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#491624 - 04/10/07 03:34 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Kester Offline
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Yes, it does appear they are in a position to make some serious cash from the contest. And not that I am defending their crafty little money making tactics, but I do not think it is Simon Cowell who is the mastermind of the operation. A man by the name of Simon Fuller founded 19 Entertainment and produces American Idol - not Simon Cowell. I think maybe the roles of the two Simon's are often confused. Although I imagine Simon Cowell might get at least a little piece of every pie.

Here's a link to the 19 Entertainment wikipedia entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Entertainment

Interesting to note that Annie Lennox is one of their clients. That name certainly stands out from the rest!


please visit my music site at http://www.raucoustic.com
#491632 - 04/10/07 03:59 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Kester]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Yes Kester.you are right Simon Fuller is one of the "main Men" as well...but ol "crafty" pulls all the strings believe me..he is MD of BMG..and he was in negotiation to buy out Fuller at one time..Fuller took heart trouble and plays just i would say an exec role...he only fought off the bid ,,,simply because of American Idol...but Simon Cowell,moved in big time,and HE calls the shots...because of his "mr Nasty" reputation,and straight talking views..he is a love/hate character on this type of show..but it is all showbizz...but he is the "main" man on both sides of the pond regarding this show...what he says goes..even the voting public are influenced by him...how long it will last? is anyone's guess...but he is re-vamping the new series for the autumn on UK tv because of failing viewer figures..Simon Cowell thats is..not Fuller...he is never heard of...

#491658 - 04/10/07 05:25 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Kester Offline
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I'm sure you are right on about all that Terry. Now you've got me in the mood to write a snide sarcastic song about music moguls for the contest. LOL :-)

Still sitting on the fence...



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#491672 - 04/10/07 06:27 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Kester]  
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Iggy Offline
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Let’s see, right now, I’m pretty much an obscure songwriter with no real commercial track record. I have several songs currently with publishers who, I am quite sure, are using my CD’s for coasters. So I take a chance and send in a song. The Gods smile upon me and out of the tens of thousands of great songs, I win and end up making a lot of money.

I’m sorry what is the downside to this scenario?

Here is a link to my entry:

http://www.badbetsy.com/music-39.html

#491675 - 04/10/07 06:36 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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I'm sorry people----$10.00 is the price of ONE drink downtown. When the lotto gets big, people buy ten bucks worth without blinking. It seems pretty clear that you retain your income from the song (they get the publishing, but) it's something. The chance of one of our songs getting picked have to be one in a hundred thousand at least...I dunno, after all the info that we have now, my gut feeling is...WHAT THE HELL_______GO FOR IT.
You guys, anyway...I don't really have this kind of song.

And by the way, IMHO, "A moment like this" is an absolutely WONDERFUL song, great melody, and sung impeccably by Kelly Clarkson. By FAR the best song of the winners songs...That could be the reason for the contest, actually....they haven't gotten close to that one..
ALL YOU CYNICS----maybe it's just that simple...

"A moment like this, some people wait a lifetime"

If you have a song of this caliber you SHOULD go for it

Herbie


Herbie
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#491684 - 04/10/07 07:05 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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It's possible he'll get a million entries.. or 10 million.. it's hard to predict.. if the number is large, I am sure they'll be bragging about it. We went through 350,000 entries.. so a million wouldn't be shocking. Or, perhaps they'll only get 25,000... who knows.

Brian


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#491698 - 04/10/07 07:32 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Herbie Gaines]  
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BitWhys Offline
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Originally Posted by Herbie Gaines
I'm sorry people----$10.00 is the price of ONE drink downtown. When the lotto gets big, people buy ten bucks worth without blinking. It seems pretty clear that you retain your income from the song (they get the publishing, but) it's something. The chance of one of our songs getting picked have to be one in a hundred thousand at least...I dunno, after all the info that we have now, my gut feeling is...WHAT THE HELL_______GO FOR IT.
You guys, anyway...I don't really have this kind of song.

And by the way, IMHO, "A moment like this" is an absolutely WONDERFUL song, great melody, and sung impeccably by Kelly Clarkson. By FAR the best song of the winners songs...That could be the reason for the contest, actually....they haven't gotten close to that one..
ALL YOU CYNICS----maybe it's just that simple...

"A moment like this, some people wait a lifetime"

If you have a song of this caliber you SHOULD go for it

Herbie


I dunno. I always thought the second verse is kinda lame.

and these days where I live no one drinks downtown without a weapon.


