10 members (couchgrouch, Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill),
4,251
guests, and
265
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Hi all- I have a great sound recording and mixing my own music- I started out in 92' with a Tascam 4-track cassette workstation- Currently, I own an Akai DPS12-i digital 12-track. I have a good idea how to use the parametric EQ- (the frequency adjustments are tricky and the mid has a "width" adjustment") Is there a pattern to follow to get the right adjustments? Any books you know that explaine this? Any Akai owners out there?
The defaults settings are: low- level @ 12 o'clock low frequency @ all the way left 40 to 150k Mid- level @ 12 o'clock mid width all the way left Mid- frequency 12 o'clock 200 to 8k High- level @ 12 o'clock high frequency all the way right. 18k to 500. I don't expect a college course here on-line, but the mid-width, and frequency settings can be tricky. Where does one start? Cal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
What are you trying to accomplish?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Truman- From the factory default settings, I wish to adjust the EQ's to suit my taste. The frequency adjustment's are new to me, and wonder where one would start- which part of the spectrum- is there a rule of thumb as far as adjusting them? Particularly, in relation to the levels. Mid width also.
Thanks,
Cal
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
Top 30 Poster
|
Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412 |
I assume there is a flat position for all the controls. Basically I would start with the controls in the flat position, In effect, no boost, no cut, and adjust from the bass control as I listen and go up the sprectrum from there. Too much boost or too much cut could ruin the final sound. You have to listen as you adjust until it is pleasing to you.
Ray E. Strode
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Thanks Ray-
The default settings threw me off- Some are far left, others far right- I'm not sure those settings are flat? You are right: to much-boost-definately ruins the sound- Cal
P.S.*note* all- I forgot to activate my e-mail alert- so if I don't get back to your responses, right away, please bear with me-
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 02-07-2004).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
You may get different responses from other engineers on this one, but I'll give you my take.
For general tweaking of your sound, use a multiband graphic EQ. They are simpler and they work fantastic.
Parametrics--to me, anyway--are more for fixing specific problems.
Say you have a hum, or a noise, in one of your tracks. You can't re-record. So, you can open your parametric, dial up the precise frequency(s) that contain the hum, and pull that frequency right out of the mix. You can make it very narrow, so that you don't affect much of anything except what you WANT to affect. Or, maybe you have already mixed your tracks and now discover that the hi-hat could be a little louder. Again, you can identify the very specific and very narrow frequency that contains the hi-hat, and then you can nudge it up a bit without affecting much else that is on the track.
Recently, I had to mix a track that had a solo organ part at the end. Just organ, and no other instruments. Unfortunately, there was some kind of high-end crackling noise in the track. It sounded like a scratchy potentiometer. The organ player was a half-continent away, so there was no way to re-record the track. But, using a paremetric, I was able to notch out the noise without hardly affecting the sound of the organ. It was a lifesaver.
If I have no real problems in a track or in a mix, I just do not use the para.
Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Truman- Sounds like good advice. I'll try leaving the parametric's as they are, on default settings; maybe work from there.
I prefer graphic EQ's- and am more familiar with them. I may sell the Akai, and move up to a Yamaha-AW16G- which has XLR mic-inputs/pre-amps, 4 more tracks, and better effects. The Akai, does do an awesome job recording- and is easy to get around. Could be a great unit to record the drums with- and an extra 12 tracks. Thanks again
Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 02-07-2004).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145 |
Cal, if you sell the Akai, another option might be to get a computer and use software for your recordings... That way you can get a nice quality board or pre-amp to get your signal into the computer and do all your mixing in the computer... by now software plug ins can do a better job than hardware in most cases... Just a thought...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Thanks Paul-
You are correct in regards to the current computer systems, recording and editing (mixing) digital music. Computers are the crux of the recording/entertainment industry. Pro Tools etc.. It can get quite expensive though- to do it right.
I have been using my Boss 660 drum machine and the sequencer on my Roland JV 1000- for first draft arrangements- and record my vocals straight through my mixer to a Tascam duel deck cassette recorder. This give me a pretty good idea of the songs potential- it's quick and is good for copyright versions, and letting friends and studio musicians hear the songs. I then polish the tunes, record them on my digital workstation, adding the additional instrumentation, and vocals.
