. The song must be original and unpublished. Too bad for those who have dug up a song from one of your old albums.

4. All rights of the song are owned by Mr S.C & co. They can do what they like with all the entries. In effect you have sold them the song and given them ten bucks for the priviledge. You will only be entitled to record/publish with their approval.

#494602 - 04/20/07 09:40 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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There seems to be conflicting opinions as to whether any rights are given up if your song isn't chosen in the Top 20. Can you provide where it says "All Entries" give them publishing rights? We didn't find it in the contest rules, but did find something like that on their site rules which are very different.

Brian


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#494636 - 04/20/07 12:17 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Hi Brian

http://songwriter.americanidol.com/Registration.aspx

The above link is the one I viewed. It says that they have the right to record, perform etc. etc. etc.

It also says that entries will only be accepted from residents of USA. Why? There must be a reason.

Personally I think it is a scam. If it was a legit and proper comp why the 10$. Why don't they charge 10$ for their American Idol contestants singing auditions.
Any national TV songwriting comp worth it's salt would not charge an entry fee and would not post rules under a different countries legislation (that smells). YOU SAY THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF RULES. ALARM BELLS ARE RINGING. The songs should also still be the property of the entrant unless used that also does not seem to be the case.. As I said before it seems crazy to pay 10$ to give your song away. Knowing the way this company work I am sure that they do not have contestants best interests at heart but are only interested in scamming money. You may be interested to know that one of the British panelists/judges entrepeneur Louis Walsh (founder of Boyzone and Westlife) quit the prog, or was fired recently depending on who you believe because he was concerned about some of the financial and legal matters and dealings relating to the show. Also the show's presenter, I forget her name quit/was fired under a cloud at the same time for similar reasons.
Contestants best of luck but beware. JIM

#494684 - 04/20/07 02:12 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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I think people are getting slightly paranoid with the rules. There were two sets of rules, one set for the songwriting contest, and another for their website forums. They have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

The only rights that are mentioned in the contest rules have to do with those people whom made the Top 20, and the one out of those twenty that wins the whole thing. If you made the Top 20, your song is in a 10 year hold whether or not you win the contest. If you don't make the Top 20, then you are free to do whatever you want with your song as you still all rights to it. They DO say that they hold the right to copy the song and store it on their servers, but not publish it or distribute it etc...

So people really have little if nothing to worry about, unless you make the Top 20. And believe me, I think they have plans in the works to do something with the other 19 "loosing" songs. Like maybe having Idol winners record the songs on a Songwriter's Album or something later in the year. If that happens, then more of the Top 20 will get deals on their songs too. Here's hoping....


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#494686 - 04/20/07 02:17 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Larry Read Offline
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I agree with Brian there is conflicting info.

One that I observed is in one area it stated you may only enter once.

In another area your told to enter as many songs as you like.


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#494712 - 04/20/07 03:30 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Larry Read]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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yeah, the biggest conflict glaring at us was the line about "you may only enter one song" in the contest rules, but on the website it had a link saying to "enter another song". just goes to show how rushed this whole thing was...to what effect or if it makes any difference remains to be seen.


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#494800 - 04/20/07 05:59 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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philp4u Offline
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There is only one song per entry fee allowed. You could have entered as many songs as you like at $10 per entry. Your song can be used in any way by them for the purpose of the contest only. The company is based in England therefore the laws that govern in this situation are England law. People are reading too much into these contest rules. There is nothing decieving within the rules of the contest. A published song is a song already under the terms of a standard publishing agreement which usually means that the rights no longer belong to the songwriter. Collusion between Songwriters is not talking about your song or letting someone hear your song. Rather it is basically conspiring to defraud the contest by misrepresentating yourself or your song. I am only a songwriter not a lawyer. But if you are going to write songs for the Music Business you have to know what you're getting into and who to listen to. The biggest decision will be for those whose songs are selected for the top 20. Should they accept a $10,000 royalty and take the chance that their song if not the winner will in fact then be owned by the company and maybe not be used? Or should they sign and take the royalty advance and trust their chances that their song will succeed. I would say that if you write a lot of good songs then sign if you are offered the deal. It is most likely that they will use the remaining songs for other Idols in the top 12.


Phil
#494834 - 04/20/07 07:25 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: philp4u]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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There is no doubt about it the rules are confusing to say the least. With so many contradictions and unclear meanings open to different interpretations it should be easy to win a law suit if your song is being hijacked. The bit that I do not like is why only USA permanent residents can enter for a British company run promo. If your song is not succesful I doubt very much if they would notice. I think most if not all of the songs won't even be properly looked at or critiqued. THEY WOULD NEVER FIND OUT IF THEY HAVE YOUR SONG OR NOT AS MOST WILL GO IN THE BIN.