"Riding the SNAFU wav(e)"
#491715 - 04/10/07 08:29 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BitWhys]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Boys...it is only my personal take on it.....i would'nt enter my mother-in-law...now there's a thought Cowell.......
MOTHER-IN-LAW IDOL.......THE MIND BOGGLES.....
but seriously...stick your song in with your ten bucks...and hope for the best..it will be very very interesting to see how this all pans out...it really is quite a clever idea...but for a wee bit of market research...do the "old grey whistle test "on your song...play it or sing it in a lift or elevator..and see how many folk come out whistling it at the bottom...All the best to all you entrants...Terry Moore..

#491721 - 04/10/07 08:46 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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BitWhys Offline
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Originally Posted by Terry Moore
...MOTHER-IN-LAW IDOL.......THE MIND BOGGLES...


thanks for coming out. now get your feet off the furniture and put your dishes in the sink on your way out.


"Riding the SNAFU wav(e)"
#491723 - 04/10/07 08:47 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BitWhys]  
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and use the compost jar when you scrape the plate

Last edited by BitWhys; 04/10/07 08:47 PM.

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#491728 - 04/10/07 09:05 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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argo Offline
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There are plenty of people who use this forum that have been taken by unscrupulous publishers, pluggers, song sharks, and others for a lot more than ten bucks. If they get a million entries chances are that all but a minuscule portion will be garbage. Herbie's likening this to a lottery is an apt description. But if you have a song you think is good how else are you going to get 19 Entertainment to hear it? Warner/Chappel is not knocking on your door, are they? When's the last time Faith Hill called you for a song. There are Simon Fullers and Simon Cowells in every business. If this doesn't net them a hit better than what they already have in the files then they won't do it again. If people don't want to spend 10 bucks on this then why are they spending hundreds of dollars on demos? Somebody from JPF has a song good enough for this. I bet every one of the JPF
award winners are submitting. This is a contest. Contests are a crap shoot at best because they are subject to a judge's opinion. Participate and you have a shot, however small. I'm going to submit one and when I don't win I'll forego a couple of dunkin donuts coffees to pay for it.
Rick

#491744 - 04/10/07 10:06 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: argo]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Argo.i get your point all contests are a one throw on the dice,and what has any Songwriter gotta lose except $10 bucks by entering....but you know i have just got a feelin in my bones the next song is already picked..SONY BMG..have plenty in-house writers,i cant for the life of me see how they are going to throw this guaranteed million seller out for public auction..BUT..what i do see is possibly,a compilation CD of the 20 best songs rejected,under the IDOL banner,and mybe just mybe other recording artists taking them on....or perhaps one of the runners up recording one of the contest songs..anything is possible..but time will tell......He aint called Slippery Simon for nothing...he sacked one of the long time judges..and the presenter of the UK version
after assuring them their jobs were safe...so if he can lie to them...he can lie to anybody....but iam sure he will come up with something for the Songwriters who enter the contest..
Good Luck with your song,....Terry Moore..




#491747 - 04/10/07 10:09 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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I'll say it again:

Anyone who feels $10 bucks is no big deal to throw away.. please visit our donations link. We can always do something GOOD for everyone with some financial support.

http://www.jpfolks.com/JPFStore/index.html

Brian


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#491821 - 04/11/07 03:15 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Given that MILLIONS watch the show and probably a million will enter at $10 a pop... hmmm add that up & you know who will really be making the money out of this.


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#491822 - 04/11/07 03:18 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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All a moot point, as I am not American.


Vikki Flawith: Songwriter/Composer, Singer/Voice Teacher

12Feb10- *NEW BLOG: "BE YOUR OWN GURU ;)"

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#491835 - 04/11/07 05:06 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Hummingbird]  
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Brian Dunkelman probably could use a couple of bucks too.

#491861 - 04/11/07 10:36 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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What's wrong with being crafty and making money?
Isn't that what's it's all about in a capitalistic society?


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#491879 - 04/11/07 12:06 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Bass2x]  
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Originally Posted by Bass2x
What's wrong with being crafty and making money?
Isn't that what's it's all about in a capitalistic society?


Everything. If it is at other less fortunate peoples expense. I hate con-men.