I prefer at this time using the smaller home workstation equipment, because of the expense, and learning curves of the computer systems. Depending on the publisher or record company, I can submit tunes with this quality of recordings. It does not compete with a more elaborate computer system, or a pro-studio.
I guess it depends on the song itself, and how much one can invest in time and expense.
When I have the funds (and potentially hit quality songs), I hope to ultimately record my takes in a pro studio. Analog tape, is a good asset also, in combination with the digital domain.
Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 02-09-2004).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145 |
Well, that's definitely a good plan, and as long as it works, hey, that's the important things... If you ever go the computer route, you don't need to go Pro-Tools... Pro Tools is very over priced, and you get the same quality from Sonar, Cubase or Logic... It's sort of like, you can record quality vocals, but you don't need to use a Neumann Mic... Not that Pro Tools is quality like a Neumann, just pricey... ------------------ www.soundclick.com/paulradelat
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
I hear ya Paul-
Your comparison pertaining to the mic's, and demo quality is right on- Also I learned all in all, one should obtain the best recording (demo) that he/she can afford- or have access to, if ones objective is trying to get a cut. The quality of the home studio gear has become so advanced, (computers and all)it is probable to, being able, to put a product on the air-waves.
I have visited a couple studio's in Nashville TN and met the owners. The average price per song in a 3/4 song block, is about $900 to $1200 per song- they use Music Row musicians, and the quality is like the top country artists tunes you here on the radio, (or pretty close, depending how much $'s, and studio time you need). These people have publishing, connection capabilities, and know everybody in town- i.e. Buck and Jim, "Buck's Place", in Henderson TN, use Patty Loveless's base player, and grew up with Steve Wariner. They have platinum and gold records on the walls. I feel the vocal/instrument demo, has it's place in the pitching end of the industry, but does have it's weaknesses, and one better have an awesome, "great," hit quality song, and some heavy connections- also the ability to physically hit the streets, and place your stuff directly in the hands of the A&R rep.. Insist (tactfully) they listen to the song while you are there.
I find myself somewhere in the middle, and would love to record in a magor studio, when am ready.
Thanks again
Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 02-11-2004).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 145 |
Well, even though you're definitely paying a good price, it sounds like you're getting a great sound for your money... and in the end, if that's what sells your song, you can't beat that... ------------------ www.soundclick.com/paulradelat
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
$900 to $1200 per SONG???
Man, that is way too much. I do all my demos in Nashville, at professional studios, using top-notch gear, and first-rate Nashville session players.
I pay about $400 per song. Here's how:
We hire the studio for around $50 per hour.
We hire 5 musicians for a 3-hour session at $150 each (double for the leader).
At 10 AM, we start on the tracks. In 3 hours, we record 5 tracks (once, I got 6).
At around 2PM the first vocalist arrives and we start tracking the vocals. Figure maybe 30 minutes per song, with a break in between. Vocal recording goes into the evening. Figure about $100 per song for the vocalists.
Next day, we mix. That afternoon, I leave with 5 radio-ready demos.
Studio time: $50 x 12 hours= $600 Musicians: $900 Vocals: $500 Misc (CDs etc): $100 Total: $2100 Divided by 5 songs: $425 each
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Truman- Thanks for your input. Does the studio you work with offer demo's of their work? I'd like to hear one. I also can get demo's for $400 per song- The price sounds tempting.
The studio's I'm speaking of are the best in Nashville TN- Mainframe is one of them. Dick McVey (producer),works with Moonlight Studio-and does an excellent job- has quite a track record- When I was at Buck's, Buck was finishing mixing a tune going on the air the next day- Through my friends who played with Brad Paisley, and Trisha Yearwood- I met a producer who owns a record company in Beverly hills CA., who comes up to Nashville TN, and works with Mainframe- he also had put songs out on the air waves. This is something one must consider when choosing a studio-
Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 02-11-2004).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
I have done demos at Mainframe, and some master recordings, too. It is a humble little studio, in a little house. But Nathan is great, he has great gear, and he does superb work. He is also as honest as the day is long. He just mixed a CD for us.
