JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Brian Austin Whitney Blog Thursday, June 8th, 2006

Hi Folks,

I am thinking about biting the bullet to upgrade our JPF message boards significantly to the newest version available. It will cost roughly 1000 dollars to do the top upgrade. Since you guys are the ones who use it, I thought I would get your thoughts on whether you think it's worth it, what features you like, how we can better use them etc.. I am not an expert on all the things you can do with the "threads" version of our board, but the company behind it will no longer support our message board after June 15th, so either we upgrade or we use this one until it finally crashes for good. (It's gotten slow and glitchy in the past).

Some concerns I have include the fact that our board is all over the search engines. An upgrade will kill all those links and thus cost use tremendous site traffic generated by those links. The posts will still exist, but we'll have to wait literally years to get the same search engine attention that we have built since 1999 with this board.

Here's the link to the info on the new board:

http://ubbcentral.com/ubbthreads/features.php

So I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Brian

I'm fond of the way these boards are working...very comfortable...went out to the Muses Muse looked around...lots of zoomy features...but way too much graphic input into the posts...I think the established links are important to consider...Now that being said and if you decide to upgrade I'm in for however you decide to raise the funds...tom



[This message has been edited by Tomtimeless (edited 06-08-2006).]

Well, is there anyway to save all the links (by dividing up the chore...) then add them to the new upgrade?
Does it work that way with yours?
Basically, if there isn't any support, then it's move forward or be dead in the water...Yes? I really like this setup. It's easy to navigate.
Ultimately, I'd say do what's best for JPF in the long run. Does anybody know of any other good companies to go with?

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Atchya'Later, Ms.Goody
Mellow Melodies with Goody Internet Radio show at
http://www.PeaceMaker-Web.com



[This message has been edited by Ms.Goody (edited 06-08-2006).]

Well, I for one have gotten quite used to this style board. I'm pretty sure a couple of other boards I use have the latest version but I'm not overly impressed with it. But it really does come down to support. You are on the Board more than any of us so you would see every glitch and hiccup. I'm sure all of us would support your best decision on this. As for $1,000 I don't any real ideas but to say you ask (plead) with every member to send you $1. Then you should have about $39,000 left for a pizza party. I'll come

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Steve West
Steve's Website

Every other board I've been active on that's done a major "upgrade" seems to have had a major drop in activity immediately afterward. Of course I've never been on another as active as this one - and most others don't keep the stuff that's more than a few months old available to find.

I'm wondering if you couldn't find someone who knows enough about this board to maintain it even if the folks who created it don't want to anymore...


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Marty my home

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you
recognize a mistake when you make it again!

I've always believed that if 'it ain't broke, don't fix it'....lol. I'm happy with this style of board.

I really think 'simple is better' in the long run. I' prefer a board that doesn't have too many bells and whistles so it runs ok on computers of us poor musicians out there who sometimes can't afford to upgrade to the top of the line equipment as quickly as they'd like.

I think the simplicity of these boards is one reason why they're so popular.

Raising funds? JPF teeshirts? ...tom

The reason to upgrade now is that right now, we can get the UBB people to convert all the pages on the site now to the new format. If we wait, that option will likely go away and if the board crashes, it will all be lost. It's already a bit finicky (we had that crash a few months back that corrupted about a dozen members accounts which had to be deleted and their post numbers reset which I am sure was quite annoying to them.. it would have annoyed me).

I brought up the same concerns you guys are (if it isn't broke, don't fix it) and it's funny for you guys to have the same concerns. That's why I've never upgraded it. I don't think a bunch of graphics improves the board.. it detracts. I can limit a lot of those things. I can also include something like google ads into it to raise some funds without being overly obnoxious. Or I can put our current community partner logos on it more easily which would give them the support they deserve, because without them, we'd be unable to do any of this.

As for cost, we're about 40K in the red this year with the awards. We won't be able to make it all up at the awards show because it doesn't look like we'll find a large venue, so we won't be able to sell more tickets to make up some of the cost. Even with raising ticket price (which we have to do, there's no other choice) we definitely won't have money for a board upgrade. But it's kind of now or never.

