JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Guitars and Guitarist Forum Was Given a Fender 12!

My son-in-law gave me his 10 year old Fender F-310 12 string a few weeks ago! It goes nicely with my Yamaha F-310 6 banger.

I lowered the bridge a hair, and put on Martin's SP "extra light" strings! Same with the 6 string, but with "light" strings. (Lowered that bridge more, and wish I did the same amount to the 12. (Next string change). How often should that be too, for just casual use at home, then "maybe some", but nothing now, at home studio use?

My fingers now have a double groove to them! Love the sound and options it gives me. I'm a piano/keyboard player mainly, but am loving to play the guitars more and more. I have used the Yamaha in all the songs we have for which there is an acoustic used, and now want to go back to a few songs where the 12 string would sound better, and right for the parts. If I do, that means even more mixing! 139th on that one,,,,168 for that one,,,!
When do you stop?! Darn 12 srting!

NO, I love it! Playing the newer McCartney songs recently, (from Driving Rain). "Magic" sounds great with the 12!

John

D'you tune that 12-string all the way up to standard tuning, or do you keep it tuned 2 notches low and use a capo?
I have an old Epiphone 12 that I ruined by keeping it tuned up to concert pitch; 'course it was kind of an inexpensive guitar.


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Later,

Pat

I never thought about that! (Just assumed it would be OK). Can the extra strings, (with the obvious added tension), harm this model as well? It's 10 years old, and has not been in pitch until I got it and restored it.
I keep it in standard pitch religiously! But will adapt if safer.

Thanks!

John

[This message has been edited by dhsongs (edited 07-29-2002).]

Well, I've heard that keeping an acoustic 12-string tuned to DGCFAD (or I guess that's dD gG cC fF AA DD , isn't it? ) keeps it from being overstressed. I've also heard people say, though, that with a high-quality guitar it doesn't matter, that you can tune 'em right up. I'd suggest taking the Fender to a good acoustic guitar repairman and ask what they think. I don't think tuning it "low" will hurt, though.


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Later,

Pat

the only guitar manufacturer that I know of that even says it's cool to tune their acoustic 12 string to concert pitch is Taylor.

But the rule of thumb for any other kind is to tune it down a step (D) and capo up if needed. As most guitars aren't built well enough to take the stress.

Jody

Makes sense to tune low and capo up. I have an Ovation 12 string that I picked up dirt cheap in a pawn shop, exactly because string tension caused a distortion in the top.

It still sounds all right, but it is certainly not top notch.

Prevention is still the best strategy!

Pat, Jody, John: THANK YOU! I will now march downstairs where that guitar is reating against my old piano, and tune it a whole tone down, to D. ,,,Now where's that capo I had?

You guys will most likely cause this 12 pack guitar to last longer and sound better through the years! AGAIN,,,,,THANK YOU! AND THANKS TO BRIAN TOO, FOR HAVING THIS FORUM FOR ME TO FIND OUT ABOUT THIS.

Funny, I tune pianos professionally, (and should have known about all this), but never heard of this technique being done to guitars for safety measures, just for tuning them down, or different; like making the open strings be an E chord, for example.

Did I say THANKS?!!!!

I'm going, I'm going!,,,, D huh? OK! Might even sound fuller when playing without the capo!

John

Ok, did it, but will try it back up to a half step flat of standard pitch, (Eb), as it doesn't sound good throughout the dofferent chord positions, and a general blah sound, with the scaling, (tension), being that low, (whole tone down).

BIG Question then: Will that half step be enough to ward off future damage? Please tell me yes! But the truth is what's really needed. Keep in mind, I have "extra light" gauge strings, so the scaling wouldn't be a high at any pitch, as thicker strings.

Thanks
John

[This message has been edited by dhsongs (edited 07-29-2002).]

Hi John (and Buddy too )
This is all good advise concerning 12 strings.......The only make I know of that you can confidently keep tuned up is the Richenbacher models...something to do with the design of the truss rod.....keeping your guit in D will extend the life of your guitar tremendously....I also use the lightest gauge strings that I can find for my Epiphone as you do...you can mix and match gauges if you feel a particular string is "tinny" sounding....could get expensive though...ya know? ......My Epi is 30 years old and still plays nice.....ya just gotta be aware....I have tuned it up on occasion to record.....did not seem to hurt it none....back to D though before it goes into the case....always...

Take good care my friend,
Joe (aka joro )

Hey Joe! Thanks for giving your thoughts on this! So, it does appear I will tune it to D, and not Eb as I hoped. Oh well, as you say, it will last longer, and was a gift from my son-in-law, and he might want it back for the heck of it sometime,,,,,so I better do what is best. D it is then..Thanks!

You take good care too Joe! Always have been great to me and Buddy. I'll pass along your Hi to him.

John

John,
You've allready got good advice- tune down and watch your string guages. I can add this info- a bit more specific...

I own a 70's era Ricky 12. It has a double trussrod, which is one long piece of metal bent in a U shape- there's 2 nuts to adjust the tension.

The threaded part of the rod got tweaked and you can't adjust it because you can't get a wrench on the nut. It might have happened because I used too heavy a guage set of strings. The Ernie ball '12 string light' set has a .009 on top and .046 for the fat E- I think that's the set that tweaked it. The Kaman 'Electric Light 12' set had a .041 for the fat E... they are hard to find- especially here, I have to buy single strings to make a set.

I keep it in standard pitch. I didn't fix the trussrod because it's hard to find anyone- anywhere- who's willing to do it- even the factory. With light strings, and I lowered the bridge, it plays fine, tho Rickys have a very narrow neck, and if you capo up, it feels like a mandolin.

I love the sound of an electric 12, you immediately get the vibe of all those great Byrds and Beatles tunes...

Good luck with your music... MIke

Thanks Mike!

Did you say Beatles! LOL Love their music, and Martin's work! So many things about them, from the millions of instruments they used through the years, to the songwriting mastery.

Yes,,,,the Ricks have that great rich sound unique sound! My partner's son has a six string Rick! It's the 360, or maybe even the 620, or whatever that model is. (either 3 or 6 something!),,,,,Memory,,, you know.

Thanks again for the great info!

John
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/New_Yesterdays/

Any quality 12-string (Taylor, Guild, Gibson, Martin, Larrivee, etc.) can be tuned to concert (E) if you use light-12 sets...Many of the better imports (Yamaha, Alvarez, etc...even Takamines, although I would waste my $$$ on a Tak) will be fine, as well...modern 12-strings (made from 1980 on) are built to be tuned to "E"...older 12s might need to be watched, though.

If you like to tune lower, your guitar will sound MUCH better with heavier strings.

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Thought for the day: To be loved deeply gives one strength; to love another deeply gives one courage - Lao Tzu

Ahh, the twelve string tuning question.

First, any stress on the bridge is going to deform the top. Tuning a step down will just take it longer. It will not prevent the top from bellying.

Here is what I do with my old 12.

I installed a bridge doctor right off the bat. Not a plug here, but it did flatten the top and I think there is a slight improvement in tone due to the top correction. There is definitely an improvement in action. Hey for $30, you can't go wrong on an old 12.

I tune to concert pitch and leave it that way, unless I'm not going to play it for a week or two. Then I tune it way down, still leaving tension in the strings, but way down.

my 2 cents.

Nick