#491904 - 04/11/07 01:13 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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BitWhys Offline
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I'll say it again:

Anyone who feels $10 bucks is no big deal to throw away.. please visit our donations link. We can always do something GOOD for everyone with some financial support.

http://www.jpfolks.com/JPFStore/index.html

Brian


oh practical schmatical. if I weren't Canuk I'd be dropping a dime on the fantasy in a heartbeat. no offense, Brian, but it only takes an attitude to make it fun while you're waiting for the letdown and I've got the ego to ride that little number out in style.

Last edited by BitWhys; 04/11/07 01:13 PM.

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#491974 - 04/11/07 07:02 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Kester Offline
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So...has anyone officially determined if you are surrendering the rights to your song simply by entering??

Oh and to add to the confusion, here's a little inconsistency I noticed in the rules:

In the CONTESTANT AGREEMENT under eligibility requirements,it says: 4.Your Song ...."You may only enter one Song"

On the AI Website, in the section entitled "The Song's The Star" it says: "You can enter as many songs as you like"

What's up with that?

And I've also been thinking - even if they wanted to how are they going to ever have time to listen to all the submissions?? And in the same vein - when the season starts, how do they determine who gets to audition out of the tens of thousands who show up? There must be some kind of lottery or drawing names out of hat. And I would think they would probably do the same with the songs. I just don't see how time would allow for them to listen to every submission, even if "only" 10,000 or so entered.

Oh well...just more food for thought....


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#491979 - 04/11/07 07:26 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Kester]  
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Maybe it's only one song at time?


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#491987 - 04/11/07 07:44 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Jean Bullock]  
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Maybe the best of the best studio people here can make up the most hookish intro to be conceived, (an obvious later chorus hook), and end it right at the start of a killer first line with a great melody just starting to bloom!
A 15-20 second tease!

Ha!


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#492011 - 04/11/07 08:59 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Lynman Bacolor Offline
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Its all money making capitalizing on the weakness of songwriters in the dream of becoming big someday.

1. The 10 dollar
2. The voting
3. The very gray areas of royalty collection.

All you get is 10,000 dollars for the lucky 19.

Try to measure the odds guys. I rather donate the money to charity and keep my song in my pocket.

If your song become succesful in third world country because of the indian guy. They can pirate your songs instantly. You will not get certain share for the votes accumulated for your song. And there are no royalties from pirated music.

4 days to go for the deadline.

Goodluck to the aspirants

Lynman

#492030 - 04/11/07 09:52 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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argo Offline
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Lynman,
What you are saying is not true. "at source" royalties is a legal term used in English publishing law. If you read my above posts, you will see that the royalty agreement they are using is standard in Europe. 10,000 dollars is in my opinion a fair advance on royalties for an unknown writer. That is a thousand dollars a year for the length of the agreement if your song is NOT used. Every publisher I've had contact with wants my songs for free for 2 years. The SGA recommends that you get $250 per year from a publisher to hold your song beyond 1 year.
The cynics posting in this thread are complaining about the capitalism of the music industry, well yah, There are millions upon millions up for grabs in the entertainment industry. Of course, I'm in it only for the Art, yeah right. I love song writing. I love music. I love to eat. I love money. I love to dream. So if you are gonna dream, dream big time.
Brian's right, when I submit my 10 bucks to American Idol for my submission in the next couple days I'm also gonna donate 10 bucks to JPF. It's not a lot even for some one on a fixed income like me. So I challenge all the people who are submitting to the contest to do the same and everyone else for that matter.
Rick

#492031 - 04/11/07 09:52 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Wyman Lloyd Offline
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To no one in particular---Uh, guys, its ONE song. some may have had a lot better luck than myself with songs making $10,000, but mine have been a far cry from that. The contest is only open a short time. seems like if they were going after a huge number of entries that they might leave it "open" longer?
I'm kinda' like big Jim, I don't like Simon "or" American Idol.
I don't watch it. I may or may not enter. The chances are probably going to be extremely slim. A lot of "professional" writers would be interested , seems to me.
JMO
Wy

#492048 - 04/11/07 10:42 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Wyman Lloyd]  
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Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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Okay, I'll chime in again. I did enter. I sent 'em a song that *I* thought would be a good vehicle for their contestants, but I'm sure they want something more "poppy" and less country. I didn't have any regrets sending it to them, however. As I've said before, what I expect to get for my ten bucks is the ability to tell audiences, "This is the song that was rejected by American Idol." I may put "Rejected by American Idol!" on my "Joe is great" promotional brochures, too.

I like John Daubert's idea that anybody who gives ten bucks to American Idol ought to also give ten bucks to JPF. I'll do that. I consider that money well spent. You'd spend twenty bucks on most legitimate song contests anyway, right?