Have any of you clicked that link to check out the new version? We may be able to get it to look very similar to this one. But I, like many of you, like the board the way it is.. but there are some limitations that are annoying which a new board would fix.

Brian

I'm not a technical person, so I don't have anything to offer in that area. All I know is I too really like how this format works. If there's a way to keep it that would work as is, or near it even, I'm for. I don't recall having any glitches here. "Good timing" I guess! Just so used to this system too.

Based on the Harrison/McCartney conflict while filming "Let it Be": I'll pay if you want me to, or I won't pay at all if that is what you want......whatever pleases you, I'll do.

John Daubert

I also am very comfortable with the board the way it is. I had a look at the features of the upgrade and it looks like a nice set of tools. I hope that the presence of those features will not confuse or slow down members who choose not to take advantage of them.



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Steve Dockendorf
"Quality music for quality people"
dockendorf2000@yahoo.com
www.soundclick.com/stevedockendorf

Hi Brian, I checked out the screenshots on the link. I could live with it.

Whatever it takes to save all the posts seems the way to go. There are a ton of great discussions on these boards.

Tony

Brian,
If the current provider won't support this board version after June 15th, ask them if you can at least have access to the source code. It's possible they'll give you a copy since they're moving on to newer versions.

The point is, as long as you have the working code, we (or one of us) could make some minor "tweaks" as needed and have full access to backups and future migration(s) as needed.

Possibly we could just do some maintenance and keep this board (as we know it) working for a few more years. That would reduce the stress of being forced to instantly migrate and thereby risk losing some things.

If you wish, please send me an email or give me a phone call for a bit more (detailed) discussion on this. I'm sure we can figure something out!

Michael


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The OUTLOOK may often appear bleak, but the UPLOOK is always bright!
Michael Borges
Praiseworthy Productions

[This message has been edited by Michael Borges (edited 06-09-2006).]

Just a thought: does the older UBB version used now by JPF save threads in a database? If so, it should be relatively easy (in theory) to set up redirect URLs for almost every thread.

You'd probably have to ask the UBB folks if they can provide this (specifically, you'll want to ask for an ".htaccess" file that contains the redirect instructions (that's the file that tells the server where to find the new thread URLs).

Personally, I have no preference, but I sympathize with the dilemma of sticking with older, soon-to-be-unsupported software.

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Scott Andrew
Lo-fi acoustic pop superhero!
http://www.scottandrew.com/music

I like the message board the way it is...but if you have to change, you have to...

I'm usually one to say if it isn't broke, don't fix it, but still explore future options. In this case, the boards may not necessarilly be broke, however if you need the support then it's time to upgrade before it becomes a major headache.

If the upgrade is anything similar to the hostbaby forums, its not much different than what you have now. It's more a new look, like getting a new car.

As for raising the dough. You mention google ads. I personally wouldn't be bothered by this, and apparently they do make people money. If you do dedicate ad space in the new version - maybe you can promote those companies that do sponsor you. You could also take ads from other music relate ventures. I'm all for it.

I believe Scott gave you a great response in how to deal with the 'lost' traffic. If anyone should know how to 'trick' the net it's him. I'm sure it could be rectified and all will not be lost. You will need to make the jump, better to make it now and get on the new path rather than wait until it's too late.

I know this is going to be a strange analogy, but I'll make it anyway. When Apple said goodbye to OS9, it angered a lot of people. I was one of the few that jumped in feet first to OSX. It took a few days to get used to it, but once I did, there was no going back. The downside was, I had to wait for software that I needed to become available, so I made due with the programs that I did have and bought stuff as it became available. I jumped on Logic for recording the day it came out. I got Adobe InDesign for layouts of my CD's because Quark took too long. I ended up liking InDesign better and never when back to Quark (Quark lost a lot of business for being arrogant about migrating their software). For my audio software I was able to buy things piece by piece as they became available in OSX. It was tough to 'downsize' to things I hadn't used, but it was good creatively as I went back to figuring out how to mess with stuff I had never used before in Logic. Because I got additional things as they came out it was easier on me financially. Whereas I had tons of friends who waited and waited. Mostly because they had massive arsenals of 'cracked' audio software in OS9 that wasn't possible to crack in OSX. For them to migrate it was going to cost them thousands of dollars in software (that they had gotten free in the past) to jump all at once, and be at the same level they were before, because they waited too long.