#494849 - 04/20/07 08:12 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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19 Entertainment is a British company and can make whatever contracts or deals it likes within legal limits, no matter what country the contest is in.

Also, the biggest thing to remember is that this is AMERICAN Idol, not Euro Idol or Russian Idol, or Chinese Idol, or World Idol etc... The contest is for Americans so obviously they HAVE TO restrict it to USA citizens only.


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#494853 - 04/20/07 08:31 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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I understand your point Jeff but I think you MISSED mine.
Following the threads it would appear that some JPF folk who are Canadians and S Americans plus other nations have entered so I was pointing this out to them. I obviously know that 19 Entertainment aka Simon Cowell & co. is British as I am. We had to suffer X factor and its spawn before you suffered A.I. as a spinoff. My point is. Why is he not using USA law for an American TV production made in USA for USA contestants only. DOES HE NOW OWN THE USA TV COMPANIES AS WELL? God help you.

#494895 - 04/20/07 11:47 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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well, there is a difference between America (the USA) and the Americas (the whole continent including Canada, USA, and South America).

in any case, if i got a deal with any record company outside of the USA, do you think they would grant me a deal based on where i live? hardly...so of course they are using British laws for this contest because the company offering it is, as you well know, in the UK.

also, the kind of deal they offered is offered here in the USA as well, just slightly different wording etc...

i don't find anything fishy about it or think they are out to disenfranchise us in anyway, but i do think they rushed it and did not give it the right treatment seeing as how this was the first songwriting contest they have held through AI.

i guess i am just not convinced of any wrong-doing or harmful intentions on the part of 19 Entertainment....

btw, i am of scottish descent, i need to visit the old country one of these days....


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#495111 - 04/21/07 06:11 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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Andrew Owiti Offline
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By entering the song you do NOT give up any rights in your song. You do give AI the right to "store" the song indefinitely. You also give AI the right to copy, record, publically perform etc... the song for purposes of the competition. This is simply to protect them from getting sued after the fact by people basically looking for a quick settlement. And all the rights you essentially license to them are reasonable (copy, record, publically perform) given what they need to do to administer the competition.

The $10 entry fee is merely to create a barrier to entry for people who only intend to fool around. Now we can quibble over whther $10 is enough of a deterrent but I don't think it is unreasonable to say that it is. Also, the $10 probably is to cover the cost of administering the competition.

I think this is on the up and up.

Now if you are selected to be in the top 20 then you will have to sign a new agreement the terms of which will be different than what was required to merely enter the competition. And if you actually get to be in that position, then you have already won.

I could find nothing in the agreement that says the competition would be governed by UK law. And limiting the competition to US citizens and US residents is fair because this is a US show and can you imagine how many more entries they would receive and how hard it would be to administer if this were a worldwide competition? Logistically it would be a nightmare... it probably already is.


#495120 - 04/21/07 06:57 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Andrew Owiti]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Andrew,

I think you have it right. 10 bucks is a reasonable deterrant and let's face it, they would have gotten almost the same number of entries if they had charged 30 bucks. I was pleasantly surprised they only charged $10. We've actually considered charging $10 dollars per album or CD full of songs entered into our awards. I am not sure what impact that would have on entry numbers, but based on last awards we would have brought in 260,000 dollars if we had charged 10 bucks. CD Baby decided they wouldn't do it if we charged that fee and logistically it's too much of a mess to receive all those entries 1 at a time for us so we did it free and passed on a quarter million dollars. For 2008 we're mulling over options. In our case it would have been a charge of about .80 cents a song.

Brian


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#495145 - 04/21/07 08:26 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Mike Borok Offline
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I emailed my contract questions to 19 entertainment (at the email address they provided), and they replied as follows:

We do not retain any rights to any songs other than the publishing for the final winner.

Mike Borok
New Middle Class
newmiddleclass.com


Mike Borok
New Middle Class
newmiddleclass.com
#495183 - 04/21/07 11:02 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Mike Borok]  
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I am looking for anyone who can tell me what sort of confirmation you received once you had uploaded your songs and other info to the AI site. I had a problem with entering my payment information, website indicated technical difficulties, then site expired. It was 12pm pacific time so I don't know if I got in. Any confirmation received from anyone else who entered?