I recommend him without reservation.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 159
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 159 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cal: [B]Thanks Ray-
The default settings threw me off- Some are far left, others far right- I'm not sure those settings are flat? You are right: to much-boost-definately ruins the sound- Cal Isn't that why you hire an engineer? I've heard it before, "How can you hear that frequency?" The same way y'all hear notes: with training and experience. I hear '440 Hz', y'all hear 'A'. I hear bandwidth ('Q'), y'all hear timbre. We all hear the same things, we just interpret, and deal with, that information in a different manner. I don't ask you for guitar lessons: please, don't ask me how to mix.
------------------ We are professionals: do not attempt this at home.
"Take 276, you know this used to be fun." John Entwistle
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
hey captain-
I see your down in Nashville- What studio do you work for? How long have you been at it- got any demo's of your mixes? I'd love to hear one-
I feel the home recording approach has it's high's and low points- is a good way for one to do a lot of work at home- is a great composing tool- and is a plus, if a person has the desire, to learn and and develop his/her skills, knowledge of, and talent in that area- It can greatly benefit one, to possess those skills.
I will agree that when a person is ready to "hire" a producer, an engineer, and pay serious studio time, at that point, it is appropriate to let the pro's handle the technical aspects of the recording process. Although, I would insist, on some flexibility, from the staff- regarding my input, on certain issues.
Cal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 159
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 159 |
Posts: 341 From: Allen Park, MI Registered: Dec 2003 posted 02-07-2004 09:38 >> Truman- From the factory default settings, I wish to adjust the EQ's to suit my taste.The frequency adjustment's are new to me, and wonder where one would start- which part of the spectrum- is there a rule of thumb as far as adjusting them? Particularly, in relation to the levels. Mid width also.<<
This is why there are musicians and engineers/ you hear notes, I hear frequencies. Give me a good parametric, tell me what you want, it's done.
------------------ We are professionals: do not attempt this at home.
"Take 276, you know this used to be fun." John Entwistle
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 273
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 273 |
Record Flat. Then tweek during mixdown. Experiment. The main thing; have fun. Home studios are powerful tools. Learn to use your parametric. It will teach you about frequency more so than a graphic. Don't get me wrong. Graphics are great tools. But parametric EQs can help you learn to use your ears better. Good luck to you. Kris Karr http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/kriskarrmusic.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/everywednesdaymusic.htm
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Thanks Kris-
I have the concept, just not the experience. I usually physically experiment with all the knobs and buttons- when I get stuck, I then go back to the manual. Unfortunately, the manual does not cover the technical aspects of the parametric EQ. I suppose I can go to the library and hope to find a book on the subject- or look for a book at a major bookstore- or on-line.
Cal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 273
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 273 |
Cal, Basically it works somewhat like this from what I understand. Don't quote me. More than likely your low and high EQ sections are what's called "shelving". Say for instance, you increase the lows with a frequency setting of 92Hz. As you increase the gain all the frequencys below 92Hz also increase. The same with the highs only all the frequencys above increase. You can see that smile on your graphic EQ all ready. The mid band is most likely a peak type EQ. This means that as it's gain is raised or lowered, some of the frequencys on either side of it follow the centered frequency causing what looks like a peak. This can be used to add definition to a vocal by increasing it around the 900Hz range, or used to get rid of an acoustic guitars boominess at around 200-300Hz by cutting or rolling off. With a bandwith or "Q", you can also use it to find the most irritating frequencys as well in a track and notch it out. The Highs and Lows are probably much like the ones on your 4 track with the acception that they are variable. Graphic EQs are fixed EQs. While they are easy to adjust, they are not as accurate as a Parametric is in finding an earsplitting frequency. They both serve us well though. When I use a parametric, I move the gain up and sweep the frequency adjustment and listen for the one I'm looking for and the boost it, or cut it depending on the situation. Give it a go. Take care Kris Karr http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/kriskarrmusic.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/everywednesdaymusic.htm
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574
Top 200 Poster
|
OP
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,574 |
Thanks for the support Kris- You made a good visual with the "smile" example- regarding the settings on a graphic EQ- I'll get the feel with more practice.
Cal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579 Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
|
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579 Likes: 13 |
Thought we should move this up for folks. = )
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
|
|
|
We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.
|
|
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
|
Most Online37,523 Jan 25th, 2020
|
|
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
|
|
|
|