My point is, sometimes its better to tighten the belt a little scale back with your first steps into the future and explore the possibilities before you're absolutely forced to.

Jody

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Music That Makes Your Soul Happy!
www.jodywhitesides.com

There is something very warm & welcoming about the look of the JPF pages the way they are now. Right from the first time I saw them. From what I could tell from the link above it looked cold and generic. But maybe the new one can be altered.

I wonder how long after the 15th would it crash for good?

I'd be very happy to stay as is.. but if you gotta change and take a step backwards to move forwards I'm with that.
If it's a go take the top upgrade
We should chip in and pay for this upgrade, we have so many active people it would be cake. Let me know when & where to mail financial support.

Always wanted spell check to work but always bailed out trying to get it happening..

Peace
Sub

Yeah, spell check is just one of the things that never worked on this board. And now it will REALLY never work if we don't upgrade.

It's funny, I totally expected the response we've gotten (i.e. in general, people would rather just keep it the way it is... I guess I know the community better than some people think.. others advised me that no one would care.. HA!).

The idea from Scott, if it's possible/practical, would really take a load off my own concerns. I'd hate to lose all the google hits and it would takes years and years to show up in as many search engines as some of our long running posts do. (It would also let a lot of scam artists off the hook which we now expose.. and I don't like that idea either).

Keep the feedback coming.

Brian

Brian,
When it comes to new inovations I am a moron. If the change is needed I trust you to do what you feel should be done. I will roll with it all.
James



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James
www.JRHawkins.com

Brian,
Wish I could offer some constructive suggestions. When it comes to this issue it looks like Mike Borges has an idea and the expertise to help. I will however pass the hat when needed.
Al Alvarez

Here is my experience with upgrades:

I HATE to upgrade. But....

Whenever they are imposed on me, I have a brief period of annoyance, after which I quickly adjust to the new features.

Whenever the choice of when to switch has been mine, I have waited too long and the resulting hassles, usually caused by loss of support, cause me far more grief than if I would've switched earlier.

Like most others, I like the look and feel of this place, That is a separate issue from the support though - and the new one can be made to look as much like this one as you want.

So it seems:

Costs = loss of hits and actual monetary costs to switch

Benefits = Support

Look and feel = non-issue, really - for the reason given above.

The costs will seem high, but only until the day the thing crashes. I'd say switch.

You can't do something this big without support - it's whistling past the graveyard.

All opinion, of course....

Scott

I've never been resistent to change, but I can see how something new would be intimidating to those people who don't consider themselves very computer savvy. Also, my concern in upgrading would be that we not lose any of the old message board posts. I've watched several websites upgrade and literally start at 0 posts - all the old data just went away never to be recovered again. If nothing is lost, then I'd have no objections myself to the upgrade.

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Sheila Kirsten Hughes - www.skhughes.com
voice that's both powerful and delicate, incredible range both vocally and stylistically—what's not to love!"
—Jewel's Soul City Cafe

Nubzilla's Cafe www.nubzilla.com - Indulge in the Arts!

Change is good. If it wasn't we'd still be chippin flint. Go for it. It makes sense. Not much difference to me after perusing the example.

I second pretty much everything Jody said. The boards work fine for now, but who knows what it'll cost to fix down the road if something really goes wrong.

And I know you're not crazy about putting ads on here, but the rest of us really don't mind the idea at all, especially if it would lighten the fiscal load a little...



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Shandy Lawson

Folk-noir Ballads and Acoustic Brawls
ShandyLawson.com

Shandy's Soundclick

Oh ya - as far as ads - I don't see a problem with imbedded ads - you need to make some money. As long as they aren't pop-ups, it's all good to me.

One more thought... if you're thinking of doing the Google ads Brian, you might consider doing some more affiliate marketing too. Amazon offers affiliate programs... you could have a JPF bookstore through them and offer some of the recommended reading for working musicians (or through Amazon's partnership with Musician's Friend - everything from mic stands to guitar picks) and get a small kickback for any purchases from your click throughs.

