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#486151 - 03/25/07 02:17 PM Dedicated Hardware vs. Software  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Larry Read Offline
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Larry Read  Offline
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North County,San Diego,Ca
Heres another one of those debateable questions. How many users out there use a Dedicated Audio Workshop like a Yamaha, Korg or Roland? If so what do you like about it most?

Vs software with a computer interface?
and if you use an interface which one do you use.

Example.. I Personaly I use a TC Electronics 28D Firewire Interface when I use a computer based software. It offers outstanding stand alone reverb and .....

I also use a Yamaha AW 2400 with waves card.

And those who use Plug Ins.. do you find it as good, better or the same as a dedicated real Hardware external interface?

Personally, I like the real deal external processors

This one should bring some interesting responses..


your only a stranger once after that a new found friend
http://cdbaby.com/cd/larryread
http://www.LarryReadsMusic.com
Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist/Audio Engineer BMI &
Audio Engineering Society Member
#486196 - 03/25/07 05:05 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Larry Read]  
Joined: Dec 2001
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
I'm an in the machine and plugin user. But I record live instruments with mics. There are somethings that are just too amazing in a computer that can't be done in a standalone box. My goto reverb is Altiverb. It's a convolution reverb which means it's a real room, and as long as you have an IR sample of a room, you can be "in" any room - it beats any external box for realism in spacial quality. The only thing better is to record in the actual space.

There are some boxes that are amazing, there are some plugins that are amazing. There is no be all end all. Everyone will find something that is musical to them. Even so, you have to get to know your medium that you're using. Like in the instance of synthesizers, I like the ones that come with Logic and never gave them much thought beyond that. Then in January a buddy of mine introduced me to the Virus. It's a high end synth that costs about $2500 or so. I heard it and now I want one bad, it's got such amazing character. I've started talking to the company that makes it and will likely pick one up before too long. Another cool feature for the Virus, it has a direct interface for Logic Pro (I like that for ease of use).

I prefer the ease of computers for recording. Rather than a dedicated box for mobile recording like a Roland or Korg, I'd prefer to use a laptop and a small firewire interface. That allows me to use the same program and file format so I don't have to dump things between programs. Very effective and every bit as portable.

I have a friend who has been in the biz a long time. He's had about every piece of high end gear you can think of. He really dig's the UA plugins for the UAD. Says they're every bit as good or better than the external boxes they emulate. I have no reason to doubt him, he knows his stuff and has great ears.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#486201 - 03/25/07 05:21 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Scott Campbell Offline
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Lakeland, FL, USA
I record onto my computer hard drive using a TASCAM US 122 interface that came bundled with Cubase software. Plug-ins for compression, reverb and a few other effects.

Why? I'm a beginner and, already having a computer, it was the easiest and cheapest way for me to get started.

Do I like the plug-ins better? Don't know - I'm a beginner grin

I mic my acoustic guitar and banjo (vocals and harmonica too grin ). I plug my keyboard directly into the TASCAM and electric guitar through a processor to the TASCAM.

Scott

#486210 - 03/25/07 05:50 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Larry Read]  
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TrumanCoyote Offline
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TrumanCoyote  Offline
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I use both. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. I use whatever is best suited for the project at hand.

#486299 - 03/26/07 01:26 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: TrumanCoyote]  
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DakLander Offline
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DakLander  Offline
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NoDak
Strictly lo-ball here.
Home recording is to a computer.
Field/gig recording is usually FOH miked to tape and then transfered to the computer.

#486437 - 03/26/07 04:38 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: DakLander]  
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Larry Williams Offline
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Santa Clarita, CA USA
I have Protools, Logic Pro, and Digital Performer and have used all of them (even used Cubase for a while). I've also recorded demos with a friend's Korg 16 track recording system.

For quick, no-frills demos, the stand-alone units are hard to beat - and they're fairly portable.

For serious, master-quality stuff I think you'll find that DAWs (computers + software) will rule. Obviously, you don't have to use them only for that, but there is a learning curve that's mostly higher than with an all-in-one box.


#486705 - 03/27/07 12:54 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Larry Williams]  
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Shandy Offline
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Shandy  Offline
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New York City
I do the bulk of my processing In The Box, which I never thought I would do-- but like Jody said, the advent of certain plugins is just too good to ignore. Right now I'm really into the UA stuff (the plate 140 reverb and the Neve EQs are spectacular), and they're good enough to get you a good mix with plenty of realism and vibe. For less than a grand I can get plugins that are quite close in sound and feel to the hardware that they emulate.

Having said that, for me there will still never be a software replacement for a genuine 1176, LA-2A, Pultec EQ, API pres, etc.,.. I mean, I just need to turn KNOBS.


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
#486779 - 03/27/07 06:19 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Shandy]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Shandy
I do the bulk of my processing In The Box, which I never thought I would do-- but like Jody said, the advent of certain plugins is just too good to ignore. Right now I'm really into the UA stuff (the plate 140 reverb and the Neve EQs are spectacular), and they're good enough to get you a good mix with plenty of realism and vibe. For less than a grand I can get plugins that are quite close in sound and feel to the hardware that they emulate.