But as for being protective about the song, I don't care. I figure what I have to sell is my *ability* to write, not what I've written. What I've already written, I'll perform, and record, but I encourage other people to perform and record 'em, too, and hope it does 'em some good. All I ask is that they give me credit as the author, because I have a reputation I'm trying to create. "Steal" a song? Hey, go ahead--I'll only write more.

The Artist Formerly Known as Moonless Joe

#492107 - 04/12/07 02:04 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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argo Offline
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Tonight on American Idol it was announced that they have received 5000 submissions so far.
Rick

#492118 - 04/12/07 02:55 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: LindaK]  
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Nashville TN
Folks,

Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

For someone interested in writing songs professionally, I can think of NO downside to entering this contest!

Have you considered this? This is possibly the one chance to ever compete for a major recording without going up against professional writers and publishers. The way I understand it is that writers that are currently under contract with a publisher CANNOT enter because the rights to their songs (and future songs while they're under contract) are already the property of their publisher.

And I think the entry fee is amazingly low. $10 is nothing compared to the usual cost of doing business as a songwriter. That won't even buy a good set of guitar strings.

Also, if you lose, you've only lost ONE song. You can always write others. Unless a major label artist is already considering recording that particular song, there is absolutely no reason to withhold a song that you think might have a chance. Once again, it's not your career; it's ONE song.

The language concerning the company ownership of the song seems to be an issue on this forum, but that's exactly what happens when a song is published: the publisher owns the copyright.

As far as the producers of the show raking in the money: They invented the show, it's highly successful, and they should be raking it in. It's a business. They're just doing their job well (and getting paid well).

In a business seminar I attended a couple years ago, it was stated that one of the failures of most small businesses (and that's what professional writing is: a business) is the failure to implement. Meaning this: to have a great idea or a shot at something and not act on it is no different than never having the idea or the shot at it in the first place.

American Idol seems to be a gold mine for anyone coming even remotely close to winning. It has spawned numerous careers of singers even if they weren't the last one standing in the contest. The way I see it, the winning song is going to be amazingly successful. There's the TV money, the radio airplay money, the international sales, the recognition as a winner, etc. ....

I just don't see how there's anything to lose for someone trying to make it as a successful songwriter.

Good luck to all who enter!

Larry Beaird
Beaird Music Group, Inc.








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#492151 - 04/12/07 08:35 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: lbeaird]  
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Samuel Harris Offline
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I keep thinking how much I like the song, "You've had a bad day" and how much they played it last season. That must have put some serious money in the songwriter's pocket. Next week the guest "mentor" will be Martina McBride. She has a song out now that would be perfect for the American Idol theme called "Anyway"
Now that is the caliber of song it is going to take to win this contest. Even without these lyrics, the melody and the way she sings it would sell the phonebook.

You can spend your whole life buildin'
Something from nothin
One storm could come and blow it all away
Build it anyway

You could chase a dream
That seems so out of reach
And you know it might not ever come your way
Dream it anyway

God is great but sometimes life aint good
And when I pray
It doesn't always turn out like i think it should
But I do it anyway
I do it anyway

This worlds gone crazy
And it's hard to believe
That tomorrow will be better than today
Believe it anyway

You can love someone with all you heart
For all the right reasons
And in a moment they can choose to walk away
love em anyway

God is great but sometimes life aint good
And when I pray
It doesn't always turn out like i think it should
But I do it anyway
Yeah I do it anyway

You can pour your soul out singin'
A song you believe in
That tomorrow they'll forget you ever sang
Sing it anyway
Yeah sing it anyway

I sing
I dream
I love anyway


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
#492157 - 04/12/07 09:45 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Perhaps we could have our own comp of JPFs who have entered a AI song and also donated 10$ to JPF. HAVE OUR OWN JUDGES DECIDE BEST SONG. Prize money say 50% of donations. It might raise cash for JPF. OR AM I JUST BEING SILLY.

#492210 - 04/12/07 12:56 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Posts: 6,403
Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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Joe Wrabek (D)  Offline
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Garibaldi, OR USA
Big Jim, I think this is a great idea. Brian, can you set this up?

The Artist Formerly Known as Moonless Joe

#492226 - 04/12/07 02:26 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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Larry Read Offline
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Larry Read  Offline
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North County,San Diego,Ca
Hello all,

I have been following this thread since it started.