Please let me know. I am very anxious to know if my song is even being considered.

#495184 - 04/21/07 11:03 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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I am looking for anyone who can tell me what sort of confirmation you received once you had uploaded your songs and other info to the AI site. I had a problem with entering my payment information, website indicated technical difficulties, then site expired. It was 12pm pacific time so I don't know if I got in. Any confirmation received from anyone else who entered?

Please let me know. I am very anxious to know if my song is even being considered.

#495189 - 04/21/07 11:46 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Carly1122]  
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Re the ten bucks as a deterrant. I do not think so. Ten multiplied by a lot equals a lot more. plenty people enter the AI singing comp just to fool around so I do not see any difference. I don't even think they will listen to a lot of the entries they haven't the time or the manpower. I think they will scan only a few seconds of some songs until they have enough stuff to make up a shortlist. That is where the luck will come in so do not be disapointed if your song does not make it. The chances are it won't even have been listened to. I see nothing in the rules that guarantees that all songs will be listened to. I would at least expect that for 10$.

#495495 - 04/23/07 02:25 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Scary thought Big Jim, but you are probably right. Many songs may not get listened to. Mine may be one of them so it truly is in the hands of God. At the very least I am out 10 bucks. Hey that is better than some scratch tickets or trips to the casino I have made. I will take my chances. But you may be really right.

Have a great night!
Tammy

#495602 - 04/23/07 01:52 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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on www.spinme.com someone reported that they had written an email last week about the uploading problems to 19 Entertainment and they received a reply back. if it is true, they said 19E mentioned that the upload issue was something to do with Hotmail, and that they still received just over 25,000 songs by the close of the contest. seems like that number of songs is very reasonable and within the range of prediction based on the recent facts we know about the contest so far.


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#495615 - 04/23/07 02:24 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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25000 songs WOW. I did some number crunching and it would take one man working ceaselessly spending two minutes on each song allowing no time for breaks or sleeping/eating etc. over 34 days to work his way through them. I hope Simon has good headphones and a limitless supply of coffee. Even with an expert team operating ask yourself how many songs could you honestly sort through in a day and divide 25000 by that number. Now do you believe me most songs wont even get a listen.

#495619 - 04/23/07 02:32 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Joanne Lurgio Offline
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Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
25000 songs WOW. Now do you believe me most songs wont even get a listen.


Maybe it will, maybe it won't ... but I can assure you, if I had a song sitting at home and didn't take a chance and send it in ... you bet.. it DEFINITELY won't be heard!! No harm in taking a shot! If I sat and waited only for sure deals ... I'd get no where fast. You never know unless you try.

Joanne

#495690 - 04/23/07 06:30 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Joanne Lurgio]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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well, let's see what the numbers translate to....

if every song gets the full listen (up to a full 4 min fo all 25,000 songs), then that means 100,000 minutes to listen to all of them in total. that equals 1,667 hours, or just over 69 days to listen to all the songs if one person listened 24 hours a day non-stop. making another assumption that the songs were not listened to until the submissions were ended, that would mean 14 days to listen to every song. to get all 25,000 songs listened to in 14 days (336 hours) you would need 5 people to listen 24 hours a day, now if you only have people listening to the songs 8 hours a day (1/3rd the time) you would need 3 times more people, or ie you would need 15 people to listen 8 hours a day for 14 days to give each song a 4 min listen.

if we do another calculation that makes more sweeping assumptions, that 90% of the songs will be really bad and only get a 15 second listen and the other 10% get the full 4 min listen, then 22,500 would get a 15 sec listen and 2,500 would get a 4 min listen. the 90% group of songs (15 sec) would take 94 hours to listen to them, and the 10% group (4 min) would take 167 hours. So in total to listen to all of them it would take 261 hours in total. if we divide that by 8 hours a day, we get 33 days to listen to them if just one person was doing the listening. if two people listened, they each would need 16 days, that is pretty close to 2 weeks (14 days)...

if we have 3 people listening as described here, then it would take each one 11 days to listen to all 25,000 songs if they listened for 8 hours a day.

i am guessing they will have a small team of 3-5 people listening to the songs. because if they finish listening to all of them in 11 days, that means the last 3 days are used to contact the Top 20. this would make sense as they will probly start contacting people several days before May 2nd when the voting begins. this is way more than doable for sure. they don't need many people at all to listen to all the songs. and most likely they already started weeding out songs during the 2 week submission period, so maybe they only needed 2 people, but in any case, it makes sense that EVERY song could be listened to although you might not get a full 4 min listen.