Having said that, for me there will still never be a software replacement for a genuine 1176, LA-2A, Pultec EQ, API pres, etc.,.. I mean, I just need to turn KNOBS.


Hear hear, the UAD stuff is amazing! I'm waiting for my next computer purchase to get a 2nd UAD card (and upgrade the one I have) and the full line of all the plugs for it.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#486896 - 03/27/07 11:36 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Shandy Offline
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Shandy  Offline
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New York City
I have a bunch of them (UA), and while the effects are alright, it's really the EQs and compressors that stand out with UA. They have a new EQ out today based on the old Helios stuff, worth a look for sure.

UA is one of those companies that make you want to do business with them because of their awesome customer service... plus, they're always having promotions and giving away stuff. smile


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
#486906 - 03/28/07 12:00 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Larry Read Offline
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Larry Read  Offline
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North County,San Diego,Ca
I Personally own and use an UA LA-610 and I love this unit!!
It's the best Mic Pre amp/eq and Limiter/Compressor I have ever heard.. VERY MUSICAL!

I also use both a Yamaha AW2400 dedicated audio work station with the optional WAVES card installed. WAVES rules when it comes to thier Ultra Max dithering program is great
and thier TruVerb reverb is not bad either.

I also use Cubase with (4) TC Electronics 28D firewire interfaces all linked together. I am still getting used to it.
I am considering a Mackie work surface interface for it since
I prefer a physical hands on interface vs. a mouse.

I just purchased and it's supposed to arrive in the next 2 days
JBL's latest powered monitors with the auto room equlizers in them they include software and a reference microphone for set up.
Should make getting an exact reference mix easier!

Which brings up another question ... what reference monitors do you use and why...?


Last edited by Larry Read; 03/28/07 03:11 AM.

your only a stranger once after that a new found friend
http://cdbaby.com/cd/larryread
http://www.LarryReadsMusic.com
Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist/Audio Engineer BMI &
Audio Engineering Society Member
#486937 - 03/28/07 01:13 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Larry Read]  
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Shandy Offline
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Shandy  Offline
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New York City
Originally Posted by Larry Read
It's the best Mic Pre amp/eq and Limiter/Compressor I have ever heard.. VERY MUSICAL!


It's certainly one of the classic pieces of outboard, but it's neither a preamp nor an equalizer. But you're right about the comp/limiter part.


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
#486947 - 03/28/07 01:27 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Shandy]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Park City, UT, USA
I use Genelec 1029's for monitors. I've never been unhappy with them.

Jody


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#486974 - 03/28/07 03:10 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Larry Read Offline
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Larry Read  Offline
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North County,San Diego,Ca
Opps!! Mine is a UA LA 610 and Yes it has a warm tube Pre amp and eq and COMP/LIMITER... and yes it's very musicalit's a combo
of an LA 2A T4 Opto & The 610 Tube Pre


Last edited by Larry Read; 03/28/07 03:16 AM.

your only a stranger once after that a new found friend
http://cdbaby.com/cd/larryread
http://www.LarryReadsMusic.com
Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist/Audio Engineer BMI &
Audio Engineering Society Member
#487175 - 03/28/07 07:20 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Larry Read]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
JPF Mentor
Mike Dunbar  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Well, I've got two ADAT machines and a Carvin 24 track board, but I don't use them much anymore, I keep the ADAT's for AD converters and the use the Carvin for live gigs. Then I've got a Fostex 8 track stand alone, well, it's sort of stand alone, it doesn't hook to a computer, but it uses a SCSI hook up to a 3.5 gig disk drive, but I don't use that very much any more. Then I've got a Boss 4 track (I never remember the number so I call it the BR-549) that fits in my briefcase and takes batteries, it has some pretty decent guitar sounds and records to flash cards. I use that as a notepad when I travel and we've actually hooked it up to live boards for gig demos. Mostly, I use a PC with an ASUS dual core processor with a dual pentium 4. It has 4xDIMM max 8GB, DDR2-800/667/533 Mhz non-ECC unbuffered memory, with 400 GB storage on one 10,000rpm and three 7,200rpm hard drives...whatever the heck that all means. I use that a lot, I just turn it on and record with it.

I've looked at the UA 610, I like the 1176 compressor a little more than the LA2A, to my ear, it works better with both the voice and the bass, LA2A is great for the voice. I'd like to buy both eventually, but will probably go with the 1176 first. In the meantime, I use an ART pre that has a compressor and an eq, but usually just use the pre and keep the compressor to limit just the peaks. I've got some good plug-in compressors that do the trick. If I need high end, I go to friends' studios. You can't walk five minutes here without passing a studio.

Speaking of plug ins, I like Antress' VST free stuff, he's controversial, some folks say it's all eyewash, but I've found most of it to be useful and it's freeware. Also the mda free stuff is cool, and there's a really decent free eq called the Electroni-Q. You can find all these things with a search. Mostly VST, but there are some DirectX free things available.