I look at this way. I am a songwriter. I write songs.

It just so happened I had already written a song years ago about my life as a performer and my quest called "Chasing Rainbows".

It's only one song. I did not hesitate to enter it since the theme matched what they were looking for like it a glove.

I entered it minutes after they first announced the contest.

I have submitted it to TAXI numerous times and ALL thier A&R guys raved how much loved the song but did forward it because it was as they say not Radio Ready. In this case it does not have to be.

A.I. will not use my arrangement they will do thier own. I look at it like this. If choosen it will give my career a real big boost!

I have many other songs that would all of the sudden become more valuable or at least easier to market. More places would tend to take my work and look at it more seriously.

I make $10,000 up front and more $ as time goes on.. so whats not to like here?

You can have all the greatest material in the world but if no one hears it what good is that? I personally say..take a chance
Todays the day... $10 lousy bucks for a shot at success? CHEAP!

It's a better risk than lotto as of last night they said thay had over 5,000 enteries.. 1 in 5,000 not bad odds.

I have an old saying 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing. Because if your music is not heard by anyone but you what good is that? Get a grip! I have a widget.. and it's a great widget... I know my widget may be the best... but if I don't even try to market it I will never know. It all comes down again to belive in yourself!

So what if they get thier hands on your song. Your still the writer.. you still get the kuddos... you still get the exposure
and that will allow you to get more songs sold.

If it happens I would be willing to bet my new CD sales will jump as well.. hmmmmm just keeps getting better huh?

I am not going to let anything stand in my way especially fear of the unknown or fear itself.

Just my 2 cents worth








your only a stranger once after that a new found friend
http://cdbaby.com/cd/larryread
http://www.LarryReadsMusic.com
Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist/Audio Engineer BMI &
Audio Engineering Society Member
#492230 - 04/12/07 02:35 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Larry Read]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Hi Larry
Good luck with your entry. I am sure, having listened to your stuff, that it is a great song. JIM

ps I hope you have also donated ten measly bucks to the JPF fund.

Cmon Brian lets hear what you have to say about all those ten bucks that should be coming JPFs way..

#492233 - 04/12/07 02:47 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18
lbeaird Offline
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lbeaird  Offline
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Nashville TN
Is there really a JPF Fund? What is this?

Larry

Beaird Music Group


Beaird Music Group, Inc. A Premier Nashville Recording Service
#492294 - 04/12/07 06:30 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: LindaK]  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kmaquilan2000 Offline
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kmaquilan2000  Offline
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New York City, NY, USA
I sent in a song too..."Where The Sidewalk Ends"...Brian, you'll be getting your $10 soon too. :-)

-Karen

#492295 - 04/12/07 06:35 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: kmaquilan2000]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,814
Herbie Gaines Offline
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Herbie Gaines  Offline
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Posts: 2,814
Chicago,IL, USA
Here's Jason Blumes AI songwriting tips

http://www.jasonblume.com/1748888.html


Herbie
JPF Chicago Chapter Coordinator
http://www.herbietunes.com

#492298 - 04/12/07 06:54 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Terry Moore]  
Joined: Jul 2001
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Glen King Offline
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Glen King  Offline
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Posts: 1,214
Richmond,VA. USA
Here's a cynical view: Some of you are poo-poohing the idea of winning $10K and having your song tied up for ten years...I suggest that the song you might enter would earn 0 otherwise. Your chances of getting a song recorded, even one that becomes a finalist in this contest, are infintesimal. That's the horrible truth about songwriting. Hardly any of us, will ever get a song recorded unless the artist is a relative. I say be thankful for $10K should you qualify. I've won many contests, one bigger than this one, and I couldn't get that song recorded for my life. In fact: If you examine contest winning songs, you won't find many of them ever get recorded, much less royalties.So if your song should get selected as a finalist, take the money and let'em have it for ten years. It goes by fast, believe me. /Glen

Last edited by Glen King; 04/12/07 06:54 PM.


Visit my music site:
Glen King
#492308 - 04/12/07 08:15 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Feb 2006
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Bass2x Offline
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Bass2x  Offline
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Posts: 242
SoNJ
Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
Originally Posted by Bass2x
What's wrong with being crafty and making money?
Isn't that what's it's all about in a capitalistic society?


Everything. If it is at other less fortunate peoples expense. I hate con-men.


Who's a con man? Simon?
He's an entertainment mogul.