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#495704 - 04/23/07 06:57 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Yeah.. if you haven't heard from them at least 4 days before the voting starts, don't hold your breath.. you won't learn YOU were picked when it gets to the Top 20.. they'll have to make sure the material is truly cleared before starting that.. so probably they are already contacting the Top 20 before the end of this week.

Brian


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#495708 - 04/23/07 07:15 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Jeff Cameron Offline
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the wait till we find out the top 20 is literally unbareable, seems like an eternity, doesn't it?


Jeff Cameron - Studio 310
#495725 - 04/23/07 08:06 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jeff Cameron]  
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I am honestly not waiting, for I know I could have just sent Brian the full twenty bucks, instead of ten to them and ten to JPF. That pisses me off more than anythin now, really. You'd think I'd have a clue by now. (Weak and scratchy cassette demo, no chorus, disjointed lyrics)...Yeah,,,,,I'm waiting,,,,I'm waiting to get my head examined!

Oh the things we think! We should think more of the right things to think, I know! Like how to properly compose a song for a specific project. How to properly demo it. Then throw it in there and wait!

I wait to grow the F up!
My grandkids will before me "I think"


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
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#495731 - 04/23/07 08:14 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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I wouldn't get down on yourself. I think if you'd had the ability to rework your song a bit, it has a nice melody that is memorable and sticks with you. It's probably not the best fit for the AI thing, but it will be in the top 20% of entries I bet. Only 1 out of 25,000 songs will win.... and I still think it's going to be an established writer or insider that wins.

Brian


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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#495742 - 04/23/07 08:28 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Andrew Owiti Offline
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Jeff, your calculations sound right to me.

I think some songs won't even get 15 seconds coz I listened to the 50 or so AI song entries listed here http://www.rpsd.com/moblog/ and there a few that I turned off 4 or 5 seconds into the song. I'm sure there'll be hundreds of songs that'll get that treatment.

#495752 - 04/23/07 08:51 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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I think an unseen benefit of this is that it got a lot of people to write NEW songs. Tammy for example hasn't been that productive over the last several years. But this got her out of her rut and back to writing and it was a great effort. AI was nearly a co-writer on it because they inspired her to write something that wouldn't have otherwise been written. I think everyone should challenge themselves to always write a new song for a contest before entering rather than entering the same few tired old songs. Art should be living and breathing.. new and fresh.. move on to the next thing.. express a new idea.. revisit an old emotion in a new way.. tell a new story..

If you do that, then contests like this are great things.

Brian


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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#495758 - 04/23/07 09:23 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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Here's my entry "Shining Star" - which can be heard at http://www.myspace.com/randaldewey . I tried to embrace the contest guidelines, and pen something simple, yet powerful, hooky, yet something that allows the vocalist to shine and show their chops. The process was weird for me, as I came up with something close to the hook immediately, then wrote what became the 2nd verse. The chorus/hook was modified by my collorators effectively, and then i struggled to come up with a first verse that would set up my chorus. The bridge came to me 2 days later in the shower. The ending wrote itself, and after 2 word smithing sessions, we layed down the tracks. My pianist over ruled my jazzy ending, which was left on the cutting room floor in favor of a traditonal I, V, IV, I finish.


#495762 - 04/23/07 09:32 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Andrew Owiti Offline
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Brian,

I agree totally. Entering this contest has opened my eyes to so many aspects of songwriting... e.g. how important it is to get your songs demo'd.

#495795 - 04/23/07 11:27 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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I think its great to have written new songs specifically for the contest...unfortunately I didn't have the time to get focused for that frown Too much other stuff going on for me.
Also, I have written songs for other people and also songs with specific themes for other artists. But the themes were never as obvious as what I perceive the A&R for this contest is looking for, such as 'realizing your dreams', etc etc.
So, I could only send what I had in my catalog. I posted this song on a different thread but here it is again http://www.sonicbids.com/epk/epk.asp?epk_id=3254 "You Made Me Feel Again" If anyone gets a chance to listen to it, here's my question: Is is too far off from the target to be considered? The lyrics are not directly about following your dreams, or winning--I wrote this song as a tribute to all the people that have been inspirational, nurturing and supportive to me in my life. The song has a reference to singing in the first verse.

Sandra

#495819 - 04/24/07 12:34 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Sandracarlucci]  
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philp4u Offline
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Sandra it's a great song. And I think that it's perfect for this contest. It's a haunting melody and memorable chorus. Good Luck with the contest and your career.


Phil
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