My husband is a music teacher (among other things) and he offers a bookstore for his students this way, selling all the products he recommends for them to use. They're not required to purchase their lesson supplies this way, but it's a nice service.

There are other companies too that might offer affiliate opportunities you could advertise. There's an affiliate hub site called Linkshare that is useful for this kind of thing. They offer hundreds of affiliate partnerships.

For example... on another website I'm involved with, we're powering the audio samples on the site with i-mixes created through i-tunes. Then we're linking to the i-mixes through an affiliate program and any i-tunes sales that come from clicking through from our site we get a small percentage. We really are focused on using i-tunes to provide the audio samples and not as a major source of revenue, but having an occasional sale is a nice bonus. It's not much in terms of dollars, but it's more than nothing.

Just a thought.
Christine

ditto ditto and ditto...I like it the way it is, but...if you have to you have to...I would definitely contribute some money toward it. The great thing about the JPF community is....if there are problems that arise with the new stuff, we'll just talk our way through it!

Herbie

Brian

It is nearing the 15th therefore I will support you in whatever you decide to do. I like the update based on what i can see. I am not very knowledgable in that area but if you feel it is something we can benefit from then email me at: wscott2803@comcast.net.

Peace

Scott

"If you build it, we will come."

As for spell check not working, who cares! That's the only way we can tell who the really bad spammers are (they can't spell very well). I'll put up 10 American dollars to get a new board.

Would emails from 40,000 jpf members entice them to continue to offer support?

It's a managerial decision - do what you think best. I, too, would hate to see the information on the present boards lost.

Brenda

As Brian is the pied piper of the music world I will follow.As with all other things on these boards I am sure we will help each other through the changes if necessary.
Having spell checker working will not fix a spammers stupidity!
Please let us know where to send donations should you decide to make the changes.

Jerry


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Jerry Jakala

I like the format we now have but I also think "change" is good. I agree with Sheila. If we can keep the old post and still do the upgrade, I'm cool with it...

Tom Stephens
www.tomstephens.orgfree.com
http://coldharborband.com

The new stuff looks ok, the old stuff looks ok. I haven't used a spell check in years, I don't nead it.

My concern is the profile in the search engines, keep the scammers up on top. I don't care about ads, as long as you don't have to watch one to get the cookie. That's too much like my grandma.

Another concern is the debt. Too many underwriters increase the chances that a shark could slip in through the cracks, but 40 grand is unacceptable. I know fees for the contests is distateful, but what if it were a $1.00 registration fee? Maybe paypal it online for uploads or have a check for mail ins (your bank would love you there, eh? maybe just a processing fee to do it as an upload through CDBaby? It'd save those entrants the postage and get you a little relief.)

Back to the board, again, I think the search engine profile is extremely important. Addressing that would be my only concern. Who needs spel check?

Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Brian:

Same as everyone else has told you, you need a free hand to do what you have to do.

it sounds like a couple of users are computer savvy enough to be able to keep what's old available, and optimize what's coming at us. Better to do this now, when the company is willing/able to handle the transition, than to play hurry and catch up later.

You'd think by now someone would come up with a way to index the search engines so upgrades could be handled without the fire drill ...

As for financial support--give us a snail mail address for the checks and we'll help with the effort.

Many thanks for all your great efforts to date. These boards have been a wonderful help to the Tampa Bay, Florida area.

Billie

Brian,
I am with Sheila K. Hughes on Mike Dunbar on this one.

I don't give a hoot about spellcheck and again, the main concern would be a.) loss of how many people find us here from search engines and b.) losing all the past posts from the BBs.

If cost is an issue then perhaps all of us can help with that.

Just my three cents.

Cindy

Hi Brian, Hope all is well with you. I am absolutely brainless when it comes to tech problems. I do know that this board, the forums, posting new topics and replies, is by far the easiest to navigate of any on the web. I have no trouble finding old posts that interested me and passed on. It would be a darn shame to lose the archives. I use them often.I wish I could suggest a simple solution that would please us all. Instead I just want to thank you for a most wonderful place to network and the only advise I can give is to place complete trust in your judgement. You have always had the interests of others in mind when you made any changes. Hope you get some good ideas, for I know you will sort through them and choose the best way to go for the good of us all. Thanks. We all love you. Idamarie