“I got nasty habits; I take tea at three”

MUSIC: http://www.soundclick.com/jamescaloreandfriends
ART: http://JamesCalore.imagekind.com/
#492331 - 04/12/07 09:46 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Bass2x]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
New Jersey, USA
Ah, the old "the more you're sucessful, the bigger con you are".

I'm with bass2x on this. No con job for A.I. as I see it. It's a contract offer, in case a song is selected. The terms are there, although wordy, as usual. (Get a lawyer to read over it all if not sure). They tell you only 20 will be selected for their site to have fans vote.

They are the publisher, who keep ownership and collect the most money. Usual. (AND, someone who can actually do something in the music business with the top 20 songs), unlike the sharks that claim lots of things but don't really work within the music business.

Casinos offer a pull of the lever for some cash. This is a fast, short pull of a lever, and one that if selected, one's song will be in the hands of a successful working publisher for ten years! Who knows who might want to record that top 20 song five years from now,,,,9 years? If not, give them another ten with it! Maybe in the lucky 13th, it hits with somebody. ???? What else do we have going on for our songs,,,,And it is just one.

I see no con. I do see them seeing money from it, and they should. It's a business, like any other. The owners will make the most of course. What's the surprise or thoughts of it being a con in that?

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#492370 - 04/13/07 01:14 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

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Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Yeah we all know about the music business. It's not what you know but who you know. My point though just for the "hard of thinking" is it is OK conning us ordinary musicians. We are used to it and even expect it but it is shameful putting on TV weak and vulnerable people who have below average intelligence or abilities and making a laughing stock out of them. That is what sells AI. Spotting talent and musical prowess is totally alien to Simon Cowell as can be seen from the people he wants to promote and record. Spotting "weird" people who can get laughed at is his art form. TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY HE EVEN SELLS DVDs OF THE BEST OF THE WORST. People who condone this are either very stupid or completely lacking in morals.
For the sake of all contestants who have entered a song I wish you luck and hope that Mr Cowell has little or nothing to do with the Judging or final outcome. He could not pick his nose if it was a good song.

#492403 - 04/13/07 03:09 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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TAMERA64 Offline
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TAMERA64  Offline
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Posts: 583
USA
Hi there! I just got in the door literally from driving back home to Iowa from Nashville today. I totally didn't hear until days ago that this song contest was really going on. I heard rumors for awhile. I should have been more prepared. I wrote my song on Sunday and Monday. Then I jumped in the car and drove to Nashville Tuesday. Recorded my song yesterday and sent it in to Idol last night. Then jumped back in the car this morning and drove home. I just did a basic piano/vocal demo with a few strings.I am happy with it. But ya know, there are a tons a great songwriters out there. I would be super to make the top 20 just for the exposure alone. I am not worried about throwing another song out there. I am with Larry, ya got to get them heard. You can't sit on them forever. I wanted to challenge myself and see if I could write a great song in two days. I just wish I didn't have to drive to Nashville to get a nice clean recording. I knew it had to be clean and catchy and have a very short intro.

Having judged alot of songs myself with competitions I know that some songs get maybe 10 seconds if they are lucky. You can just tell up front if something is worth going much further. I tried to give everyone a fair shake when I was in that postion. These are industry people, probably from LA. I don't think they have time to sit and skip around on the song and come back to it too much, even if there are only 5000. I thought there would be about 3X more at least.

You only live once. I am not going to get bent out of shape about it. I enjoyed the challenge I gave myself to write a new song under pressure and I can always end up using it on my new project. Nothing is wasted. I wish everyone on here the best of luck if you chose to enter.

Tammy smile

www.tammyedwards.com

Last edited by TAMERA64; 04/13/07 03:11 AM.
#492437 - 04/13/07 10:44 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,639
Samuel Harris Offline
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Samuel Harris  Offline
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Posts: 3,639
Pleasant Hill, Oregon
Tamera84 I don't know about your song yet but I recognize the attitude that's the same one the successful Idol contestants have- going for it.

When it comes to how fast can your recognize a good or bad song? Anyone can try this experiment- go to sound click and listen to 20 random songs giving each 10 seconds. That is all it takes. If you have the time, go back and listen to the whole songs and see if your were right. I venture that even if you did that, you couldn't even force your self to finish some of them.