If I had the money, I'd get a full bank of mics and tube pres, I wouldn't even read the names, just the prices, and buy the most expensive dozen or so.

Joe was Meek but Manley,
He called UA Shure thing,
He was proud of his ProTool,
And could make that Hammerfall ring,
One day as he was Roland along,
Emu'sed about saving Grace,
AKG fellow was old Joe,
But his Mistress kept him in place.
They dropped Acid and watched the Unicorns,
Play in the dawn's Fairlight,
Upon the lawn they'd Motu morrow,
Without Nuendo in sight.

All the Best,
Mike







You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#489289 - 04/03/07 08:41 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11
pipelineaudio Offline
Casual Observer
pipelineaudio  Offline
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Posts: 11
To me the software tools are becoming better and better, and at least in my specific case, I had quite a few plugs built for me EXACTLY the way I wanted, so if there's anyone to blame for not liking them I can only blame myslef. I wish I could program and save these poor coders my incessant bugging.

I say for noisegates its a no brainer. ReaGate and Sonitus Gate R3 bring all the time travelling dreams of the hardware days into reality! All that time you wished your Drawmer could truly see ahead in time (without delaying the signal) for detection purposes is completely implemented in these plugins

With EQ's and Compressors, it usually starts flame wars, and peoples' preferences are so varied.

I usually get accused of not knowing what real gear sounds like or whatever when these topics come up

Heres one of my mobile rigs
[Linked Image]



I am quite confident that I DO in fact have the actual hardware to make comparisons with and before I get flamed or accused ( not that anyone here has shown anything but being cool to each other, its just that I'm used to other, more flame-likely boards smile ) you could easily check these against my studios sites or bands' webpages or whatever, anyway:

I really do believe that in many cases, and especially for compressors, "character" can be achieved in software.

In the following two videos, I show how *I* might use a certain compressor to achieve the types of behaviour AND sounds that I look for when I am going for something other than a technical compressor, when I am actually after a sound altering type of comp

http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_7_-_ReaComp_Basics

and

http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_8_-_Using_ReaComp

You can pull this same type of technique with other compressor plugins, as long as filtering and rms size controls are available to you.

So though I have the hardware available to me, I am almost 100% in the box at this point

But the original poster REALLY hit the holy grail nail on the head when he mentioned reverb!

For me thats one that is REALLY sore in plugins. COnvolution reverbs help, and this latest generation of reverb plugs is showing some serious promise. IK's CSR is one Im currently trying to wrap my head around, Im really really enjoying it! But for the moment I am mostly using reverb impulses I download from http://noisevault.com/nv/

So whats the point of all this rambling? While sometimes I miss hands on the knobs, I personally am entirely comfortable with staying in the box.

#489660 - 04/04/07 07:20 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: pipelineaudio]  
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Richard Maclemale Offline
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Richard Maclemale  Offline
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New Port Richey, FL, USA
I think that a person must be comfy with their computer to use software recording tools, but... they sure beat the living hell out of dedicated hardware boxes for at home recording purposes.

I could see using a dedicated box to record something live... and then bouncing it to a computer afterward. There are an almost infinite amount of things you can do on a computer that a dedicated box alone can't do. Personally, I'm a Logic Pro guy and I can't imagine recording without it, at this point.


Richard MacLemale
Music = http://www.richardmac.com
#489767 - 04/05/07 12:04 AM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: pipelineaudio]  
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Shandy Offline
Serious Contributor
Shandy  Offline
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Posts: 589
New York City
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
IK's CSR is one Im currently trying to wrap my head around, Im really really enjoying it!


I really like the IK CSR set too... really good emulations of some of that digital outboard stuff.

I like your location rig, too... do I see some Chandler gear there? Sweet. The LA-2As and VoxBox are obviously great... is that a Langevin DVC up top? Those have been catching my eye lately.

If you don't spend some time on Gearslutz.com, you ought to. Nice toys. smile


Shandy Lawson
ShandyLawson.com
#490366 - 04/06/07 06:20 PM Re: Dedicated Hardware vs. Software [Re: Shandy]  
Joined: Apr 2007
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pipelineaudio Offline
Casual Observer
pipelineaudio  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Shandy

I like your location rig, too... do I see some Chandler gear there? Sweet. The LA-2As and VoxBox are obviously great... is that a Langevin DVC up top? Those have been catching my eye lately.


I cant remember if those ones have our chandlers or if those are brent averill boxed calrecs. The DVC, man what a deal! I usually use it as a direct box, I dont know why it works so well for that but MAN...guitar direct into that with a bit of the limiter on then to the free simulanalog jcm900 vst plugin is AWESOME!!!! Bass guitar works well thru the di too. Nothing wrong with its mic pres either

Quote

If you don't spend some time on Gearslutz.com, you ought to. Nice toys. smile


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=113173 I spend WAY too much time there lol

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