JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Bass and Drum Forum A Call For The Real Thing,,,,,,,,,,,Again!

I know it's a time of electronic gear that can do everything but go out and work for us. But, wouldn't you like to hear real drummers and bass players on these JPF demos,(including ours) and on the signed artist's records, and on any other CD,s demos, websites, etc.?

Enough with the "programs"!
Let's PLAY!

Tired of that same programed sound? That boy-band technique that has carried into every genre. Maybe practicality and "What's New" should now take a deep back seat to REAL PEOPLE PLAYING AGAIN, in the home and professional studios, the coffee houses, and anywhere where music is trying to be played!

So, what say you?
I say Program this!

John Daubert

I am a bandleader who sings and plays piano, and I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!!

I don't like machine music. I like REAL music, played by real musicians. I don't like that drummers are getting replaced right and left by "loops." It's not the same thing.

GIVE ME REAL!

(Now I'm going to run to the corner and cover my head because last time I criticized "machine music," Brian really blasted me, but I'm ready this time!)

YES, GIVE ME REAL, however impressive or imperfect! --Jean

Hello John and Jean,

Add me to the list of those people who are more thrilled by the sound of real people with real instruments!

I do have to admit I'm a bigger fan of the Country music realm versus the Techno music realm... That could have a huge effect on my personal perception on how music should be made and produced.

Best regards,
S.L.

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"digging deep in the verbal sludge of society, for the gems of interest"

Sure, who doesn't want to hear good live musicians in a genre where they're traditional?
But like it or not, computer drums and bass parts really are a matter of practicality for an awful lot of people recording demos -- and CDs. If they don't have access to or money for real studio time, there's no choice.
If you're trying to present your music as well as you possibly can, computerized drums are a better choice than a marginal recording of real instruments. Drummers(and bass players for that matter) can be hard to find and impossible to record decently in amateur settings, and even some professional ones -- especially when budgets are tight.
Would you say that people doing demos or CDs to release shouldn't use a synthesizer if they don't have access to an orchestra for strings? Unless you get very expensive modules for strings, they sound less accurate than any other synthesized instrument, including drums.

I'm a bluegrass/Americana musician, and I'm also collaborating on several techno recordings with the composer of a CD that won album of the year from an electronic music magazine last year. (It sounded a lot more "human" than most Nashville-produced country you hear these days.)

Synthesized instruments are new tools, and as such change the environment they're used in. If you're trying to replicate the previous environment, chances are you'll be disappointed.
But the new tools also can give you access to choices you couldn't even image without them.
For example, my composer friend, who's a killer sax player, recorded a track for a non bluegrass, but acoustic, song I wrote, using a sax Midi controller and a violin module. It sounded nothing like anything a real violinist would do, but it's great.

But when he recorded an album for a straight-up country player, he hired a drummer and a fiddler. There's no real right or wrong for this stuff. It's all just what you can afford and pull off well.

Just for the record, I didn't mean to say there is a "right" and a "wrong," I just was saying what I personally value. The more human, the better. If someone wants to use sythesized instruments, that's fine, sometimes that's what sounds best on a particular song, or that's the best they can afford, or whatever. I just meant that I personally prefer real. And I react negatively when someone tries to tell me that there is no difference...that seems insulting to drummers everywhere. To me. Not that anyone here said that, but people have said that to me before. In my opinion, music is a human endeavor, and the more substitutions put in for the human elements, the more the music loses. Just my opinion. --Jean

It's my belief that much in the same way that people's taste buds have grown accustomed to thinking that processed food is how food is suppose to taste, people's ears are now accustomed to thinking that mechanical sounding rhythm sections are somehow superior to the real thing.

It isn't THAT hard to record real drums in a home recording/demo situation given that almost any home recordist has at their disposal similar equipment (if not better) to what George Martin and Ringo had to work with throughout most of the Beatles' career.

I personally think artists need to be brave enough to put the real thing out there.
Will everyone like it? No. But I can speak from personal experience that those who do like it will usually like it a lot!

[This message has been edited by Kester (edited 03-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Kester (edited 03-16-2005).]

Well, Kester..

I live in a second story apartment.

My "studio" is the second bedroom....
I share the space with a bunch of my wifes books, boxes of Christmas decorations and the cats litter box.

I have a couple of mics and virtually no outboard gear...

I'm anxious to hear your plan to have me record the "real thing" given my space and budget !

Waiting fervently

Bob Young

I'd rather have real drums on my recordings, demo and other wise, just like I'd prefer to have them when performing.

Not always practical or available. We always program our drums, percussion, synths, strings, whatever.

Drum loops were being used on recordings long before everyone and his grandmother had a triton and protools in his bedroom studio.

I've also wasted a lot of money in the studio with drummers who were OK on stage but couldn't play with a click to save their life. On the other hand, I have a rolodex full of phone numbers for players who support top local and touring acts. Guess what? I can't afford any of them. Someday I may today I can't.

We do what we do out of neccesity.

So, we program as much as we can and play live instruments over the top. We do it whether recording or performing.

We have the choice of programming as much as we can, or doing nothing.

Doing nothing is not an option.

I want to clarify what I mean by programming on a workstation. We're not pushing dots around on a cumputer screen. We press record on a workstation and play the parts in real time. Nothing comes off a machine that we can't play live, but for the fact that there are only two of us and two guys can't play a half dozen instruments at once.

[This message has been edited by cozmicslop (edited 03-16-2005).]

I agree with Bob on trying to record drums in the average home or apartment..

Three to five mics, outboard gear, the proper sized room, room treatments, bass traps, baffles...The hours it sometimes takes to get good sounds.

or,

Take the $600 - $800 bucks a day to hire a drummer, plus the $800 - $1200 a day for a good studio plus engineer...

I'd rather spend that money on gear (amps, synths, mics, preamps, compressors, even software) to make dozens of demos, than spend it on one.

I was making a GENERAL statement about the increased possibilties of being able to record live drums at home, thanks to improvements in technology. Those options have become a reality that could not have been imagined even a decade ago by most home recordists.

I'm fully aware that not everyone can record live drums wherever they happen to live for that same reason guitarists might have to record direct as opposed to micing a Marshall stack.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't have to pay a drummer, since I am a drummer. And I also consider myself very lucky to have the capacity to mic a drum kit with up to 8 mics simultaneously.

When I first started with a 4 track porta studio, I would never have dreamed that would be possible. And all in the comfort of my own home!

I agree that real instruments are the best option. I also agree that it's impractical for many home recordists (due to cost, space, etc.) to use MIDI or drum machines. I find it inexcusable, however, for an artist recording on a label to go for such shortcuts, however. They may like the beat/sound but I don't! [Then again, sometimes real instruments can sound lousy depending on how they're tuned/played. I find a lot of 80's drumming to be despicable.]

Nothing beats the sound of real drums. That's why I only use the best loops and samples.

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

One thing that works nicely sometime is to overdub some acoustic drums/hand drums/percussion and add them to the mix. I've done this for a few friends and the results have been very good. This lets the original tracks be recorded with the ease of an electronic drumtrack and then adds a bit of a real feel/live sound to the song. I've also heard others suggest that real cymbals be used in place of electronic ones, but I've never tried that myself. Just some ideas I thought I'd share.
btw,pjschindel, I agree that the 80's were a real low point for drum sounds. That was a time when technology definitely took precedent over good taste.