And here is the "human nature" truth about demos- a piano or guitar and vocal demo is fine but the playing and the singing must be very good. If a great song is preformed by a bad musician, the song is going to suck and the judge will pass it by.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
#492460 - 04/13/07 12:31 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Samuel Harris]  
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Steve West Offline
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Steve West  Offline
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Mpls, MN USA
Tammy,
I don't know how far Nashville is from you but there are some great studios up here in the Twin Cities you could use to do your demos.
Best of luck to all of you who entered the contest but I'll have to pass. I do not need to pay anyone anything to reject my songs, I have enough folks doing it for free grin


Steve West
Steve's Facebook site
Steve's CD
Now donating $1.00 to JPF for every sale to JPF members \:D
#492474 - 04/13/07 01:42 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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Maureen Fichten Offline
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New Jersey
Good for you Tammy, I also had to write a specific song for this and it was an exercise in writing for a certain genre. What the heck, nothing ventured nothing gained (and all the other cliches smile )

Good luck!

#492502 - 04/13/07 03:45 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Maureen Fichten]  
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TAMERA64 Offline
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TAMERA64  Offline
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Posts: 583
USA
Maureen, thank you for the good luck wishing. I wish the same for you and can't wait to hear the song you sent in. smile I think these kinds of things make us grow as songwriters. I have been plugging away for over 20 years and wish I could just hit one big one. Ha! Dont' we all?

Steve, I would LOVE to know of some good studios and musicians near to me in Iowa. If you can hook me up with some names that would be great. I don't think I want to drive to Nashville 11 hours each way whenever I want a demo. I just can't find anyone around here that plays keyboard like I like. Am I too picky?

Samuel Joe, You are right about listening to a song. It only takes 5 to 10 seconds to hear the quality. I believe that even if you have a great song, if you use a unappealing voice and bad musicians it will wreck it and I don't think they can see through it. For the most part anyway. As far as my tenacity. I am going for it till they put me in the ground, ha! And maybe one day I will get just one hit somewhere in this life time. They say it will happen for those who never give up. Time will tell..

Good luck to all of you. Send me links so I can hear what you came up with. I would enjoy that!
Thanks!
Tammy smile

#492542 - 04/13/07 06:23 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 242
Bass2x Offline
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Bass2x  Offline
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SoNJ
Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
Yeah we all know about the music business. It's not what you know but who you know. My point though just for the "hard of thinking" is it is OK conning us ordinary musicians. We are used to it and even expect it but it is shameful putting on TV weak and vulnerable people who have below average intelligence or abilities and making a laughing stock out of them. That is what sells AI. Spotting talent and musical prowess is totally alien to Simon Cowell as can be seen from the people he wants to promote and record. Spotting "weird" people who can get laughed at is his art form. TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY HE EVEN SELLS DVDs OF THE BEST OF THE WORST. People who condone this are either very stupid or completely lacking in morals.
For the sake of all contestants who have entered a song I wish you luck and hope that Mr Cowell has little or nothing to do with the Judging or final outcome. He could not pick his nose if it was a good song.


You sound bitter, Big Jim.
May be time for an adult beverage!
Chill big guy, it's how the world works.


“I got nasty habits; I take tea at three”

MUSIC: http://www.soundclick.com/jamescaloreandfriends
ART: http://JamesCalore.imagekind.com/
#492597 - 04/13/07 10:28 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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Joe Wrabek (D)  Offline
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Garibaldi, OR USA
Tammy, my solution to the "I don't want to drive to Nashville to record a d**n demo" was basically to create the resources at home. Did it twice, because I was living in two different places.

In Garibaldi (pop. 900), myself and a couple of friends created the Friday Night Group, whose weekly "concerts" are now the biggest event in town. We just wanted to play together somewhere that wasn't a tavern, and got a local hotel to let us camp in a corner of their lobby on Friday nights. People kept telling other people, and other msuicians kept showing up. Now we'll have between 1-2 *dozen* musicians show up, along with an audience (we sorta acquired an audience along the way) of up to 100 people. They're not professionals by any means, and some of 'em aren't very good--but they're *tight*, and everybody knows everybody else's material, because we've been playing together for so long.

They're my "backup band" if I need one. And I did that just last month--tapping half a dozen of 'em to help me record a song in the studio. The studio part was and is harder--there haven't been any such facilities in this forgotten corner of rural Oregon--but a local guy set up a pro-quality studio in a spare couple of rooms in his house recently, with some real good equipment, and I used him to record that abovementioned song (which has been sent to a publisher). He still needs to learn his way around the Sound Engineer business, but if I tell him what I want, it looks like he can deliver it.

Presto! No having to drive for hours, or pay other people big bucks. The studio is five miles away, and the band's right here in town.

I did a smiliar thing in Union, OR (pop. 1900), where I worked for most of the past two years. I was able to tap into an existing bunch of good musicians by haunting their open mikes and jam sessions; when the local Folklore Society had a Name Band bail out on them suddenly, I got called; I had them put me together a band, and we played a packed house. Got called again when the college wanted to put on a benefit concert for Katrina survivors, and we used mostly the same band. (They started calling themsdelves "Joe's Band" for some reason.) They were the ones I had be The Band on the CD.

Ended up with a studio handy there, too, when a local kid hung out his shingle up near the college. He played in a rock band, and I went to one of their performances and realized the kid had a really good ear and a good sense of arrangements; had him record the CD for me and The Band. And my CD brought him a fair amount of business, too, because the kid *is* good.

And there, I'd maintain that what we produced, with all-local (and volunteer) talent in a local studio was every bit as good quality as what I'd have gotten from the Big Boys. Maybe better, because the guys and gal in The Band were (again) tight, and knew the material from having played it a lot.

Bottom line. I think those experiences are replicatable in your area. I would expect it to take a while; took over a year in Union, and a good 4 years in Garibaldi. So it's a long tunnel, but there is a light at the end of it.

Joe

#492667 - 04/14/07 02:37 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Glen King]  
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Posts: 2,448
Ande Rasmussen Offline
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Ande Rasmussen  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,448
Martindale, TX, USA
excellent reply

ande

Originally Posted by Glen King
Here's a cynical view: Some of you are poo-poohing the idea of winning $10K and having your song tied up for ten years...I suggest that the song you might enter would earn 0 otherwise. Your chances of getting a song recorded, even one that becomes a finalist in this contest, are infintesimal. That's the horrible truth about songwriting. Hardly any of us, will ever get a song recorded unless the artist is a relative. I say be thankful for $10K should you qualify. I've won many contests, one bigger than this one, and I couldn't get that song recorded for my life. In fact: If you examine contest winning songs, you won't find many of them ever get recorded, much less royalties.So if your song should get selected as a finalist, take the money and let'em have it for ten years. It goes by fast, believe me. /Glen


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#492670 - 04/14/07 02:45 AM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: TAMERA64]  
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Ande Rasmussen Offline
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Ande Rasmussen  Offline
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Martindale, TX, USA
I agree, I think
you can't hide a bad song with a great demo
and
you can hide a great song with a bad demo

ande

Originally Posted by TAMERA64
Maureen, thank you for the good luck wishing. I wish the same for you and can't wait to hear the song you sent in. smile I think these kinds of things make us grow as songwriters. I have been plugging away for over 20 years and wish I could just hit one big one. Ha! Dont' we all?

Steve, I would LOVE to know of some good studios and musicians near to me in Iowa. If you can hook me up with some names that would be great. I don't think I want to drive to Nashville 11 hours each way whenever I want a demo. I just can't find anyone around here that plays keyboard like I like. Am I too picky?

Samuel Joe, You are right about listening to a song. It only takes 5 to 10 seconds to hear the quality. I believe that even if you have a great song, if you use a unappealing voice and bad musicians it will wreck it and I don't think they can see through it. For the most part anyway. As far as my tenacity. I am going for it till they put me in the ground, ha! And maybe one day I will get just one hit somewhere in this life time. They say it will happen for those who never give up. Time will tell..

Good luck to all of you. Send me links so I can hear what you came up with. I would enjoy that!
Thanks!
Tammy smile


Ande Rasmus sen
Ande R a s m u s s e n@aol.com
Ande R a s m u s s e n.com
SongRamp.com/ande
MySpace.com/anders

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#492802 - 04/14/07 03:25 PM Re: American Idol Songwriting Contest [Re: Ande Rasmussen]  
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TAMERA64 Offline
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TAMERA64  Offline
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USA
I just mentioned this on another thread, but I do think that it is misleading for American Idol to encourage everyone to enter this on their website. They say under the part about recording to use your computor to record your vocal demo. Come on? Let's get real. I don't think that could really get their attention. I think it is another way to make extra money off of people who really aren't that musical to just go ahead and send in their money. That part is misguided. I do think some of this is done to pull in extra cash. Do you think we will ever know the truth about how many songs were really sent it?

Tammy

www.TammyEdwards.com

Last edited by TAMERA64; 04/14/07 03:26 PM.
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